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#21 Alder Logs

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 12:58 AM

I am sure glad this country doesn't interfere with anyone else's democratic processes. 


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#22 Spooner

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 08:32 AM

I am sure glad this country doesn't interfere with anyone else's democratic processes. 

 

Yeah, that is what we have Russia for.


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#23 Spooner

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 09:27 AM

 

Yeah crazy.

Some folks even believe the earth is flat, and Russia didn't muck up our election.

And here I thought it was just the fact that the two worst candidates in the history of the country ran against each other. I've been waiting for a single shred of evidence but, are you saying Russia hacked those two into the election? 

 

 

I am saying that Russia effectively promoted dishonest stories to divert the attention of our media away from the real problems fucking up America, and the corruption that is at the core of a con man's existence.

 

These may not have been the two candidates that you liked best, but they did provide an opportunity to choose honestly.  We were not allowed to do so because the news covered breaking stories that ultimately turned out to be inaccurate.  Because this propaganda manipulation worked to the benefit of Trump, the current administration will do nothing to stop it from continuing in the future.  The degradation of an informed electorate degrades the entire democratic process.  Democracy requires informed voters.  The Russians, and now our president, promotes lies and obscures the truth resulting in a degraded democracy.  Within the first year,Trump told 2,000 lies (about 6 a day).  These are demonstrably false statements, such as the size of his inaugural crowd and his margin of his victory,  This exceeds the lies of other presidents, both Democratic and Republican, by a full order of magnitude.

 

The biggest lie of all is that the Russians did not interfere with the 2016 election.  I sincerely hope that you can at least see that much through the mountain of lies promoted by our president.  It is impossible to combat an enemy if you are unaware of their existence.


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#24 Myc

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 09:38 AM

I'm getting ready to start my own Youtube channel where I will shamelessly attempt to provoke such behavior - and whatever "one-up-manship"  may occur as a counterpoint to said behavior. 

I would never see this stuff if it weren't posted here and boy, would I be missing out. 

 

The Darwin Channel

The aim is to get folks to off themselves for the most frivolous infraction (bad grades, social slights, insults, etc.)

The payoff for a successful suicide is an award in the form of a huge blue ribbon displayed at the beginning and end of your video submission if it wins !!!

 

If at first you don't succeed.........

Try, try again. 

 

"Vicariously, I live........"



#25 illigitimateJester

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 09:41 AM

How did this turn into a nothing burger about russia? FISA.....there, I said it.....


Edited by illigitimateJester, 10 February 2018 - 09:42 AM.

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#26 Spooner

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 09:58 AM

How did this turn into a nothing burger about russia? FISA.....there, I said it.....

 

The fact that you consider manipulation of Truth to be nothing, is evidence of the effectiveness and danger of propaganda, in a free and open society.

 

...or perhaps the informed electorate of a democracy is simply not appealing in this situation


Edited by Spooner, 10 February 2018 - 10:17 AM.


#27 Mrs.Hippie3

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 10:04 AM

Hold on I gotta go make me another foil hat.. Lol

#28 Alder Logs

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 11:24 AM

Sorry for the thread hijack, and I tried to ignore this when it came by:

 

 

Yeah crazy.

Some folks even believe the earth is flat, and Russia didn't muck up our election.

 

 

 

I'm not drinking the Russia did it Cool-Aid no matter how many MSM channels have fountains of the shit flowing 24/7, not until there is some trustworthy evidence beyond the word of many stripes of professional liars.   Here one of the best explanations of the 2016 phenomenon I have yet to see:

 

[Direct Link]


Edited by Alder Logs, 10 February 2018 - 11:28 AM.


#29 Spooner

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 12:47 PM

The alternative is that actions by Russian cyber operatives had absolutely no effect on the election. 

The greatest trick the devil pulls is getting people to believe he does not exist.

Muddying the waters, is effective but in my opinion not beneficial.

Finger prints on a murder weapon may not prove who the killer was.

All the same, it implies an unwholesome connection.

At 47:30 your guy identifies the goal of this disinformation.

 

My interest in politics is marginal, but my aversion to deception is substantial.

The way this election was manipulated bothers me much more that the election of any one ill informed candidate.

It seems Putin put his thumb on the scales, even if you believe he was 100% ineffective.



#30 August West

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 02:44 PM

The alternative is that actions by Russian cyber operatives had absolutely no effect on the election. 

The greatest trick the devil pulls is getting people to believe he does not exist.

Muddying the waters, is effective but in my opinion not beneficial.

Finger prints on a murder weapon may not prove who the killer was.

All the same, it implies an unwholesome connection.

At 47:30 your guy identifies the goal of this disinformation.

 

My interest in politics is marginal, but my aversion to deception is substantial.

The way this election was manipulated bothers me much more that the election of any one ill informed candidate.

It seems Putin put his thumb on the scales, even if you believe he was 100% ineffective.

That's actually not necessarily the only alternative. It can be both at the same time. Russia had some hand in the U.S. elections? Welcome to geopolitics. The irony of you posting your concerns while sitting in the nation at the epicenter of fucking with foreign nations' affairs is not lost on me. It's interesting to note however, that you, like all others thus far, have presented zero evidence, as in nothing whatsoever as to the meaning of "hacking", "meddling", "cyber operatives" or any other talking point presented by the DNC and their mouth pieces. 

 

Does Donald Trump have ties to Russians? It sure looks like it. No bank would loan his bankrupt ass a dime so he most likely turned to Russian organized crime for the capital he needed. Does any of that indicate ties to Moscow? Let's see it. Do you have anything other than declarations, platitudes or talking points as to how Russia substantially affected the election? Is it simply because it is unbelievable that Trump defeated the most cynical establishment politician to ever be offered up for the Presidency? Who, btw, is from one of the most corrupt political families in the history of the United States. 


Edited by August West, 10 February 2018 - 02:45 PM.


#31 Spooner

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 06:34 PM

According to CROWDSTRIKE, (a cyber-security firm) involvement by two different Russian groups is clear ...

 

"Their tradecraft is superb, operational security second to none and the extensive usage of ‘living-off-the-land’ techniques enables them to easily bypass many security solutions they encounter. In particular, we identified advanced methods consistent with nation-state level capabilities including deliberate targeting and ‘access management’ tradecraft – both groups were constantly going back into the environment to change out their implants, modify persistent methods, move to new Command & Control channels and perform other tasks to try to stay ahead of being detected. Both adversaries engage in extensive political and economic espionage for the benefit of the government of the Russian Federation and are believed to be closely linked to the Russian government’s powerful and highly capable intelligence services.

 

COZY BEAR (also referred to in some industry reports as CozyDuke or APT 29) is the adversary group that last year successfully infiltrated the unclassified networks of the White House, State Department, and US Joint Chiefs of Staff. In addition to the US government, they have targeted organizations across the Defense, Energy, Extractive, Financial, Insurance, Legal, Manufacturing Media, Think Tanks, Pharmaceutical, Research and Technology industries, along with Universities. Victims have also been observed in Western Europe, Brazil, China, Japan, Mexico, New Zealand, South Korea, Turkey and Central Asian countries. COZY BEAR’s preferred intrusion method is a broadly targeted spearphish campaign that typically includes web links to a malicious dropper. Once executed on the machine, the code will deliver one of a number of sophisticated Remote Access Tools (RATs), including AdobeARM, ATI-Agent, and MiniDionis. On many occasions, both the dropper and the payload will contain a range of techniques to ensure the sample is not being analyzed on a virtual machine, using a debugger, or located within a sandbox. They have extensive checks for the various security software that is installed on the system and their specific configurations. When specific versions are discovered that may cause issues for the RAT, it promptly exits. These actions demonstrate a well-resourced adversary with a thorough implant-testing regime that is highly attuned to slight configuration issues that may result in their detection, and which would cause them to deploy a different tool instead. The implants are highly configurable via encrypted configuration files, which allow the adversary to customize various components, including C2 servers, the list of initial tasks to carry out, persistence mechanisms, encryption keys and others. An HTTP protocol with encrypted payload is used for the Command & Control communication."

 

Recommend reading the entire article as it lays out evidence of intrusion.  

https://www.crowdstr...onal-committee/

 

And yes, I appreciate the irony of complaining about foreign intrusions from the only country to use atomic weapons in war, and the same country that has overthrown other governments over the price of Bananas.  None of which justifies being complacent in defending our own election process.



#32 August West

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 08:30 PM

Ah yes, the infamous Crowdstrike report. You are aware of the problems raised by the private firm hired by the DNC in order to find collusion...whatever that it?

Here are a couple of articles detailing some of the issues with this company and it's role:


https://www.zerohedg...llionaire-and-g

https://medium.com/t...bi-c6f884c34189

The interesting thing about this whole Cold War Redux is that I have never seen one person, concerned with election fraud, bring up Greg Palast's work on the very real fraud that occurred under the GOP (http://www.gregpalas...n-stolen-heres/).

I'm going to take the liberty of reposting a comment from one of my online friends that very succinctly sums up my position re: the Russian issue:


There are several serious problems with the "Russiagate" narrative, but they can be distilled into one succinct phrase: lack of evidence. The DNC hack may well have been an internal leak, as former NSA official Bill Binney has stated from hist technical assessment of the available information (lest we forget that the DNC declined to have the FBI look at their servers). The "Steele Dossier" is unsubstantiated and linked to a Democratic oppo-research firm (While it would be unsurprising that Trump has blackmail-worthy skeletons in his closet, this bit doesn't rise to the level of evidence, and its source is less than trustworthy). The supposed influence campaign sponsored by Russia is also light on evidence when one looks into the details, particularly when one compares the paltry sums talked about purchased in FB advertising in comparison to the large amounts spent by domestic campaigns (Trump/Mercer's Cambridge Analytica and the Clinton campaign for instance). The only real evidence linking Trump to Russia involves links to shady Russian businesses and they themselves don't constitute some form of control or influence by Russia. It should also be noted that Trump has links to many shady business dealings, including American organized crime, and no coherent narrative has emerged as to how these long-standing Russian business ties would serve to make Trump a Manchurian candidate. His emissaries' meetings with Russian officials (which are common among presidents elect) were in lobbying on behalf of Israel, not colluding with Russia. There is foreign influence in US elections but the lion's share comes from "friendly" countries like Saudi Arabia and Israel (and lets not forget domestic intelligence agencies).

Most importantly though (and completely ignored by the MSM) is the fact that there was election fraud and voter suppression committed in the 2016 election: by domestic political parties. Indeed the formate of the US electoral system, that of decentralized state and county level systems, makes election hacking by outside agents much more difficult while making it less daunting to domestic political machines. In particular, the GOP's program of voter suppression through the so-called "interstate crosscheck" program may well have delivered the presidency to Trump, as have previously successful GOP suppression campaigns (not to mention Clinton's incompetent campaign and rigging of the Democratic primary). The "Russiagate" narrative dovetails nicely with the new cold war posture of Washington neocons and Democrats' desires to avoid accountability in their gross incompetence/craven corruption, but it fails to withstand skeptical scrutiny, the many pronouncements of corporate media aside.

The tragedy is that this preoccupation with what seems to me to be a contrived and fictive narrative has shoehorned any opposition to Trump into a specious canard. A horrifically incompetent and moronic political figure that could have been a galvanizing force for meaningful opposition has instead become a martyr to the regressive right in his "brave stand against Obama's deep state." The left, misinformed and splintered can't find a cohesive narrative to push back against the dismantling of the administrative state and the continuance of American empire, and the right is usingTrump's disruptive presence to fulfill their destructive wishlist.



#33 CatsAndBats

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 09:49 PM

post-147940-0-11222500-1518317156.jpg

 

post-147940-0-45645700-1518317155.gif

 

post-147940-0-24738100-1518317153.jpg

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 uh cause they're delicious

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#34 August West

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 10:40 PM

Sorry the Tidepod thread got hijacked. Clearly, it was the Russians meddling with our thread.
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#35 coorsmikey

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 10:59 PM

Sorry the Tidepod thread got hijacked. Clearly, it was the Russians meddling with our thread.

Brother, have you ever considered doing Podcasts or having your own YouTube channel? If so I would definitely subscribe. I could picture something like The Joe Rogan Experience with you interviewing and just talking to different people for each one. Probably sounds like I’m being sarcastic, but i’m serious and not messing around. The stuff you talk about and how you throw out your ideas and opinion just makes one think. Anyway it’s a thought or maybe you already have something going on, if you do send me a link?
Ok I don’t know how a thread about eating tide pods could really be highjacked, but sorry anyway Mah. We can go back to talking pods now.

Edited by coorsmikey, 10 February 2018 - 11:00 PM.

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#36 Alder Logs

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 11:10 PM

It's two, two, two threads in one!

 

As William Binney, ex-NSA whistleblower (one of few that Obama didn't manage to stick with a prison sentence), has revealed, the there is in evidence, download speeds at which the files were transfered that rule out a hack, but instead show that the transfer happened by way of a portable storage device like a USB drive.   Another whistleblower, Craig Murray, ex-British Ambassador to Uzbekistan, claims that a disillusioned DNC insider handed such a device to him at a political function and it was he who handed the device to Wikileaks.   This is old news that MSDNC isn't telling us, though it has been in the record.

 

 

But wouldn't it be crazy to have this Russia, Russia, Russia shit take us all the way to WWIII?   Then we'll wish we'd not voted for Jill Stein.

 

 

Anyway, if there were evidence of a hack, these guys could have shown it to us long ago.

 

gallery_131808_1351_59908.jpg

 

 

They have nothing to fear because they can hide what they want to hide.

 

And we thought the country was divided before this Russiagate shit!


Edited by Alder Logs, 10 February 2018 - 11:36 PM.

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#37 Spooner

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Posted 10 February 2018 - 11:18 PM

It is interesting that your sources provide zero evidence, that the Crowdstrike information was inaccurate, instead relying on the disinformation fallback position of obfuscation.  Crowdstrike's reputation is strong enough that the FBI goes to them for assistance on cyber matters, but in an odd reversal, those links assert the FBI contract makes the cyber report unreliable.

 

This discussion highlights the perils of disinformation, which was the goal of the Russian efforts.  Trump as president was just a by product, like collateral damage.  The fundamental point was to delegitimize our democratic process, and that goal has been achieved.  I have been a fan of our democratic process, but perhaps a new era is dawning.

 

Let us hope that eating soap, falsifying information, and refusing to investigate leads to a better future for all.



#38 August West

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 12:05 AM

 

Sorry the Tidepod thread got hijacked. Clearly, it was the Russians meddling with our thread.

Brother, have you ever considered doing Podcasts or having your own YouTube channel? If so I would definitely subscribe. I could picture something like The Joe Rogan Experience with you interviewing and just talking to different people for each one. Probably sounds like I’m being sarcastic, but i’m serious and not messing around. The stuff you talk about and how you throw out your ideas and opinion just makes one think. Anyway it’s a thought or maybe you already have something going on, if you do send me a link?
Ok I don’t know how a thread about eating tide pods could really be highjacked, but sorry anyway Mah. We can go back to talking pods now.

 

How do you know I'm not Rogan ;)

 

It is interesting that your sources provide zero evidence, that the Crowdstrike information was inaccurate, instead relying on the disinformation fallback position of obfuscation.  Crowdstrike's reputation is strong enough that the FBI goes to them for assistance on cyber matters, but in an odd reversal, those links assert the FBI contract makes the cyber report unreliable.

 

This discussion highlights the perils of disinformation, which was the goal of the Russian efforts.  Trump as president was just a by product, like collateral damage.  The fundamental point was to delegitimize our democratic process, and that goal has been achieved.  I have been a fan of our democratic process, but perhaps a new era is dawning.

 

Let us hope that eating soap, falsifying information, and refusing to investigate leads to a better future for all.

The Crowdstrike information wasn't necessarily inaccurate. It also doesn't necessarily mean anything. Imo, you would be unwise to dismiss the importance of who is delivering information. One can ascertain much by understanding who is delivering information. Of course you're familiar with the concept of cui bono? That said, I'm not the one surprised by foreign actors attempting to play a role in elections. I've studied geopolitics for too long. The fact is, the Crowdstrike information isn't substantial with regards to proving any of that moved the election in one direction or another. Occam's razor (which is not necessarily my fall back position) would say that the Democrats were too stupid and/or out of touch to understand they were running the most toxic candidate in the history of the Republic and it got shoved in their ignorant faces. It wasn't the Russians who closed the Democratic party off to all other candidates.

 

As I pointed out, your vaunted democratic process was likely far more compromised by the GOP's interstate crosscheck program. Seriously, check out the work done by Greg Palast. It's very compelling. As Alder pointed out (and I mentioned previously), Binney's response to the Russian hacking claim is also interesting. In actual fact though, the process wasn't compromised, that is the process. An in-depth study of democracy may reveal it as far less sacred as it's loudest proponents would suggest. As far as "delegitimized". You do remember the 2000 and 2004 elections? It doesn't take a foreign actor to delegitimize U.S. Presidential selections. We're starting to have to go back pretty far to find this golden age of the U.S. democratic process, here. 

 

Btw, disinformation has always been rampant. We're just having to deal with it to a much more constant degree.

 

 

 

“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” ― H.L Mencken

 



#39 coorsmikey

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 12:21 AM

How do you know I'm not Rogan ;)

Because the username August West suggests enlightenment that Rogan hasn’t acquire (yet) notice that I did ask for a link if you had something of the sort. I was careful to not exclude you from something of such. Lol I wouldn’t be surprised if your anonymity here is the same personality that is well known. If not, consider it. I mean look how mainstream “The Late Shows” are. You could totally blow what I rarely ever watch on TV out of the water.

Edited by coorsmikey, 11 February 2018 - 12:59 AM.

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#40 Spooner

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Posted 11 February 2018 - 03:59 AM

Cui bono indeed!

Glad you finally see the light, don't get run over by the train barreling through the tunnel.






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