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#41 425nm

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 10:28 PM

 

The ladybird larvae are voracious little buggers and adorable. The trouble is convincing the adults to lay eggs before they fly off and the sugar trick can work. However the various mites can't fly off. Neoseiulus fallacis is native to North America and in some parts can even over winter. Where as Phytoseiulus persimilis prefers warm and humid (do great in growrooms) and don't deal with cold well.

Thus far I've simply been spraying with a mix of insectacidal soap (sold as insectacidal, dish soap can work but isn't as reliable), isopropanol, and been oil. Going to do a two days on and two days off spraying for a week or two.

exactly.

 

one buddy of mine liked to use soy based criscoe as horticuylturaL oil, with coco wet as wetting agent, was told only thing he said could be uused up till day of harvest. no experince at useing this myself, so rember there is a insecticidal product called soyonara , so my assumption is the criscoe and coco wet is diy version of soyonara

 

Opps, sorry Phung forgot to check back here. Using crisco is an interesting idea. I've been pondering just using canola oil since its so cheap. I'm sure either would work (all they need to do is suffocate the critters by blocking either spiracles). Coco-wet sounds potentially useful if I could get my hands on some of it.
Thus far I've just been using insecticidal soap with some neem oil thrown in. I got myself a bigger sprayer:
 

IMG 20180813 182415

Which has made the spraying less of a task but goodness making sure I hit the underside of every leaf is still tedious.

Also took a few not great photos down my magnifier loupe of the two spot spider mites in question:
 

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The lighting isn't great but you can see the eggs
 

IMG 20180813 182628

Despite the spraying some of the plants are exhibiting signs of damage. Leaf spotting, and some tip crisping on young shoots :/ Day/night is approaching 12/12 so hopefully they start to bud out soon.



#42 425nm

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Posted 16 August 2018 - 06:05 PM

The grow continues! and we are still at 14 hours of daylight and the internet tells me we won't be down to 13.5hrs until the end of the month but I am damn we ready to convince the plants to start flowering. Nighttime temps are currently around 13C at the moment and by the time we get into September they'll be around 10C. Not sure how cool Cannabis can deal with for nighttime but I imagine 10C is probably pretty close to the lowest. So on wards with the flowering nutrients!
I am giving this as liquid feed to the roots, once a week as per the bottles dilution instructions:
 

IMG 20180816 141446

Plus once a week a kelp fertilizer also to the roots.

I went by the cities only hydroponics store the other day to see what they had. I was hoping they might have the fox farms open sesame that Bottlebomber suggested to me but alas they did not. Instead I got a variety of things (some of which I am a little skeptical of).

 

IMG 20180816 141313

 

To help out with flowering I got some of this for top dressing:
 

IMG 20180816 142017

 

Nothing magical here, just scattering a handful on top of the tops weekly.

They fellow (who didn't seem as knowledgeable as I was hoping for but on the other hand didn't pretend to know more than he did. Always nice to hear a sales person admit that they don't really know for sure how a product works) at the hydroponics shop recommended this:
 

IMG 20180816 142003
 

This stuff is interesting. While rootzone microbes are definitely a major and important thing in ecology I do wonder how effective applying a root drench of them in artifical circumstances would be. This definitely warrants some further research (I may even try growing out some of the bacteria in culture assuming they're relatively safe to do so at home). So I purchased this more as a curiosity than out of any sort of conviction that it will help (which isn't to say that it won't. Just that "microbiome" has been hijacked by sales hype like crazy in the last few years. Totally legit area of Science but very complicated to study and all results should be treated with some caution).

I also got some of this:

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(apologies for the fuzziness of the last photo)

The sales guy claims its a crustacean meal tea which can be used to kill soft bodied instects. However if you look at the label there's nothing on there that says that. Now I have heard of using silica/silicon (both not either and they probably act differently) as a spray for pest management however exactly what its doing is a bit fuzzy. I've heard that silica acts as a dessicant (dries insects out) and to some degree might cause mechanical damage to the insect. This is why diatomaceous earth works as a contact insecticide. This is also why its NOT SAFE for you to breath. It is not. Full stop. Don't listen to those damn hippies that will tell you its safe because its natural. For the love of God/Gods/Nature/Whatever wear a respirator and eye protection. Yes its not a chemical insecticide but it will do some serious business to your lungs and mucous membranes. Also don't scatter it around your house to deal with infestations its a hazard to pests and you since its just loose waiting for you to disturb it.

 

I've also heard that silicon (different chemical) sprays gets absorbed by the plant to help with generating defensive compounds. I dunno how well developed the Science is on that. I am not a botanist by any stretch of the imagination.

ANYWAY back to this Jake's stuff. There's nothing to suggest that there is ground up crustaceans in it anyway. It just seems to be a foliar spray with an array of things in it.

Got some kelp in it,

Vegetable protein hydrosolate, now this one is interesting. All those fancy words more or less just mean they took a bunch of plant proteins and broke them down into smaller bits. Some google reveals that this as a spray or root soak can actually act as a biostimulant but why exactly isn't clear. Once again there is speculation that it might be microbiome related. Maybe you're feeding the critters that live on/in/association with your plants.

A variety of mineral salts that are good for plants (potassium sulfate, magnesium oxide, etc),

Some ethanol (that will kill soft bodied insects),

Humic acids (good for plants),

Sulphur dioxide (can inhibit fungal spore  germination),

Some soapy business (the various fats) as a surfactant (helps everything stick to the leaves).

So aside from the alcohol (which might actually be acting as a solvent for one of the components) and the sulfur compounds in this stuff I can't see what would be acting as an insecticide in it. To be fair the bottle doesn't advertise itself as one it was the hydroponics guy that suggested that it would act as one. The bottle does claim that it "Builds plants immune system to naturally defend itself against airbourne spores and other insects & pests" which miiiight be true. However plants immune systems are not directly analogous to human immune systems (which whole other aside, all this shit that supposedly "boosts your immune system" is probably also a bunch of snake oil or at the very least is commuting the sin of an incredibly reductive metaphor. An over active immune system is just as bad as an under active one) so I'm not sure how accurate that claim is (again not a botanist; I'd love for someone who is to weigh in. I know we've got some smart folks on here).

Moving along, my war against the spider mites continues! I bought more standard insecticidal soap. Oddly the 'ponics store only carried the stuff with pyrethrins which no doubt work and have a short half life but I'd just rather not fuck with them. Its enough of a task to keep the regular soap out of my eyes and lungs (nontoxic but still not great for your eyes/lungs) nevermind having to fucking glove and coat up to apply actual pesticides. I already spooked my landlord by wandering around with a face shield, respirator, and sprayer (over kill but I have the PPE for power tool purposes already). Plus spider mites are goddamn fantastic at evolving resistance to things.

Despite my efforts folliage damage from the mites is occurring

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Some leaf spotting, crispy tips, and chlorosis where the mites have been feeding. Its not the end of the world just not very pretty to look at. I seem to be keeping the mite numbers low enough to prevent any substantial damage. Some good detailed info on two spot spider mite can be found here. Wikipedia also have this dope ass photo of a colony all congregating in one spot. In situations like this where there are massive amounts of them they will congregate like that in order to balloon (more or less what it soundslike. Small "balloon" of silk & mites gets picked up by the wind and blown away) away from the over crowded area to new plants. I've been trying to figure out at what temperature they'll be less of an issue. Once it gets cool enough they'll slow way down and go into diapause. That's right! The bastards can over winter! Potentially surviving down to -15 to -20C. However my patience is running low regarding tracking down sources (most of the stuff coming up is looking at temperature effects on predators of spider mites) and this post has ended up being way longer than I thought it would be.

In closing, check out my sole and tiny watermelon (they too have been getting hammered by the mites):
 

IMG 20180816 141656

 



#43 425nm

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Posted 22 August 2018 - 09:27 PM

Well it would seem forgetting the male plant in the basement for two and a half weeks (had to hide it there when one of the roommates parents came to visit) has forced it into flowering:
 

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A little worse for the wear but all I need him for is his pollen :angry:

As for all the other plants. No obvious sign of them moving into flowering just yet. At least not to my untrained eye. Hopefully they get going soon. Its getting cool at night.

Other than Cannabis I grew some cool beans:
 

IMG 20180820 212031


#44 425nm

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Posted 29 August 2018 - 03:54 PM

Alrighty, I was forced to throw some wood mulch (sadly all I had is that tacky Scotts sierra red) on top of the pots today. This is the third time I've come out to water and the plants have been droopy (especially odd today given how cloudy it is). Probably something I should have done quite some time ago but I am my own worst enemy.
 

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As a result of procrastination there are ever more crispy leaf tips
 

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On a more positive note its looking like we're moving towards flowering? I think? Either its a much slower/subtle shift than I was expecting or the plants haven't actually shifted to flowering yet and I'm just seeing things.

 

IMG 20180829 125745

We are currently at 13.5 hours daylight & 10.5 hours nighttime. Weather is starting to vacillate between sunny and overcast with temps ranging from 17-19C day and 11-12C at night. Slightly concerned that if the weather keeps edging towards crappy we might not make it across the finish line.
Still giving flowering ferts once a week as root soak and foliar feed.


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#45 PJammer24

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Posted 29 August 2018 - 06:43 PM

I would have transplanted those into bigger pots... I think mine would be getting root bound by the size of those pots...

 

I don't know that I would bother now, transplanting inevitably shocks the plant and requires a little recovery time but you might want to consider it. 

 

I would at least consider it for my next attempts.... Healthy root system = healthy plant and the more room the roots have to spread out the more the plant will thrive. It also allows for more nutrients available without having to feed them directly.

 

On a different note, I like to look at it like I am feeding the soil and not the plant... The healthier and more active the soil the healthier the plant... 


Edited by PJammer24, 29 August 2018 - 08:52 PM.

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#46 Pan1

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Posted 29 August 2018 - 08:35 PM

those pots arent near big enough, from the reading your thread there in two gallon pots, my foot tall indoor plants are in two gallon pots and in the next week they will be moved into 5 or 6 gallon pots, that is min of what you should be using for outdoor plants. if im wrong correct me its hard to tell plant and pot size from a pic.

 

dont know where you are in the great white north its a big country with lots of diferent weather but i would be expecting a frost hard enough to kill cannabis plants as soon as the next 7 to 10 days where i am. yours dont look far enough along to finish at least in my neck of the woods... but covering them in bed sheets if there calling for frost will by you some time.

 

dont know why your plants arent finishing up, i have a couple of blueberry plants they should finish up in most of canada using the bed sheet method, not real sure why yours are not, not familiar  with what there crossed with. out door plants in canada should show signs of flowering a couple of weeks after the solstice.

 

just my advice, more of a hydroponic than outdoor, but am now doing indoor organic, and not really sure in canada where you are its a big county and i havent explored all of it yet.



#47 425nm

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Posted 29 August 2018 - 10:29 PM

They're actually in 7 gallon pots. They were at one point in 2 gallon pots but that was quite sometime ago. The plants are also almost six feet tall and three feet across. Not as big as Bottlebombers jungle but still sizable.

Repotting would be ideal but I have no larger pots nor much in the way of surplus dirt right now. I'll see what I can drum up.

I'm in a very forgiving part of the Great White North. We shouldn't have frost until November.
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#48 425nm

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Posted 29 August 2018 - 10:31 PM

Ideally I'd sink them in the ground PJ but none of my beds (that aren't visible from the street) get enough sun ):

#49 425nm

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 01:15 AM

Okay so, stop gap measure: I dug out part of my compost heap (only just occurring to me: probably why my back has been sore all day), mixed some more of organic flowering ferts in, and threw it on as top dressing (I clawed back the mulch first and then dropped it back on top).

 

IMG 20180830 122508
 
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Definitely not as good as re-potting. I could probably get some 10 gallon cloth pots but I'm leery of trying to re-pot such big ass plants. I should probably just do it. Although all I have to work with is more compost.
As for whether or not I am seeing flowering. It could just be more subtle than I'm expecting? Like the nodes are definitely really tightening up but the pre-flowers are really taking their time swelling (or do the flower proper emerge elsewhere?). This is what I'm working with:
 

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I do believe there is a photo from every plant represented.


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#50 PJammer24

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 12:54 PM

I personally wouldn't transplant them at this point. Ideally, I would have put them into their final size pot on the last transplant. Popping them in the ground would really be hard on your back... You would be digging some pretty good size holes....

 

Transplanting a 7 gallon root mass into the ground or into a bigger pot is not a small task. I can't say that I have experience transplanting right as they are going to start flowering, but I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it because of the shock to the plant.

 

7 gallons is bigger than what I thought I was looking at in the photo. Ideally, I would want them in the ground or in a big ole raised bed but at this point I would just roll with what you have...

 

I am just a midwest country boy... Someone from the left coast may have more experience from which they have developed a different perspective on transplanting on the eve of the flowering cycle....



#51 phlegmbae

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 02:10 PM

Here's something to consider. Do you have street lights, or any outdoor flood lights? Because that can cause light pollution to a plant. Confusing it. Thus stalling flowering, or worse yet causing hermaphrodites. As far as spider mites, outdoor plants don't usually have big issues with them because of the natural predators that occur outdoors. Unless the plants are unhealthy for some reason. And I'm not seeing the stippling associated with mites on anything but your lower, weaker leaves. Which is probably normal. If you're worried about them, I'd strongly recommend Green Light Fruit Tree Spray. As far as I know it's only available at Lowe's. You can use it right up to the day of harvest. I've used it indoors for super mites that have become immune to even the harshest pesticides, and it kills them, and their eggs. It's made from a naturally occurring pyrethrin based organic compound. The wilting could be genetics, under watering, or what I suspect, over fertilizing. Which will cause a reverse osmosis situation where the plant actually has the water sucked out of the it by the roots. Rather than the way it's normally transpired through the leaves. It's got to do with changing the make up of your soil through salt build up, but I don't want to go into all that. Maybe try not fertilizing. It looks like you've got some good compost there. That will work even better anyway.  


Edited by phlegmbae, 31 August 2018 - 02:24 PM.


#52 425nm

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 06:11 PM

I personally wouldn't transplant them at this point. Ideally, I would have put them into their final size pot on the last transplant. Popping them in the ground would really be hard on your back... You would be digging some pretty good size holes....

 

Transplanting a 7 gallon root mass into the ground or into a bigger pot is not a small task. I can't say that I have experience transplanting right as they are going to start flowering, but I wouldn't feel comfortable doing it because of the shock to the plant.

 

7 gallons is bigger than what I thought I was looking at in the photo. Ideally, I would want them in the ground or in a big ole raised bed but at this point I would just roll with what you have...

 

I am just a midwest country boy... Someone from the left coast may have more experience from which they have developed a different perspective on transplanting on the eve of the flowering cycle....

 

I'll just have to start getting up earlier to water them. Honestly my sleep schedule needs to be adjusted back to human hours anyway.
I was on the fence this morning about ordering bigger pots. Honestly my back would be fine. I'm still pretty young and spry (I was just digging out the compost at a weird angle). I'm more worried about accidentally snapping the main stalk in the process of transplanting.

 

Here's something to consider. Do you have street lights, or any outdoor flood lights? Because that can cause light pollution to a plant. Confusing it. Thus stalling flowering, or worse yet causing hermaphrodites. As far as spider mites, outdoor plants don't usually have big issues with them because of the natural predators that occur outdoors. Unless the plants are unhealthy for some reason. And I'm not seeing the stippling associated with mites on anything but your lower, weaker leaves. Which is probably normal. If you're worried about them, I'd strongly recommend Green Light Fruit Tree Spray. As far as I know it's only available at Lowe's. You can use it right up to the day of harvest. I've used it indoors for super mites that have become immune to even the harshest pesticides, and it kills them, and their eggs. It's made from a naturally occurring pyrethrin based organic compound. The wilting could be genetics, under watering, or what I suspect, over fertilizing. Which will cause a reverse osmosis situation where the plant actually has the water sucked out of the it by the roots. Rather than the way it's normally transpired through the leaves. It's got to do with changing the make up of your soil through salt build up, but I don't want to go into all that. Maybe try not fertilizing. It looks like you've got some good compost there. That will work even better anyway.  

 

Shiiiiiiiiiit, I think you might have hit the nail on the head. We have a security light that for whatever reason the landlords have wired to just turn on at night rather than motion triggers. Its not right by the Cannabis (its on the other side of the greenhouse) but that could be part of the problem. It certainly does serve its purpose as the one time I was lazy about changing the bulb after it burnt out someone literally stole a bunch of plants out of our yard. Not ever valuable ones or just ones in nice pots and enough of them that they surely had a car or something.

On the other hand, I consult a friend who is also growing and theirs are only just moving into flowering now. Their plants were even ahead of mine earlier in the summer as they get better sun exposure. Its all rather odd.

As for the spidermite, under most circumstances you're correct. Natural enemies will roll in and balance things out BUT for whatever reason in my yard I get a massive bloom of them starting in one spot and spreading to most of the yard after that. I usually have to knock them back with insecticidal soap for awhile before the predators show up. Next year if I am on top of my shit I'll try to get my hands on some bio-control to release ahead of the hot hot weather that seems to trigger the bloom. That and even bigger pots for next year.



#53 phlegmbae

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 06:31 PM

That type of light pollution is quite easy to overlook. Last year I gave my neighbor a few clones to grow in his backyard. After seeing those annoying flood lights of his on, I told him he will get better buds if he doesn't give them light in their dark cycle. I turned off our security lights to accommodate his grow too. It took a little longer, but he was able to harvest a decent couple of plants. 



#54 425nm

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Posted 31 August 2018 - 06:55 PM

That type of light pollution is quite easy to overlook. Last year I gave my neighbor a few clones to grow in his backyard. After seeing those annoying flood lights of his on, I told him he will get better buds if he doesn't give them light in their dark cycle. I turned off our security lights to accommodate his grow too. It took a little longer, but he was able to harvest a decent couple of plants. 

 

Well shit. I am now torn. I really want to do all that I can for my plants but at the same time it will be bad news if randos wander into the yard at night and discover said plants.



#55 phlegmbae

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 11:05 AM

You could get a green security light bulb. Green light doesn't effect the dark cycle of plants. Outdoors you really can't get total darkness anyway. Lightening from storms, the moonlight. Yet they'll still finish in nature. If you can find a couple of green flood lights, your problem should be solved. That is until they really start to stink when they get closer to harvest.


Edited by phlegmbae, 02 September 2018 - 11:30 AM.


#56 Dipole

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Posted 02 September 2018 - 11:38 AM

That type of light pollution is quite easy to overlook. Last year I gave my neighbor a few clones to grow in his backyard. After seeing those annoying flood lights of his on, I told him he will get better buds if he doesn't give them light in their dark cycle. I turned off our security lights to accommodate his grow too. It took a little longer, but he was able to harvest a decent couple of plants. 

I had a problem with a neighbor leaving the floods on at night too.

They had a mentally retarded boy and 4 dogs.

The kid would turn on the light to see what the dogs were barking at,

he would look over the fence to see what I was doing,

and he would leave the lights on.

The lights were not well positioned.

Half the light was set to illuminate the neighbors property,

not their own.

Eventually someone would turn lights off.

Very annoying.

 

I found I had to move my grow indoors at night anyway.

Too many nocturnal moths laying budworms on my bud.


Edited by Dipole, 02 September 2018 - 11:41 AM.


#57 425nm

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Posted 06 September 2018 - 08:25 PM

HAHA! Floodlights be damned we have flowering!

 

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#58 425nm

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 03:17 AM

Weather's been cloudy and rainy. Day times of 15-16C and night times of 9-10C.

 

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Sun has made the odd appearance. Plants are almost entirely under the eaves except for a few branches. Hopefully fungus doesn't become an issue. Ideally I'd like to get some more bud growth in before harvest.



#59 425nm

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Posted 12 September 2018 - 03:09 PM

IMG 20180912 113128

 

Plants are maybe a foot shy of my bedroom window. Makes it very easy to check on them when I wake up.
 

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Bud shots!


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#60 425nm

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Posted 15 September 2018 - 05:29 PM

More bud shots! They so pretty! I want to harvest when about 50% of the pistils have curled and turned orange right?
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One of the branches that isn't quite under the eaves.

 

Slightly magnified pictures below. Had another few days of overcast and rain. No obvious sign of fungus or anything bad so far. Nor any sign of cabbage loopers.

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The sun returned twenty minutes after I took all the other pictures so I snapped another leaning out the window (also what I do when I don't want to go all the way outside to smoke weed).

 


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