Yes, Webster's tek is interesting. The only info I have on it is about a paragraph long (the discussion about it at the Jan 2006 LSD symposium) and it doesn't go into much detail for a non-chemist. I believe it is a double acid-base type of extraction. Pharmboy is interested as well in Webster's method and plans to explore it further. Being a non-chemist, I would need a detailed tek that may be developed one day in order to follow it in theory.
Lucid and Visual Morning Glory LSA Extracts
Started By
tregar
, Aug 23 2006 08:03 PM
63 replies to this topic
#22
odrorir
-
- Expired Member
- 79 posts
Mycophiliac
Posted 01 September 2006 - 12:15 PM
If you can find it for me I will see what I can dig up too. I know I saw it somewhere. It shouldn't be too hard to break into basic steps.
Yes, Webster's tek is interesting. The only info I have on it is about a paragraph long (the discussion about it at the Jan 2006 LSD symposium) and it doesn't go into much detail for a non-chemist. I believe it is a double acid-base type of extraction. Pharmboy is interested as well in Webster's method and plans to explore it further. Being a non-chemist, I would need a detailed tek that may be developed one day in order to follow it in theory.
#23
tregar
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- Free Member
- 1,336 posts
Mycotopiate
Posted 01 September 2006 - 01:49 PM
Here it is:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
In January at the Conference in Basel, a speaker Peter Webster brought up his experiments w/ extractions of Morning Glories. Which involved a simple basified extract (I'll detail below) of Morning Glories which yielded ~2mL of a light colored syrup that flouresced bright blue under UV (which is characteristic for for simple lysergic acid amides) with ~2mg of this syrup was obtained a full on psychedelic experience remarked equally as strong as high dose LSD trips he had experienced. At the conference he goes on to hypothesize that a ergine/isoergine basified solution was likely the Kykeon of Eleusis. Though he admits there remains uncertainty about ergine/isoergine and their psychoactivity in isomeric equilibrium; as such it remains to be pointed out why some people with some preparations HIT THE BULL'S EYE! and others get little other than SEDATION.
... The procedure involved extracting finely powdered Heavenly Blue Morning Glories w/ Ethanol. Most ethanol was evaporated off in a rotovap, added a bit more water, basified the messy solution w/ ammonia (to make sure alkaloids weren't in the salt form) & extracted 3x w/ dichloromethane, combined extracts were extracted with w/ water containing 5% tartaric acid. The alkaloidal-tartarate solution was basified w/ ammonia and extracted w/ dichloromethane. Evaporate DCM leaving a light coloured syrup that fluoresced bright blue under blacklight.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also this:
QUOTE: (from Peter Webster, page 182 of "Sacred Mushrooms of the Goddess, Secrets of Eleusis" May 2006)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the late 1960s, when I started my research on these matters, I had gone to Mexico to experiment with morning glory seeds, and to begin with, I extracted several kilos of seed using a simple process, purifying an alcoholic extract between organic solvents in the presence of ammonia and aqueous solutions of tartaric acid. After a couple of days' work, I obtained a nearly colorless syrup that exhibited the bright-blue fluorescence of active lysergic acid compounds. A few milligrams of this syrup, taken in a capsule, produced one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences I had known, and by then I had already taken high-dose LSD several times."
"Ever since, it has therefore been a mystery to me why ergine should be such a fickle psychedelic, failing with some trials yet succeeding in others. My explanation is that my extraction procedure allowed the equilibration of the original extracted ergine to the three variants, and it was this mixture that was so effective. We do know, of course, that sometimes a mixture of two or more drugs can be more effective than any single drug alone."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pharmboy believes it is a double acid-base type extraction.
It may also be possible to contact Peter Webster directly to get more insight, I've seen his contact information posted thru a simple search on google. I believe he is the founder of the on-line psychedelic library and actively involved in some other groups on-line. username J. Alfred Prufrock was able to contact him (over at bluelight.nu) to get his comments on a discussion back in mid-August concerning a thread on the subject of the equilibrium conformation theory with ergine/iso-ergine and his comments in response to what Prof. Nichols had to say about his speech at the Basil symposium.
Erowid also has this acid-->base extraction process that can be continued as many times as
desired:
http://www.erowid.or...traction1.shtml
I also found an interesting paper entitled "LSD and its Lysergamides" by Prof. Nichols, Ph.D link below. The paper states mechanisms of possible actions of LSD including interacting with brain 5-HT2A receptors--activation of the receptor by LSD typically only reaches 25% of the maxiumum, whereas serotonin reaches 100%. It also has actions at many other brain receptors that may amplify, modulate, or influence its overall effects on consciousness.
http://www.heffter.o...hyl groups LSD"
Abbreviated Name ------------------------- R ------------------------ R1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LSD-25 ----------------------------------- CH2CH3 ------------------ CH2CH3
*Ergonovine (Ergometrine) -------------------- CH3 -------------------- CH2OH
*d-Lysergic acid N-(1-hydroxyethylamide) ----- CH3 ------------------------ OH
*ergine------------------------------------------H---------------------------H
*some of the compounds found in the seeds.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
In January at the Conference in Basel, a speaker Peter Webster brought up his experiments w/ extractions of Morning Glories. Which involved a simple basified extract (I'll detail below) of Morning Glories which yielded ~2mL of a light colored syrup that flouresced bright blue under UV (which is characteristic for for simple lysergic acid amides) with ~2mg of this syrup was obtained a full on psychedelic experience remarked equally as strong as high dose LSD trips he had experienced. At the conference he goes on to hypothesize that a ergine/isoergine basified solution was likely the Kykeon of Eleusis. Though he admits there remains uncertainty about ergine/isoergine and their psychoactivity in isomeric equilibrium; as such it remains to be pointed out why some people with some preparations HIT THE BULL'S EYE! and others get little other than SEDATION.
... The procedure involved extracting finely powdered Heavenly Blue Morning Glories w/ Ethanol. Most ethanol was evaporated off in a rotovap, added a bit more water, basified the messy solution w/ ammonia (to make sure alkaloids weren't in the salt form) & extracted 3x w/ dichloromethane, combined extracts were extracted with w/ water containing 5% tartaric acid. The alkaloidal-tartarate solution was basified w/ ammonia and extracted w/ dichloromethane. Evaporate DCM leaving a light coloured syrup that fluoresced bright blue under blacklight.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Also this:
QUOTE: (from Peter Webster, page 182 of "Sacred Mushrooms of the Goddess, Secrets of Eleusis" May 2006)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"In the late 1960s, when I started my research on these matters, I had gone to Mexico to experiment with morning glory seeds, and to begin with, I extracted several kilos of seed using a simple process, purifying an alcoholic extract between organic solvents in the presence of ammonia and aqueous solutions of tartaric acid. After a couple of days' work, I obtained a nearly colorless syrup that exhibited the bright-blue fluorescence of active lysergic acid compounds. A few milligrams of this syrup, taken in a capsule, produced one of the most powerful psychedelic experiences I had known, and by then I had already taken high-dose LSD several times."
"Ever since, it has therefore been a mystery to me why ergine should be such a fickle psychedelic, failing with some trials yet succeeding in others. My explanation is that my extraction procedure allowed the equilibration of the original extracted ergine to the three variants, and it was this mixture that was so effective. We do know, of course, that sometimes a mixture of two or more drugs can be more effective than any single drug alone."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Pharmboy believes it is a double acid-base type extraction.
It may also be possible to contact Peter Webster directly to get more insight, I've seen his contact information posted thru a simple search on google. I believe he is the founder of the on-line psychedelic library and actively involved in some other groups on-line. username J. Alfred Prufrock was able to contact him (over at bluelight.nu) to get his comments on a discussion back in mid-August concerning a thread on the subject of the equilibrium conformation theory with ergine/iso-ergine and his comments in response to what Prof. Nichols had to say about his speech at the Basil symposium.
Erowid also has this acid-->base extraction process that can be continued as many times as
desired:
http://www.erowid.or...traction1.shtml
I also found an interesting paper entitled "LSD and its Lysergamides" by Prof. Nichols, Ph.D link below. The paper states mechanisms of possible actions of LSD including interacting with brain 5-HT2A receptors--activation of the receptor by LSD typically only reaches 25% of the maxiumum, whereas serotonin reaches 100%. It also has actions at many other brain receptors that may amplify, modulate, or influence its overall effects on consciousness.
http://www.heffter.o...hyl groups LSD"
Abbreviated Name ------------------------- R ------------------------ R1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LSD-25 ----------------------------------- CH2CH3 ------------------ CH2CH3
*Ergonovine (Ergometrine) -------------------- CH3 -------------------- CH2OH
*d-Lysergic acid N-(1-hydroxyethylamide) ----- CH3 ------------------------ OH
*ergine------------------------------------------H---------------------------H
*some of the compounds found in the seeds.
#24
tregar
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- Free Member
- 1,336 posts
Mycotopiate
Posted 17 September 2006 - 09:59 PM
Before I let this thread die in peace I wanted to post my last bits of valuable information that I've learned below. I've had personal correspondance with hermes the last few days and he has taught me much about this subject, but has since moved on to other interest such as salvia. He believes the reason he has not gone back is that it was all a bit much. He still hasn't digested all the information he learned from the experiences back then, and mentioned to me that he could even develop a career out of even one of the small pieces of the experience he learned back then.
QUOTE from hermes (lycaeum March 2003) on morning glory visuals & strength:
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Depending on seed quality, you should get some weak to decent effects from 8 grams, like mild reality bending, marked enhancement of aesthetic perception, insights, weak open eye visuals, moderate but subtle closed eye visuals (especially with music). I find that more satisfactory results are achieved with more seeds, like 14 grams or more. This much is needed to enter truly psychedelic territory. I wouldn't recommend this much if you haven't tried lower doses with the same seeds and method, however. LSA can cause significant vasoconstriction, causing restricted blood circulation to extremities. Make sure that your toes don't get numb or tingly on 8 or so grams first. And don't mix with other vasoconstrictives, like ephedrine or caffiene.
I usually just measure by Burpee bags. These are 1.8 grams each. I have used anything ranging from 3 to 12 of these. Strangely, the 12 bag trip was relatively weak. They must have been some old seeds. My strongest experience ever with MG seeds was with the Martha Stewart brand from K-Mart.
I had strong 4D lattice-like open eye visuals and warping and melting of furniture with only 400 seeds. There are about 32-36 seeds to a gram. The Martha Stewarts are more expensive than the Burpees. They are like $1.30 a bag or something close to that for a 1.2 gram bag. The Burpees are something like $0.88 a bag and each bag has 1.8 grams. That's $2.05 a gram for Martha Stewart seeds and $0.92 a gram for Burpee seeds. It seems to be a trade off.
My favorite way to go about this is to first wash the whole seeds in a bowl with a little water and a very small amount of liquid handsoap. I slosh them around and rub them a bit in the soapy water (not too long--could reduce potency). I then rinse them good with cold water in one of those screen vegetable strainers. This is intended to wash off any fungicide or other adulterants. I then dry the seeds well with paper towels. Then I grind the seeds in coffee grinder to a fairly fine consistency, but not to the point of being powder. The hulls should remain somewhat course, while the lighter colored inner stuff is pretty much powder. I then put this stuff into one or several empty tea bags. Don't overfill one. If the bags are small, use several. Next, put the bag(s) into a full glass of cold distilled water and use a spoon to press on them and make sure they are well-saturated with water. Let sit for 10 minutes in a cool dark place. Use spoon to squeeze and agitate the bag against side of glass some more to get more stuff out. Don't press too hard or you will break the bag and get seed mush into the water, which is undesireable. Leave for 10 more minutes. Squeeze again. Leave for 10 minutes. Squeeze. Remove bags after squeezing most of the water from them into the glass. You can suck on the bags if you want to get more stuff. I don't generally do this. Discard bags. Drink water. Get yourself into the mood with some good music and wait for effects. You might want to take a little ginger if you are worried about nausea. Usually I don't get any, but sometimes there is a little, probably partly from pre-trip anticipation anxiety.
QUOTE (report) from hermes:
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My favorite thing to do while on LSA is to play a musical instrument (guitar, didgeridoo, drums) or paint or do something meditative like that while I am coming up. Don't watch TV. It puts the wrong kinds of thoughts in your head and can result in a bad trip. When I am getting into it pretty well, I retire to the bedroom and turn off the lights and put on some good quality headphones with good music. This results in fantastic visuals unlike anything you have ever imagined if you have never used a good psychedelic before. I see amazing three and seemingly four-dimensional shapes morphing and bifurcating. Often I get religious and esoteric themed visuals, like fractal cherub wings and winged eyes like those in some of Alex Grey's work. Eyes are all over everything! I see pyramids and sphinxes and Gigeresque biomechanical forms. I see amazing geometric lattice structures. I watch mathematical space-filling algorithms doing their thing. I also find that I can control the imagery by an act of will. Anything I intend to visualize comes forth and then goes beyond what I had imagined and then transforms into something else. This is great for artists! I could swear that on one occasion while listening to Mozart's Requiem, Heaven itself opened up inside my skull! It was incredible! OH, THE BEAUTY! I saw glorious celestial architecture and there were seraphs singing along with the chorus in the music. I just can't even begin to describe what this was like. I had tears streaming down my face. I was in the highest ecstacy I have ever known. And all of this with a nothing more than a good mindset, good music, and only about 500 seeds. I'll never forget it. It was probably all in my imagination, programmed by my Catholic upbringing. I don't know and don't really care where it came from. It was the most beautiful thing I have ever experienced, and I still feel great joy when I think of it. I felt so whole!
On other occasions with LSA (I took it while in a less than ideal mind state), I felt like I went to Hell. Everything was empty and awful and terrifying and lonely. I felt like there were worms boring through my brain, eating it. I was a hole. That is the only way to describe it. I felt vacuous. I trembled with horror. Everything felt so incredibly meaningless.
I hope your experiences will take you to nice places. Be careful. Your brain is not a toy. Consider yourself warned.
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QUOTE from hermes:
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For me, they seem to be similar in both duration and effect. The only real difference I notice is that LSA is a little more lethargic, at least in the early phase of the trip. LSD is a bit more speedy. With LSA, I am much more able to lay around or focus on one task like painting. I also noticed that it is possible to go to sleep while still tripping on LSA, which is impossible with LSD. I slept once on LSA and had incredibly visual dreams! These were the most beautiful visuals I have ever seen under any circumstances. I dreamt that I was being shown the entire unfoldment of the universe, with the evolution of man, and it was all represented on this incredible spinning wheel. It was indescribable. I want to go to sleep on LSA again and attempt to have a lucid dream. That would be nothing short of amazing!
Anyway, my LSA trips last 10-12 hours or so, with slight effects that linger for another 24 hours or so. And I usually feel something like an afterglow for a week or so afterwards. During this period, I am much more creative than usual and happier too. I also notice that colors look slightly more pronounced for a week or so in a very LSA specific way. I never noticed this on LSD.
Comfortably_Numb asked where I buy my seeds from. K-mart and Wal Mart have been typical sources. The most powerful brand of seeds that I ever tried were the Martha Stewart brand from K-Mart (I had strong effects, with good open eye visuals, on only 300 seeds! I used a water extraction with some added lemon juice on this occasion. I do not know if this helped). Burpee seeds work well too, but didn't seem as potent as the Martha Stewart brand. The Burpee seeds are less expensive. I have never tried bulk seeds. As far as I know, the ones that I tried didn't have any pesticides. Nothing was mentioned on the package that would indicate this. I did always wash the seeds just in case, however.
If anyone tries this, inform us about the results. Tell me if the tea-bag method worked for you.
If the taste bothers you, you can add something to the water, but I wouldn't guarantee that it will not reduce potency. The taste isn't that bad. Just drink it fast.
Slimey, in order to get a crystalline product, you would have to go even further than the organic solvent/alcohol extraction. But the crude result that this method gives is good enough. You can just put the product in gel caps or something. With the water extraction, it is very difficult to evaporate the water without adding heat or having long term exposure. If you had a strong vacuum chamber, you could evaporate the water cold and leave behind the residue. That is the only good reason to use the organic solvent/alcohol extraction, to evaporate the alcohol and leave a solid product. But if you are just going to consume it immediately, why bother? Just drink the water. The taste is a small price to pay. And it isn't all that bad anyway. Put some sugar in it or something! Just don't make coffee out of it!
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QUOTE from hermes:
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Thank you Kosmo, for demonstrating that I do know what I am talking about when it comes to Morning Glory seeds! How strong was your experience? 750 seeds should have given a medium level trip if you extracted them well and they were potent seeds. Did you have any noticeable visual effects, with eyes closed or open? Did you do Morning Glories alone? I look forward to reading your report!
You see, people? He said, "no nausea!" Now notice that all the people who eat the seeds directly or extract poorly get sick as hell. Why someone would insist on getting sick just to get slightly more LSA out of a given quantity of seeds is beyond me. You will not get a 100% yield this way, but you can just add more seedsn and they are not very expensive, even in the seed packets.
So, Kosmo, after doing it this way, would you see any reason to do it any other way? It is simple and fast, isn't it? Can you possibly understand why so many people refuse to follow my advice? I sure can't. And it didn't taste too bad, did it?
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QUOTE from hermes:
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Was it sitting in a light place? Light will do the LSA harm.
I really don't know if or how much LSA would be destroyed by oxidation when it has been sitting in oxygenated water for a few hours. The most likely thing is that the seeds were short in quantity or potency, or the tea bags were not squeezed and agitated enough. The biggest reason to keep the extraction short is to avoid extracting more than the desired alkaloids and also for convenience. Were the seeds black? Were they Heavenly Blues? How many did you use? Were they this year's crop? Did you use distilled water?
The hardest thing to control is the freshness and potency of the seeds. If you buy the bulk kind, who the hell knows how old they are? The ones that come in packets are usually dated, if I remember right. I'll have to go look. And who knows where the seeds have been stored throughout their entire existence? Someone could have left them in a hot place for a time, which would annihilate the LSA.
But without at least the dosage, I can't begin to tell you why the effects were so weak.
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QUOTE from hermes:
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Undertow, you are not doing something right. If you perform a proper extraction using good seeds (and a large enough quantity), you will get strong psychedelic effects and no nausea without requiring any other substances.
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QUOTE from hermes:
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So, what sort of comparison would you now make between LSD and LSA? In my experience, they are difficult to tell apart. The taste in my mouth and the physical energy level are the only things that seem different. LSD causes a "taste hallucination" that resembles rusty iron, while LSA causes a taste somewhat like bee pollen. Also, LSA has a much more lethargic feel, at least in the early portion of the trip. Other than that, they are the same for me. Really, it seems like LSA is a little more visual for me for a given amount of mind alteration.
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QUOTE from hermes:
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What is it with eyes anyhow? Does anyone else see eyes filling their CEVs or OEVs? I see eyes, eyes in triangles, wings, eyes in triangles with wings, cherubim, seraphim, pyramids, pyramids with wings and eyes and caducea, utchats, lions, owls, cobras, and generally anything related to the Western Mystery Tradition. The first great "vision" I saw was while on Morning Glories and listening to Mozart's Requiem. When the Lacrimosa began, I saw incredible Angelic forms and felt this incredible awe and love for existence. I think I stole a glimpse of the Beautific Vision itself. I cried and sobbed for hours, in pure ecstacy. I knew, however, that I only encountered the very periphery of the "Inner Kingdom," since the cherubs revealed neither their hands nor their faces, just three pairs of wings. I had never seen them before this, in religious paintings or otherwise. I had not read the bible or anything before this had happened. Afterwards, upon doing a bit of research, I saw that they are commonly encountered by mystics of various cultures, especially in the West. In particular, I saw them in a book on Islamic architecture, painted on the ceiling of a Mosque. These looked incredibly similar to those I saw, only very washed out and a far cry from the real thing. These things just can't be painted. They have to be experienced.
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QUOTE from hermes:
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You want to surround yourself with nice, comforting things, things that make you feel safe. Just the slightest threat can
trigger obsessive feedback loops of paranoia. Although, this paranoia has seemed more prevalent for me on psilocybin than on LSA or LSD. Usually with LSA or LSD, I become less fearful than usual, which can be dangerous!
It always seems to me that with LSA, the highly visual phase is late in the session, long after body phase and introspective phase. I wonder if the occipital lobe (visual cortex if I am not mistaken) of the brain is one of the last regions of the brain through which the blood passes.
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QUOTE from hermes:
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"creation-in-us," where do you get this crap? You are all backwards. I have YEARS of experience with Morning Glories, i.e. tlitlitzin, and I know that LSA IS WATER SOLUBLE! I can show the MERCK reference if you want. You drink the water and trash the pulp! You are going to poison people with your advice! All the bad stuff is nonpolar and tends to remain in the pulp when the polar LSA is extracted with water. Do a little research will ya? Kids these days...
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QUOTE (trip report) from EndlessSky79 (lycaeum April 2006):
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This was my third time taking Morning Glory. I usually take it in a Shamanic context, grinding the seeds in the dawn, allowing the pulp to soak in cool water for three days, then ritually drinking the strained liquid. Well, my experience the other night was amazing....and not at all what I expected.
Background: Im a chronic pain patient, experienced with LSD, opiates, and in general view psychedelics as mind expanding allies...okay- onto the good stuff.
After pretty much a week of living hell due to my pain and Ultram (which does nothing), I decided that three nights ago, I needed a vacation. Not a little DXM vacation (I don't take much DXM on the scale- usually just enough to reach a lower '2nd' plateau...a lot like being drunk and stoned at the same time, but less disorienting). I needed something strong which wouldn't hurt my liver, which is damaged, and would bring me positive energy.
After deliberating, and a bit of prayer, I decided to take Morning Glory seeds and see where the night took me. At 9pm I took an anti-nausea pill in preparation for my journey. Little did I know what I was in for. I powdered up 200 seeds in the ubiquitous coffee grinder, and painstakingly transfered the powder (black shell husk fragments were removed by hand) into gelatin capsules. By the time I was done, it was about 10pm, and I was ready to go. I swallowed down 12 capsules, and laid down waiting for the magickal seeds to take their effect. I told Tlitlitzen (the name the plant spirit gave me on a previous trip) that I just needed a beautiful trip, and if there was any knowledge I needed, it wouldn't hurt, but I primarily needed a mental vacation.
At 10:45 I started to feel a little nauseous, however, this feeling was quelled by the anti- nausea pill (well, something good has come of my liver problems). Usually about an hour after ingesting the seeds, I vomit much like Linda Blair in that horror classic we all know and love. Not this time, though!
As I laid back on the couch, gazing at the ceiling, it slowly began undulating, and gently morphing colors from light pink, to green, to blue, and then back, as though the ceiling was dancing. (The ceiling is white). I raised my right hand before my eyes, and it seemed as though in an instant my hand was aged to the point of a 90 year olds'- almost skeletal, and then back to normal. However, this reminder of my mortality didn't bother me at all. I felt comforted, as though a huge, warm blanket has been wrapped around my body on a cold winters' night. I felt as though nothing could harm me, that I was a part of the cycle of life, and that the journey ahead was going to be good. When I looked over at my husband's (Eli) 'Invader Zim' house (DVD special edition holder), I could see it seem to grow. The lights within the 'house' looked as though they were on, and I fancied that I saw shadows crossing in front of the window where people might walk. It was an interesting hallucination.
At around 11:30, I got up to use the bathroom, however, my balance was slighly off. Eli had been giving me a gentle footrub, and my feet and hands were cold under the blue and white striped blanket which I had draped over myself. Unfortunately, nature called, so I got up to go to the restroom.
Now, according to traditional research and chemical knowledge, the active ingredient in MG seeds is LSA- derived from ergot alkaloids. The whole seeds, when consumed without any sort of distillation or purification process (such as cold water extraction) are supposed to produce some very unpleasant side effects. The majority of the ergot alkaloids which cause unpleasant side effects such as 'fish eye' vision and nausea are contained in the outer hull- most of which I had picked out- so I was pleasantly surprised at the smoothness of the ride so far. As I sat in the bathroom, the walls on the shower melted together in gentle pastel patterns- mirroring the ceiling earlier. I was completely enchanted by a body wash container that has a picture of lavender on it, as the lavender picture seemed to grow vines, and the flowers seemed to expand gently. I was sad to leave the bathroom, but happy to get back to Eli.
On my return to the comfort of the couch, I decided to take 3 balloons of nitrous oxide in order to facilitate the experience. (The two chemicals are very synergistic). Eli, despite the fact that he doesn't like nitrous, was kind enough to monitor me, and kept track of the time between when I first started to inhale the gas, and when I lost conscious control of my body. I laid back, and raised my left foot slightly. When the foot dropped- I'd be out. I cranked up the 'Magic carpet ride' remix by Fatboy Slim on my I-Pod, and brought the balloon to my lips. It seemed like forever for me, however, it was in reality about 50 seconds before I actually dropped my foot.
I was floating in a supremely peaceful darkness, feeling the presence of the feminine and masculine divine. I laughed while I was under, (I think sheerly from the joy of the feeling of being so unconditionally loved and accepted.) I then thought of Eli, and how much joy he gave me- then I floated back to my body, which was mercifully free of pain for a time, and told him how much I loved him. My second balloon caused beautiful fractal patterns (CEVs- Closed Eye Visuals) behind my eyelids. Again I felt that overwhelming presence, and was unable to communicate to Eli the sheer wonder of the experience. When I came back, the MG was very much accentuated by the nitrous oxide, and everywhere I looked, bookshelves were undulating. The blue light from a lamp we'd liberated from the dumpster the day before seemed to have rubbed off on the light switch across the rooom- a full visual hallucination.
When I closed my eyes, I could still feel the pull towards the divine space I'd felt earlier, and I tried to explore my feelings on it when I realized (was told, directed, or my mind decided it would be better) that I should focus on Eli. He is such an important, amazing part of my life.
The feeling and visuals I was experiencing can only be likened to the descriptions I've heard of people who take LSD and Ecstasy at the same time. I felt completely open- yet wasn't babbling. (At least, I don't believe I was, and Eli certainly wasnt looking at me in horror, so I assumed all was good.) I proceeded to have a long talk with Eli about my pain and how it's been affecting our relationship. He told me about many things he'd been thinking about. I am very glad we had that conversation.
At around 1ish or so, Eli went to bed. I decided to join him, and although I could see amazing interplays between the lights and the shadows in the bedroom, I closed my eyes and focused on the warmth of him. The way he smelled, the feeling of our cheeks and lips touching. We talked for a while, softly, and we held each other while talking about our concerns for the future- and decided that we would do our best to make things work. He said that he couldn't imagine a life without me, and I realized that the statement was true of me too. I wouldn't want to live life without him to share it with me. I want him by me every step of the way. We held each other in the dark for a time, until I realized I wouldn't be able to sleep....so I kissed him goodnight and went out to the family room.
Now, I misplaced my 'trip toy' of a fan which makes pretty light patterns, however, I turned on Eli's 'Lightning' blue lamp, and watched as the lightning seemed to ark all over the room, turning from bright blue to electric green and soft pink. I turned on the Beatles, and Magickal Mystery tour came on. I enjoyed the Beatles until a desire siezed me to go outside. I snuck back into the bedroom, for sweats, a Rainbow Brite sweatshirt, and my long 'pimp jacket'. When brought into the light of the room, the 'pimp jacket' seemed to take on a life of its own- changing textures and shapes- fascinating me with the never ending fluctuations of possibilities emerging from what a few hours before has been a simple coat. I put the coat on, and walked outside, closing the door.
There was a light breeze blowing, and as I looked up, I saw the firt 'true' hallucinations I've ever experienced. The stars seemed to multiply, and spiral softly down from the velvet sky, swirling and dancing in a rhythm that seemed to encompass all of nature. The 'shooting stars were so captivating that I had to sit on the sidewalk in awe. The bushes all around me constantly changed shapes and forms- going from rich earthy green, to a lighter color- the color of spring. The air smelled sharp, rich- full of growing things. I had to walk around and see more.
As I walked slowly around the apartment, the streetlamps were beacons shining out in the night. The light which is usually bright yellow pulsed between yellow, bright purple, and gentle blue, seeming to encourage me to come and stare at it- to touch the rays that looked so real. The stoplight on the street had 3 images which slowly swirled around each other.
The pine trees swayed and changed shape. The clouds above me were forming fantastic images (and I'm sure there weren't any clouds in the sky at the time). I saw dragons, nymphs, birds, all things from myth and fairy tale. I felt as though I was walking the line between where fantasy and reality meet, and it was wonderful. Despite all my prior experiences with good LSD, nothing even came CLOSE to this. I realized I should probably go inside, so I went back to the 'lightning lamp' and was mesmerized by the Mamas and the Papas while watching the colors pulse, and the bookshelves along the walls change shape slowly and majestically. One second they reached the ceiling- the next, they seemed two feet tall. My own feet seemed miles away. My statue of Ganesha danced, holding his tusk out, and growed an extra set of arms which seemed to hold a knife, a book, a flute, and an incense holder, which gently poured smoke out to vanish into thin air.
Finally, around 5am, the hallucinations were at a managable level (just vague undulations of the ground and halos around lights), so I decided to drive to the store. I made sure I was safe to drive by taking a test run around the parking lot. Sure enough, I was alert, and drove perfectly. Off I went to Rite Aid to get some chocolate! =)
With my booty in hand, when I walked out into the parking lot, I closed my eyes and recalled the feeling of the nitrous and the LSA. When I opened my eyes, the shadows seemed to play with each other and me in the parking lot- stretching out for space, then retreating, only to come back again- like a tide of soft blackness. I knew I had to go to the ocean to say a proper goodbye to my trip. The drive over the hill was uneventful. I almost thought the drug had worn off- although- if I had been tripping as hard as I had been a few hours beforehand, I never would have touched my keys.
I arrived at the ocean near dawn. I felt pulled to the waves- which sparkled- and suddenly, my trip was brought back full force. I felt like my old self again- the wide eyed innocent before the world intruded on my intrinsically optimistic beliefs. I walked out to the ocean, watching the ebb and flow of the waves, playing tag with the white, shining tide, and watching the stars glitter and occasionally multiply to form starbursts- my own private fireworks.
After a half hour, I called the Dennys by my house. My body needed food and rest in that order.
As I drove home, I was still enchanted by the interplay of shadow and light, but it didn't distract me in the least. I succcessfully bought my Moons over My Hammy and went straight home, goodies in hand. Once home, I had a few bites of sandwich, a rootbeer freeze, and a few chocolate truffles. The sun had come up, and so I took a few valium to ensure sleep. I also took hydrocodone- 40 mg. It slowly came over me in waves, and while watching the walls gently undulate and the television flicker cartoons, I drifted off into the Wonderland of my own mind.
I awoke at 1pm, feeling more rested than I have in a month. My pain level was down to a 6, and the memory and feeling of the night before stayed with me. Unfortunately, my eyes were still dilated, and I had a Drs appt at 3.
The bottom line is that Morning Glory is now one of my strongest allies. He is strong and a good teacher when I need him to be, and a generous tour guide through my imagination when I need a break.
I hope you all have a wonderful day. I can't remember a time when I last felt so free, myself, and so unburdened by cares and worries. It was truly amongst the best nights of my life.
Edit note: Eli came out at 8am, to find me completely knocked out on the couch. Apparently I still had the remote in my hand, with my arm fully extended. He tried to put my arm back so I could rest better, but apparently I wasn't in to moving. Oh- and I slept amazingly well the next night as well- with dreams I am sure were influenced by the LSA. Thank you Tlitliten!
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QUOTE from EndlessSky79:
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I was very surprised at the intensity of the experience as well! I've never experienced anything like it in my life..... I believe the fact that I work with the plant as a Shamanic ally usually plus the addition of the nitrous oxide literally threw my trip up onto the roof, whereas I expected a mildly hallucinogenic, mellow time. Also- every other time I've taken the seeds, I've ground them just as well, but thrown up the cold water extraction after an hour. Between the anti-nausea pill and the gelatin capsules, I believe it gave my body time to actually digest the whole amount of LSA. I will be repeating the experience with about 400 seeds after a few weeks. My brain definitely needs a rest, as does my body. =) Thanks for the welcome! I look forward to many more interesting experiences and reports while I'm here.
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QUOTE from EndlessSky79:
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Starshadow-
I so sympathize with the nausea problem...being ill sucks. Have you tried raw ginger? Candied ginger from Trader **** works wonders for regular nausea, as does 1 tsp freshly ground ginger put into a geletin capsule).
Now for your question: I was on compazine (25mg) for a while, but then suffered a phenothiazine reaction (apparently this class of meds can cause the pheno. reaction at ANY time- and after that you can never take them ever again as the seize will be worse.)
I was then put on Zofran- 8mg. Zofran made my MG experience possible. It works quite well....then, they give it to chemo patients, so it better ::grins::. Im sure your doc will try you on phenergan first (it's common and cheap) or compazine (see above comment about being common and cheap). =) Ginger (raw) is not, in my experience, strong enough to fight the nausea factor of MG, much the pity.
Thank you for noticing my description of feelings- for me, a trip isn't just 'pretty colors', even when I'm just going into it for recreational purposes.....I still get some level of spiritual work done. Besides, it wouldn't be a complete report without emotional status- enough people report freak outs. We need some good energy in the entheogen community!
As for the hull, once one grinds Morning Glory seeds in a coffee grinder (oh- be sure to grind in short bursts. LSA is VERY sensitive to heat, and it will be destroyed at much over room temperature.), you will be left with white powder (the main bulk), smaller tanish granules (the bulk that wasn't able to be powdered), and black bits- the husk. These bits are fairly easily picked out by hand. =) One doesn't even need to remove all of it- just the removal of the larger chunks was enough to make this trip amazing...but you read that already.
I hope your cat has beautiful visions. =) And I hope I didn't type so much that you got bored reading my response! Blessings!
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QUOTE from Shaganoz (shroomery):
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hm i find LSA just as good, if not even better, than as LSD. It's become my favorite psychedelic. And to whoever said he doubted the other guy hallucinated his balls off... sounds like you havnt had a real Morning glory trip and really SEEN its GLORY! I know for a FACT you can hallucinate pretty wild, I've seen the most remarkable things on LSA. True hardcore hallucinations, and to me it compares greatly with LSD. I usually just munch down the seeds raw, chew them very well and swallow. It may upset your stomach making you puke somewhat in the trip, but then it gets all fine again. I am however working on extractions these days to compare with raw seeds ingestions. My typical dose is around 800-1000 seeds, the most I have done was 1500 and then i tripped for 2 days straight. With hardcore hallucinations.
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QUOTE from pineal (lycaeum):
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prolix: that's great, i'm glad it worked for ya.
analog: yeah, i second everything you said there, man. For me, along with the euphoric sedated feeling, the visuals are freakin beautiful. Open-eyed, things do the melty washy visuals you get from this type of chemical, and like prolix said, your ability to imagine things and whatnot is definitely increased. And music sounds fantastic. good stuff.
pineal
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QUOTE from pineal:
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wow. I've never heard of it being sold on the street at all. I've found nobody even knows what the fuck lsa is. But i have found LSA to be sedative by nature, period, and that's what's been the biggest difference between LSA and LSD for me. Lsd's got that high-strung tweaky aspect to it, while lsa feels very sedating, almost mind-numbing, but thought stimulating at the same time.
And prolixity, post and let me know how it goes. I've done it along with 2 friends of mine, and it's worked for us. In fact the one time i did it using that prep method had to have been the best lsa trip so far. Hope it works well for you, man.
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QUOTE from pineal:
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As for chewing: i did this the first time i did MG, but damn the nausea was fucking unbearable. On subsequent trips until i learned this prep i'd just grind the seeds and encapsulate them, and horrendous nausea would ensue every time. And after a couple times of this i could just look at morning glory seeds and immediately feel ill. Ugghhhh...
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QUOTE from pineal:
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You won't find lsa on the street. No way...You'll find acid, sure...i've found when you just grind up the seeds and consume, my god the nausea is just too horrible. but here's a prep i've used, and i'll admit, when i was told how to do this, i was skeptical, but it really works.
1. go get your desired amount of morning glory seeds (i've found the perfect amount for my dog is 5 1.5g packets from let's say...home depot) and grind them up
2. put ground seeds in a glass, or some sort of see through container and juust cover with water
3. take the total volume (seeds+water) and add that much more water, stir vigorously
4. let it sit for NO MORE THAN 5 MINUTES. After five minutes or so, you're extracting all the crap...so stir about halfway through that.
5. filter the water through a shirt or something, to get the mush out
6. now filter with coffee filters over and over and over again, until your mind is numb from filtering. The more you filter, the less nausea.
7. now take the lsa juice and pour it into a full glass of Orange Juice. honest to god you won't taste it. gulp it down and you'll have a good clean trip, no nausea, for 6+ hours.
pineal
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QUOTE from undertowed_ (lycaeum April 2002):
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i took 5 packs of burpee heavenly blue... more like 4 or 4 1/2... i left a small pile cause i couldnt stomache it anymore... chewed a chocolate-chip cookie... dumped some seeds in the mouth... put another cookie in and chewed without gagging... repeate about 5 times... just the thought of the nausea the first time i did them makes me gag... almost right afterwards i smoked some grass and almost instantly i felt the effects.
this trip was different... the first hard lsa trip i had that wasnt a bad trip. all pain disappears in this place... my friend was shoving a thumb-tack in my arm for about ten seconds before i laughed and said 'what are you doing to my arm'. the effects were VERY close to mdma... almost made me wonder if the roll i had was cut with lsa (could have been). the usual reoccuring visuals i have from psychedelics came out to play... my multi-colored starbursted arrow-heads and lightning bolts... but now there were tribal aztec patterns all around... and actual images... everything was intertwined... it felt like i was swimming in cool water... the most pleasant thing i've ever felt... astounding chills all over the body... NO nausea... NO cramping or pain... 100% ecstasy.
i had a perma-grin... i found myself laughing uncontrollably at simple things... i sometimes found myself yelling very loud without realizing it... i noticed my friend meditating and decided to join in... i taught him how to work the astral doorways... we met in the astral realm in his apartment... i wanted to show him everything i could (he's against psychedelics... he's not mentally stable... so i wanted to give him a glimpse at 'the truth')... he nodded out... as soon as i nodded out he jumped up and yelled 'whoa... the entire room just turned black'... 'black with a phosphorescent-green outline?' i replied... 'yes... what was that' he said... 'that was me entering your world'... i said... he was shocked at the power i had in this place... i've been accustomed to it for years... we both nodded out... i appeared to him as a monk... i was through the doorway in seconds flat leaving him still on the couch... he said i disappeared insantly... all that was left of me was a star he picked up and looked at... he couldn't follow... he doesnt yet know how to enter a conscious dream realm... only a conscious dream of this world.
i was standing on an island... there was a round marble platform with 7 marble pillars... in the middle was a fountain spraying colors, sounds, emotions, words, feelings... truths... i bathed in it... a beam shot out of it... i saw the sun and the planets and the stars all in the light of day... this was my truth... i was teaching what this meant to a student in my dream... somebody else on the astral plane... i was their guide... i felt so high... i've encountered many guides on my astral journeys... this was the first time i was a guide to someone else in the realm... it felt better than i can explain... i pointed to the sun and said 'on earth as it is in heaven' i pointed to his head and said 'this is your truth'... then i became a tree... my branches were my ascending family... my roots were my descendants... my knowlege was my fruit... i nourished his soul with my fruit... i woke... everyone was looking at me... i was out for 5 minutes... humming and nodding... though i have no recollection of anything physical... sounds... body... anything.
i was astounded... all i could say was 'i... think... i was just in the garden of eden'...
we tried it once more, this time i summoned a dragon to take my friend with me... but the force of the dragon entering the room just pushed him out the front door of his apartment into the street... he did see the dragon outside of the window... but he didn't know i summoned it... he thought it was just a random thing... it's quite a phenomenon for two people to experience the same events in the astral realm... i was standing at a crossroads of life and death... to show my friend those parts of his mind... i asked him which path to choose... but he was gone... we woke and realized he couldn't keep up with my psyche so we stopped before we both exhausted our minds... lit up some more grass.
the rest of the night was spent laughing... swaying... running down halways wearing an american flag and a cowboy hat shooting 'spiders' with a joystick...
the peak...
i was lying on my friends bed staring at the ceiling... it's all bumpy and grainy... it started to sway like water... everything looked like water... i saw patterns within it... flowers... tribesmen... monkeys... insects... animal faces... it was amazing... then i saw a gigantic spider appear out of the wall... crawl to the center of the ceiling... stop... then (with eyes open) the entire room faded away to black... the gradiants on the ceiling reappeared in green... they were swaying... spiraling... moving... it was the most profound hallucination i've -ever- had... i simply couldn't speak afterwards... my jaw just dropped... eyes shot open wide... and a tear ran down my face while i repeated uncontrollably 'things like this once were not possible... things like this once were not possible...'... then i went home...
small peak at 3 hours... large peak at 5... effects lasted an hour into the next day... til 1 pm ( i ate them at 1 am )... some major euphoria the next day from how amazing the night was... still some psychological effects felt after grass smoked... just... burnt today... two days later.
all i have to say is... DO THESE... it's the most amazing psychedelic when mixed with pot... and it's legal... i had so many visuals and such a good body-buzz... amazing euphoria... i just with the ingestion process wasn't so tedious... i would have made a tea but had nothing to crush them with.
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QUOTE from Henry Bass, the book "tripping", 2000, page 149:
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Nothing remotely prepared me for the force of my final trip. One day, just before noon, I ingested some seeds with several friends, some who also partook and some who were there as observers or caretakers. We were lounging around the Manor, the ironic name we'd given to a seedy but spacious apartment near Harvard's Dunster House. After a while, I became sick and vomited so copiously I worried that the effect might be lost. I went to my bedroom and lay down and relaxed with my nausea.
Soon I found myself completely recovered, looking at a vast aquarium in the bottom of a glass of water. I remained fascinated with this for about an hour and then suddenly realized that what I was seeing had none of the attributes of a hallucination or dream. What I saw was indistinguishable from reality.
Excited, I ran into the kitchen and saw that someone had replaced my white Japanese lamp shades with bright red ones. This really shook me up, since it was "not" a hallucination. This was real, man! I felt completely sober and alert, while so many things around me had changed. My companions rushed in to see what all the ruckus was about, and I pointed out the red lamp shades, the wooden table that had become quartzlike, and all the new luster and colors that various things had taken on. I could see from the expressions on the faces around me that they did not see any metamorphosis in the lamp shades and moreover, didn't "want" to. A sour note! They were terribly disturbed at my insistence that everything had changed, that this time the drug had accomplished more than a dream. I could see they had no intention of joining me.
But I douldn't care less. Exuberant and overjoyed, I ran from the house, down the front steps, out into the street, flashed over three blocks in a matter of seconds, vaulted a fence, made a tremendously sprightly crossing of the highway--during which it seemed that traffic slowed and stopped so I could make my way--and ran over to the riverbank of the Charles to work out my ecstasy with somersaults on the grass.
I'd never experienced anything such as this. Even the insects sang for me in a multitudinous chorus. The range of my vision was vastly expanded. I couls see hundreds and hundreds of miles into the heavens and tier upon tier of cumulus clouds. After an hour of such unbounded bliss, I was totally exhausted from the mad runnings of my mind, as it vaulted head over heels beyond the limits of ordinary human thought. I grew too tired to think. Indeed, I have never been more enervated. After a long day's mountain climb, I always had a reserve charge of energy to make the final scramble over the last few rocks to the summit. But now I was completely drained.
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*editor's note: If a long cold-water extraction is done and a "soapy stringy" type of material is present in the water--I have read that this can be re-filtered out of the water with a wire strainer or similar to possibly arrive at near zero nausea. Pineal would often filter over and over up to 10 times with coffee filters to get it as clean as possible.
*editor's note: hermes mentioned that one of the only other persons that he knew of that bothered to do a cold-water extraction on the forum was pineal. Both as you can tell had excellent near nausea-free psychedelic experiences. Hermes would cold soak for around 30 minutes, and pineal would cold soak for around 5 to 10 minutes.
*editors note: In swim's part of the world, walmart has stopped carrying the seeds and the K-marts have mostly gone out of business (Sept 2006). If a particular batch of seeds has little to no effects, best to look into another brand and check date or freshness, how the seeds were stored--if stored in heat could have lessened the seeds effects, best results may come from seeds grown and harvested the same or previous season, stored in cool environment, etc. Check for prescence of extracted LSA amides with a blacklight (should glow bright blue) if final extract is a concentrated solution.
*Many thanks to all of you who have written me with your comments or described your trips for others to view.
QUOTE from Jonathan Ott "Pharmacotheon": "Ololiuhqui was far more prominent as an entheogen here in Mesoamerica than those mushrooms; the mushrooms are mentioned only here and there by a few competent chroniclers; yet almost an entire book was devoted to denouncing mainly the ololiuhqui idolatry. The annals of the Inquisition contain many times more autos de fe for ololiuhqui than for mushrooms.
QUOTE from hermes (lycaeum March 2003) on morning glory visuals & strength:
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Depending on seed quality, you should get some weak to decent effects from 8 grams, like mild reality bending, marked enhancement of aesthetic perception, insights, weak open eye visuals, moderate but subtle closed eye visuals (especially with music). I find that more satisfactory results are achieved with more seeds, like 14 grams or more. This much is needed to enter truly psychedelic territory. I wouldn't recommend this much if you haven't tried lower doses with the same seeds and method, however. LSA can cause significant vasoconstriction, causing restricted blood circulation to extremities. Make sure that your toes don't get numb or tingly on 8 or so grams first. And don't mix with other vasoconstrictives, like ephedrine or caffiene.
I usually just measure by Burpee bags. These are 1.8 grams each. I have used anything ranging from 3 to 12 of these. Strangely, the 12 bag trip was relatively weak. They must have been some old seeds. My strongest experience ever with MG seeds was with the Martha Stewart brand from K-Mart.
I had strong 4D lattice-like open eye visuals and warping and melting of furniture with only 400 seeds. There are about 32-36 seeds to a gram. The Martha Stewarts are more expensive than the Burpees. They are like $1.30 a bag or something close to that for a 1.2 gram bag. The Burpees are something like $0.88 a bag and each bag has 1.8 grams. That's $2.05 a gram for Martha Stewart seeds and $0.92 a gram for Burpee seeds. It seems to be a trade off.
My favorite way to go about this is to first wash the whole seeds in a bowl with a little water and a very small amount of liquid handsoap. I slosh them around and rub them a bit in the soapy water (not too long--could reduce potency). I then rinse them good with cold water in one of those screen vegetable strainers. This is intended to wash off any fungicide or other adulterants. I then dry the seeds well with paper towels. Then I grind the seeds in coffee grinder to a fairly fine consistency, but not to the point of being powder. The hulls should remain somewhat course, while the lighter colored inner stuff is pretty much powder. I then put this stuff into one or several empty tea bags. Don't overfill one. If the bags are small, use several. Next, put the bag(s) into a full glass of cold distilled water and use a spoon to press on them and make sure they are well-saturated with water. Let sit for 10 minutes in a cool dark place. Use spoon to squeeze and agitate the bag against side of glass some more to get more stuff out. Don't press too hard or you will break the bag and get seed mush into the water, which is undesireable. Leave for 10 more minutes. Squeeze again. Leave for 10 minutes. Squeeze. Remove bags after squeezing most of the water from them into the glass. You can suck on the bags if you want to get more stuff. I don't generally do this. Discard bags. Drink water. Get yourself into the mood with some good music and wait for effects. You might want to take a little ginger if you are worried about nausea. Usually I don't get any, but sometimes there is a little, probably partly from pre-trip anticipation anxiety.
QUOTE (report) from hermes:
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My favorite thing to do while on LSA is to play a musical instrument (guitar, didgeridoo, drums) or paint or do something meditative like that while I am coming up. Don't watch TV. It puts the wrong kinds of thoughts in your head and can result in a bad trip. When I am getting into it pretty well, I retire to the bedroom and turn off the lights and put on some good quality headphones with good music. This results in fantastic visuals unlike anything you have ever imagined if you have never used a good psychedelic before. I see amazing three and seemingly four-dimensional shapes morphing and bifurcating. Often I get religious and esoteric themed visuals, like fractal cherub wings and winged eyes like those in some of Alex Grey's work. Eyes are all over everything! I see pyramids and sphinxes and Gigeresque biomechanical forms. I see amazing geometric lattice structures. I watch mathematical space-filling algorithms doing their thing. I also find that I can control the imagery by an act of will. Anything I intend to visualize comes forth and then goes beyond what I had imagined and then transforms into something else. This is great for artists! I could swear that on one occasion while listening to Mozart's Requiem, Heaven itself opened up inside my skull! It was incredible! OH, THE BEAUTY! I saw glorious celestial architecture and there were seraphs singing along with the chorus in the music. I just can't even begin to describe what this was like. I had tears streaming down my face. I was in the highest ecstacy I have ever known. And all of this with a nothing more than a good mindset, good music, and only about 500 seeds. I'll never forget it. It was probably all in my imagination, programmed by my Catholic upbringing. I don't know and don't really care where it came from. It was the most beautiful thing I have ever experienced, and I still feel great joy when I think of it. I felt so whole!
On other occasions with LSA (I took it while in a less than ideal mind state), I felt like I went to Hell. Everything was empty and awful and terrifying and lonely. I felt like there were worms boring through my brain, eating it. I was a hole. That is the only way to describe it. I felt vacuous. I trembled with horror. Everything felt so incredibly meaningless.
I hope your experiences will take you to nice places. Be careful. Your brain is not a toy. Consider yourself warned.
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QUOTE from hermes:
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For me, they seem to be similar in both duration and effect. The only real difference I notice is that LSA is a little more lethargic, at least in the early phase of the trip. LSD is a bit more speedy. With LSA, I am much more able to lay around or focus on one task like painting. I also noticed that it is possible to go to sleep while still tripping on LSA, which is impossible with LSD. I slept once on LSA and had incredibly visual dreams! These were the most beautiful visuals I have ever seen under any circumstances. I dreamt that I was being shown the entire unfoldment of the universe, with the evolution of man, and it was all represented on this incredible spinning wheel. It was indescribable. I want to go to sleep on LSA again and attempt to have a lucid dream. That would be nothing short of amazing!
Anyway, my LSA trips last 10-12 hours or so, with slight effects that linger for another 24 hours or so. And I usually feel something like an afterglow for a week or so afterwards. During this period, I am much more creative than usual and happier too. I also notice that colors look slightly more pronounced for a week or so in a very LSA specific way. I never noticed this on LSD.
Comfortably_Numb asked where I buy my seeds from. K-mart and Wal Mart have been typical sources. The most powerful brand of seeds that I ever tried were the Martha Stewart brand from K-Mart (I had strong effects, with good open eye visuals, on only 300 seeds! I used a water extraction with some added lemon juice on this occasion. I do not know if this helped). Burpee seeds work well too, but didn't seem as potent as the Martha Stewart brand. The Burpee seeds are less expensive. I have never tried bulk seeds. As far as I know, the ones that I tried didn't have any pesticides. Nothing was mentioned on the package that would indicate this. I did always wash the seeds just in case, however.
If anyone tries this, inform us about the results. Tell me if the tea-bag method worked for you.
If the taste bothers you, you can add something to the water, but I wouldn't guarantee that it will not reduce potency. The taste isn't that bad. Just drink it fast.
Slimey, in order to get a crystalline product, you would have to go even further than the organic solvent/alcohol extraction. But the crude result that this method gives is good enough. You can just put the product in gel caps or something. With the water extraction, it is very difficult to evaporate the water without adding heat or having long term exposure. If you had a strong vacuum chamber, you could evaporate the water cold and leave behind the residue. That is the only good reason to use the organic solvent/alcohol extraction, to evaporate the alcohol and leave a solid product. But if you are just going to consume it immediately, why bother? Just drink the water. The taste is a small price to pay. And it isn't all that bad anyway. Put some sugar in it or something! Just don't make coffee out of it!
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QUOTE from hermes:
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Thank you Kosmo, for demonstrating that I do know what I am talking about when it comes to Morning Glory seeds! How strong was your experience? 750 seeds should have given a medium level trip if you extracted them well and they were potent seeds. Did you have any noticeable visual effects, with eyes closed or open? Did you do Morning Glories alone? I look forward to reading your report!
You see, people? He said, "no nausea!" Now notice that all the people who eat the seeds directly or extract poorly get sick as hell. Why someone would insist on getting sick just to get slightly more LSA out of a given quantity of seeds is beyond me. You will not get a 100% yield this way, but you can just add more seedsn and they are not very expensive, even in the seed packets.
So, Kosmo, after doing it this way, would you see any reason to do it any other way? It is simple and fast, isn't it? Can you possibly understand why so many people refuse to follow my advice? I sure can't. And it didn't taste too bad, did it?
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QUOTE from hermes:
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Was it sitting in a light place? Light will do the LSA harm.
I really don't know if or how much LSA would be destroyed by oxidation when it has been sitting in oxygenated water for a few hours. The most likely thing is that the seeds were short in quantity or potency, or the tea bags were not squeezed and agitated enough. The biggest reason to keep the extraction short is to avoid extracting more than the desired alkaloids and also for convenience. Were the seeds black? Were they Heavenly Blues? How many did you use? Were they this year's crop? Did you use distilled water?
The hardest thing to control is the freshness and potency of the seeds. If you buy the bulk kind, who the hell knows how old they are? The ones that come in packets are usually dated, if I remember right. I'll have to go look. And who knows where the seeds have been stored throughout their entire existence? Someone could have left them in a hot place for a time, which would annihilate the LSA.
But without at least the dosage, I can't begin to tell you why the effects were so weak.
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QUOTE from hermes:
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Undertow, you are not doing something right. If you perform a proper extraction using good seeds (and a large enough quantity), you will get strong psychedelic effects and no nausea without requiring any other substances.
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QUOTE from hermes:
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So, what sort of comparison would you now make between LSD and LSA? In my experience, they are difficult to tell apart. The taste in my mouth and the physical energy level are the only things that seem different. LSD causes a "taste hallucination" that resembles rusty iron, while LSA causes a taste somewhat like bee pollen. Also, LSA has a much more lethargic feel, at least in the early portion of the trip. Other than that, they are the same for me. Really, it seems like LSA is a little more visual for me for a given amount of mind alteration.
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QUOTE from hermes:
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What is it with eyes anyhow? Does anyone else see eyes filling their CEVs or OEVs? I see eyes, eyes in triangles, wings, eyes in triangles with wings, cherubim, seraphim, pyramids, pyramids with wings and eyes and caducea, utchats, lions, owls, cobras, and generally anything related to the Western Mystery Tradition. The first great "vision" I saw was while on Morning Glories and listening to Mozart's Requiem. When the Lacrimosa began, I saw incredible Angelic forms and felt this incredible awe and love for existence. I think I stole a glimpse of the Beautific Vision itself. I cried and sobbed for hours, in pure ecstacy. I knew, however, that I only encountered the very periphery of the "Inner Kingdom," since the cherubs revealed neither their hands nor their faces, just three pairs of wings. I had never seen them before this, in religious paintings or otherwise. I had not read the bible or anything before this had happened. Afterwards, upon doing a bit of research, I saw that they are commonly encountered by mystics of various cultures, especially in the West. In particular, I saw them in a book on Islamic architecture, painted on the ceiling of a Mosque. These looked incredibly similar to those I saw, only very washed out and a far cry from the real thing. These things just can't be painted. They have to be experienced.
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QUOTE from hermes:
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You want to surround yourself with nice, comforting things, things that make you feel safe. Just the slightest threat can
trigger obsessive feedback loops of paranoia. Although, this paranoia has seemed more prevalent for me on psilocybin than on LSA or LSD. Usually with LSA or LSD, I become less fearful than usual, which can be dangerous!
It always seems to me that with LSA, the highly visual phase is late in the session, long after body phase and introspective phase. I wonder if the occipital lobe (visual cortex if I am not mistaken) of the brain is one of the last regions of the brain through which the blood passes.
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QUOTE from hermes:
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"creation-in-us," where do you get this crap? You are all backwards. I have YEARS of experience with Morning Glories, i.e. tlitlitzin, and I know that LSA IS WATER SOLUBLE! I can show the MERCK reference if you want. You drink the water and trash the pulp! You are going to poison people with your advice! All the bad stuff is nonpolar and tends to remain in the pulp when the polar LSA is extracted with water. Do a little research will ya? Kids these days...
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QUOTE (trip report) from EndlessSky79 (lycaeum April 2006):
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This was my third time taking Morning Glory. I usually take it in a Shamanic context, grinding the seeds in the dawn, allowing the pulp to soak in cool water for three days, then ritually drinking the strained liquid. Well, my experience the other night was amazing....and not at all what I expected.
Background: Im a chronic pain patient, experienced with LSD, opiates, and in general view psychedelics as mind expanding allies...okay- onto the good stuff.
After pretty much a week of living hell due to my pain and Ultram (which does nothing), I decided that three nights ago, I needed a vacation. Not a little DXM vacation (I don't take much DXM on the scale- usually just enough to reach a lower '2nd' plateau...a lot like being drunk and stoned at the same time, but less disorienting). I needed something strong which wouldn't hurt my liver, which is damaged, and would bring me positive energy.
After deliberating, and a bit of prayer, I decided to take Morning Glory seeds and see where the night took me. At 9pm I took an anti-nausea pill in preparation for my journey. Little did I know what I was in for. I powdered up 200 seeds in the ubiquitous coffee grinder, and painstakingly transfered the powder (black shell husk fragments were removed by hand) into gelatin capsules. By the time I was done, it was about 10pm, and I was ready to go. I swallowed down 12 capsules, and laid down waiting for the magickal seeds to take their effect. I told Tlitlitzen (the name the plant spirit gave me on a previous trip) that I just needed a beautiful trip, and if there was any knowledge I needed, it wouldn't hurt, but I primarily needed a mental vacation.
At 10:45 I started to feel a little nauseous, however, this feeling was quelled by the anti- nausea pill (well, something good has come of my liver problems). Usually about an hour after ingesting the seeds, I vomit much like Linda Blair in that horror classic we all know and love. Not this time, though!
As I laid back on the couch, gazing at the ceiling, it slowly began undulating, and gently morphing colors from light pink, to green, to blue, and then back, as though the ceiling was dancing. (The ceiling is white). I raised my right hand before my eyes, and it seemed as though in an instant my hand was aged to the point of a 90 year olds'- almost skeletal, and then back to normal. However, this reminder of my mortality didn't bother me at all. I felt comforted, as though a huge, warm blanket has been wrapped around my body on a cold winters' night. I felt as though nothing could harm me, that I was a part of the cycle of life, and that the journey ahead was going to be good. When I looked over at my husband's (Eli) 'Invader Zim' house (DVD special edition holder), I could see it seem to grow. The lights within the 'house' looked as though they were on, and I fancied that I saw shadows crossing in front of the window where people might walk. It was an interesting hallucination.
At around 11:30, I got up to use the bathroom, however, my balance was slighly off. Eli had been giving me a gentle footrub, and my feet and hands were cold under the blue and white striped blanket which I had draped over myself. Unfortunately, nature called, so I got up to go to the restroom.
Now, according to traditional research and chemical knowledge, the active ingredient in MG seeds is LSA- derived from ergot alkaloids. The whole seeds, when consumed without any sort of distillation or purification process (such as cold water extraction) are supposed to produce some very unpleasant side effects. The majority of the ergot alkaloids which cause unpleasant side effects such as 'fish eye' vision and nausea are contained in the outer hull- most of which I had picked out- so I was pleasantly surprised at the smoothness of the ride so far. As I sat in the bathroom, the walls on the shower melted together in gentle pastel patterns- mirroring the ceiling earlier. I was completely enchanted by a body wash container that has a picture of lavender on it, as the lavender picture seemed to grow vines, and the flowers seemed to expand gently. I was sad to leave the bathroom, but happy to get back to Eli.
On my return to the comfort of the couch, I decided to take 3 balloons of nitrous oxide in order to facilitate the experience. (The two chemicals are very synergistic). Eli, despite the fact that he doesn't like nitrous, was kind enough to monitor me, and kept track of the time between when I first started to inhale the gas, and when I lost conscious control of my body. I laid back, and raised my left foot slightly. When the foot dropped- I'd be out. I cranked up the 'Magic carpet ride' remix by Fatboy Slim on my I-Pod, and brought the balloon to my lips. It seemed like forever for me, however, it was in reality about 50 seconds before I actually dropped my foot.
I was floating in a supremely peaceful darkness, feeling the presence of the feminine and masculine divine. I laughed while I was under, (I think sheerly from the joy of the feeling of being so unconditionally loved and accepted.) I then thought of Eli, and how much joy he gave me- then I floated back to my body, which was mercifully free of pain for a time, and told him how much I loved him. My second balloon caused beautiful fractal patterns (CEVs- Closed Eye Visuals) behind my eyelids. Again I felt that overwhelming presence, and was unable to communicate to Eli the sheer wonder of the experience. When I came back, the MG was very much accentuated by the nitrous oxide, and everywhere I looked, bookshelves were undulating. The blue light from a lamp we'd liberated from the dumpster the day before seemed to have rubbed off on the light switch across the rooom- a full visual hallucination.
When I closed my eyes, I could still feel the pull towards the divine space I'd felt earlier, and I tried to explore my feelings on it when I realized (was told, directed, or my mind decided it would be better) that I should focus on Eli. He is such an important, amazing part of my life.
The feeling and visuals I was experiencing can only be likened to the descriptions I've heard of people who take LSD and Ecstasy at the same time. I felt completely open- yet wasn't babbling. (At least, I don't believe I was, and Eli certainly wasnt looking at me in horror, so I assumed all was good.) I proceeded to have a long talk with Eli about my pain and how it's been affecting our relationship. He told me about many things he'd been thinking about. I am very glad we had that conversation.
At around 1ish or so, Eli went to bed. I decided to join him, and although I could see amazing interplays between the lights and the shadows in the bedroom, I closed my eyes and focused on the warmth of him. The way he smelled, the feeling of our cheeks and lips touching. We talked for a while, softly, and we held each other while talking about our concerns for the future- and decided that we would do our best to make things work. He said that he couldn't imagine a life without me, and I realized that the statement was true of me too. I wouldn't want to live life without him to share it with me. I want him by me every step of the way. We held each other in the dark for a time, until I realized I wouldn't be able to sleep....so I kissed him goodnight and went out to the family room.
Now, I misplaced my 'trip toy' of a fan which makes pretty light patterns, however, I turned on Eli's 'Lightning' blue lamp, and watched as the lightning seemed to ark all over the room, turning from bright blue to electric green and soft pink. I turned on the Beatles, and Magickal Mystery tour came on. I enjoyed the Beatles until a desire siezed me to go outside. I snuck back into the bedroom, for sweats, a Rainbow Brite sweatshirt, and my long 'pimp jacket'. When brought into the light of the room, the 'pimp jacket' seemed to take on a life of its own- changing textures and shapes- fascinating me with the never ending fluctuations of possibilities emerging from what a few hours before has been a simple coat. I put the coat on, and walked outside, closing the door.
There was a light breeze blowing, and as I looked up, I saw the firt 'true' hallucinations I've ever experienced. The stars seemed to multiply, and spiral softly down from the velvet sky, swirling and dancing in a rhythm that seemed to encompass all of nature. The 'shooting stars were so captivating that I had to sit on the sidewalk in awe. The bushes all around me constantly changed shapes and forms- going from rich earthy green, to a lighter color- the color of spring. The air smelled sharp, rich- full of growing things. I had to walk around and see more.
As I walked slowly around the apartment, the streetlamps were beacons shining out in the night. The light which is usually bright yellow pulsed between yellow, bright purple, and gentle blue, seeming to encourage me to come and stare at it- to touch the rays that looked so real. The stoplight on the street had 3 images which slowly swirled around each other.
The pine trees swayed and changed shape. The clouds above me were forming fantastic images (and I'm sure there weren't any clouds in the sky at the time). I saw dragons, nymphs, birds, all things from myth and fairy tale. I felt as though I was walking the line between where fantasy and reality meet, and it was wonderful. Despite all my prior experiences with good LSD, nothing even came CLOSE to this. I realized I should probably go inside, so I went back to the 'lightning lamp' and was mesmerized by the Mamas and the Papas while watching the colors pulse, and the bookshelves along the walls change shape slowly and majestically. One second they reached the ceiling- the next, they seemed two feet tall. My own feet seemed miles away. My statue of Ganesha danced, holding his tusk out, and growed an extra set of arms which seemed to hold a knife, a book, a flute, and an incense holder, which gently poured smoke out to vanish into thin air.
Finally, around 5am, the hallucinations were at a managable level (just vague undulations of the ground and halos around lights), so I decided to drive to the store. I made sure I was safe to drive by taking a test run around the parking lot. Sure enough, I was alert, and drove perfectly. Off I went to Rite Aid to get some chocolate! =)
With my booty in hand, when I walked out into the parking lot, I closed my eyes and recalled the feeling of the nitrous and the LSA. When I opened my eyes, the shadows seemed to play with each other and me in the parking lot- stretching out for space, then retreating, only to come back again- like a tide of soft blackness. I knew I had to go to the ocean to say a proper goodbye to my trip. The drive over the hill was uneventful. I almost thought the drug had worn off- although- if I had been tripping as hard as I had been a few hours beforehand, I never would have touched my keys.
I arrived at the ocean near dawn. I felt pulled to the waves- which sparkled- and suddenly, my trip was brought back full force. I felt like my old self again- the wide eyed innocent before the world intruded on my intrinsically optimistic beliefs. I walked out to the ocean, watching the ebb and flow of the waves, playing tag with the white, shining tide, and watching the stars glitter and occasionally multiply to form starbursts- my own private fireworks.
After a half hour, I called the Dennys by my house. My body needed food and rest in that order.
As I drove home, I was still enchanted by the interplay of shadow and light, but it didn't distract me in the least. I succcessfully bought my Moons over My Hammy and went straight home, goodies in hand. Once home, I had a few bites of sandwich, a rootbeer freeze, and a few chocolate truffles. The sun had come up, and so I took a few valium to ensure sleep. I also took hydrocodone- 40 mg. It slowly came over me in waves, and while watching the walls gently undulate and the television flicker cartoons, I drifted off into the Wonderland of my own mind.
I awoke at 1pm, feeling more rested than I have in a month. My pain level was down to a 6, and the memory and feeling of the night before stayed with me. Unfortunately, my eyes were still dilated, and I had a Drs appt at 3.
The bottom line is that Morning Glory is now one of my strongest allies. He is strong and a good teacher when I need him to be, and a generous tour guide through my imagination when I need a break.
I hope you all have a wonderful day. I can't remember a time when I last felt so free, myself, and so unburdened by cares and worries. It was truly amongst the best nights of my life.
Edit note: Eli came out at 8am, to find me completely knocked out on the couch. Apparently I still had the remote in my hand, with my arm fully extended. He tried to put my arm back so I could rest better, but apparently I wasn't in to moving. Oh- and I slept amazingly well the next night as well- with dreams I am sure were influenced by the LSA. Thank you Tlitliten!
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QUOTE from EndlessSky79:
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I was very surprised at the intensity of the experience as well! I've never experienced anything like it in my life..... I believe the fact that I work with the plant as a Shamanic ally usually plus the addition of the nitrous oxide literally threw my trip up onto the roof, whereas I expected a mildly hallucinogenic, mellow time. Also- every other time I've taken the seeds, I've ground them just as well, but thrown up the cold water extraction after an hour. Between the anti-nausea pill and the gelatin capsules, I believe it gave my body time to actually digest the whole amount of LSA. I will be repeating the experience with about 400 seeds after a few weeks. My brain definitely needs a rest, as does my body. =) Thanks for the welcome! I look forward to many more interesting experiences and reports while I'm here.
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QUOTE from EndlessSky79:
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Starshadow-
I so sympathize with the nausea problem...being ill sucks. Have you tried raw ginger? Candied ginger from Trader **** works wonders for regular nausea, as does 1 tsp freshly ground ginger put into a geletin capsule).
Now for your question: I was on compazine (25mg) for a while, but then suffered a phenothiazine reaction (apparently this class of meds can cause the pheno. reaction at ANY time- and after that you can never take them ever again as the seize will be worse.)
I was then put on Zofran- 8mg. Zofran made my MG experience possible. It works quite well....then, they give it to chemo patients, so it better ::grins::. Im sure your doc will try you on phenergan first (it's common and cheap) or compazine (see above comment about being common and cheap). =) Ginger (raw) is not, in my experience, strong enough to fight the nausea factor of MG, much the pity.
Thank you for noticing my description of feelings- for me, a trip isn't just 'pretty colors', even when I'm just going into it for recreational purposes.....I still get some level of spiritual work done. Besides, it wouldn't be a complete report without emotional status- enough people report freak outs. We need some good energy in the entheogen community!
As for the hull, once one grinds Morning Glory seeds in a coffee grinder (oh- be sure to grind in short bursts. LSA is VERY sensitive to heat, and it will be destroyed at much over room temperature.), you will be left with white powder (the main bulk), smaller tanish granules (the bulk that wasn't able to be powdered), and black bits- the husk. These bits are fairly easily picked out by hand. =) One doesn't even need to remove all of it- just the removal of the larger chunks was enough to make this trip amazing...but you read that already.
I hope your cat has beautiful visions. =) And I hope I didn't type so much that you got bored reading my response! Blessings!
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QUOTE from Shaganoz (shroomery):
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hm i find LSA just as good, if not even better, than as LSD. It's become my favorite psychedelic. And to whoever said he doubted the other guy hallucinated his balls off... sounds like you havnt had a real Morning glory trip and really SEEN its GLORY! I know for a FACT you can hallucinate pretty wild, I've seen the most remarkable things on LSA. True hardcore hallucinations, and to me it compares greatly with LSD. I usually just munch down the seeds raw, chew them very well and swallow. It may upset your stomach making you puke somewhat in the trip, but then it gets all fine again. I am however working on extractions these days to compare with raw seeds ingestions. My typical dose is around 800-1000 seeds, the most I have done was 1500 and then i tripped for 2 days straight. With hardcore hallucinations.
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QUOTE from pineal (lycaeum):
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prolix: that's great, i'm glad it worked for ya.
analog: yeah, i second everything you said there, man. For me, along with the euphoric sedated feeling, the visuals are freakin beautiful. Open-eyed, things do the melty washy visuals you get from this type of chemical, and like prolix said, your ability to imagine things and whatnot is definitely increased. And music sounds fantastic. good stuff.
pineal
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QUOTE from pineal:
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wow. I've never heard of it being sold on the street at all. I've found nobody even knows what the fuck lsa is. But i have found LSA to be sedative by nature, period, and that's what's been the biggest difference between LSA and LSD for me. Lsd's got that high-strung tweaky aspect to it, while lsa feels very sedating, almost mind-numbing, but thought stimulating at the same time.
And prolixity, post and let me know how it goes. I've done it along with 2 friends of mine, and it's worked for us. In fact the one time i did it using that prep method had to have been the best lsa trip so far. Hope it works well for you, man.
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QUOTE from pineal:
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As for chewing: i did this the first time i did MG, but damn the nausea was fucking unbearable. On subsequent trips until i learned this prep i'd just grind the seeds and encapsulate them, and horrendous nausea would ensue every time. And after a couple times of this i could just look at morning glory seeds and immediately feel ill. Ugghhhh...
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QUOTE from pineal:
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You won't find lsa on the street. No way...You'll find acid, sure...i've found when you just grind up the seeds and consume, my god the nausea is just too horrible. but here's a prep i've used, and i'll admit, when i was told how to do this, i was skeptical, but it really works.
1. go get your desired amount of morning glory seeds (i've found the perfect amount for my dog is 5 1.5g packets from let's say...home depot) and grind them up
2. put ground seeds in a glass, or some sort of see through container and juust cover with water
3. take the total volume (seeds+water) and add that much more water, stir vigorously
4. let it sit for NO MORE THAN 5 MINUTES. After five minutes or so, you're extracting all the crap...so stir about halfway through that.
5. filter the water through a shirt or something, to get the mush out
6. now filter with coffee filters over and over and over again, until your mind is numb from filtering. The more you filter, the less nausea.
7. now take the lsa juice and pour it into a full glass of Orange Juice. honest to god you won't taste it. gulp it down and you'll have a good clean trip, no nausea, for 6+ hours.
pineal
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QUOTE from undertowed_ (lycaeum April 2002):
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i took 5 packs of burpee heavenly blue... more like 4 or 4 1/2... i left a small pile cause i couldnt stomache it anymore... chewed a chocolate-chip cookie... dumped some seeds in the mouth... put another cookie in and chewed without gagging... repeate about 5 times... just the thought of the nausea the first time i did them makes me gag... almost right afterwards i smoked some grass and almost instantly i felt the effects.
this trip was different... the first hard lsa trip i had that wasnt a bad trip. all pain disappears in this place... my friend was shoving a thumb-tack in my arm for about ten seconds before i laughed and said 'what are you doing to my arm'. the effects were VERY close to mdma... almost made me wonder if the roll i had was cut with lsa (could have been). the usual reoccuring visuals i have from psychedelics came out to play... my multi-colored starbursted arrow-heads and lightning bolts... but now there were tribal aztec patterns all around... and actual images... everything was intertwined... it felt like i was swimming in cool water... the most pleasant thing i've ever felt... astounding chills all over the body... NO nausea... NO cramping or pain... 100% ecstasy.
i had a perma-grin... i found myself laughing uncontrollably at simple things... i sometimes found myself yelling very loud without realizing it... i noticed my friend meditating and decided to join in... i taught him how to work the astral doorways... we met in the astral realm in his apartment... i wanted to show him everything i could (he's against psychedelics... he's not mentally stable... so i wanted to give him a glimpse at 'the truth')... he nodded out... as soon as i nodded out he jumped up and yelled 'whoa... the entire room just turned black'... 'black with a phosphorescent-green outline?' i replied... 'yes... what was that' he said... 'that was me entering your world'... i said... he was shocked at the power i had in this place... i've been accustomed to it for years... we both nodded out... i appeared to him as a monk... i was through the doorway in seconds flat leaving him still on the couch... he said i disappeared insantly... all that was left of me was a star he picked up and looked at... he couldn't follow... he doesnt yet know how to enter a conscious dream realm... only a conscious dream of this world.
i was standing on an island... there was a round marble platform with 7 marble pillars... in the middle was a fountain spraying colors, sounds, emotions, words, feelings... truths... i bathed in it... a beam shot out of it... i saw the sun and the planets and the stars all in the light of day... this was my truth... i was teaching what this meant to a student in my dream... somebody else on the astral plane... i was their guide... i felt so high... i've encountered many guides on my astral journeys... this was the first time i was a guide to someone else in the realm... it felt better than i can explain... i pointed to the sun and said 'on earth as it is in heaven' i pointed to his head and said 'this is your truth'... then i became a tree... my branches were my ascending family... my roots were my descendants... my knowlege was my fruit... i nourished his soul with my fruit... i woke... everyone was looking at me... i was out for 5 minutes... humming and nodding... though i have no recollection of anything physical... sounds... body... anything.
i was astounded... all i could say was 'i... think... i was just in the garden of eden'...
we tried it once more, this time i summoned a dragon to take my friend with me... but the force of the dragon entering the room just pushed him out the front door of his apartment into the street... he did see the dragon outside of the window... but he didn't know i summoned it... he thought it was just a random thing... it's quite a phenomenon for two people to experience the same events in the astral realm... i was standing at a crossroads of life and death... to show my friend those parts of his mind... i asked him which path to choose... but he was gone... we woke and realized he couldn't keep up with my psyche so we stopped before we both exhausted our minds... lit up some more grass.
the rest of the night was spent laughing... swaying... running down halways wearing an american flag and a cowboy hat shooting 'spiders' with a joystick...
the peak...
i was lying on my friends bed staring at the ceiling... it's all bumpy and grainy... it started to sway like water... everything looked like water... i saw patterns within it... flowers... tribesmen... monkeys... insects... animal faces... it was amazing... then i saw a gigantic spider appear out of the wall... crawl to the center of the ceiling... stop... then (with eyes open) the entire room faded away to black... the gradiants on the ceiling reappeared in green... they were swaying... spiraling... moving... it was the most profound hallucination i've -ever- had... i simply couldn't speak afterwards... my jaw just dropped... eyes shot open wide... and a tear ran down my face while i repeated uncontrollably 'things like this once were not possible... things like this once were not possible...'... then i went home...
small peak at 3 hours... large peak at 5... effects lasted an hour into the next day... til 1 pm ( i ate them at 1 am )... some major euphoria the next day from how amazing the night was... still some psychological effects felt after grass smoked... just... burnt today... two days later.
all i have to say is... DO THESE... it's the most amazing psychedelic when mixed with pot... and it's legal... i had so many visuals and such a good body-buzz... amazing euphoria... i just with the ingestion process wasn't so tedious... i would have made a tea but had nothing to crush them with.
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QUOTE from Henry Bass, the book "tripping", 2000, page 149:
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Nothing remotely prepared me for the force of my final trip. One day, just before noon, I ingested some seeds with several friends, some who also partook and some who were there as observers or caretakers. We were lounging around the Manor, the ironic name we'd given to a seedy but spacious apartment near Harvard's Dunster House. After a while, I became sick and vomited so copiously I worried that the effect might be lost. I went to my bedroom and lay down and relaxed with my nausea.
Soon I found myself completely recovered, looking at a vast aquarium in the bottom of a glass of water. I remained fascinated with this for about an hour and then suddenly realized that what I was seeing had none of the attributes of a hallucination or dream. What I saw was indistinguishable from reality.
Excited, I ran into the kitchen and saw that someone had replaced my white Japanese lamp shades with bright red ones. This really shook me up, since it was "not" a hallucination. This was real, man! I felt completely sober and alert, while so many things around me had changed. My companions rushed in to see what all the ruckus was about, and I pointed out the red lamp shades, the wooden table that had become quartzlike, and all the new luster and colors that various things had taken on. I could see from the expressions on the faces around me that they did not see any metamorphosis in the lamp shades and moreover, didn't "want" to. A sour note! They were terribly disturbed at my insistence that everything had changed, that this time the drug had accomplished more than a dream. I could see they had no intention of joining me.
But I douldn't care less. Exuberant and overjoyed, I ran from the house, down the front steps, out into the street, flashed over three blocks in a matter of seconds, vaulted a fence, made a tremendously sprightly crossing of the highway--during which it seemed that traffic slowed and stopped so I could make my way--and ran over to the riverbank of the Charles to work out my ecstasy with somersaults on the grass.
I'd never experienced anything such as this. Even the insects sang for me in a multitudinous chorus. The range of my vision was vastly expanded. I couls see hundreds and hundreds of miles into the heavens and tier upon tier of cumulus clouds. After an hour of such unbounded bliss, I was totally exhausted from the mad runnings of my mind, as it vaulted head over heels beyond the limits of ordinary human thought. I grew too tired to think. Indeed, I have never been more enervated. After a long day's mountain climb, I always had a reserve charge of energy to make the final scramble over the last few rocks to the summit. But now I was completely drained.
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*editor's note: If a long cold-water extraction is done and a "soapy stringy" type of material is present in the water--I have read that this can be re-filtered out of the water with a wire strainer or similar to possibly arrive at near zero nausea. Pineal would often filter over and over up to 10 times with coffee filters to get it as clean as possible.
*editor's note: hermes mentioned that one of the only other persons that he knew of that bothered to do a cold-water extraction on the forum was pineal. Both as you can tell had excellent near nausea-free psychedelic experiences. Hermes would cold soak for around 30 minutes, and pineal would cold soak for around 5 to 10 minutes.
*editors note: In swim's part of the world, walmart has stopped carrying the seeds and the K-marts have mostly gone out of business (Sept 2006). If a particular batch of seeds has little to no effects, best to look into another brand and check date or freshness, how the seeds were stored--if stored in heat could have lessened the seeds effects, best results may come from seeds grown and harvested the same or previous season, stored in cool environment, etc. Check for prescence of extracted LSA amides with a blacklight (should glow bright blue) if final extract is a concentrated solution.
*Many thanks to all of you who have written me with your comments or described your trips for others to view.
QUOTE from Jonathan Ott "Pharmacotheon": "Ololiuhqui was far more prominent as an entheogen here in Mesoamerica than those mushrooms; the mushrooms are mentioned only here and there by a few competent chroniclers; yet almost an entire book was devoted to denouncing mainly the ololiuhqui idolatry. The annals of the Inquisition contain many times more autos de fe for ololiuhqui than for mushrooms.
#25
golly
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- Expired Member
- 6,205 posts
modapotato
Posted 17 September 2006 - 11:53 PM
Interesting read...! thanx...
#26
tregar
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- Free Member
- 1,336 posts
Mycotopiate
Posted 18 September 2006 - 10:03 AM
Thanks golly.
Last bit of valuable tips & insights to add:
QUOTE from hermes:
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Try more time and more water. The water was cold was it not? (Heat destroys LSA) Was it tap water? If so, the chlorine will destroy LSA. Try distilled water. Try also minimizing exposure of the stuff to light, as UV destroys LSA.
Also, sometimes the seeds you get are just plain weak. When did you buy them? Old seeds are less potent, I think, and during the winter, any available seeds are from last year's crop. Try some new ones come spring. Brand of seed seems to make a difference too. I seem to get better results from those grown in Holland. It usually says on the package where they are grown.
Also, I think you had too many filtration steps. Some of the LSA might have ended up in the T-shirt. It seems to me that when filtering mush, the most potent stuff is the slimy crap that stays in the filter unless you squeeze it through. I think a coffee filter is too fine and too weak to let this stuff through without breaking. Try filtering through a very fine, but strong, piece of cloth and wringing it, squeezing all the goo through. When you grind the seeds, don't grind them too fine. You want the dark outer shell-like part of the seed to remain in big enough pieces that it doesn't come through.
My favorite (because it is so simple) method is to grind the seeds and then put the powder in a big family size tea bag. I then place this into a glass of cold distilled water and squeeze the bag against the side of the glass periodically with a spoon. I usually extract for about 20 minutes like this, trying to get the most of the "milky" stuff from the bag without tearing the bag. If you want, after you do this and drink the water, you can even suck on the tea bag a little to get more out of it.
It seems to me that with longer extractions, more brown stuff (tannins?) gets into the water and at this point, I think the extraction has been too long. You want the off-white or slightly tan stuff, but not the darker brown stuff.
With this tea bag method, since you can't squeeze too much for fear of breaking the bag, the extractions seem to be slightly less potent, so you might need more seeds.
I find that I get moderate effects (great closed eye visuals, good insights, very mild open eye effects, powerful music enhancement) with about 10-14 grams of Burpee seeds.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*editor's note: buchner funnel/flask/filter paper might possibly be helpful if needed to remove brown tannins. Sync and Meteor at ayahuasca.com were successful using buchner fliter setups to remove tannins from their HCL ayahuasca extract solutions to arrive at a potent & clean nausea-free ayahuasca (hcl evaporated off) powder that was then re-constituted in water at a later date:
http://forums.ayahua...8&highlight=hcl
http://forums.ayahua...5&highlight=hcl
This method incited quite a bit of controversy from the traditionalist at the forum who insisted that nausea should remain in the brew, the use of scientific materials & methods in the extraction process, etc.
QUOTE from hermes:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Make sure, if you try it, that you understand dosage for each kind of seed. With Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds, 2-10 seeds can work well. With Morning Glory seeds, 100-1000 seeds work well. Morning Glory seeds contain far less LSA, but are better in my opinion, since HBW seeds contain cyanogenic glycosides and are harder to come by. As far as Morning Glories go, the Heavenly Blue variety seems to be the most potent, although different brands vary in potency. Flying Saucers and Pearly Gates are weaker, and are much lighter in color. The best seeds are black, while the worst are light tan.
Always start with a small dose your first time to get an idea of how potent they are. 100-200 Heavenly Blues is a good starter dose, which should give a mild psychedelic experience with some mild closed eye visuals. Higher doses are required for paradigm shifting experiences, however. Doses around 1000 seeds can send you to Heaven or Hell. Be careful.
Also, you want to be more careful of high doses on LSA than you would on LSD since LSA has vasoconstrictive effects. It contracts blood vessels and so reduces circulation, which can make you numb or tingly in the extremities, and through frequent use of high doses, can cause gangrene and even loss of extremities in extreme cases. In moderate and infrequent doses that are well-extracted, you have no need to worry about this. Just don't mix LSA with other vasoconstrictive substances like ephedrine.
Also, pregnant women should never use any ergot-like compound, like LSD or LSA, as these can cause uterine contractions and induce labor. Actually, the compound doctors use to induce labor is similar to LSD and LSA, and I believe it comes from ergot, just like LSA and, with a little synthesis, LSD.
Don't think the MG seeds thing is just a myth, like smoking banana peels. It really works and so is also a serious and potentially dangerous drug, just like any psychedelic. Treat it with the same respect with which you would treat LSD, psilocybin, or mescalin.
You shouldn't take ephedrine with ergot alkaloids, as it is a vasoconstrictive compound and will increase the vasoconstriction caused by the LSA and its close relatives. You especially shouldn't take LSA along with ephedrine and caffeine and nicotine, as all of these drugs have vasoconstrictive effects. Gangrene anyone?
In fact, I have experimented with this combo (cold tea from 800 MG seeds + 50mg ephedrine) before and it made my extremites go very nearly totally numb. I had lots of intense tingling in my hands and feet, as if they had gone to sleep. During part of the experience, I actually had pretty significant pain in the veins in my hands. Besides, I noticed that for some strange reason, the ephedrine seemed to diminish the desired effects of the LSA. Really, ephedrine is a nasty drug no matter how you use it.
It seems to me that you will get less lethargy and nausea if you perform the water extraction and get a purer product. Those nasty nonpolar compounds seem to contribute a great deal to the lethargy, nausea, headache, tunnel-vision, etc. With a good water extraction, I get none of that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE (Sept 2006) from hermes:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for visuals, I can't even begin to describe most of them. And my memory of them is likely not very accurate since it has been a few years. I tend to translate the experiences into a form that I can remember, as the real thing cannot be represented with sober thought. The visuals are beyond representation for the most part. All that I can give you are general themes.
I tended to see what seemed to be a four-dimensional lattice structure that appeared to be "behind" things, as if everyday reality were just a bright projection that obscured the real luminous hyperspatial structure behind it. Things tended to have eyes and feathers on them. Often what dominated the visuals was a winged eye in the center of my vision. Often, instead of wings, the eye was surrounded by colorful mandalic geometric forms or organic patterns like vegetation. But it was very common to see a serene eye in the focal point of my visual field with all sorts of fantastic forms radiating from it.
I also saw lots of angelic forms and gothic celestial architecture, particularly when listening to Mozart's Requiem on god headphones while tripping with my eyes closed.
I saw a vision of a pyramid, floating in the air, with the Eye of Ra on it, and with a sword piercing it from beneath. The sword was entwined with two cobras, as in a caduceus. And around this pyramid atop a snake entwined sword were four large luminous feathered wings, each one a distance out from each corner of the pyramid, coming from beneath the whole figure and reaching above it, almost as though the wings were guarding it. This whole figure has obvious occult meaning. I just wonder why the images are so typically Egyptian in character, at least for me.
I have found many things similar to my visions in the art of Alex Grey. The eyes all over things, the energy lattices, and so on, are all very similar to what I have seen. Have you seen Grey's painting called "Dying" ? That eye-filled vortex pattern is something that I have seen. It seemed to me at least while I was tripping that the winged eye that dominated things was my soul, maybe something like the "ba" of the Egyptians. I once saw it rising up to meet the light, as if I was underwater seeing the sun above the surface and my soul was flying up to join the sun.
I also once saw a great field of eggs, above which was a giant watchful eye, surveying the field of eggs. Some of the eggs were cracking, and the cracks were lined with peering eyes. Every exposed opening was filled with eyes. And I could see myself as one of these cracking eggs.
Another time, I saw myself as a red dragon, what seemed to be my true form in this hyperspace, flying up, seeking the Source.
All of the visuals have a quality that I can't describe well, verbally or with illustrations. Everything in that interior realm seems made of subtle energy and is luminous. It also often seems to have more than three spatial dimensions. It usually has a very detailed and very ordered structure, very mathematical, but arranged with a kind of structural harmony that is never seen in the physical world. The structures are beautiful beyond description. It is like visual music, with the sizes and positions shapes seemingly related by some kind of precise law that binds everything together in the most perfect harmony. The flawed forms of our world compared to those perfectly harmonious ones of that world are like the cacophany of a cocktail party compared to a symphony by Beethoven. Visual order like that has never been seen in physical form, in the natural world or in art. Fractal geometry sometimes resembles it, but still falls very short.
I did some drawing while on MG seeds and discovered some principles of visual harmony that I hope to fully realize one day and apply to painting. I think that it might be possible to revolutionize design with laws of structural harmony the way that Pythagoras revolutionized music with his discoveries of the harmonics of sound waves. I think that current visual art is probably like music before Pythagoras, with artists not understanding the laws of form and just basically working by trial and error to get something aesthetically pleasing. Primitive music was sometimes harmonious, but the real stuff was not unleashed until music theory was well understood.
Much of my MG trips have revolved around harmony one way or another. Playing a didgeridoo while tripping taught me a lot about sound waves and resonance. It was wonderful! It was all very Pythagorean and makes me wonder if the discoveries of Pythagoras were not aided by similar compounds, maybe through something like the eating of ergot infected grain. Plato has spoken of similar things and alludes to them with his Allegory of the Cave. And it is thought that he was an initiate in the Eleusinian Mysteries, which may have involved the ingestion of ergot infected grain.
Seeing this celestial realm, I suddenly realized where all of the great architects, designers, and artists were getting their inspiration from! I could especially see it in the sacred architecture of the great gothic cathedrals, the great mosques, Indian temples, and so on.
Check out these Indian temples, which are somewhat reminiscent of some of the subtle luminous structures seen on LSA and other compounds:
http://www5e.biglobe...ia1/india1.html
http://www.columbia..../lingaraja.html
But what really struck me is how this harmonious order is everywhere in our universe. The universe is governed by mathematical harmonies. They determine the structure of everything. The whole shebang seems to have harmony near its root.
I don't even know how to begin talking about what I got into there. I think that one reason that I have not yet gone back is that it was all a bit much. I still have not digested it! I could make a career out of the insights I gained in just a few minutes of any one of my more amazing trips.
As is probably obvious, I think that there is more to this than just chemicals and the brain.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*As far as Erowid reports, I found these two interesting due to the increased visual activity that resulted with lights turned off:
http://www.erowid.or...xp.php?ID=21080
and this combination report:
http://www.erowid.or...exp.php?ID=5316
Last bit of valuable tips & insights to add:
QUOTE from hermes:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Try more time and more water. The water was cold was it not? (Heat destroys LSA) Was it tap water? If so, the chlorine will destroy LSA. Try distilled water. Try also minimizing exposure of the stuff to light, as UV destroys LSA.
Also, sometimes the seeds you get are just plain weak. When did you buy them? Old seeds are less potent, I think, and during the winter, any available seeds are from last year's crop. Try some new ones come spring. Brand of seed seems to make a difference too. I seem to get better results from those grown in Holland. It usually says on the package where they are grown.
Also, I think you had too many filtration steps. Some of the LSA might have ended up in the T-shirt. It seems to me that when filtering mush, the most potent stuff is the slimy crap that stays in the filter unless you squeeze it through. I think a coffee filter is too fine and too weak to let this stuff through without breaking. Try filtering through a very fine, but strong, piece of cloth and wringing it, squeezing all the goo through. When you grind the seeds, don't grind them too fine. You want the dark outer shell-like part of the seed to remain in big enough pieces that it doesn't come through.
My favorite (because it is so simple) method is to grind the seeds and then put the powder in a big family size tea bag. I then place this into a glass of cold distilled water and squeeze the bag against the side of the glass periodically with a spoon. I usually extract for about 20 minutes like this, trying to get the most of the "milky" stuff from the bag without tearing the bag. If you want, after you do this and drink the water, you can even suck on the tea bag a little to get more out of it.
It seems to me that with longer extractions, more brown stuff (tannins?) gets into the water and at this point, I think the extraction has been too long. You want the off-white or slightly tan stuff, but not the darker brown stuff.
With this tea bag method, since you can't squeeze too much for fear of breaking the bag, the extractions seem to be slightly less potent, so you might need more seeds.
I find that I get moderate effects (great closed eye visuals, good insights, very mild open eye effects, powerful music enhancement) with about 10-14 grams of Burpee seeds.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*editor's note: buchner funnel/flask/filter paper might possibly be helpful if needed to remove brown tannins. Sync and Meteor at ayahuasca.com were successful using buchner fliter setups to remove tannins from their HCL ayahuasca extract solutions to arrive at a potent & clean nausea-free ayahuasca (hcl evaporated off) powder that was then re-constituted in water at a later date:
http://forums.ayahua...8&highlight=hcl
http://forums.ayahua...5&highlight=hcl
This method incited quite a bit of controversy from the traditionalist at the forum who insisted that nausea should remain in the brew, the use of scientific materials & methods in the extraction process, etc.
QUOTE from hermes:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Make sure, if you try it, that you understand dosage for each kind of seed. With Hawaiian Baby Woodrose seeds, 2-10 seeds can work well. With Morning Glory seeds, 100-1000 seeds work well. Morning Glory seeds contain far less LSA, but are better in my opinion, since HBW seeds contain cyanogenic glycosides and are harder to come by. As far as Morning Glories go, the Heavenly Blue variety seems to be the most potent, although different brands vary in potency. Flying Saucers and Pearly Gates are weaker, and are much lighter in color. The best seeds are black, while the worst are light tan.
Always start with a small dose your first time to get an idea of how potent they are. 100-200 Heavenly Blues is a good starter dose, which should give a mild psychedelic experience with some mild closed eye visuals. Higher doses are required for paradigm shifting experiences, however. Doses around 1000 seeds can send you to Heaven or Hell. Be careful.
Also, you want to be more careful of high doses on LSA than you would on LSD since LSA has vasoconstrictive effects. It contracts blood vessels and so reduces circulation, which can make you numb or tingly in the extremities, and through frequent use of high doses, can cause gangrene and even loss of extremities in extreme cases. In moderate and infrequent doses that are well-extracted, you have no need to worry about this. Just don't mix LSA with other vasoconstrictive substances like ephedrine.
Also, pregnant women should never use any ergot-like compound, like LSD or LSA, as these can cause uterine contractions and induce labor. Actually, the compound doctors use to induce labor is similar to LSD and LSA, and I believe it comes from ergot, just like LSA and, with a little synthesis, LSD.
Don't think the MG seeds thing is just a myth, like smoking banana peels. It really works and so is also a serious and potentially dangerous drug, just like any psychedelic. Treat it with the same respect with which you would treat LSD, psilocybin, or mescalin.
You shouldn't take ephedrine with ergot alkaloids, as it is a vasoconstrictive compound and will increase the vasoconstriction caused by the LSA and its close relatives. You especially shouldn't take LSA along with ephedrine and caffeine and nicotine, as all of these drugs have vasoconstrictive effects. Gangrene anyone?
In fact, I have experimented with this combo (cold tea from 800 MG seeds + 50mg ephedrine) before and it made my extremites go very nearly totally numb. I had lots of intense tingling in my hands and feet, as if they had gone to sleep. During part of the experience, I actually had pretty significant pain in the veins in my hands. Besides, I noticed that for some strange reason, the ephedrine seemed to diminish the desired effects of the LSA. Really, ephedrine is a nasty drug no matter how you use it.
It seems to me that you will get less lethargy and nausea if you perform the water extraction and get a purer product. Those nasty nonpolar compounds seem to contribute a great deal to the lethargy, nausea, headache, tunnel-vision, etc. With a good water extraction, I get none of that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE (Sept 2006) from hermes:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As for visuals, I can't even begin to describe most of them. And my memory of them is likely not very accurate since it has been a few years. I tend to translate the experiences into a form that I can remember, as the real thing cannot be represented with sober thought. The visuals are beyond representation for the most part. All that I can give you are general themes.
I tended to see what seemed to be a four-dimensional lattice structure that appeared to be "behind" things, as if everyday reality were just a bright projection that obscured the real luminous hyperspatial structure behind it. Things tended to have eyes and feathers on them. Often what dominated the visuals was a winged eye in the center of my vision. Often, instead of wings, the eye was surrounded by colorful mandalic geometric forms or organic patterns like vegetation. But it was very common to see a serene eye in the focal point of my visual field with all sorts of fantastic forms radiating from it.
I also saw lots of angelic forms and gothic celestial architecture, particularly when listening to Mozart's Requiem on god headphones while tripping with my eyes closed.
I saw a vision of a pyramid, floating in the air, with the Eye of Ra on it, and with a sword piercing it from beneath. The sword was entwined with two cobras, as in a caduceus. And around this pyramid atop a snake entwined sword were four large luminous feathered wings, each one a distance out from each corner of the pyramid, coming from beneath the whole figure and reaching above it, almost as though the wings were guarding it. This whole figure has obvious occult meaning. I just wonder why the images are so typically Egyptian in character, at least for me.
I have found many things similar to my visions in the art of Alex Grey. The eyes all over things, the energy lattices, and so on, are all very similar to what I have seen. Have you seen Grey's painting called "Dying" ? That eye-filled vortex pattern is something that I have seen. It seemed to me at least while I was tripping that the winged eye that dominated things was my soul, maybe something like the "ba" of the Egyptians. I once saw it rising up to meet the light, as if I was underwater seeing the sun above the surface and my soul was flying up to join the sun.
I also once saw a great field of eggs, above which was a giant watchful eye, surveying the field of eggs. Some of the eggs were cracking, and the cracks were lined with peering eyes. Every exposed opening was filled with eyes. And I could see myself as one of these cracking eggs.
Another time, I saw myself as a red dragon, what seemed to be my true form in this hyperspace, flying up, seeking the Source.
All of the visuals have a quality that I can't describe well, verbally or with illustrations. Everything in that interior realm seems made of subtle energy and is luminous. It also often seems to have more than three spatial dimensions. It usually has a very detailed and very ordered structure, very mathematical, but arranged with a kind of structural harmony that is never seen in the physical world. The structures are beautiful beyond description. It is like visual music, with the sizes and positions shapes seemingly related by some kind of precise law that binds everything together in the most perfect harmony. The flawed forms of our world compared to those perfectly harmonious ones of that world are like the cacophany of a cocktail party compared to a symphony by Beethoven. Visual order like that has never been seen in physical form, in the natural world or in art. Fractal geometry sometimes resembles it, but still falls very short.
I did some drawing while on MG seeds and discovered some principles of visual harmony that I hope to fully realize one day and apply to painting. I think that it might be possible to revolutionize design with laws of structural harmony the way that Pythagoras revolutionized music with his discoveries of the harmonics of sound waves. I think that current visual art is probably like music before Pythagoras, with artists not understanding the laws of form and just basically working by trial and error to get something aesthetically pleasing. Primitive music was sometimes harmonious, but the real stuff was not unleashed until music theory was well understood.
Much of my MG trips have revolved around harmony one way or another. Playing a didgeridoo while tripping taught me a lot about sound waves and resonance. It was wonderful! It was all very Pythagorean and makes me wonder if the discoveries of Pythagoras were not aided by similar compounds, maybe through something like the eating of ergot infected grain. Plato has spoken of similar things and alludes to them with his Allegory of the Cave. And it is thought that he was an initiate in the Eleusinian Mysteries, which may have involved the ingestion of ergot infected grain.
Seeing this celestial realm, I suddenly realized where all of the great architects, designers, and artists were getting their inspiration from! I could especially see it in the sacred architecture of the great gothic cathedrals, the great mosques, Indian temples, and so on.
Check out these Indian temples, which are somewhat reminiscent of some of the subtle luminous structures seen on LSA and other compounds:
http://www5e.biglobe...ia1/india1.html
http://www.columbia..../lingaraja.html
But what really struck me is how this harmonious order is everywhere in our universe. The universe is governed by mathematical harmonies. They determine the structure of everything. The whole shebang seems to have harmony near its root.
I don't even know how to begin talking about what I got into there. I think that one reason that I have not yet gone back is that it was all a bit much. I still have not digested it! I could make a career out of the insights I gained in just a few minutes of any one of my more amazing trips.
As is probably obvious, I think that there is more to this than just chemicals and the brain.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*As far as Erowid reports, I found these two interesting due to the increased visual activity that resulted with lights turned off:
http://www.erowid.or...xp.php?ID=21080
and this combination report:
http://www.erowid.or...exp.php?ID=5316
#27
golly
-
- Expired Member
- 6,205 posts
modapotato
Posted 18 September 2006 - 01:13 PM
Lots of fascinating reports here...If we could just summerize it all somehow.
For instance, is it worth the effort to aquire Pet Ether for extraction when there are so many positive reports using just distilled cold water.....
If you were to create the best formula for a strong trip today ,how would YOU do it...?
The vasoconstriction thing is proly the biggest negative for this ole geezer..
but thanx again i've enjoyed this li'l post:bow: Tregar...
For instance, is it worth the effort to aquire Pet Ether for extraction when there are so many positive reports using just distilled cold water.....
If you were to create the best formula for a strong trip today ,how would YOU do it...?
The vasoconstriction thing is proly the biggest negative for this ole geezer..
but thanx again i've enjoyed this li'l post:bow: Tregar...
#28
tregar
-
- Free Member
- 1,336 posts
Mycotopiate
Posted 18 September 2006 - 08:17 PM
Thanks Golly.
I will be dreaming of both methods (the cold-water extractions 1st) then maybe the high grade P.E. method second. Build a light proof brushless fan box for evaporation of P.E. from the seed mush with the P.E. method, will use 190% proof everclear and will be working under a red light. For the cold-water extractions, will be using a stirrer with stir bar magnet, two small strainers attached together to hold the family sized tea bags of mush dunked in a large glass holding the very cold distilled water, away from light, for a period of 5 to 7 minutes, then maybe filtering through a buchner setup with #1 filter paper--to post dream results here in a few months. A pinch of tartaric acid could be used to stabilize the solution amides in salt form in an amber light proof bottle. Will be trying different brands of heavenly blue's in my dreams. I don't dream of seeds picked directly from fresh plants, but maybe one day.
Ergolines are exceedingly sensitive, easily decomposed substances--sensitive to light, heat and air.
Herme's experiences sound very similar to my high-dose acid trips many many eons ago. I would also back then see "4-dimensional lattice like structures" spinning in mid-air with eyes closed with the most fascinating animated mathematically harmonious patterns--breathtaking, as well as Egyptian pyramids with the glistening sands, dragons in the air, and saw a trio of small white angels holding hands and slowly dancing in a circular motion around a bush in the yard. Music was also very much enhanced.
I will be dreaming of both methods (the cold-water extractions 1st) then maybe the high grade P.E. method second. Build a light proof brushless fan box for evaporation of P.E. from the seed mush with the P.E. method, will use 190% proof everclear and will be working under a red light. For the cold-water extractions, will be using a stirrer with stir bar magnet, two small strainers attached together to hold the family sized tea bags of mush dunked in a large glass holding the very cold distilled water, away from light, for a period of 5 to 7 minutes, then maybe filtering through a buchner setup with #1 filter paper--to post dream results here in a few months. A pinch of tartaric acid could be used to stabilize the solution amides in salt form in an amber light proof bottle. Will be trying different brands of heavenly blue's in my dreams. I don't dream of seeds picked directly from fresh plants, but maybe one day.
Ergolines are exceedingly sensitive, easily decomposed substances--sensitive to light, heat and air.
Herme's experiences sound very similar to my high-dose acid trips many many eons ago. I would also back then see "4-dimensional lattice like structures" spinning in mid-air with eyes closed with the most fascinating animated mathematically harmonious patterns--breathtaking, as well as Egyptian pyramids with the glistening sands, dragons in the air, and saw a trio of small white angels holding hands and slowly dancing in a circular motion around a bush in the yard. Music was also very much enhanced.
#29
golly
-
- Expired Member
- 6,205 posts
modapotato
Posted 18 September 2006 - 09:41 PM
Looking foreward to your "dream" experience ...In the meantime ,there's a fresh harvest coming in as we speak...I'm going for the water method...
And for the benefit of all the boys and girls out there.....Archive material..
And for the benefit of all the boys and girls out there.....Archive material..
#30
tregar
-
- Free Member
- 1,336 posts
Mycotopiate
Posted 19 September 2006 - 04:57 PM
Thanks, archiving would be a good idea. Looking forward to your experiences in the future.
Fresh seeds are best. There can be up to a 16 fold variation in the psychoactive potency of seeds produced according to Mr. Cloud.
Mrs. Superweed saids the following:
"As the months pass stored seeds lose both their viability and their psychoactive properties. Broken or damaged seeds also swiftly lose both of these powers."
Below is information that I have not found (and cannot be found) anywhere on the web but is from 2 old sources:
Mr. Cloud states the following:
"The combination of genetic factors, environmental conditions, and soil chemistry create as much as a sixteenfold variation in the psychoactive potency of seeds produced. Hormone treatment and attention to soil conditions and nutrients, however, go a long way toward maximizing the lysergic acid amide content of the seed harvest.
The ideal soil pH, or soil acidity, for producing seeds of high potency is around 6.5. Soil pH test kits are sold at nurseries and gardening supply outlets, which also sell formulas for adjusting soil pH levels.
Soils high in nitrogen and phosphates and low in potassium produce seeds of high lysergic acid amide content. Ideal soil potassium content for this purpose is approximately 1.5 parts per 100 parts dry soil. Soil tests kits sold at nurseries are used to check soil levels of nitrogen, phospates, and potassium. Individual nutrients as well as nutrient formulas sold at these locations are used to adjust soil levels of these substances.
In order to keep soil potassium content low, cultivators use sodium nitrate instead of potassium nitrate as a nitrogen source, and use sodium acid phosphate--as opposed to potassium acid phosphate--as a phoshate source.
Treatment with a hormone called gibberellic acid is used to maximize the lysergic acid amide content of the seed harvest.
Cultivators using pure gibberellic acid dissolve one gram in one liter of distilled water. When the plants are still seedlings, they add a few drops of this solution to the soil around each plant before watering. They repeat this procedure every two weeks as the plant grows, using more solution each time until they are using about a half ounce of gibberellic acid per plant when the plants are fully grown.
Timing is an important aspect of treatment with gibberellic acid. Since this hormone delays the maturation of the plants and inhibits production of flowers and seeds, treatment is discontinued a few weeks before the plants are to flower.
Morning Glories are planted in the Spring when there is no longer any danger of frost. The cultivation process starts by soaking the seeds in water overnight. An alternative to soaking is to nick the coating of the seed with a sharp blade.
The seeds are planted about one-half inch deep and at least six inches apart in fine, loosely-packed, light-textured soil. As the vine grows, they are supported on trellises.
Morning Glory seeds are harvested in the Fall at the end of the growing season, when the concentration of lysergic acid amides is at its highest. Morning Glory seeds are ripe when they have become dark and hard."
From Mrs. Superweed:
"The likely range in any species may fall between .005% and .079% total indole alkaloids in different batches of seeds. Freshly harvested seeds are best.
Sow seeds in their permanent location after danger of frost is past. The seed has a hard protective coat and may be slow to germinate. To hasten germination soak seeds in water overnight. Some experts advise cutting or filing the side of the seed farthest from the germ eye just enough that some white appears. I have tested both methods and found that the soaked seeds sprout faster and have a better chance of survival than the scratched seeds. Plant seeds 1/2 inch deep under fine soil, not less than six inches apart. Be sure to provide a fence, trellis or strings to support the fast-growing vines. If, at maturity, the vines do not seem inclined to produce flowers, stop watering for a few days and generally cut back on watering after that, but not so much that the plants wilt. This will hasten blooming. After that normal watering may be resumed.
Morning glories grow easily with very little care. Our task, however, is to get them to produce a maximum percentage of alkaloids. One factor influencing this is soil chemistry. Test your soil with a soil test kit, available for a low price at most nurseries. The soil should have a pH factor of about 6.5, a high phosphate and low potassium content. High phosphate concentration increases indole alkaloid formation. Low potassium content of about 1.5 parts to 100 parts dry soil aids free tryptophan accumulation and biosynthesis. It also produces a low indoleacetic acid content, which means that more indole alkaloids will be formed. This can be accomplished by using sodium nitrate instead of potassium nitrate for a nitrogen source and sodium hydrophosphate instead of potassium hydrophosphate to increase the phosphate content.
Experiments show that certain plant hormones also have a positive influence on the alkaloid potency of morning glories. A solution of one gram gibberellic acid in one quart water can be used on the soil around the roots once every two weeks. Begin this treatment while plant is in the seedling stage. Use only a few drops at first and increase the amount as the plant size increases so that when the plant is full size you are using up to 1/2 ounce of solution per treatment.
Gibberellic acid costs about $5 per gram at most chemical companies. It stimulates growth as well as alkaloid production. Therefore its use must be discontinued several weeks before flowering time. Further experiments indicate that growth-inhibiting auxins such as alpha naphthalene acetic acid can also increase the combinations of these substances on the potency of morning glory seeds. We are interested in hearing the results of your experiments. But even without the use of hormones and auxins amazing results can be achieved by employing the soil chemistry control method described in this article."
Fresh seeds are best. There can be up to a 16 fold variation in the psychoactive potency of seeds produced according to Mr. Cloud.
Mrs. Superweed saids the following:
"As the months pass stored seeds lose both their viability and their psychoactive properties. Broken or damaged seeds also swiftly lose both of these powers."
Below is information that I have not found (and cannot be found) anywhere on the web but is from 2 old sources:
Mr. Cloud states the following:
"The combination of genetic factors, environmental conditions, and soil chemistry create as much as a sixteenfold variation in the psychoactive potency of seeds produced. Hormone treatment and attention to soil conditions and nutrients, however, go a long way toward maximizing the lysergic acid amide content of the seed harvest.
The ideal soil pH, or soil acidity, for producing seeds of high potency is around 6.5. Soil pH test kits are sold at nurseries and gardening supply outlets, which also sell formulas for adjusting soil pH levels.
Soils high in nitrogen and phosphates and low in potassium produce seeds of high lysergic acid amide content. Ideal soil potassium content for this purpose is approximately 1.5 parts per 100 parts dry soil. Soil tests kits sold at nurseries are used to check soil levels of nitrogen, phospates, and potassium. Individual nutrients as well as nutrient formulas sold at these locations are used to adjust soil levels of these substances.
In order to keep soil potassium content low, cultivators use sodium nitrate instead of potassium nitrate as a nitrogen source, and use sodium acid phosphate--as opposed to potassium acid phosphate--as a phoshate source.
Treatment with a hormone called gibberellic acid is used to maximize the lysergic acid amide content of the seed harvest.
Cultivators using pure gibberellic acid dissolve one gram in one liter of distilled water. When the plants are still seedlings, they add a few drops of this solution to the soil around each plant before watering. They repeat this procedure every two weeks as the plant grows, using more solution each time until they are using about a half ounce of gibberellic acid per plant when the plants are fully grown.
Timing is an important aspect of treatment with gibberellic acid. Since this hormone delays the maturation of the plants and inhibits production of flowers and seeds, treatment is discontinued a few weeks before the plants are to flower.
Morning Glories are planted in the Spring when there is no longer any danger of frost. The cultivation process starts by soaking the seeds in water overnight. An alternative to soaking is to nick the coating of the seed with a sharp blade.
The seeds are planted about one-half inch deep and at least six inches apart in fine, loosely-packed, light-textured soil. As the vine grows, they are supported on trellises.
Morning Glory seeds are harvested in the Fall at the end of the growing season, when the concentration of lysergic acid amides is at its highest. Morning Glory seeds are ripe when they have become dark and hard."
From Mrs. Superweed:
"The likely range in any species may fall between .005% and .079% total indole alkaloids in different batches of seeds. Freshly harvested seeds are best.
Sow seeds in their permanent location after danger of frost is past. The seed has a hard protective coat and may be slow to germinate. To hasten germination soak seeds in water overnight. Some experts advise cutting or filing the side of the seed farthest from the germ eye just enough that some white appears. I have tested both methods and found that the soaked seeds sprout faster and have a better chance of survival than the scratched seeds. Plant seeds 1/2 inch deep under fine soil, not less than six inches apart. Be sure to provide a fence, trellis or strings to support the fast-growing vines. If, at maturity, the vines do not seem inclined to produce flowers, stop watering for a few days and generally cut back on watering after that, but not so much that the plants wilt. This will hasten blooming. After that normal watering may be resumed.
Morning glories grow easily with very little care. Our task, however, is to get them to produce a maximum percentage of alkaloids. One factor influencing this is soil chemistry. Test your soil with a soil test kit, available for a low price at most nurseries. The soil should have a pH factor of about 6.5, a high phosphate and low potassium content. High phosphate concentration increases indole alkaloid formation. Low potassium content of about 1.5 parts to 100 parts dry soil aids free tryptophan accumulation and biosynthesis. It also produces a low indoleacetic acid content, which means that more indole alkaloids will be formed. This can be accomplished by using sodium nitrate instead of potassium nitrate for a nitrogen source and sodium hydrophosphate instead of potassium hydrophosphate to increase the phosphate content.
Experiments show that certain plant hormones also have a positive influence on the alkaloid potency of morning glories. A solution of one gram gibberellic acid in one quart water can be used on the soil around the roots once every two weeks. Begin this treatment while plant is in the seedling stage. Use only a few drops at first and increase the amount as the plant size increases so that when the plant is full size you are using up to 1/2 ounce of solution per treatment.
Gibberellic acid costs about $5 per gram at most chemical companies. It stimulates growth as well as alkaloid production. Therefore its use must be discontinued several weeks before flowering time. Further experiments indicate that growth-inhibiting auxins such as alpha naphthalene acetic acid can also increase the combinations of these substances on the potency of morning glory seeds. We are interested in hearing the results of your experiments. But even without the use of hormones and auxins amazing results can be achieved by employing the soil chemistry control method described in this article."
#31
Bluejay
-
- Expired Member
- 54 posts
Mycophiliac
Posted 19 September 2006 - 05:27 PM
:eusa_clap :bow: :eusa_clap THANK YOU....
#32
arahant
-
- Expired Member
- 9 posts
Mycophiliac
Posted 24 September 2006 - 07:52 PM
Anyone have any experience, or any idea how to aquire reagent grade petroleum ether in ontario? I don't see any listings for chemical supply houses in the yellowpages, I'm having a hard time finding anywhere that will sell/ship a regular container of petroleum ether on the internet. any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks guys
#33
eastwood
-
- Honorary Former Staff
- 4,612 posts
Dragon Bait
Posted 24 September 2006 - 08:32 PM
good info.. thanks for the time you spent putting this together
#34
golly
-
- Expired Member
- 6,205 posts
modapotato
Posted 24 September 2006 - 09:07 PM
I'm having a tough time finding P.E. too , without some kind of pre registration- identification...So i'm opting for the distilled h2o method ..I'm not willing to resort to lower grade Pet either...
#35
tregar
-
- Free Member
- 1,336 posts
Mycotopiate
Posted 24 September 2006 - 09:54 PM
Hi everyone.
Yes, eastwood it took a long time to study this subject and put the info together...glad you like it! but I think I struck the goldmine when I discovered all of the postings by accident buried in the other forum (2 months later) from hermes. And even more so, when I contacted him and he sent me about 3 pages of new material and more trip reports (see Sept 2006 visuals report in post #26 for example.) He like me would like for this to remain underground and for it to not get much exposure--to leave it to those "in the know" as the quantity of remaining legal plant psychedelics is rapidly disappearing. But as you've probably discovered there are not many published accounts of morning glory trips. In fact, you would discover that finding incredible reports like those of hermes, nogal, stretchman, or peter webster is like trying to find a needle in a haystack amidst all the material on the internet or books. Even Peter Webster appears to have kept the trip reports of his trips to himself other than describing them as "just as potent as high-dose LSD trips" he's had. I am forever thankful that hermes shared as much as he has--he is also very intelligent and a great writer. Hermes mentioned to me that he sometimes regrets sharing so much about the seeds and says: "I have not used MG seeds for a number of years now. Recently, the only psychedelic that I have been experimenting with is salvia. But some of those MG trips are my most memorable. The profound religious experiences that I had with MG seeds are among the high points of my life. I am still working on some of the avenues of exploration that were initiated in at least one of those trips." Hermes saids "This kind of thing is best kept underground. There are only a few ways of accessing psychedelics without resorting to risky business or dealing with the black market. I, for one, don't want to get anywhere close to dealers." "Anyway, something that I will suggest and that I currently practice is to not promote MG seed use too loudly. It might be best to let people make mistakes and get nausea with them. The less positive attention they get, the less likely the gov. is to step in and stop legal seed distribution. "I actually regret having spoken so glowingly of MG seeds in the past. I would rather they have a reputation for nausea and only slight psychedelic effects. If everyone thought that it was a bogus thing like smoking banana peels, that would be fine by me."
I'm sorry I can't help if your unable to find the reagent grade p.e., but I don't see how you could go wrong either by using a properly-performed short distilled cold-water extraction. I think the real trick to this is getting fresh, potent, good strain/gene seeds (with a high indole content) that have been stored in cool conditions, and not sitting around in heat for ages--I would love to hear an experience of fresh seeds right off the plant. If any of you happen to live near one of the few remaining open K-marts then I think you would be very lucky there too, some over 300 under-performing stores were closed due to competition from Walmart and Target.
By the way, I ran 3 experiments thus far. I have past experience with acid, psilocybin, and cactus extract. I would be thrilled if I could experience visuals like hermes did using the holland grown fresh seeds. Heck, I'd be happy just to see even the most basic twirling geometric form with eyes closed at this point with the seeds. As an artist, I value the visual aspects highly of these entheogens.
Why am I so interested in the seeds? For one, its the VERY interesting visual reports from hermes, nogal, Peter Webster and others. Two, it is because if the visuals are anything like my past acid experiences (and judging from hermes reports they are very similar) then this is worth studying. Three, although I have had some very good and very visual experiences with psilocybin in the past, I believe like Dr. Hofmann that the psilocybin inebriation (and this may just apply to my own individual perception and not anyone else) is more darkly colored in the majority of cases than the inebriation produced by LSD. As Dr. Hofmann states in "LSD My Problem Child, page 174"--"The influence of these two substances is sure to differ from one individual to another. Personally, for me, there was more light in the LSD experiments than in the experiments with the earthly mushroom, just as Ernst Junger remarks in the preceding report." This is a clip from Junger's report on the page before: "These were the earthy mushrooms. More light was hidden in the dark grain that burst from the ear, more yet in the green juice of the succulents on the glowing slopes of Mexico...[Translator's note: Junger is referring to LSD, a derivative or ergot, and mescaline, derived from the Mexican peyotl cactus.]" There were 3 men including Hofmann who each took 20mg of psilocybin together that day--they all experienced a dark trip (the trip reports are detailed from pages 168 to 175. When Junger (who had much experience with mescaline) first tried Hofmann's LSD with him at a low dose, he remarked "your LSD is but a mere housecat compared to mescaline." He later took his words back when he tried a higher dose of LSD.
See post #24 and #26 above to read of herme's very visual encounters with the cold-water 30 minute seed extracts.
I tried a cold water extraction of about 300 seeds from an on-line entheogen supplier of heavenly blue's. I may not have ground that material fine-enough though. I used a coffee grinder, then used a mortar and pestal to grind after the coffee grinding. The crushed material was soaked for about 10 minutes.The water was white and light tan colored, but not brown. I drank the solution but noticed zero effects. (Next time I think I will use a stirrer with spin magnet to stir the solution for a period closer to 30 minutes but not to exceed this 30 minute time frame.)
I then did another cold-water extraction of about 400 more seeds from the same bulk seed batch--and again no effects.
I kept eveything out of light. I worked in a dark room with only a 40-watt red light (like the kind used for reptiles while they sleep). You can find them at your local pet store.
The next day I did a reagent grade petroleum ether extract of a different batch of bulk seeds from a different entheogen supplier (this particular batch #2 glowed 5 times brighter green in everclear that the light green glowing weaker batch in a same amount using 1 oz everclear).
The crushed seed material was soaked for 20 minutes with vigorous shaking in the p.e., then the material was filtered thru a coffee filter over a one-liter jar with a rubber band holding the coffee filter to it. The left-over jar of spent reagent p.e. was only slightly cloudy or dis-colored. After about 45 minutes...all of the p.e. was in the jar, and only the wet fine and semi-fine crushed seed material was left on the filter.
The coffee filter holding the finely crushed seeds was then put into a light proof brushless sparkless fan box, which has a brushless 4" cpu fan on either side of the black box with 90 degree black pvc pipes attached to the outside of the box as air inlets and exhaust outlets. The fan on the right (inlet fan) pushed air into the black box, and the fan on the left pushed air out of the box (the outlet fan).This kept light to a minimum entering the box, but kept air flow at a maximum. As a matter of fact, this box stayed extremely dark and kept virtually all trace of light out it. In the center was suspended a large strainer which held the coffee filter of finely crushed seeds to dry. The box was plugged in, and was able to completely evaporate any remaining p.e. from the seeds in very little time. 4" circles were cut on either side of the platic black file type box using a hole cutter mounted to a drill. Two circular 4" in diameter 90 degree elbow pipes were found (the insides of the pipe were painted flat black) and 4 small 1" angle pieces were used to mount the light blocking pipes to the box where the fans were mounted in the inside. This "evaporator" allowed the evaporation process to proceed rapidly free from light which is known to degrade amides.
The reagent grade p.e. works very well. The seed mush was evaporated of any remaining p.e. after only a few hours! I then let it sit in the box running the fans over night for safety's sake. In the morning the super-dry seed mush (very clean--had no smell or residue at all) was mixed with 3oz of everclear, and left to sit in the fridge for 6 hours with shaking every hour. The extract was then filtered thru a buchner setup, (this only took a few minutes and proceeded very quickly) and about an 8gram final clean seed extract was then drank. It glowed only slightly aquamarine (more of a green color -- definately not blue though) under a 40-watt blacklight. I got no effects, so I tried the remaing 6 grams on top of that--( a total of 15 grams or 500 seeds) again no effects.
I believe that the "bulk seeds" from the 2 different suppliers I had used were very weak and old, and I am weary of ever using another "entheogen" supplier of seeds as I don't get any dating on the packages indicating how old these seeds could be. In other words, there is no way to tell if you ever will get fresh seeds. I got no effects from either the cold-water extraction or the reagent grade extract. The reagent grade extract did a perfect job of eliminating any trace of nausea however. Practically all of the k-marts have gone out of business and I would be hard-pressed to find the very-potent Martha Stewart brand without making a very long round-trip road trip--but perhaps this Spring I will do just that. Not to mention, with it being Fall, all of the stores have put away their seed stock. When the spring rolls round, they will be back though.
In the next few months, I will be trying fresh seeds (from this year) grown in holland, and elsewhere. They are much more expensive.
Hermes mentioned that he had great results for many years with fresh seeds (dated the same year on the packs) grown in holland, trying two different suppliers of fresh seeds (both marked "grown in holland" on the packets). With the seeds I used, I don't where they came from or how old they were. I even shined a pocket flashlight into my eyes, then closed them to see if the after-image would develop into anything interesting visually--but nothing at all.
The seeds I used must have been very old indeed to experience no effects. Also next time, I will grind with the coffee grinder very very thoroughly to the point of bee pollen looking material--then mortar and pestal it very well.
Sorry, no trip report with this report, as I got no effects from these seeds. It must be true that the seeds loose potency after many months, or else I just had 2 really bad strains of old or very weak seeds. Yes, this is disappointing but I don't give up so easily. I will also be experimenting with an everclear extract of potent dried cactus. I have tried pure mescaline extract(75 to 100mg below threshold dose) before but it kind of made me feel sickly and nauseated--didn't really like the way the extract came out--even though it was just like it was supposed to be--it didn't agree with me that well, and it made me feel like I didn't want to try it again. Hopefully, an everclear extract will sit differently with me. I do know that a threshold dose of water-extract cactus was very spiritual and enjoyable, but was limited to a low low dose for fear of getting into the nausea regions with higher doses. I haven't experienced light or medium doses yet--which are needed to get to the visuals. I'm also interested in huasca or dmt with an maoi. I've read Benny Shannon's book on huasca and many of the interesting posts here at the Myc on it.
If anyone has any good visual experiences with cactus extract or huasca they would like to share, please let me know about this too--and also what level of nausea (if any) did you experience? Please describe your visuals.
Aldous Huxley and William Blake in the book "Moksha" from pages 61 to 67 describe incredible mescaline visuals: "When the eyes are closed, visionary experience begins with the appearance in the visual field of living, moving geometries. These abstract, three-dimensional forms are intensely illuminated and brilliantly colored. After a time they tend to take on the appearance of concrete objects, such as richly patterned carpets, or mosaics, or carvings. These in turn modulate into rich and elaborate buildings, set in landscapes of extra-ordinary beaty. Neither the buildings nor the landscapes remain static, but change continuously. In none of their metamorphoses do they resemble any particular building or landscape seen by the subject in his ordinary state and remembered from the near or distant past. These things are all new. The subject does not remember or invent them; he discovers them, "out there," in the psychological equivalent of a hitherto unexplored geographical region."
Now back on the subject....
Also, I performed a few seperate experiments with the 2 different batches of seeds. Batch #1 of 300 seeds from entheogen supplier #1 when soaked in everclear glowed only slightly aquamarine (light yellow-green) while Batch #2 of 300 seeds when soaked in everclear glowed about 5 times brighter (again, yellow-green, but brighter fluorescent glow to it). These were not consumed, but were just some experiments to gauge how brightly they would glow under a blacklight--to see if I could gauge any potency effects by glow. The extracts glowed a type of greenish fluorescent yellow but did not glow bright blue at all. Maybe this would explain the lack of potent amides in the seeds? Now that Halloween is near, it is easy to find inexpensive 15 and 40 watt blacklights at stores.
I failed to mention this earlier, but I also added 1/2 teaspoon (3%) of tartaric acid to the 3oz of everclear holding the dried seed mush while in the fridge for 6 plus hours with shaking to aid in the alcohol extraction and for conversion of the free base alkaloids to the more stable salt form. Ideally, the everclear/seed extract should probably sit for 3 days in the fridge but we still don't have any clear answers on this either until we get more results.
Report back in a couple months again after trying the more expensive seeds. The heavenly-blue MG seeds from the two different suppliers I used were INACTIVE, and also did not glow "bright blue" in an alcohol solution under a blacklight, but rather "yellow-green". The one other thing these early experiments taught me is that I no longer have to fear being nauseated or getting ill-effects working with the seed extracts--and for this I am thankful. There was no nausea (other than a slight heavy feeling in the stomach for a very short period in the beginning) with the water-extracts and absolutely no trace of nausea or stomach feelings with the p.e. extract nor was there any kind of "petroleum aftertaste/burp/odors" like there might have been using lesser grades. Please keep me posted of your cold-water or other method experiences if possible.
Yes, eastwood it took a long time to study this subject and put the info together...glad you like it! but I think I struck the goldmine when I discovered all of the postings by accident buried in the other forum (2 months later) from hermes. And even more so, when I contacted him and he sent me about 3 pages of new material and more trip reports (see Sept 2006 visuals report in post #26 for example.) He like me would like for this to remain underground and for it to not get much exposure--to leave it to those "in the know" as the quantity of remaining legal plant psychedelics is rapidly disappearing. But as you've probably discovered there are not many published accounts of morning glory trips. In fact, you would discover that finding incredible reports like those of hermes, nogal, stretchman, or peter webster is like trying to find a needle in a haystack amidst all the material on the internet or books. Even Peter Webster appears to have kept the trip reports of his trips to himself other than describing them as "just as potent as high-dose LSD trips" he's had. I am forever thankful that hermes shared as much as he has--he is also very intelligent and a great writer. Hermes mentioned to me that he sometimes regrets sharing so much about the seeds and says: "I have not used MG seeds for a number of years now. Recently, the only psychedelic that I have been experimenting with is salvia. But some of those MG trips are my most memorable. The profound religious experiences that I had with MG seeds are among the high points of my life. I am still working on some of the avenues of exploration that were initiated in at least one of those trips." Hermes saids "This kind of thing is best kept underground. There are only a few ways of accessing psychedelics without resorting to risky business or dealing with the black market. I, for one, don't want to get anywhere close to dealers." "Anyway, something that I will suggest and that I currently practice is to not promote MG seed use too loudly. It might be best to let people make mistakes and get nausea with them. The less positive attention they get, the less likely the gov. is to step in and stop legal seed distribution. "I actually regret having spoken so glowingly of MG seeds in the past. I would rather they have a reputation for nausea and only slight psychedelic effects. If everyone thought that it was a bogus thing like smoking banana peels, that would be fine by me."
I'm sorry I can't help if your unable to find the reagent grade p.e., but I don't see how you could go wrong either by using a properly-performed short distilled cold-water extraction. I think the real trick to this is getting fresh, potent, good strain/gene seeds (with a high indole content) that have been stored in cool conditions, and not sitting around in heat for ages--I would love to hear an experience of fresh seeds right off the plant. If any of you happen to live near one of the few remaining open K-marts then I think you would be very lucky there too, some over 300 under-performing stores were closed due to competition from Walmart and Target.
By the way, I ran 3 experiments thus far. I have past experience with acid, psilocybin, and cactus extract. I would be thrilled if I could experience visuals like hermes did using the holland grown fresh seeds. Heck, I'd be happy just to see even the most basic twirling geometric form with eyes closed at this point with the seeds. As an artist, I value the visual aspects highly of these entheogens.
Why am I so interested in the seeds? For one, its the VERY interesting visual reports from hermes, nogal, Peter Webster and others. Two, it is because if the visuals are anything like my past acid experiences (and judging from hermes reports they are very similar) then this is worth studying. Three, although I have had some very good and very visual experiences with psilocybin in the past, I believe like Dr. Hofmann that the psilocybin inebriation (and this may just apply to my own individual perception and not anyone else) is more darkly colored in the majority of cases than the inebriation produced by LSD. As Dr. Hofmann states in "LSD My Problem Child, page 174"--"The influence of these two substances is sure to differ from one individual to another. Personally, for me, there was more light in the LSD experiments than in the experiments with the earthly mushroom, just as Ernst Junger remarks in the preceding report." This is a clip from Junger's report on the page before: "These were the earthy mushrooms. More light was hidden in the dark grain that burst from the ear, more yet in the green juice of the succulents on the glowing slopes of Mexico...[Translator's note: Junger is referring to LSD, a derivative or ergot, and mescaline, derived from the Mexican peyotl cactus.]" There were 3 men including Hofmann who each took 20mg of psilocybin together that day--they all experienced a dark trip (the trip reports are detailed from pages 168 to 175. When Junger (who had much experience with mescaline) first tried Hofmann's LSD with him at a low dose, he remarked "your LSD is but a mere housecat compared to mescaline." He later took his words back when he tried a higher dose of LSD.
See post #24 and #26 above to read of herme's very visual encounters with the cold-water 30 minute seed extracts.
I tried a cold water extraction of about 300 seeds from an on-line entheogen supplier of heavenly blue's. I may not have ground that material fine-enough though. I used a coffee grinder, then used a mortar and pestal to grind after the coffee grinding. The crushed material was soaked for about 10 minutes.The water was white and light tan colored, but not brown. I drank the solution but noticed zero effects. (Next time I think I will use a stirrer with spin magnet to stir the solution for a period closer to 30 minutes but not to exceed this 30 minute time frame.)
I then did another cold-water extraction of about 400 more seeds from the same bulk seed batch--and again no effects.
I kept eveything out of light. I worked in a dark room with only a 40-watt red light (like the kind used for reptiles while they sleep). You can find them at your local pet store.
The next day I did a reagent grade petroleum ether extract of a different batch of bulk seeds from a different entheogen supplier (this particular batch #2 glowed 5 times brighter green in everclear that the light green glowing weaker batch in a same amount using 1 oz everclear).
The crushed seed material was soaked for 20 minutes with vigorous shaking in the p.e., then the material was filtered thru a coffee filter over a one-liter jar with a rubber band holding the coffee filter to it. The left-over jar of spent reagent p.e. was only slightly cloudy or dis-colored. After about 45 minutes...all of the p.e. was in the jar, and only the wet fine and semi-fine crushed seed material was left on the filter.
The coffee filter holding the finely crushed seeds was then put into a light proof brushless sparkless fan box, which has a brushless 4" cpu fan on either side of the black box with 90 degree black pvc pipes attached to the outside of the box as air inlets and exhaust outlets. The fan on the right (inlet fan) pushed air into the black box, and the fan on the left pushed air out of the box (the outlet fan).This kept light to a minimum entering the box, but kept air flow at a maximum. As a matter of fact, this box stayed extremely dark and kept virtually all trace of light out it. In the center was suspended a large strainer which held the coffee filter of finely crushed seeds to dry. The box was plugged in, and was able to completely evaporate any remaining p.e. from the seeds in very little time. 4" circles were cut on either side of the platic black file type box using a hole cutter mounted to a drill. Two circular 4" in diameter 90 degree elbow pipes were found (the insides of the pipe were painted flat black) and 4 small 1" angle pieces were used to mount the light blocking pipes to the box where the fans were mounted in the inside. This "evaporator" allowed the evaporation process to proceed rapidly free from light which is known to degrade amides.
The reagent grade p.e. works very well. The seed mush was evaporated of any remaining p.e. after only a few hours! I then let it sit in the box running the fans over night for safety's sake. In the morning the super-dry seed mush (very clean--had no smell or residue at all) was mixed with 3oz of everclear, and left to sit in the fridge for 6 hours with shaking every hour. The extract was then filtered thru a buchner setup, (this only took a few minutes and proceeded very quickly) and about an 8gram final clean seed extract was then drank. It glowed only slightly aquamarine (more of a green color -- definately not blue though) under a 40-watt blacklight. I got no effects, so I tried the remaing 6 grams on top of that--( a total of 15 grams or 500 seeds) again no effects.
I believe that the "bulk seeds" from the 2 different suppliers I had used were very weak and old, and I am weary of ever using another "entheogen" supplier of seeds as I don't get any dating on the packages indicating how old these seeds could be. In other words, there is no way to tell if you ever will get fresh seeds. I got no effects from either the cold-water extraction or the reagent grade extract. The reagent grade extract did a perfect job of eliminating any trace of nausea however. Practically all of the k-marts have gone out of business and I would be hard-pressed to find the very-potent Martha Stewart brand without making a very long round-trip road trip--but perhaps this Spring I will do just that. Not to mention, with it being Fall, all of the stores have put away their seed stock. When the spring rolls round, they will be back though.
In the next few months, I will be trying fresh seeds (from this year) grown in holland, and elsewhere. They are much more expensive.
Hermes mentioned that he had great results for many years with fresh seeds (dated the same year on the packs) grown in holland, trying two different suppliers of fresh seeds (both marked "grown in holland" on the packets). With the seeds I used, I don't where they came from or how old they were. I even shined a pocket flashlight into my eyes, then closed them to see if the after-image would develop into anything interesting visually--but nothing at all.
The seeds I used must have been very old indeed to experience no effects. Also next time, I will grind with the coffee grinder very very thoroughly to the point of bee pollen looking material--then mortar and pestal it very well.
Sorry, no trip report with this report, as I got no effects from these seeds. It must be true that the seeds loose potency after many months, or else I just had 2 really bad strains of old or very weak seeds. Yes, this is disappointing but I don't give up so easily. I will also be experimenting with an everclear extract of potent dried cactus. I have tried pure mescaline extract(75 to 100mg below threshold dose) before but it kind of made me feel sickly and nauseated--didn't really like the way the extract came out--even though it was just like it was supposed to be--it didn't agree with me that well, and it made me feel like I didn't want to try it again. Hopefully, an everclear extract will sit differently with me. I do know that a threshold dose of water-extract cactus was very spiritual and enjoyable, but was limited to a low low dose for fear of getting into the nausea regions with higher doses. I haven't experienced light or medium doses yet--which are needed to get to the visuals. I'm also interested in huasca or dmt with an maoi. I've read Benny Shannon's book on huasca and many of the interesting posts here at the Myc on it.
If anyone has any good visual experiences with cactus extract or huasca they would like to share, please let me know about this too--and also what level of nausea (if any) did you experience? Please describe your visuals.
Aldous Huxley and William Blake in the book "Moksha" from pages 61 to 67 describe incredible mescaline visuals: "When the eyes are closed, visionary experience begins with the appearance in the visual field of living, moving geometries. These abstract, three-dimensional forms are intensely illuminated and brilliantly colored. After a time they tend to take on the appearance of concrete objects, such as richly patterned carpets, or mosaics, or carvings. These in turn modulate into rich and elaborate buildings, set in landscapes of extra-ordinary beaty. Neither the buildings nor the landscapes remain static, but change continuously. In none of their metamorphoses do they resemble any particular building or landscape seen by the subject in his ordinary state and remembered from the near or distant past. These things are all new. The subject does not remember or invent them; he discovers them, "out there," in the psychological equivalent of a hitherto unexplored geographical region."
Now back on the subject....
Also, I performed a few seperate experiments with the 2 different batches of seeds. Batch #1 of 300 seeds from entheogen supplier #1 when soaked in everclear glowed only slightly aquamarine (light yellow-green) while Batch #2 of 300 seeds when soaked in everclear glowed about 5 times brighter (again, yellow-green, but brighter fluorescent glow to it). These were not consumed, but were just some experiments to gauge how brightly they would glow under a blacklight--to see if I could gauge any potency effects by glow. The extracts glowed a type of greenish fluorescent yellow but did not glow bright blue at all. Maybe this would explain the lack of potent amides in the seeds? Now that Halloween is near, it is easy to find inexpensive 15 and 40 watt blacklights at stores.
I failed to mention this earlier, but I also added 1/2 teaspoon (3%) of tartaric acid to the 3oz of everclear holding the dried seed mush while in the fridge for 6 plus hours with shaking to aid in the alcohol extraction and for conversion of the free base alkaloids to the more stable salt form. Ideally, the everclear/seed extract should probably sit for 3 days in the fridge but we still don't have any clear answers on this either until we get more results.
Report back in a couple months again after trying the more expensive seeds. The heavenly-blue MG seeds from the two different suppliers I used were INACTIVE, and also did not glow "bright blue" in an alcohol solution under a blacklight, but rather "yellow-green". The one other thing these early experiments taught me is that I no longer have to fear being nauseated or getting ill-effects working with the seed extracts--and for this I am thankful. There was no nausea (other than a slight heavy feeling in the stomach for a very short period in the beginning) with the water-extracts and absolutely no trace of nausea or stomach feelings with the p.e. extract nor was there any kind of "petroleum aftertaste/burp/odors" like there might have been using lesser grades. Please keep me posted of your cold-water or other method experiences if possible.
#36
tregar
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Mycotopiate
Posted 26 September 2006 - 07:41 AM
From what I've been able to tell by researching on the net, When you go to k-mart you are most likely just paying double the price for a pack of burpee seeds with her name on it. It's been rumored that the Martha Stewart brand is actually re-packaged burpee seeds, of which the MG seeds have been grown in holland.
#37
tregar
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Posted 26 September 2006 - 07:49 PM
The fact that my last step everclear extractions did not glow bright blue under a 40 watt blacklight obviously means that the two different batches of seeds I used were not active anymore...also taking up to 12 grams of the 1st batch and up to 14 grams of the 2nd batch cwe and p.e.e. resulted in zero effects. Peter Webster as well as Dr. D mention that their potent seed extracts glowed "bright blue" under blacklight.
If I get lucky and the next batch of (premium seeds this time not bulk seeds) glows bright blue under blacklight, I will definately take a picture and post it, as well as provide a trip report.
If I get lucky and the next batch of (premium seeds this time not bulk seeds) glows bright blue under blacklight, I will definately take a picture and post it, as well as provide a trip report.
#38
Bluejay
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Mycophiliac
Posted 26 September 2006 - 08:11 PM
I just hit this next batch with HCL water(yes I was lazy and did not get the digital ph meter out. I plan of finding the right number for everyone.. my guess when I made it was shooting around a 5.)
I put alittle hcl water into the acetone after the LSA had been pulled and seperated from the seed pulp
Upon drying there isnt any trace of crusty brown solids only A PURE yellow oil. about a half gel cap full from 250 seeds or so(40 grams actually, are you gonna take the time and count.)
I will try this weekend...
I put alittle hcl water into the acetone after the LSA had been pulled and seperated from the seed pulp
Upon drying there isnt any trace of crusty brown solids only A PURE yellow oil. about a half gel cap full from 250 seeds or so(40 grams actually, are you gonna take the time and count.)
I will try this weekend...
#39
tregar
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Posted 26 September 2006 - 08:12 PM
Bluejay, what color would you say your extract looked like under a blacklight? I have looked at the pics you posted but maybe you could give me a better idea of what color it is.
By the way, are the mg seeds you are using from a dated pack or were they picked fresh from a plant or are they from a bulk supplier?
I was very disappointed in the cheaper bulk seeds.
Look forward to hearing your report with the mg's.
I have a few days off at the end of next week and will then be getting around to trying out the premium seeds with the reagent method 1st because I want to get to an alcohol extract to see if it glows a different color than the inactive bulk seeds, I also like this method since it had not even the slightest trace of nausea, I am just wondering how much decomposition is taking place when the evaporator fans are blowing over the amides for 4 to 10 hours, and this is why I will compare the results with a 20 minute cold-water extraction of same seed quantity and same batch.
By the way, are the mg seeds you are using from a dated pack or were they picked fresh from a plant or are they from a bulk supplier?
I was very disappointed in the cheaper bulk seeds.
Look forward to hearing your report with the mg's.
I have a few days off at the end of next week and will then be getting around to trying out the premium seeds with the reagent method 1st because I want to get to an alcohol extract to see if it glows a different color than the inactive bulk seeds, I also like this method since it had not even the slightest trace of nausea, I am just wondering how much decomposition is taking place when the evaporator fans are blowing over the amides for 4 to 10 hours, and this is why I will compare the results with a 20 minute cold-water extraction of same seed quantity and same batch.
#40
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Posted 26 September 2006 - 08:26 PM
thanks for the book :amazed:
skimmed and will get back to it when i can.
lots of trusty info here.
skimmed and will get back to it when i can.
lots of trusty info here.
