Paradox
©
Fisana

Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

American Style Market Economy: A Failed System?


  • Please log in to reply
9 replies to this topic

#1 Alder Logs

Alder Logs

    ૐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः ૐ

  • Moderator
  • 12,942 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 08 May 2018 - 08:11 PM

I am going to start this thread with two interviews dropped at Y'ube today by Jimmy Dore.  The first is Professor Richard Wolff, posted in four parts.

 

[Direct Link]

 

[Direct Link]

 

[Direct Link]

 

[Direct Link]


  • Myc likes this

#2 Alder Logs

Alder Logs

    ૐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः ૐ

  • Moderator
  • 12,942 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 08 May 2018 - 08:16 PM

And here, the creator of the Zeitgeist film series, also in four parts.  Jimmy interviews Peter Joseph, on The New Human Rights Movement.

 

 

[Direct Link]

 

[Direct Link]

 

[Direct Link]

 

[Direct Link]

 

On edit: A fifth part was posted:

 

[Direct Link]


Edited by Alder Logs, 09 May 2018 - 02:48 PM.


#3 pharmer

pharmer

    Mycotopiate

  • OG VIP
  • 3,734 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 09 May 2018 - 09:27 AM

I hate to even attempt to correct this error because people seem so perfectly unwilling to hear anything that disagrees with their pet cause but...

 

America, the United States of America, is not and does not have a market economy.

 

We should be so lucky.

 

The economy is managed by bureaucrats in bed captains of fully corrupted industries, and the farthest thing from a free market. Accent and emphasis on the word FREE.

 

More accurately the economy would be described as Fascist - the merger and marriage of government and industry. Those who don't willingly merge are regulated until they do. Only the smallest businessman can fly under this radar and still call himself a free marketeer, or participant in a free market, and only if he doesn't need much from the greater economy.

 

I pick this argument for only one reason. To point out that to call this economy a Free Market shits on the concept of a free market and willingly misidentifies it. It's a deception if done willingly and pure ignorance if done innocently.

 

This is as good an example of any as to how fucked in the head thinking at large is becoming and being bred like bad bacteria in a petri dish by media and education outlets of all kinds.

 

It's a tragedy.


Edited by pharmer, 09 May 2018 - 09:29 AM.

  • sparrow95 likes this

#4 August West

August West

    Mycotopiate

  • OG VIP
  • 3,431 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 09 May 2018 - 09:58 AM

I tend to agree with your point, pharmer. Usually it's the case that people decry "free markets" when speaking of the U.S. economy. I haven't watched the videos so I can't speak specifically to their content (I do think I've seen enough Peter Joseph to have a hard time taking him seriously but, whether he was aware of the critique or not, Alder specific wrote (or copied?) "American Style Market Economy", not "free markets". I don't think this is an entirely poor framing. The U.S. economy is neither free market nor fascist. It is indeed an American Style: X, where X should be defined by those discussing the issue. Getting bogged down in the weeds of words, though a pet project of mine, isn't always useful.


  • Alder Logs likes this

#5 Alder Logs

Alder Logs

    ૐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः ૐ

  • Moderator
  • 12,942 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 09 May 2018 - 12:13 PM

Yes, I said "American Style."   The points made about how any market system has extreme difficulty addressing its actual affects on environment and human social interactions is an important thing we need consider.   The notions of human nature morphed greatly with the advent of markets.   Identification with possessions changed how humans interacted.   We haven't a clue, acting from within a marketing society, what original human nature might be.   It is as we are wearing tinted glasses.   Human rights became property rights.  



#6 pharmer

pharmer

    Mycotopiate

  • OG VIP
  • 3,734 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 09 May 2018 - 02:36 PM

I'll go into my understanding of morality and resource stewardship in this thread if anyone is willing.

 

Or take it to another.

 

Seems to me a much under-discussed facet of the whole Market discussion. People seem willing these days to defend it to the hilt (not me) or burn it down without further delay, bypassing any learning or reasoned discourse about it. I'll exclude anyone already in this thread from that observation.

 

Re: facism    How is accurately identifying something getting bogged down in words? It appears that we may be having a disagreement about the definition of facism. I'll hear another but stay with mine until I hear one that works better.


Edited by pharmer, 09 May 2018 - 02:39 PM.


#7 August West

August West

    Mycotopiate

  • OG VIP
  • 3,431 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 09 May 2018 - 08:20 PM

Re: facism    How is accurately identifying something getting bogged down in words? It appears that we may be having a disagreement about the definition of facism. I'll hear another but stay with mine until I hear one that works better.

I didn't make my point as clearly as I could've.

I think you answered your own question there. If words are thrown around and never defined, there isn't much point in having a complex discussion. Capitalism, fascism, liberal, conservative, markets, socialism...these things no longer seem to have a fixed definition - if they ever did. Not least because, as you pointed out, there is a lack of learning and discourse. It is especially important to define words like these, lest everyone waste their time

Does the U.S. have a fascist economy? Imo, no. Are there several concerning fascist elements? Yes. Just like it's not purely a market economy, though it has elements of that too. That is why I think the use of " American Style ..." is useful.

#8 Alder Logs

Alder Logs

    ૐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः ૐ

  • Moderator
  • 12,942 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 10 May 2018 - 03:30 PM

I would hate to think that ultimately, no one here even watches these two interviews.   I must be a real dumbfuck to have thunk they were important enough for discussion here.

 

 

BTW, I am watching the second one for my second time as I write this.


Edited by Alder Logs, 10 May 2018 - 03:31 PM.


#9 guyakaguy

guyakaguy

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 59 posts

Posted 15 May 2018 - 05:26 AM

I have watched all of them and personally think that we need more Richard Wolffs and Peter Josephs (and Jimmy Dores) to attempt to shift the overton window of the undecided masses, especially in the US. I also think that a "reasoned discourse" in the western world involves actually listening to the people who are fairly critiquing capitalism. There aren't many critiquing capitalism and they've been shunned for the last 80 years or so forgive them if they seem abrasive or overly passionate - their gags started loosening up about 10 years ago and won't be getting put back on any time soon.
  • Alder Logs likes this

#10 Alder Logs

Alder Logs

    ૐ शान्तिः शान्तिः शान्तिः ૐ

  • Moderator
  • 12,942 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 15 May 2018 - 09:19 AM

I remember seeing in the weekday, black and white, comics page, back in the days of Lyndon Johnson's Great Society, in a Wizard of Id strip where the duke asks the king, "Well, sire, how goes the War on Poverty?"

 

The king replies, "Great, we're winning!"

 

Incredulous, the duke responds, "How can you say that when there are still beggars in the streets?"

 

The king grins, "They're losing."

 

===========================

 

All our past presidents have become millionaires (if they weren't already -- and it didn't take Obama long), but only one is out there doing anything.  Jimmy Carter helps provide shelter for the poor, working with his hands and heart.






Like Mycotopia? Become a member today!