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An unbiased collective thread on Kratom - Submit any links you have


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#1 Nsnail

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Posted 20 May 2018 - 10:50 PM

I'll start this post off by saying that I've just recently started taking kratom for back pain relief and for an energy boost that doesn't make me jittery - caffeine usually makes me jittery and intensifies my anxiety.  I told some family members about it and when they looked it up they found a bunch of posts saying its dangerous and works through the brains opiate receptor(s).  They are worried that its potentially addictive and try to go as far as relating it to heroin.

 

Bottom line is - I'm not taking it to get strung out, although the high is different and rather enjoyable.  I'm using it to boost my productivity and alleviate some minor back pain, sort of as a nootropic if you will.

 

So now I'm gathering the best info I can find to show them it's not as bad as they think.  At the same time I figured we could probably use something like this on the topia for anyone else new or that isn't aware of the benefits of this amazing plant.

 

I'll edit this post and add any links and info that is dropped here, and hopefully this turns into a very informational post!

 

Links:

 

https://www.americankratom.org/science - a decent collection of tid bits on kratom, although brief

 

https://www.american...entific-studies - various scientific studies

 

https://d3n8a8pro7vh....pdf?1485630505 - 8 Factor analysis by Dr. Jack Henningfield

 

 


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#2 Sidestreet

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 05:11 AM

I'm glad you're brave enough to share your use of kratom as a medicine with your family.  I hope you'll keep talking to them about it so that they can become knowledgeable. 

 

Anyone who relates kratom to heroin knows very little about either substance.  Unfortunately I've heard that comparison made a few times as well.  Mixed in with the hysterical headlines are many voices with good points to make about pain relief and recovery from addiction.  Use is widespread but deaths are few, especially in comparison with the deaths from opiate use.  You might want to find some numbers to compare kratom-associated deaths with those from pills and heroin.


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#3 Skywatcher

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 08:46 AM

I'm glad you are sharing your beneficial use with people you know. I have been using Kratom daily for well over a year now. My family knows and has gained some realistic perspective from my talking about it. I also make it no secret from my doctors and health professionals. I have been surprised at how many are not knowledgeable, or even know what it is. I give them good first hand experience for its pain relieving abilities, and what it does not do, which is make me lethargic sluggish and drowsy like the opiates do.

 

I got my doctors attention on my last visit when I explained to him that it was the Kratom that helps me be more active, and suppress the pain in my knee during the day when I need to be mentally and physically  "with it", and that it was the Kratom that keeps me from needing the vicoden  near as much or as often. He can see from my refill frequency that I do what I have told him, which is to take a half only when I need to, about 3 times a week, with a muscle relaxant. The Kratom is effective during the day. I am cleared for a knee replacement now, but I am not ready to deal with the down time and that will not be a complete solution.

 

I have never had a negative reaction to not taking the Kratom, so I do not feel it is addictive with normal daily use.

 

I have had a few nurses who knew what it was, and shared my disgust with the bureaucracy that wants to make it illegal, when it is obviously so helpful to many. I will need to look for the articles I have read, which state that the very few fatalitys are actually the result of a mix of other meds on top of the Kratom.


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#4 Nsnail

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 11:13 PM

Sorry I meant to respond earlier but was on my way out the door and spent the rest of my time completing my flow hood project.

I'm going to continue to tell my family about it. They want me to email them links so that's what I'll be working on.

I wanted to address it with my psych guy that prescribes me anxiety meds but I get the feeling most of them just want to prescribe you something...also as a more recent thing they drug test patients due to the current opioid crisis and I feel if they had the same ideas about kratom being an opiate then it would just create a messy situation.

#5 Nsnail

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Posted 21 May 2018 - 11:17 PM

Also glad to hear it's not addictive from average daily use. One thing I was worried about was potentially becoming addicted if I took it everyday

#6 Sidestreet

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 05:18 AM

I experienced some withdrawal symptoms due to heavy use, but it was nothing like what I experienced with Vicodin.  That's why I used the kratom to help me off of the pills.  It worked extremely well.  I did develop a kratom habit for a while but I was able to stop pretty easily once I was ready.

 

I've never used heroin but I know enough about it to know that comparing it to kratom is ludicrous.  The only similarity might be that it acts on the brain with a passing resemblance.  Kratom has been implicated in a few score deaths over the last few years?  The same number of people die from heroin OD in this country in a matter of days.  I've never heard of two parents nodding off in a running car with their child in the back seat--because they took kratom.  I've never seen people in court for home invasions because they needed money for kratom.

 

The thing is, kratom does have a potential for abuse, just like cigarettes, coffee, alcohol, television, cell phones, and so on.  We should be forthcoming about that.  But it's relatively low, and that's not its only characteristic.


Edited by Sidestreet, 22 May 2018 - 05:23 AM.

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#7 Nsnail

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 07:31 AM

From what I've read it sounds more like a dependency on caffeine than say a dependency on an antidepressant

#8 Sidestreet

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Posted 22 May 2018 - 06:09 PM

Well the dependency and the withdrawal were definitely opiate-like.  The difference is in the intensity.  You could say, though, that the difficulty in kicking a kratom habit is a lot closer to kicking caffeine than it is to kicking hard drugs.  I couldn't say what dependency on an antidepressant is like.



#9 Nsnail

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 06:44 AM

Hmm thank you for clearing that up. I've been taking it everyday for almost a week because of the sustained energy. I'm only taking about 4 grams and switching between strains every few days. In that case I'll try to work in a day or two as break days.

Anti depressant / anxiety meds you can miss one day and be alright but after a few days it creates an imbalance that can cause problems. Something you have to taper off of gradually (can't speak for everyone but that has been my experience with Zoloft)

#10 Coopdog

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 01:12 PM

I have been using it for a good five years or more now every single day. I went through a period of heavy usage taking up to five heaping spoonfuls a day for 6 months or more when I found some especially enjoyable strain that was more like extacy than kratom, and I realized how over the top I had been with it for so long, and had some fairly severe withdrawals trying to get back to normal with every step down in dosage producing sweats, shakes, and heart pounding anxiety and extreme sleeplessness as the withdrawal effects. Keep in mind I was ingesting a huge amount for over 6 months or so every single day to produce that dependent status. 

 

That being said, I take two spoonfuls daily now, and if I don't take it, I am fine. Kratom can be addictive in a real life way, but even what I went through that time with it was as to nothing compared to heroin withdrawals, although I think it might have gotten there if I had not had enough stuff to wean it down slowly. Kratom helps with my pain immensely, and is also good for my attitude and energy level. 

 

You can expect your family to flip out of they research it, as the FDA has done a fine job of slandering it with their comparisons to heroin all over the place. I was mortified when they started that because I had been very open about it at work, even to my bosses, and everyone was talking about "Isn't that the stuff you use?" and rolling their eyes like I was some heroin addict. I keep my usage very low key nowadays for that reason. 

 

Peace...


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#11 Soliver

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 04:16 PM

Also glad to hear it's not addictive from average daily use. One thing I was worried about was potentially becoming addicted if I took it everyday

 

Like most divisive issues, both sides sorta have it wrong.

 

Kratom is totally addictive - no questions there.  But so are anti-depressants, which get thrown around like asprin and are basically NEVER said to be "addictive," they just say to wean your dose down over several months (sound familiar?) ...

 

I've been taking kratom for about fifteen years, and I've never really even tried to come off it.  I found that if I use capsules, my usage actually lessens, which is good - I go through less than a kilo a year, but if it disappeared, I'd suffer for sure.  I've just accepted it the way most Americans accept alcoholism, caffeine, refined sugars, porn, screen addiction, and ennui.

 

:)

 

soliver


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#12 Skywatcher

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 09:08 PM

I read some of the crap Mr Gotlieb is tossing out there these days and cringe. The last that really got me was the barrage of letters sent to kratom sellers within the US, demanding they cease promoting Kratoms benefit of helping lessen opiate withdrawal............. 

 

Like that pharmaceutical kingpen has no agenda that would be threatened by access to a relatively safe herbal alternative to methadone and its cousins.

The "Opioid Epidemic" was created and fed by himself and his peers. All this bullshit about now rectifying this horrible epidemic is nothing more than an attempted face saving because they were called out for causing it.

IMO all the studies or research documents they refer to in their rage are twisted and/or fabricated, and not reliable or accurate. 

 

Does it have a potential to be abused? yes

Is it fair to classify it as an opiate? no

 

(edit)

Sorry, I forgot you asked for unbiased, right in the title......Did this sound biased?


Edited by Skywatcher, 23 May 2018 - 09:47 PM.

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#13 Nsnail

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Posted 23 May 2018 - 11:12 PM

I am actually slowly starting to get them to come around. I told my dad about it today who had only heard the name before and he was pretty into all aspects of it including the high, even said he wanted to try it. Of course he hasn't looked it up to see all the wish wash on the net but I did explain pharmaceutical companies are pushing to ban it much like weed. That being said does anyone know if it would be tested for on a lab drug test? It is legal in my state.

As for the bias I should clarify I was more referring to links to articles that have solid facts about the pros and cons, looking for more stuff that isn't scare propaganda that I can show my relatives.

Skywatcher I've been seeing some kratom sites state that they are being prosecuted for telling people kratom helps with withdrawals. I agree with your stance on the whole opiod crisis being created by the very people supplying it although I don't know much about the people you're referring to.

I appreciate y'all sharing your experiences with kratom as now I feel I have made a much more educated decision on this
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#14 Coopdog

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 01:33 AM

I can testify as to it being effective in coming off of opiates. I know two different people who gave up some very deep and long standing opiate addiction with kratom alone and did so with relatively no withdrawals whatsoever. One of them was taking 12-16 percocets a day and had been on them (and other opiates) for twenty years. His doctor told him he would have to give up the Kratom, or he would cut off the percs, and he told the doc he would go with the kratom because the percs did NOT help his pain that much even at that dose. He also said he was also very uneasy and afraid of the opiate withdrawals that he knew were going to come...that never did. Now he can take kratom or leave it at will and the only thing he suffers is his back pain when he goes without. He said he goes without for a few days every month to make sure he is not getting addicted like he did with the opiates. There ya go, firsthand knowledge of people being helped off of opiates with Kratom and very successfully. 


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#15 Skywatcher

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 08:29 AM

I have no idea if blood work will show Kratom. Usually the lab needs to run specific and very expensive tests for any drug screening. It certainly would not show up in routine blood work. It is not an opioid, it does work on some of those receptors, but I believe having none of those alkaloids would not show a false positive. To my knowledge there is not a specific test for Kratom.



#16 coorsmikey

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 12:53 PM

I can personally vouch for the fact Kratom does NOT show up as an opiate on standard drug screens. The ones that most Doctors offices and employers use. Someone would have to be specificity testing or look for mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine. Even then the only reason I can see any thing coming from it would be like the situation Coopdog describes with a physician hold back on prescription opioids.
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#17 Coopdog

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 01:05 PM

My friend was not caught in a test, he had been completely honest with his doctor, and his doctor did a quick google search which of course only shows the FDA's complete lies and their smear campaign stories. I can also vouch that it does not come up in a standard employment drug screen and not even if the doc does one. Another friend got into a car accident and it came up on his drug test that was sent to a lab for wide spectrum analysis but even still it was not deemed a factor in his accident. (Probably because of the general lack of knowledge of what it is) I feel that today after the huge media smear campaign they have done on it that it probably would be a factor in an accident today as the world at large is much more aware of it now. 

 

So if they do a gas chromatography or spectography test it might come up. What that means to them and to you is still up to debate as long as it is not illegal. My place of work started testing for "synthetic" opiates now as well as opiates, so I am a little worried about what will happen if I get hurt on the job, but still fairly confident that Kratom will not come up as it is simply NOT a synthetic opiate. 


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#18 Soliver

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 03:11 PM

I'll also verify that K won't show on any 'normal' urinalysis.  Testing specifically for kratom is possible but expensive and currently useless, as it's not a controlled substance, even where it's illegal to purchase.  That'll change if we don't get our shit together - Sessions still has a hard-on (whatever that looks like) for MJ - we'll see how that pans out.  IMO, there's too much $ in MJ for it to stay illegal, and hopefully the "natural" aspect of K will get caught up in that hysteria.  Time will tell. 

 

Buy bulk - Stop worrying,

 

:)

 

soliver


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#19 whirledpeas

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Posted 24 May 2018 - 10:00 PM

I just had a drug test for my job last week... it came out clean and i take Kratom daily. 


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#20 Juthro

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Posted 25 May 2018 - 01:01 AM

I had to pee in a cup one time cuz I was an on duty crew member on a vessel that was transferring fuel that resulted in a spill....
(OMG!!!! We spilled less then a 1/2gallon of diesel out a transfer hose while it was being disconnected. It did put a hell of'a sheen on the still water of the harbor though)

I had kratom that morning with my coffee, and no problems on my sample.
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