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Surviving Toxic Parents


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#21 onediadem

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Posted 18 July 2018 - 10:43 PM

I don't even know what normal is. I think there are just degrees of crazy. 50 shades of crazy.


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#22 Alder Logs

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 09:43 AM

There must be 50 ways to know you're crazy.

 

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Edited by Alder Logs, 19 July 2018 - 09:50 AM.

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#23 TVCasualty

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Posted 19 July 2018 - 09:44 AM

I just wanted to build a life with someone, but I think I'm too crazy.  The hardest part for me is I never thought of a plan B.

 

 

Some things just aren’t amenable to ‘plans.’ Life being one example.

Surrender, and you win.


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#24 Guy1298

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 01:02 PM

Quite some time ago, I realized that there are people living and dying in dirt. There are people that have conquered their demons, but just as many torn apart by them. Many of my uncles are an example. 

 

I considered that I could be anything. I could be perfect in this or that, or I could be mediocre, or I could be terrible. Terrible might mean that I carry particularly difficult social habits and a mind that abusively reflects on the process, loss after loss. But, for me, there are people living and dying in dirt. We move through it. I see that the life of one of my uncles, living on the street, drunk, on pills, thrown away by family, and abusing his family, is a worthwhile life. My being terrible in some respect is a worthwhile life too. I'm willing to see it, whatever it may be, and no matter how hard it is. 

 

I suppose I'm trying to say that acceptance of everything is possible, even if we appear to be shit or the victim of shit. 

 

 

 

Probably not a good or timely response, but it's a stock response and reflection for me. 


Edited by Guy1298, 07 August 2018 - 01:37 PM.

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#25 oldmushmellow

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Posted 07 August 2018 - 06:19 PM

I'm not one for words so I rarely touch on these deep subjects. But I will tell you I am recovering from toxic parent syndrome. My father was both physically and mentally abusive to me and most my siblings. I always have hated him for it, but tried to get along with him then and later in life, because I felt bad because he is my father and I should keep in touch for, some reason I kept telling myself. Well he never really changed and I have, the last conversation I had with him I confronted him about the past abuse, he did not deny it, just defended his actions as if it was ok to beat the shit out of your kid as punishment, I guess his father did the same. Well I am getting to old to deal with people like him, there is no reason AT ALL I should feel bad by walking away from him and never looking back. That is for him to work on, in this life or the next, he chooses the next or several, I choose this life, I choose to be a better man, I choose not to abuse my kids. I walk on with my head high and my heart full by those who love and treat me with the respect I give them. Will I be sad when he dies (which will be soon)? probably, but I will not feel bad not being there to say 'I love you' on his death bed, to a man who has never said he loves me.

I might have written this so I say "Me too". My father was a paradox, a methodist minister and one of the meanest bastards I have ever met. His belt and I were well acquainted. I did those things like wharfrat said but finally I had to walk away. He died three years later and I still don't regret my actions. Psychedelics definitely helped me cope with a lot of pain in my childhood and I am able to say I'm pretty normal considering. My sister is another story. She has sought mental help most of her adult life because of the trauma my parents put her through.

 

I am truly sorry to hear all of this pain


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#26 elfstone

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 06:25 AM

Frederick Douglass reported the following in his book, Narrative of the Life of Frederick Douglass:

“In August, 1832, my master attended a Methodist camp-meeting held in the Bay-side, Talbot county, and there experienced religion. I indulged a faint hope that his conversion would lead him to emancipate his slaves, and that, if he did not do this, it would, at any rate, make him more kind and humane. I was disappointed in both these respects. It neither made him to be humane to his slaves, nor to emancipate them. If it had any effect on his character, it made him more cruel and hateful in all his ways; for I believe him to have been a much worse man after his conversion than before. Prior to his conversion, he relied upon his own depravity to shield and sustain him in his savage barbarity; but after his conversion, he found religious sanction and support for his slaveholding cruelty. He made the greatest pretensions to piety. His house was the house of prayer. He prayed morning, noon, and night. He very soon distinguished himself among his brethren, and was soon made a class-leader and exhorter. His activity in revivals was great, and he proved himself an instrument in the hands of the church in converting many souls. His house was the preachers’ home. They used to take great pleasure in coming there to put up; for while he starved us, he stuffed them.”

“I have said my master found religious sanction for his cruelty. As an example, I will state one of many facts going to prove the charge. I have seen him tie up a lame young woman, and whip her with a heavy cowskin upon her naked shoulders, causing the warm red blood to drip; and, in justification of the bloody deed, he would quote this passage of Scripture –‘He that knoweth his master’s will, and doeth it not, shall be beaten with many stripes.’ Master would keep this lacerated young woman tied up in this horrid situation four or five hours at a time. … Master Thomas was one of the many pious slaveholders who hold slaves for the very charitable purpose of taking care of them.”

Religion is always used to justify cruelty and violence. It was true in 1492, 1832, and 2018.


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#27 Alder Logs

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 10:13 AM

Flakebook, TwitЯUs, Gaggle, and Y'ube have just deplatformed Frederick Douglass.



#28 darci

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 03:08 PM

When I started school as an undergraduate, I took advantage of the counseling services my university had to offer.  One of my counselors (as I call them – really they were psychologists or psychiatrists) had been working there and talking with college-age people about their various problems for 14 years.
 
I used to think that no one would believe me if I told them the truth of the kinds of things that my mother did, so one day I recorded her for about 15 minutes during one of her bouts (which typically would go on for hours).  I played this recording to my counselor at school.  When it was finished, she excused herself and didn’t come back until my session was nearly over.  When she came back, she was crying, her hands were shaking with tremors, and she remarked to me “I’ve read about these kinds of things, but never actually witnessed something like this.”
 
Without going into the complex stories behind some of the events, I will just save time and put them in a short list.  Here are some of the things my mom has said or done that I was witness to:
 
- Packed up everything in our house and moved without telling my father we were leaving - more than once.
- Smashed a ceramic ashtray on my head.  Needed stitches.
- Quoted scripture to me as she verbally or physically abused me
- Constantly talked (still does) about the rapture / giving up on this world ("Jesus is coming back soon") and when I used to believe this garbage I would sometimes give up in despair thinking life has no meaning or purpose until then.
- Threw a cigarette at me while I was sleeping.  Woke up with the bed on fire.
- Beat me with every instrument, implement, belt, appendage, and device you can imagine.
- Pinched me with her long fingernails to the point of drawing blood.
- Had me sent to a young-person’s mental health “hospital” several times
- Called the police on me for taking her car.  Spent time in jail.
- Spent half her waking hours drunk, the other half on pills
- Thrown up / peed / other things on herself, her bed, sofa, and I cleaned it and her up.
- 99% of the commentary, statements, or communication from her mouth are criticisms/negativity
- Pleaded with me to commit suicide to save her from the trouble of having to deal with me
- Told me and my dad that she was terminally ill, from several different diseases, several times, over several years (and yet she’s still healthy.)  I think she did this for sympathy/attention
- Berated my father in front of me constantly (which I think is why he was hardly ever home)
- Blew threw $1 Million of our savings IN ONE FUCKING YEAR and blamed my father for always being at work.
 
The list goes on.
 
I don’t know why my father married her except that she presents a (fake) but perfect public image of a stepford wife.  If anybody knew her personally, they’d realize she is, in fact, two distinctly different people, and which one you were dealing with depended entirely on her mood in that moment.
 
Growing up as her only child and having her being involved in my life in one way or another even since I’ve been an adult has been the most excruciating experience of my life, bar none.  I would rid myself entirely of her memory if I could, and I’m actually struggling to do this once and for all except right now I am finding myself so utterly and completely exhausted with life and work, and for all my effort I’m practically broke, and she is in control of all my dad’s money since he passed away.
 
I don’t know if I should wait for her to die and hope I get something, come crawling on my knees asking for help, or just forget about it and live as if I’m completely alone in this world.  I certainly feel like it.

Edited by darci, 10 August 2018 - 06:11 PM.


#29 Oneyedraven

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Posted 10 August 2018 - 05:18 PM

Darci- Your story is eerily familiar.. only the names have been changed..old dragnet reference ;-)

 

This scene from the Mad Men finale conveys my empathy for you better than words ever could

 

[Direct Link]


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#30 DonShadow

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 02:06 AM

Flakebook, TwitЯUs, Gaggle, and Y'ube have just deplatformed Frederick Douglass.


Don't forget that these propaganda projectors you (justifiably) condemn are simultaneously facilitating an autonomous global psychoanalytical ritual that may be the only hope this space ball has of escaping self-immolation.

#31 Alder Logs

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 10:17 AM

 

Flakebook, TwitЯUs, Gaggle, and Y'ube...


Don't forget that these propaganda projectors you (justifiably) condemn are simultaneously facilitating an autonomous global psychoanalytical ritual that may be the only hope this space ball has of escaping self-immolation.

 

 

Is there a thread well suited to us having this discussion?  Maybe I can find one, or start one.  I would like to pursue it further and get some clarification and elucidation of your statement.


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#32 DonShadow

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 05:05 PM

Is there a thread well suited to us having this discussion?  Maybe I can find one, or start one.  I would like to pursue it further and get some clarification and elucidation of your statement.

 

 

Sorry, I didn't mean to thread-jack. I'm not sure what might be the best platform to discuss it. I'm working on a piece of writing that I hope will help make this less cryptic. I'll let you know when it's completed.



#33 Alder Logs

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 07:24 PM

Did I get close enough with this new thread?

 

The Promise of an Internet in the Age of Corporate Control
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#34 MsBehavin420

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Posted 11 August 2018 - 08:49 PM

- Spent half her waking hours drunk, the other half on pills
- Thrown up / peed / other things on herself, her bed, sofa, and I cleaned it and her up.


Thats all you need to say.. Shes an alcoholic. Maybe read up on some ACOA (Adult children of alcoholics). Might help you gain some insight.

Remember we aren't bound by the chains that we think makes us who we are. You can be anything or anyone you wanna be

Also, I'm Super interested in your scitzophrenia(sp) and how boomers effect you. I have a friend who's mom suffers from the same thing, also depression and anxiety. (which bee tee dubbz if you have can be effecting your views/the way you see things).. They (my friend and her mom) are seeking a more natural solution and of course mushrooms come up.

#35 darci

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 12:07 AM

MsBehavin420, you just provoked me to talk.  :: cracks knuckles ::

 

So in my late teens I was told that I had a mental disease called Schizophrenia.  Of course, I was already familiar with the word and what it meant, but more importantly what it meant for how people would treat you from then on.  In the case of my mother, having this diagnosis armed her with a weapon that was essentially the nuclear option.  There was just no way I could state my opinion, make a request, assert myself, or contradict my mother from that moment forward.  It wasn't that I was particularly argumentative, (I swear!) but that my mom was such a control freak she thought the entire world would fall apart if she wasn't around to tell everybody exactly what to do.  I could never find a way to reach her as an adult.  Though I might try to engage in argument with her, rationalize, justify, qualify, or explain it meticulously, and be quite correct in terms of logic, convention, and common-sense, nonetheless if my mother and I disagreed, my disagreement was merely additional evidence that was to be heaped on the pile of proof that I had lost my mind.

 

Trying to grow up in this situation was awful.  I oscillated back and forth between behaving like a mousy, lame, tame pet until I couldn't stand the humiliation any more and then everything burst out all at once and I asserted myself like a spring that wound up and suddenly breaks loose.  Of course, this did nothing to improve my situation either and so long as my mom was winding me up I knew it eventually would drive me truly crazy.  The only thing then would be to acquiesce to the shackles and resign to my fate of padded rooms and conversations with myself.

 

Professionals who have diagnosed me will always carry a clout and respect in cultures like ours, even if perhaps they haven't entirely earned it.  Personally, I think there's a disgusting amount of bullshit being thrown around labeled "professional opinion."  Nonetheless, that they say I am crazy does not convince me that I'm flawed or broken in a fundamental, nuts-and-bolts kind of way.  I'm merely what you get when you put an otherwise normal human being through the ringer.  I think I haven't lost my mind, I'm just damaged and always on-guard, always afraid, always feeling empty and alone.  I hear my mom's criticisms in my mind whenever I look in the mirror, or during most of the day when I'm around others and feeling self-conscious and vulnerable.  It's constant anxiety, like someone suffering from shellshock, even though the war is over and there are no more bombs.  It takes years to calm down.  Some never do.

 

I didn't want to be that person, which is why I turned to mushrooms seriously.  There were a couple of relatively unimportant episodes of drug experimentation when I was younger, but it was around 2009 that I really dove in to intentionally bring about some kind of release, resolution, or healing.  Of course, what I got wasn't always what I understood to be the direct route.  There was a lot of new introspection, new and renewed emotions, a mindset that I could experience for a few hours which placed all my cards on the table for me to see, so that I may examine them and think with my heart and do with them what was better than what I had done.  And also, the unexplainable surprises, which themselves offer a serendipitous kind of healing.

 

Mushrooms have reconnected me with the mystery and beauty of being alive.  For all the analysis mankind has given the mushroom, I don't think a single one of us has held the truth in their mind of what they are, what we are, or precisely what we're doing together.  I think that maybe each one of us is trying to hold on to a realm of ideas so big that it takes all of humanity together to begin to truly perceive it.

 

Well, maybe that's enough for now.

 

- Darci.


Edited by darci, 12 August 2018 - 12:09 AM.

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#36 onediadem

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 01:00 AM

I was diagnosed with bipolar a couple decades ago. I rarely share that with real life people because that is what they see, and anything they do not approve of gets blamed on the diagnosis. To use it against me in an argument to validate a point of view against mine is in fact nauseating to me. I cannot tell you how many people have gotten violent with me for not co-signing their opinions ~because I am not sane enough to obviously know what is best for me.. (Or more importantly, them)

 

Gak, I feel you on that front. Eliminate chaos junkies.



#37 MsBehavin420

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 07:52 AM

Both of my parents are diagnosed with BP. Dad's a drug addict drunk. And moms a Saint with Huntingtons Disease. I stopped speaking to my father when he brought his New junkie wife over(who stole from my daughter and was giving my old stepmom heroin....)and gave my man the middle finger standing in our driveway
I've been officially diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, add, adhd, depression and anxiety. They loaded me with pills. And I got fat. Which made me depressed more.
That's about all that it did.
didn't relieve my anxiety or depression. But that's bc I was surrounded by assholes..
and my add/adhd is a gift the universe bestowed on me. Sure I can't really function with the boring day to day activities but you just wait till that pressure is on, and man can i function...
it's about finding where you feel comfortable.
you'd probably be better off just walking away from your mom. And in case noone told you yet.... It's OK to say no. Just bc theyre blood doesn't mean You owe anyone anything. You're an old lady now, you have enough wisdom under your belt to know what you like and don't like and how you like To be treated and how you don't.
I haven't spoken to my father on my terms since the middle finger incident.
I did text him to let him know his mother was dying and died and he never showed. He tried last September (of course his birthday 9/11) and has since went me into a one track mind focus on how much I hate him and wish he died years ago. But thats bc moms sick and thay whole death do us part bullshit which is Why I won't get married.... (cuz it don't matter to anyone).
I keep up with one cousin bc I love him and he loves me. But we don't see each other just some Facebook banter... I dont give out details about my life.. I just talk about the now. The family pinned us against each other (when the step moms were theiving and blamed me and my cousin for stealing from My baby) (do eagle scouts even steal?). So that stuck a giant ice pick into our relationship. Then he became a police officer for the environmental protection, which has furthered the distance between us. Losing the rest of the fam is fine but me losing my cousin.... Was the absolute worst thing ever. Won't let him go yet. Hope he doesn't do me wrong and report back to the jerk. But he was abused with me by my dad.. So I'm pretty sure I can trust him.
Dad would take us places and leaveus so he could go cop drugs. We were about 5 and my father took us to the movies. We stopped off on the way. Dad gave us some quarters for the arcade games at Modells and vanished. We spent our money playing and walked around the store for a long while. Eventually dad came to get us and we went to the movies where dad fell asleep.

Edited by MsBehavin420, 12 August 2018 - 08:02 AM.


#38 darci

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 09:03 AM

msbehavin,

 

You needed real parents.  The kind that stick together, are on the same team, behave like grown-ups, and love and care for you the way real parents do.

 

They say you can't blame your parents (or you can't blame your parents forever) - and it's true, it isn't healthy to hold on to such ideas, even if it seems warranted.  But I've never known somebody who was well-adjusted and happy who didn't also have parents who were quite different from mine.

 

I think my dad was home maybe 1 day in 10.  The rest of the time, I had to deal with my mom alone.  It's been over 30 years since she worked any kind of job, and I think her essentially being under house arrest for 30 years brought out the worst in her.

 

To those who say "get over it," I'd ask you - if you're a parent, can you imagine how you'd feel if you had to watch your child be mistreated by someone?  Why would you be upset?  Is it because damage you do to a child can hurt them for the rest of their lives?

 

I'm still trying to get over it;  maybe it's still my fault.

 

I think it's almost time to take a trip again.



#39 Alder Logs

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Posted 12 August 2018 - 11:25 AM

Do we really need to define ourselves?   Others must define us, so long as they self-define.   When they stop, they free us.   When we stop, we free ourselves. 

 

My story has its diagnoses, it's true.   What happened is I saw the story was just a story, and one that could be told a million different ways, each creating a varied definition.   The stories had parents, peers, teachers, institutions, injuries, trauma, misjudgments, injustices...   They also had the star performance in a 'me' character.   When I saw all was just this interactive story program, and not even me, the operator, was stable.  Then I saw how all the stories, with their own stars, playing out their own programs, were running on each expression of a me.   Me is the most important thing to every me.  I saw my me was not more than a perception in identification.   When the identification changed, the me changed.   When I didn't take something personally, it no longer mattered, didn't exist as real, actually. 

 

In the question, "who am I," or, "what am I," where do I find what is real and true, through all the varied perspectives of any movement through time?   The only thing that does not vary is outside of time, has always been here.   I see it all.   I watch the stories play out.  Who am I? 

 

If I, for one instant, take identity as a character in some version of "my" story, I must pretend I didn't see it to be it.  But, what in this life has happened outside awareness?   Where is awareness?   Can I know awareness inside some perceived other?   I only know it as I am.   In awareness, I see the characters I thought I was were not true, more than as the story I believed in a single instant, and likely to change in the next.    The seeing only was stable, but only knowable as such when "I" was not personally invested, as some version of my character in the play. 

 

I, this expression of the life, didn't stop being when the identification had been seen through.  The memories didn't disappear from the body/mind expression.  The seemingly isolated position in apparent space, with its particular moving points of perspective are still in awareness.   But one thing that has changed with the dissolution of the shape-shifting personal identity is this, the center of perception is no longer between the ears and behind the eyes, it is centered about the heart.  That character, with all its intrigues and strategies, when it arises, is seen going about its habitual conditioned responses to its believed in environments.   If it crosses what the heart would have, it is immediately known, and so, more likely to be tempered in its performance as the character. 

 

I now possess one hell of a lot of I Don't Know.   Why the father that beat the child, me, I don't know.   I don't know anything.   I see how easy it is to see belief as knowledge, but it's not.   When I look at what I once said I knew, I see I didn't really know.   The personal me could build a hell of a case for any of its core beliefs, but insisting on truth, it didn't even know itself.   The idea of oneself is a will-o-the-wisp, ready to be whatever it has to to prove to itself it is true.   We are prisoners of identity, until we see it, until we set our selves free, as the eternal awareness which we always have been.  

 

To survive our stories of toxic anything, what must we be?   Is it, us and them, forever?   When it's known in this present instant as the story it is, and we, just the seeing of it, without taking some personal side, then the next instant, should it seem to arise, can be met in freedom.   Then, the only next free step is to stay in witness, in awareness.   When the freedom from those story's hells we believed so real is known, there is only gratitude.   We are not what we think.   What we think has had us long enough.   We are the seeing itself.


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#40 MsBehavin420

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Posted 13 August 2018 - 09:10 AM

Well currently I'm my mother's care taker. Of course I am... I'm an only and a divorced kid..
This is of course all bc I refuse to do to her what she's done to me, which mom worries gravely about. I came home one day, my daughter was about 3, and the locks were changed. I was fighting her father in court for a whopping $30 in support. And had to get emancipated to get assistance bc i was under 21. And she and I ended up in a homeless shelter. A private run place but a homeless shelter regardless.
Dad and dad's family let me rot in there too. I wasn't a bad kid. But mom was super controlling.
ex: I was 16 and 6months pregnant. Mom found my pager and took it away. I wasn't allowed to have a pager. A kid was fine but a bill I paid myself, oh no no




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