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Stone producer group grow


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#401 Moonless

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 01:54 AM

"

:wacko: I figured out my problem. More research revealed that stone producers make fruits on low nutrition and stones on high nutrition. I looked at two tamp plates left over from another project [on MYA with double the Y] they are forming stones in just half the time these 34 other transfers have had.

Well I got a chance to sector these out, ditch the poor performers, and emphasize the hyphal knotters. Now I'll just put them on the correct media! :laugh:

I'm glad I started a bonus MS grow. Two jars for fruiting, 98% colonized. Two jars for stoning, 98% colonized.

 

Funny thing, I just realized of 17 plates of this coffee wheat extract agar there wasn't a single speck of contam.

"

 

Is this just the case for AGAR? It seem like any sort of grain spawn, or even a weird "cake" of cardboard and flour is a high nutrition and will make stones. 

 

Nice going sucess rate! Have you surveyed these ones stones and fruit before?

 

Im planning on getting tampanesis going to survey the mycelium activity. According to an comment on post a few years ago by soliver, the mycelium is active too. Would be something cool to check out.

 

Thanks for sharing newmoon and Elrick.



#402 RutgerHauer

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 06:15 AM

@Moonless:

 

Interesting! I haven't read into stones yet because I would much rather get the fruits from the tampanensis MS in my fridge.  It's good to know if I want to attain that goal I should be aiming for low nutrition. Seems logical to think that for the mycelium to get out of that low nutrition environment quickly, the strategy would be forming fruit bodies and thus producing spores.

 

I seem to remember  (or maybe i made that up myself) that water content of the substrate might have some influence on sclerotia formation vs. fruit formation, can anybody elobarate on that? Sorry if I'm asking a question with a well known answer.


Edited by RutgerHauer, 25 November 2019 - 06:16 AM.


#403 Moonless

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 07:01 AM

,

@Moonless:

 

Interesting! I haven't read into stones yet because I would much rather get the fruits from the tampanensis MS in my fridge.  It's good to know if I want to attain that goal I should be aiming for low nutrition. Seems logical to think that for the mycelium to get out of that low nutrition environment quickly, the strategy would be forming fruit bodies and thus producing spores.

 

I seem to remember  (or maybe i made that up myself) that water content of the substrate might have some influence on sclerotia formation vs. fruit formation, can anybody elobarate on that? Sorry if I'm asking a question with a well known answer.

I've never experienced growing Tampanensis, currently working on it right now :) I had read Elrik's previous post on their endevour to isolate a strong stonning ;) isolate and a strong pinning isolate. They had researched that a less nutritious AGAR will form primordia, while higher nutrition AGAR tended to develop small sclerotia more readily.

 

Here is a post I pulled from the vaults about Tampanensis growing from grass seeds :) I know nothing about grass seeds and their nutritional value compared to the grains more commonly used such as brown rice or rye.

https://mycotopia.ne...ispore-mycobag/

 

It seems that whatever grain spawn one choose will most likely form sclerotia. NewMoon had a jar above with cardboard, flour and popcorn that was forming stones, they also showed a jar of brown rice with stones too. Knowing this my hypotheses is that that genetics play bigger role in deciding which fruits it will produce hence Elrik needing to isolate, just using nutritional content as a guidline.


Edited by Moonless, 25 November 2019 - 07:09 AM.

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#404 newmoon

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Posted 25 November 2019 - 10:45 AM

Someone who's worked with these species more can correct me if I'm wrong, but in my limited experience I don't think any heroics are necessary for either fruiting or stone production. Proceeding as with cubensis with a casing seems to work fine for fruits. I even had some of my jars on rice (about as highly nutritious of a substrate as one will have) produce weird, spindly little fruits neglect tek style!

 

Similarly, if you let your jars sit long enough it seems like they'll generally produce sclerotia.


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#405 ElrikEriksson

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Posted 27 November 2019 - 01:49 PM

Cool on the neglect tek fruits.

The impression I get is that the majority of fruiting difficulty people get is with senescent clonal lines [like from store bought stones] and from bloodlines that have been selected exclusively for stones for too many generations.

 

Does anyone know what visual clues there are for mexicana and tampanensis monokaryons?

I know for cubensis its no trace of rhizomorphic growth, a disorganized cottony steel wool appearance, little or no radial striations, and obviously no sectoring. But, really, that just means it looks very similar to tampanensis mycelium :laugh: I just know the tamp and mex monos wont make pins or stones.

I started some mexicana plates and the 12 smallest, structurally simplest, most isolated points of growth from one dish were transferred to MYA in hopes of isolating monokaryons.
With how the mexicana fruitbodies are loved, and with how vigorous growth is on ATL#7, I'm hypothesizing that something awesome could be selected from a hybrid of the two.



#406 Sicshroom

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Posted 28 November 2019 - 07:22 AM

I used vender bought spores and had success with stones and fruits. I still have 3 jars that have been sitting almost 13 months with huge stones inside. To get fruits I harvested the stones and put the used brf sub back in the container it came out of I cased it and misted it and fruit were very easy to get and I have alot of them.....
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#407 newmoon

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Posted 30 November 2019 - 06:04 PM

Here are some more tampanensis paper/flour cakes forming sclerotia.

resized000.jpg resized001.jpg

 

These look fully colonized, so I'm going to case with damp vermiculite and put them in terrariums (32oz deli container, a few holes covered with medical tape for air) to see if they'll fruit.


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#408 ElrikEriksson

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 12:32 AM

I need someone to tell me if I'm tripping :laugh:

I've got a semi-isolate colonized to and consolidating in three jars while I decide what substrate to spawn to and get around to it.

The jars are filled with red wheat with very few burst grains.

These nodules are growing against the glass, they are not burst grains, exploding grains, or grains turning to mush, they start as a fuzz ball between grains and grow into a nodule.

200_9382.jpg

Those are stones, yes?

 

The reason I'm wary is that the semi-isolate doing this is a Pan. cyan. 'Alabama'.

The only other Pan. culture I have making these is a MS made from the plate that this semi-isolate was ultimately derived from.



#409 coorsmikey

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 10:31 AM

They looks like the beginning of stones from here. Yes. I've seen some strains of pans and cubes do this too. Not to the same degree and size of many of the species that we consider Stone producers but at least some micro-stones. 


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#410 ElrikEriksson

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Posted 02 December 2019 - 01:09 PM

Nice. I'll wait a while longer and then spawn out just one jar to see if I can get enough mini-stones for a cup of tea.
The only problem is I don't know if I should use 4 grams or 14, since they're pans I'll start with 4 :laugh:

Edit: I've seen reports of a few lines of Pan jam do this, but what cubes have you seen do this?

Edited by ElrikEriksson, 02 December 2019 - 01:10 PM.

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#411 ElrikEriksson

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 08:00 AM

This surprised me.

I've been hunting monokaryons and I got a real good harvest from a Psi. mexicana plate. Anyway, I've repeatedly read that a good stoning selection criteria when growing mexicana and tampanensis on agar is to look on the under side and look for a dark region where its forming a stone. Since stones are strongly associated with fruiting in mexicana I assumed stones would not form in monokaryotic cultures any more than pins would. My microscope has a different opinion.

All of the cultures not crossed out are genetically unique monokaryotic isolates. I double checked them all, the sampling was from the center of the mycelial mass and not the leading edge, I examined 20-30 cell-cell junctions on each isolate, there were no clamp connections, they are monokaryotic. And some are making stones!

Ps.me.'CN'-MK2019B1.jpg Ps.me.'CN'-MK2019B2.jpg Ps.me.'CN'-MK2019B3.jpg

You can guess which ones are top of the list to breed with things :laugh:


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#412 ElrikEriksson

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 01:24 AM

It's not just mexicana :biggrin:

Monokaryotic Psi. tampanensis var. pollock:

200_9497.jpg 200_9505.jpg

These are two of the more impressive stoning monos I found in this variety, I'm reasonably sure the plate of 3 is all the same isolate.

 

This was an accidental score. When farming monokaryons I use a very careful, delicate, and intentional technique. This crop was simply a tampanensis grow-out where I took a bunch of transfers from a MS plate to look for stone formers to fruit. I wasn't even going to check them for clamp connections but when I started clearing plates after transfers I decided to use some of them to get more practice staining and mounting mycelium to slides. I immediately started finding monokaryotic strains all over the place! [Even 3 colonies, probably just one isolate, that produced knots that never matured to pins, oddly enough]

A good accident, if I hadn't checked I would have assumed all the monos were non-fruiting strains after trying to fruit them! :laugh:

 

While I don't doubt that non-fruiting dikaryotic strains exist I suspect many non-fruiting strains people find are, in fact, monokaryons they didn't know they isolated.

Its even possible to get a monokaryotic isolate from a mushroom clone, as the leading edge of a dikaryotic colony is often monokaryotic.

 

I'm starting to think that the way to really find a good stoning strain might turn out to be selecting the best stoning monokaryons to join into dikaryotic strains. :cool:



#413 Moonless

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 07:16 AM

Someone who's worked with these species more can correct me if I'm wrong, but in my limited experience I don't think any heroics are necessary for either fruiting or stone production. Proceeding as with cubensis with a casing seems to work fine for fruits. I even had some of my jars on rice (about as highly nutritious of a substrate as one will have) produce weird, spindly little fruits neglect tek style!

 

Similarly, if you let your jars sit long enough it seems like they'll generally produce sclerotia.

 

When you were growing on rice how was the colonization speed?

 

I might be quite impatient with it all but the tampanensis is going slow and steady on both the brown rice agar and grain. I keep telling myself I need more patience but still everyday I love to check their progress.


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#414 RutgerHauer

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 07:26 AM

Hey Moonless, I am wondering how you are keeping the jars, are they in a closed off area or do they get light? I was doing colonization in the dark but found out recently that giving them a light cycle of some sorts might be helpful.



#415 Moonless

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 07:30 AM

Hey Moonless, I am wondering how you are keeping the jars, are they in a closed off area or do they get light? I was doing colonization in the dark but found out recently that giving them a light cycle of some sorts might be helpful.

Hello to you to Mr.Hauer,

 

Its a good think I check them each day lol. I keep them in the cardboard box.


Edited by Moonless, 13 December 2019 - 07:31 AM.


#416 RutgerHauer

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Posted 13 December 2019 - 07:43 AM

Yeah I think it would be a good thing to change that. The mycelium might benefit from a natural circadian rhythm, just like we do. I do not think that a few minutes a day will give them that rhythm.

 

I was under the impression that it wasn't necessary and I was supposed to emulate the mycelium being 'underground', but that is not helpful. Also if you close the box it might decrease gas exchange.. when I had the lid on my box and removed that once a day I could smell the air being pent up in there when it got out.


Edited by RutgerHauer, 13 December 2019 - 07:47 AM.


#417 newmoon

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Posted 03 January 2020 - 12:50 AM

What's the consensus on long-term storage for stones? Looks like people were thinking freezing was better than drying?



#418 newmoon

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Posted 05 January 2020 - 11:51 AM

Harvested about 200g of Ps. tampanensis sclerotia from two jars, one quart jar grown on brown rice and one 1.5 pint jar grown on buckwheat. Decided I'm going to try drying these, so they're in the dehydrator. I cased the rest of the substrate in trays to see if they'll fruit.

 

tamp_sclerotia.jpg


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