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Trichocereus pachanoi - need experienced people's advice


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#21 Skywatcher

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 11:25 AM

A deeper "blue" toning is usually a good indicator, but not foolproof. If you are planting in a dry cactus mix, there is not much risk of the cut developing a rot condition, and roots will form equally well in dry soil or on a shelf. I personally believe maybe better in warm soil as the temp of the dirt does not fluctuate as rapidly.

 

I am also a fan of the dry powder "root tone", which is a rooting hormone. It stimulates root production, and inhibits rot.

At the end of the day, until you test run a cactus, you do not know its potency unless as Myc said, the cutting comes from a cactus that has been already proven to be of good potency.

 

I think you are over analysing this coleman.........................

If the scars feel hard and solid, dust them with rooting hormone if you have it, or not if you don't, and plant them just deep enough to hold still, about 1" or at max, 2 inches deep. Use a good loose cactus mix dry. You can support with a few chopsticks if you need to help them stay upright. If the dirt is kept warm, you should have some roots showing within a month, or sometimes a bit longer.

 

I will carefully lift my cuttings to verify roots. Once I see some, I replant at the same depth and tamp down the dirt more  securely and then give them a nice drink. These cactus are actually pretty hardy and want to grow.

Just let them do that................................ :biggrin:


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#22 Coopdog

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Posted 19 October 2018 - 04:27 PM

The only thing I could possibly add to that is that they can survive two years (And often more) of laying in a shelf completely without water when they are that size. They retain their moisture very well. If they have been laying around that long they are probably just fine to plant. I was going totally from the visual shot you posted showing the bottom of the cuttings, and it appeared a little green in the picture. That length of time should have it be ready to plant. 

 

Skywatcher I have not had any at all that rooted anywhere close to a month, but I live in a cooler wet climate in the pacific NW. Most of mine took a good 5-6 months even into next season before new growth showed, but mine were not heated at all so maybe slowed the process. I have a nice bridgessii cutting that fell off my oldest bridgessii cutting which is 5 inches thick! When I got it, it sat on a shelf for a few months in a box, and when I opened it, it had etoliated a 4 inch long very thin tip in there in the dark. When I planted it, it retained that thin spot and grew like a baseball bat until the top was about 15 inches long, then it snapped off when I was moving it. It still looks like a baseball bat but should be a good one coming from that old 5 inch thick cutting. 

 

I have another given to me by a guy who I knew and greatly respected from this site who is no longer a member, that said he sent me his prize Peruvianis cutting that assayed at 4.5 % finished product. He said that is quite rare and amazing and that tea from it would be a definite good surprise when I got some in time. It now has a two foot section with a crack at the base and two nice pups. That two foot section with the crack just might have an accident over the Christmas break lol. 

 

Someone said skip the Pachanoi and go get some Bridgessii. I actually have had some amazing experiences with Pachanoi, and a couple of sort of jarring experiences with Bridgessii, leading me to believe that I think I like the Pachanoi better. This comes from a place of limited exposure to good Bridgessii though as the ones I had the not so pleasant experiences with were young and not really matured into their true beauty yet. Just food for thought. I really love the experiences that Pedro has brought me to. 

 

Peace man!


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#23 coleman318

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Posted 20 October 2018 - 08:39 AM

Thank you everyone for your replies. Holy shit I did not know these cactus could sit that long, I’ve been freaking out because I know they still have to root before they can take up any water and I was getting concerned for the fellas!

Okay I need to be taken to school, bare with me here. I have my pachanoi “LER” and bridgesii “Lee”. Assuming that these cultivars are not self-sterile (I read somewhere pc is self-sterile? Does this mean one cannot obtain seed from pc that it is clone only?)

Theoretically, I am growing my cacti and my pachanoi LER flowers and I manage to fertilize the flower and seed is produced. The seed from the pachanoi LER is no longer the genetics of the cutting I have growing, it’s a database for all the genetic code possibilities meaning that I could end up with cactus that are less or more potent than the LER cutting I originally possess? Is this accurate?

Myc one thing about peruvianus that worries me is it’s close resemblance to cuzcoensis. I notice it’s not as popular as bridgesii or pachanoi but I think the peruvianus looks the best visually. I am all ears if you know of somebody with legitimate peruvianus seed I would be a customer!
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#24 Myc

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Posted 21 October 2018 - 04:51 PM

Bouncing Bear Botanicals - I've provided a hyperlink to their seed offering. 

If you'll take a moment, they also have a little story to tell about Peruvianus which seems relevant to your queries. 

Also take awhile to explore their site in general, you'll find it filled with useful information to add to your ongoing education. 


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#25 coleman318

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Posted 22 October 2018 - 01:17 PM

I thought I would post a picture of the garage setup with two pachanoi a peruvian apple, grandiflora, two exhinopsis multiplex (one was a pup of the mother) various orchids and a decorative ivy we form Christmas time and a hydrangea that was almost dead.
Mfinally figured out how to resize my images or took the time to find out on my iPhone lol. Still a work in progres.

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Edited by coleman318, 22 October 2018 - 01:58 PM.

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#26 coleman318

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 09:34 AM

Alrighty so I had planned on buying a vornado heater to have it keep it at a temperature of 70 degrees fereinheit but that new grow light I just installed used metal heatsinks to distribute heat instead of fans. Well the new LED gets really really hot which is good for now, it increased the soil temperature by 11 degrees fereinheit so now the soil temperature for my cactus is 70-72 degrees fereinheit which is much better than 58-62 degrees. I am hoping that when the temperature drops even lower than I can maintain a soil temperature of 66 degrees or higher throughout the day and at night let the temperatures with the garage door shut should he just the right amount of change in temperature they need.
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#27 Coopdog

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 12:35 PM

When I first got into cacti, I tried hard to keep mine growing healthy all winter. I had a mix of HPS and Ceramic MH for lighting which is a good full spectrum. I had a pretty decent and long running pot grow going and gave my cacti prime ground in the middle of the two lights. The first two winters I had bad etolliation, and they grew too tall and either fell over or broke. I decided to try hibernating them, and put them in an office that is not often lit and they still etolliated because of the light coming in to the window. Next year I put them in the bathroom and put some styrofoam insulation over the window and left them, and finally got them to hibernate. This gave me nice phatass columns like they should be, and now they are up to my chest and as thick as 4-5 inches across and growing like they should.

 

That being said I wish you well trying to get good growth year round. It sounds like you are being a lot more technical than I was being in my approach. I didn't utilize the awesome knowledge base we have here at Topia much either, thinking I knew how to grow everything lol. I found I did better letting them hibernate than trying to get them to grow year round. If you can get good growth like that you should be able to pack on the weight pretty fast. 

 

Also my cacti get natural light in the summer sitting on the SouthWest side of the house and get sun most of the day during the warm months. That seems to be the magic bullet for them and gives them what they need to be happy. I had no luck at all trying to keep them happy under lights, but I have seen others do it. Interested to see how yours do man! 

 

Peace...


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#28 pharmer

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 03:11 PM

It was probably me who said skip the Pachanoi.

 

What I meant was if you're like a certain dumbass whose name will not be mentioned (Pharmer) you'll grow 400 feet of Pachanoi in thirty pots before you realize you like Bridges better because you like the ride better and you don't need nearly as many to keep you stocked with tea. As if you could possibly consume that much Pachanoi tea in ten years  :)

 

My point?  Bridges are prettier and you need less of them to keep you and a friend well supplied with the goodies.


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#29 coleman318

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 09:51 AM

Definitely understand that point, I was also interested in extracting mescaline HCL or acetate or followinany other one of the legitimate teks our there since I wouldn’t need to consume the cactus for that I thought it would be a good thing since I grow in the Pacific Northwest it’s not always the best for cactus
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#30 coleman318

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 09:55 AM

I just posted a question and I don’t see it anywhere I hope it doesn’t magically appear lol. Down the line as the bridgesii “lee” and the bridgesii “BBB” become mature and flower I can use each of their pollen on one another to obtain seed? Then I can grow out the seed seeking a more desirable trait whether it’s looks or potency than the original cuts? Or were the cuts probably already maximized to their seed potential? That last part sounds ridiculous I know but I am really missing a few key parts to this lol.

For my main question, has anyone tried both the BBB cut and Lee cut? Which one do you prefer?

Edited by coleman318, 25 October 2018 - 10:20 AM.


#31 Coopdog

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 12:35 PM

Probably depends on the actual cactus farmer you bought from if any creative isolated breeding occurred and sort of doubtful with most of them. Probably open pollinated with little control of specific isolated superior genetics like you would find with marijuana connisseurs. There are a few popular and legendary named cuttings out there (One was called Kate) that have been used in crosses specifically, probably through paint brush pollination that would still be a bit on the shady side in my book because there were probably other male flowers in the general vicinity, so without a degree in genetic science and a lab you probably couldn't tell the difference to the average user. 

 

Yeah Pharmer I feel you on the going overboard on the production end. I only have about ten now, but damn they sure take up a lot of real estate in my bathroom while they hibernate and it gets worse every year. I only have a couple of Bridgessii in there and man I would be jumpy if they were all that spikey lol. I keep the Bridgessii out of the way of normal traffic, but even the Pachanoi and Peruvianis get me occasionally. 


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#32 Coopdog

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Posted 26 October 2018 - 01:35 AM

By the way man I am in the PNW too. We might be neighbors!



#33 Trich

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Posted 26 October 2018 - 09:24 AM

Bouncing Bear Botanicals - I've provided a hyperlink to their seed offering. 

If you'll take a moment, they also have a little story to tell about Peruvianus which seems relevant to your queries. 

Also take awhile to explore their site in general, you'll find it filled with useful information to add to your ongoing education. 

Cactus Kate has something similar but for their bridgesii strain, iirc.

 

Cactusplaza was always good to me too



#34 coleman318

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Posted 26 October 2018 - 12:40 PM

Okay another question for the topiates,
I just measured my cuttings:

Cactus sizes

Trichocereus bridgesii “BBB” diameter is 1-3/4”; length is 10 3/4”.

Trichocereus bridgesii “Lee” diameter is 2 1/4”; length is 11”

Trichocereus pachanoi “LER” diameter is 3 3/8”; length is 11”

There are a lot more to measure but for the sake of this conversation I am trying to find out when a pachanoi is mature what is it’s maximum diameter? Also for bridgesii when mature how many cm or inches would the max bridgesii size across be? I’m assuming they get a maximum girth then just keep growing length wise. Not positive about that but would like some information :P

#35 Skywatcher

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Posted 26 October 2018 - 05:45 PM

Okay another question for the topiates,
I am trying to find out when a pachanoi is mature what is it’s maximum diameter? Also for bridgesii when mature how many cm or inches would the max bridgesii size across be? I’m assuming they get a maximum girth then just keep growing length wise. Not positive about that but would like some information 

I don't know the absolute maximum, but this Pachanoi is the biggest diameter I have seen, and was taken from a "grandfather" specimen that was estimated at over 50 years old. It is the cactus at the far left. This cactus cutting was about 6 and 1/2 inches in diameter. That was a 5 gallon pot I rooted it in.

 

gallery_126525_1041_503422.jpg

 

Bridgesii are going to vary by the specific cultivar. I have a young Icaros that has already hit 4 1/2" diameter, and is a pup under 3 years old. Someone with older Bridgesii can probably supply some better statistics on that. P Torch, in my experience, seems to run in general to be larger diameter than most Pedro, but there are going to be exceptions........


Edited by Skywatcher, 26 October 2018 - 05:47 PM.


#36 coleman318

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Posted 26 October 2018 - 09:40 PM

I read that tmboth pachanoi and bridgesii can in fact get huge, up to 5 meters tall and very large just like you stated I think I heard the maximum was just slightly over the diameter you mentioned that one is.

This is on Bolivian torch bridgesii

“When left to grow undisturbed, it can grow as tall as a tree with some specimens reaching 5 meters in height!

The diameter if this cactus can reach 15 centimeters and because of its size, large specimens are often mislabeled as Trichocereus peruvianus. Bolivian Torch cactus have 4-6 needle-like yellow spines. These vary in appearance and length. Some large plants in windy areas lose their spines completely.

This cactus strain puts out white flowers which are 20 centimeters in length and 10 centimeters in diameter. These flowers come out at night and once fertilized, they produce fruits which are 5 centimeters long. These fruits have white petals, small scales, and hair all over.”

This came from truffle magic website which surprise these aren’t truffles so who knows how legit this is.

Edited by coleman318, 26 October 2018 - 10:28 PM.


#37 coleman318

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Posted 27 October 2018 - 02:18 PM

Okay everyone. As people can see I am newbie with passion for this hobby and I had a few extra cactus that I would not be unhappy if I got less than ideal results from me trying to root a couple cacti in a non conventional manner that people I look up to recommended against. I continued on for science sake since I was ultimately curious.

3 lucky pachanoi potentialy PC got the jar and paper towel treatment on October 18th. I had these logs sitting in my bedroom on a towel for close to a month in room temperature and the blinds were closed most of the time so it was very little ambient light.

I noticed one of the three already shot out a root and it’s been only 8 days ( I noticed it the day before yesterday). Now this one root on the one cactus is it so far but I was expecting a couple months not a couple days.

The cuts I received from this vendor we’re not as clean as the later ones I received from another source.

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Edited by coleman318, 27 October 2018 - 02:20 PM.

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#38 Skywatcher

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Posted 27 October 2018 - 06:06 PM

Glad this seems to be proving successful coleman. The idea scares the bejeebers out of me, but I can usually get a cutting to root in about a month, 7 months out of the year.

 

I'd be curious if you wouldn't get the same results by putting it in a pot with cactus mix. I may experiment next year with two cuttings and do one each way to see if there is any difference. 


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#39 coleman318

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Posted 28 October 2018 - 12:16 AM

Couple reasons for this. I am extremely limited on space in my grow area where I could put it in a pot. I have nowhere to put medium / large containers as my grow room is at capacity. I guess if I am just wanting root development I could put it in a small pot of soil and before it takes “hold” transplant into it’s fullsize container. I just like that it doesn’t take much space. But I’m sure I would of gotten roots in a room temperature dark environment, or room temperature dark environment on a cutting would not coax new root development unless it had some type of light?
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#40 coleman318

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Posted 31 October 2018 - 12:09 PM

Okay another question for the community. My area in the garage can dip to about 50-60 degrees fereinheit at night with the lights off. Roughly one to two hours after turning on the lights in the morning the soil temperature starts to warm up to 65-72 degrees. What should I do to maximize growth and or root production? Keep in mind it is winter in the Pacific Northwest.

Edited by coleman318, 31 October 2018 - 12:10 PM.





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