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Grating cakes for bulk, 3 jars each of 2 different strains, will it work?


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#1 Billcoz

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 09:09 AM

So my last 6 brf jars are colonized, a couple have been 100% for 6 days, and I wanted to do a mini-mono/dub-tub thing. I'm starting tomorrow and I don't know why I never stopped to think about the fact that it's 3 jars each of 2 different cubes, Blue Meanies and B+, and I don't even know if they will mix and fruit together like that. I think they will if I understand cubes correctly, but can't find anything with the search about mixing them to bulk this way. Will it work? Will the two varieties' mycelium co-operate and grow and fruit?

 

I am planning on 50/50 spawn to sub with 50/50 coir/verm, a lil bit of gypsum and a light, thin casing layer & I'll use a black plastic liner. I plan to mix the spawn/sub, is this the best way, or layer? Case or not? Please, anyone with any tips or criticism let me have it. THX.

 

Oh yeah, I'll use 2- 6 quart tubs, 1 covered with foil for 7-10 days to finish incubating, then I'll zip-tie the other on for the top to fruit. I'll pasteurize the sub in a bucket w/ lid. Is this the best way?


Edited by Billcoz, 24 October 2018 - 09:29 AM.


#2 happy4nic8r

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 09:39 AM

I use an ice chest, it holds heat longer. Pour boiling water in to keep temp 140 to 160.strain and squeeze out the water, and sometimes I'll put the verm and sub in the oven to dry heat for a couple before bedding.

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#3 Billcoz

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 09:52 AM

I use an ice chest, it holds heat longer. Pour boiling water in to keep temp 140 to 160.strain and squeeze out the water, and sometimes I'll put the verm and sub in the oven to dry heat for a couple before bedding.

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Do you know if the two cube strains will grow mixed up like that? Or would it be better to do 2 smaller trays in a full-sized monotub? THX.



#4 PJammer24

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 10:08 AM

I have never mixed two different types myself so i can't say from experience what will result... I don't expect it to ruin things for you if that is your concern. What i see happening is that the more voracious of the two will win out and colonize most of the tub.

 

I always mix. From my perspective, having as many different inoculation points as possible allows for faster colonization and less chance of contamination. Each grain will start to colonize independently and colonization quickens exponentially from there...

 

As far as pasteurizing your substrate, a mix of coir and verm is going to present a lower risk for contamination than you would have if using straw and poo... I have had good success pouring boiling water over my substrates of coir and verm... I typically use a cooler so that the temperature stays up for an extended period of time. If you have a cooler available, I would suggest using it.

 

I do not not case my bulk substrates...


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#5 Billcoz

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 10:40 AM

Thanks, I'm starting tomorrow and I'll decide whether to mix 'em in a dub tub or use two smaller trays and keep the strains separate. I'll post some pics when I get it going.



#6 happy4nic8r

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 11:31 AM

I mix strains all the time, by purpose or on accident. You get crosses sometimes, but generally one grows in a spot and the other stays in his. The fight probably breaks out underneath so no televising.

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#7 Billcoz

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 11:59 AM

I mix strains all the time, by purpose or on accident. You get crosses sometimes, but generally one grows in a spot and the other stays in his. The fight probably breaks out underneath so no televising.

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Sweet, would you mix 'em up in the sub together or kinda put one "strain" on one side and one on the other? PJHammer thought they might compete and the stronger one win out. I haven't  done bulk before, would it work as two separate small trays of only 1 1/2 pints of grated ckes as spawn each be okay as long as it's 2 1/2"- 3" deep? I could set them in a regular monotub rather than a double 6 quart dub thing like i was thinking. THX.


Edited by Billcoz, 24 October 2018 - 12:01 PM.


#8 happy4nic8r

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 01:33 PM

They took over the whole thing, just some of each variety in the starting spots.

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#9 Soliver

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 03:25 PM

Conventional growing technique calls for keeping strains separate - you want your strain chewing through nutes, not forming a battle royal for dominance.

 

I've never mixed strains from grated PF jars - I've grated plenty of PF jars for bulk sub, and it's a great method.  If it were my grow, I'd keep 'em separate.

 

Two shoeboxes of different strains is more fun than one biggie and you wondering WTF is growing in there, IMO.

 

:)

 

soliver


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#10 jkdeth

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 03:43 PM

Cubensis strains are not genetically different. Mixing won't really hurt anything. There may be some truth to a more aggressive strain dominating a weaker or slower colonizing strain, but the whole fighting it out and most dominant phenotype taking over the whole grow is a myth. Anything multispore will exhibit multiple phenotypes.
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#11 PJammer24

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 03:52 PM

Cubensis strains are not genetically different. Mixing won't really hurt anything. There may be some truth to a more aggressive strain dominating a weaker or slower colonizing strain, but the whole fighting it out and most dominant phenotype taking over the whole grow is a myth. Anything multispore will exhibit multiple phenotypes.

 

This is what I was referring to... Inevitably, one phenotype will be more aggressive and colonize more of the tray... I don't expect there would be a problem overall.

 

There are multiple pheotypes in each one of those jars to start with if from spore...


Edited by PJammer24, 24 October 2018 - 03:54 PM.


#12 Soliver

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 04:14 PM

I understand your analysis - but is there any benefit to mixing strains in the same bulk substrate?  Beyond curiosity?

 

Separate but equal?

 

What we have here is a failure to communicate?

 

:)

 

soliver



#13 PJammer24

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 04:22 PM

I understand your analysis - but is there any benefit to mixing strains in the same bulk substrate?  Beyond curiosity?

 

Separate but equal?

 

What we have here is a failure to communicate?

 

:)

 

soliver

 

I don't know that there is any benefit but I think the point is that there is little or no significant adverse effects.



#14 jkdeth

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 04:29 PM

No particular benefit. Personally I'd prefer not to, just for properly labeling and tracking prints.
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#15 Billcoz

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 08:29 PM

Cubensis strains are not genetically different. Mixing won't really hurt anything. There may be some truth to a more aggressive strain dominating a weaker or slower colonizing strain, but the whole fighting it out and most dominant phenotype taking over the whole grow is a myth. Anything multispore will exhibit multiple phenotypes.

That's what I figured but if I do it separate, would 1 1/2 pints(3 jars of each type) worth of grated cakes in each tray be enough or is there  a minimum amount of spawn to use in a tray?

 

 

No particular benefit. Personally I'd prefer not to, just for properly labeling and tracking prints.

 

This is what I;m thinking now if there's no probs wit the small amount of spawn/sub that will be in each tray.


Edited by Billcoz, 24 October 2018 - 08:33 PM.

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#16 Soliver

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 08:34 PM

A 1:3 ratio is standard, so for 1.5 pints, you'd use 4.5 pints substrate, which is plenty for a plastic shoebox.

 

So when it's all mixed up (I'm a mixer, not a layer-er, but each to his/her own) you'll have a total of 6 pints of material in your tub or box or whatever you're using.

 

:)

 

soliver


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#17 Billcoz

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Posted 24 October 2018 - 10:52 PM

A 1:3 ratio is standard, so for 1.5 pints, you'd use 4.5 pints substrate, which is plenty for a plastic shoebox.

 

So when it's all mixed up (I'm a mixer, not a layer-er, but each to his/her own) you'll have a total of 6 pints of material in your tub or box or whatever you're using.

 

:)

 

soliver

cool, so 1:3 spawn to sub, but is 50/50 verm/coir for the sub the best ratio? What about gypsum, is that necessary and how much for 6 quarts of sub/spawn? Thanks a lot.



#18 PJammer24

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 07:22 AM

I wouldn't worry about the gypsum... KISS... your sub ratio should work just fine... My ratio is 1:1:1 (coir:verm:poo)... I just eyeball it all... Sometimes there is more poo, sometimes more verm, coir, etc... Being exact isn't all that much of a concern for me...

 

As for using gypsum as a PH buffer, I wouldn't worry about that... Coir's PH is pretty much neutral (upper 6's-7)... High 6's-7 is what you are looking for though a little more acidic may be beneficial... Verm is neutral also... So I don't see any reason to add gypsum, lime, shell, or any other PH buffer to your mix..

 

if you were using peat in a casing layer, you would benefit from the PH buffer due to peat being more acidic... 

 

Just throw all your ingredients, pasteurized substrate, spawn, and love, into a tub... Mix her up and neglect her for a week... Ladies like when you don't call and aren't always checking up on them!


Edited by PJammer24, 25 October 2018 - 07:23 AM.

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#19 Billcoz

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 09:46 AM

Thanks for all the replies, I got my plans now, 1:3 spawn/sub, 50/50 coir/verm, no gypsum.  Actually now that I think about it, Ive read that it's not necessary to dunk so I wasn't gonna, but I also saw a vid on YT where the guy did dunk bfore grating them. Anyone think It'd be better to dunk for 12? 24? THX.


Edited by Billcoz, 25 October 2018 - 09:46 AM.


#20 Billcoz

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Posted 25 October 2018 - 05:13 PM

I just got all my stuff so I'm about to start boiling water for my sub in a min, I don't think I'll get an answer in time but maybe. So the cheese grater I got has a tiny bit of rust in the corner, not a lot at all but I couldn't scrub it off, that shouldn't be a problem right? I sterilized it and will wipe wwith alcohol before grating. So, a lil bit of rust wont hurt right? 






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