Paradox
©
Fisana

Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Grating cakes for bulk, 3 jars each of 2 different strains, will it work?


  • Please log in to reply
87 replies to this topic

#21 essrocks

essrocks

    Mycophiliac

  • VIP
  • 81 posts

Posted 25 October 2018 - 05:51 PM

I originally had my cakes on metal racks in the FC, but they began to rust and stained the tub. I worried about it, but it never gave me any problems so IME, nothing to worry about. It's just oxidized iron, so I don't think it would attract any bad guys especially in sterile conditions. However maybe someone has a more scientific response. 


  • Billcoz likes this

#22 Soliver

Soliver

    Deviant

  • OG VIP
  • 3,114 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 25 October 2018 - 08:30 PM

Thanks for all the replies, I got my plans now, 1:3 spawn/sub, 50/50 coir/verm, no gypsum.  Actually now that I think about it, Ive read that it's not necessary to dunk so I wasn't gonna, but I also saw a vid on YT where the guy did dunk bfore grating them. Anyone think It'd be better to dunk for 12? 24? THX.

 

Don't dunk before grating!

 

Properly hydrate (not too wet at all - better a bit dry than a bit wet) your substrate.  Wet cakes will grate up like warm cheese - no bueno.

 

You want smallish pieces of innoculant - in this case, grated PF cakes.  Depending on your grater, you can use the small-shred side and do well - it's all about innoculant points with the pf cake innoculant - the moisture should be in your substrate.

 

:)

 

soliver


  • coorsmikey and Billcoz like this

#23 Billcoz

Billcoz

    Mycotopiate

  • Free Member
  • 412 posts

Posted 26 October 2018 - 04:54 AM

Well, I just finished like an hour ago, Damn that was stressful! It felt like I was really fuckin up beautiful cakes, lol. I planned on grating 6 cakes and mixing 1:3 spawn/sub with 50/50 coir/verm but I underestimated the amount, so I ended up grating 5 cakes and it was like a 1:2.5 ratio. I filled the shoebox that I prepped with plastic liner, FAE and polyfil holes but the sub/spawn was past the FAE holes with a lot leftover, so, not wanting to throw almost half of it away, I panicked and put foil on it and took the other tub that was meant to be the top of the dubtub and put the holes in it and split the sub/spawn into both.  I'll just buy 2 more shoeboxes before I need 'em for tops/lids. I tried to be gentle mixing it but it was difficult. I feel like I damaged it, possibly beyond recovery, IDK. I feel like they might not work cuz it took me a long time after grating them to mix and then having to make the second tub while the mix sat in the bucket. They both ended up having 3"+ deep sub. I tried like hell to clean up the tubs, sub fell between the plastic liner and tub and was hard to clean, verm grains stick like crazy.

 

What do y'all think? How fragile is the grated cake span?Like, I had to dump it back into the bucket when I realized how full it was and it took like 2 hours after grating 'em to finish and get 'em flat & even and put tinfoil on the tops, is that bad?

 

Also, the sub(bfore adding spawn, was field capacity I hope, when I squeezed a handful hard, a couple(2-3) drips came out then none, but after mixing in spawn, it seemed pretty dry. No drips woulda squeezed out once it was mixed, does that sound right? I misted a tiny bit b3efore wiping sides and covering, correct? Not? Can anyone chime in? Thanks. I'll make another reply next and lay out the steps I did and pics.


  • Soliver likes this

#24 Billcoz

Billcoz

    Mycotopiate

  • Free Member
  • 412 posts

Posted 26 October 2018 - 06:03 AM

IMG_20181025_234056.jpg -6 quart sterilite shoebox, 1/4" FEA holes melted with an old soldering iron every 2 inches, 3.25" up from the bottom, all the way around the tub and 6- 1" poly-fil holes melted with a spark plug socket heated on the stove(2 holes on sides, one on each end). The cores from the 1" holes were intact, like a core from the socket, so they were taped back in place and all the holes were taped to allow sub to colonize for 10 days, will be checked on 11-5 unless told otherwise by an expert. I used a hot nail to make the holes for a hinge for the top tub, which will be zip-tied on(twist-ties used for pic holding lid on).IMG_20181026_012344.jpg IMG_20181026_041247.jpg - Black plastic liner was used instead of painting tub black as a liner will stick/suction to the sub and shrink with it, keeping the depth and moisture, reducing pinning from the sides.IMG_20181026_041228.jpg - Sub comes up to FAE holes, plastic liner will be trimmed more if needed after it's checked on 11-5. IMG_20181026_042708.jpg IMG_20181026_042642.jpg - This is where they'll sit while colonizing, the box sits on a mild heat pad that will only be used if temps get low(68F or below), the pad barely gets warm and to keep in even more heat like an incubator(if needed), the lid can be set on top sideways to let in air or turned to completely cover, but the lid will be off for now.- IMG_20181026_042408.jpg IMG_20181026_042900.jpg IMG_20181026_042624.jpg

 

5- 1/2 pint brf cakes were grated and mixed in a 1:2.5 spawn to sub ratio with a 50/50 coir/verm mix. After grating, there was about 2.5 quarts of cake spawn. After mixing, there was about 6 - 6.5 quarts of sub(coir/verm), and mixed together was 8-9 quarts total sub(if the math is wrong, someone smart please correct it). EDIT-Oh yeah, the tinfoil covers have five tiny holes for GE.

 

 Thumbnail is blue meanies harvested the other day

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMG_20181023_120553.jpg

Edited by Billcoz, 26 October 2018 - 06:05 AM.

  • Soliver likes this

#25 Deleena24

Deleena24

    Pothead

  • Free Member
  • 415 posts

Posted 26 October 2018 - 09:24 AM

Don't worry, if the mycelium is healthy enough after a few flushes you're doing no damage by breaking it up and spawning. The more you mush it up, the more innoculation points, the faster you colonize that tub.

Dunking was def not necessary, but a good rinsing was. Flushed caked have tons of micro activity on the surface just waiting for weakness.

On the bright side, I have pulled off this same experiment as a newb about 10 yrs ago. It worked fine but expect only 1 big flush. Maybe a second small one. I suspect there aren't enough of a whole array of nutrients left to get multiple flushes.
  • PJammer24 and Billcoz like this

#26 jkdeth

jkdeth

    Mycotopiate

  • Gold VIP
  • 1,531 posts

Posted 26 October 2018 - 01:01 PM

Those grated cakes will rip through that substrate fast. It should great growth very soon.

For future reference though, 5 1/2 pint cakes is not even a quart of spawn. Its 20 oz. .625 of a quart. May have looked like more after grating, but that's just because it fluffed up. Added to the amount of sub you mentioned, you're at more like 1:10.

The good thing is lots of tiny inoculation points will help get it colonized fast.

Of course it's probably right, the nutrition may get used up fast, but chances are you'll get the same or better yield.

One more note on the nutrition, volume of cake spawn doesn't compare directly to grain spawn. Grain spawn would be considered 100% nutrients, cakes are only 33%. Effectively cakes are already 1:2. So nutrient wise, you're spawned at 1:27.

From your description of sub hydration, you're on the edge of too wet, sounds like it may have balanced a bit. Myself I've always thought "field capacity" was vague and poorly defined, and most often too wet. The squeeze is a decent way to test, but if get drips, its probably too wet. If a Herculean squeeze gets a little moisture, then also judge by look and overall feel, light and fluffy is what you're looking for.


Edited by coorsmikey, 08 November 2018 - 12:04 AM.
FYI 4 1/2 pints is a quart! 2 whole pints is a quart too, A 1/2 pint (1 cup) is 8 oz. 4 cups to a qt.

  • Billcoz likes this

#27 PJammer24

PJammer24

    Archetype Novice

  • OG VIP
  • 721 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 26 October 2018 - 01:07 PM

jkdeth VS. most interesting man in the world....

 

it's a toss up....


  • Billcoz likes this

#28 jkdeth

jkdeth

    Mycotopiate

  • Gold VIP
  • 1,531 posts

Posted 26 October 2018 - 01:22 PM

I've had too much to think today.
  • Billcoz likes this

#29 Soliver

Soliver

    Deviant

  • OG VIP
  • 3,114 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 26 October 2018 - 03:32 PM

Don't worry about damaging the innoculant - pf gratings are pretty tough. 

 

If your final squeeze didn't get any drips, you're probably ok - you've got pinholes there for some FAE, so all should be well. 

 

The trick is not to peek at it or fuck with it for a several days.  One of the reasons I don't use plastic lining is so I can see growth through the clear plastic, but that's just me ...

 

Based on the depth of your substrate and 5 1/2 pint cakes, I'd say you're good for innoculant ratios - close enough for gov't work anyway.

 

:)

 

soliver


  • Billcoz likes this

#30 Billcoz

Billcoz

    Mycotopiate

  • Free Member
  • 412 posts

Posted 27 October 2018 - 12:41 AM

Those grated cakes will rip through that substrate fast. It should great growth very soon.

For future reference though, 5 1/2 pint cakes is not even a quart of spawn. Its 20 oz. .625 of a quart. May have looked like more after grating, but that's just because it fluffed up. Added to the amount of sub you mentioned, you're at more like 1:10.

The good thing is lots of tiny inoculation points will help get it colonized fast.

Of course it's probably right, the nutrition may get used up fast, but chances are you'll get the same or better yield.

One more note on the nutrition, volume of cake spawn doesn't compare directly to grain spawn. Grain spawn would be considered 100% nutrients, cakes are only 33%. Effectively cakes are already 1:2. So nutrient wise, you're spawned at 1:27.

From your description of sub hydration, you're on the edge of too wet, sounds like it may have balanced a bit. Myself I've always thought "field capacity" was vague and poorly defined, and most often too wet. The squeeze is a decent way to test, but if get drips, its probably too wet. If a Herculean squeeze gets a little moisture, then also judge by look and overall feel, light and fluffy is what you're looking for.

Thanks, that makes me feel better. I did squeeze it really hard and barely got 2 drips before I mixed the cakes in, then it was really fluffy, but I did spray 1 pump of fine mist before I wiped the sides then covered em.

 

Thanks guys, Ill get pics when I check it it. I'm planning to look on 11-5 unless someone says sooner/later is better, Iv'e read 7-10.



#31 jkdeth

jkdeth

    Mycotopiate

  • Gold VIP
  • 1,531 posts

Posted 27 October 2018 - 02:58 AM

Oh its hard not to look, especially early on. After you get a few grows done it gets easier. Be patient and give it seven, if you can.
  • Soliver and Billcoz like this

#32 Billcoz

Billcoz

    Mycotopiate

  • Free Member
  • 412 posts

Posted 27 October 2018 - 03:23 AM

Don't worry, if the mycelium is healthy enough after a few flushes you're doing no damage by breaking it up and spawning. The more you mush it up, the more innoculation points, the faster you colonize that tub.

Dunking was def not necessary, but a good rinsing was. Flushed caked have tons of micro activity on the surface just waiting for weakness.

On the bright side, I have pulled off this same experiment as a newb about 10 yrs ago. It worked fine but expect only 1 big flush. Maybe a second small one. I suspect there aren't enough of a whole array of nutrients left to get multiple flushes.

I didn't soak but I did rinse 'em cuz I figured the bacteria and stuff in the verm layer shouldn't be mixed in.


  • Deleena24 likes this

#33 Billcoz

Billcoz

    Mycotopiate

  • Free Member
  • 412 posts

Posted 02 November 2018 - 02:30 PM

Hey, if anyone is following, I was figuring I'd check these 6qt tubs on 11/5 but this morning I couldn't resist peaking(of course), and though I didn't want to keep it open long enough to take a pic, I saw lots of myc with knots. Now I'm thinking it might be ready to open up to fruit(?) It's only been 7 days but the tubs are pretty damn small, though the sub was 3 1/2 inches deep, so, anyone think it's too soon, or should I go ahead and do it? Thanks, you guys have been very helpful on this for me, it's appreciated.



#34 Deleena24

Deleena24

    Pothead

  • Free Member
  • 415 posts

Posted 02 November 2018 - 03:27 PM

Your spawn ratio was really low and 7 days seems fast, but it's possible its ready.

If its completely colonized and and already knotting...go for it!

Just please make sure its colonized fully. Its is possible to have really colonized portions while the others are slower. It would he a shame to contam the grow because you couldn't wait an extra couple days.

If you're pretty sure it's ready there would be no harm in taking a pic. Fully colonized, it should be fairly contam resistant.
  • Billcoz likes this

#35 Billcoz

Billcoz

    Mycotopiate

  • Free Member
  • 412 posts

Posted 02 November 2018 - 04:31 PM

Your spawn ratio was really low and 7 days seems fast, but it's possible its ready.

If its completely colonized and and already knotting...go for it!

Just please make sure its colonized fully. Its is possible to have really colonized portions while the others are slower. It would he a shame to contam the grow because you couldn't wait an extra couple days.

If you're pretty sure it's ready there would be no harm in taking a pic. Fully colonized, it should be fairly contam resistant.

Thanks, ha I was kinda afraid to peel the foil off, I only lifted a corner so I'm not sure how even it is, but I will look at it better later tonight and judge it then. I did think it is a lil early as well, I've heard 7-10, and it's been 7. I guess if I can't tell I'll take a pic and post to get advice, if it looks even and the knotting is even I'll put the top tubs on and take the tape off the fae holes. I hope the tubs are tall enough, they seem smaller than pics of 6 qt tubs in the teks I'veread(also willy mycos video lol, I like his accent). I might leave the GE hole cutouts(I taped em back in place for colonizing) in place on the bottom tubs, they're really low/close to the fea holes and I put polyfil holes(for GE) in the top tubs as well, I think that'd be enough GE. I'll update tonight, thanks again.



#36 Billcoz

Billcoz

    Mycotopiate

  • Free Member
  • 412 posts

Posted 04 November 2018 - 12:14 PM

Hey, so here's one of the tubs, it's been 8 or 9 days, the mycelium seems like it's not quite there, but I've never fruited bulk before, does it seem too thin? 

IMG_20181104_120030.jpg IMG_20181104_120018.jpg

 

I can't waqit to see what pops up. I did mix the two strains, maybe it was a mistake and one is dominating, but I was in a hurry going back and forth to work and home. I probably shoulda listened to a previous post in this thread(I forget who), they said to put the coir in a cooler to pasteurize, but my cooler was filthy so I used a bucket with a lid. 

 

So, should I leave it a few more days? Thanks. 

 

Oh, There is some water pooled in the middle of each tub, should I try to pour it off through the fae holes? I'll wait to do anything until I get a response saying it's ready. I've seen pics that look more consolidated and some less. I'm assuming a couple days more wont hurt.


Edited by Billcoz, 04 November 2018 - 01:56 PM.


#37 Billcoz

Billcoz

    Mycotopiate

  • Free Member
  • 412 posts

Posted 06 November 2018 - 05:09 PM

So here they are, I put the tubs together and removed the foil(there's loose pieces on in some

 

pics. Now what? Do I start to fan after a while, or not, and if so, right away? Do I mist em? They're

 

pretty wet looking now. On one pic you can see rhizomorphs climbing onto one of the gas

 

exchage hole cut outs that I saved and taped back in place for colonization that fell out. The

 

mycelium seems eager to do something. Here it is-IMG_20181106_161901.jpg You can see the myc climbing in a fanned out rhiz near the corner.

 

I got the wrong tubs without the flat edges so I taped em all around with microporous plastic

 

tape(not the good kind) cuz I got a buch from work & I don't mind wasting it since I can't PC it, it

 

melts(so don't use it).IMG_20181106_161941.jpg IMG_20181106_161834.jpg IMG_20181106_161718.jpg IMG_20181106_161659.jpg

 

Hey, anyone know wht causes these mutant-looking fruits in the pics in the thumbnails? Is it

 

rosecomb? Iv'e read about that, it causes gills to form on top of the cap which grows inside

 

out. It can be caused from a chemical in Lysol spray, which I used to use excessively before I

 

read that. What do ya think? Click the first pic to see a closeup of the hole cutout that fell in and

 

rizomorphic myc climbing it, awesome.

Attached Thumbnails

  • IMG_20181105_072145.jpg
  • IMG_20181105_072121.jpg
  • IMG_20181105_072048.jpg

Edited by Billcoz, 06 November 2018 - 05:12 PM.


#38 Soliver

Soliver

    Deviant

  • OG VIP
  • 3,114 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 07 November 2018 - 04:01 PM

Shit - sorry I missed this thread for a while. 

 

Those subs have lots of moisture on the surface ... or it looks that way in the pics. 

 

Are you spraying them every time you do FAE?  If so, you may want to scale that back - a good sub will generally produce its own micro-environment if properly hydrated from the start - before a sub pins, I'll maybe spray the inside of the lid or the sides if they're dry, but you look like you've got plenty of moisture there.

 

Many say those droplets will keep pins from forming - I'm not certain that's true, as I've never really played around with the idea ....

 

Either way, those all look more than ready for fruiting conditions for certain. 

 

:)

 

soliver


  • Billcoz likes this

#39 Billcoz

Billcoz

    Mycotopiate

  • Free Member
  • 412 posts

Posted 07 November 2018 - 06:28 PM

Shit - sorry I missed this thread for a while. 

 

Those subs have lots of moisture on the surface ... or it looks that way in the pics. 

 

Are you spraying them every time you do FAE?  If so, you may want to scale that back - a good sub will generally produce its own micro-environment if properly hydrated from the start - before a sub pins, I'll maybe spray the inside of the lid or the sides if they're dry, but you look like you've got plenty of moisture there.

 

Many say those droplets will keep pins from forming - I'm not certain that's true, as I've never really played around with the idea ....

 

Either way, those all look more than ready for fruiting conditions for certain. 

 

:)

 

soliver

No I didn't spray them, the pics right after i opened em for the first time. ctipped them on the side to drain as much as I could off and I fanned em a couple times gentlyand left em open for a while. They were already pinning after a couple hours from when I opened em. Thanks.


  • Soliver likes this

#40 Soliver

Soliver

    Deviant

  • OG VIP
  • 3,114 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 07 November 2018 - 10:56 PM

In that case, those subs are set to take off ...

 

Some regular FAE and a pinset already forming? 

 

Sweet running mi amigo!

 

Keep us posted,

 

:)

 

soliver


  • Billcoz likes this




Like Mycotopia? Become a member today!