91 replies to this topic

[Soliver]

 Really? Awesome, cuz ijust picked the last one's from the other tub, now I'm thinking it might have a bunch, I haven't re-hydrated it at all and it's produced more than I thought it would from only 2 1/2 cakes in each tub, maybe it will have as many pins underneath as the other tub, hopefully they're not all rotten.

 

 

 Would you flip it and re-hydrate it at this point? There's a couple tiny pins on top that look like they aborts, I'm gonna pick em off, so would you re- hydrate AND flip it, or one or the other?

 

 

That's what we call a personal decision ... I've done all kinds of silly shit with subs, including breaking them up on purpose after or before dunking with great results, but ... that's a personal decision ( = do what you will, but that's on you)  :)

 

Generally the bottom fruits more because the top isn't getting the proper fruiting conditions.  Some cubes / strains / ?  perform better with a casing layer.  Some perform better with a thin layer, others with a thicker one ... really, if you're using multi-spore syinges, it's a total crapshoot and you sort of have to read the results and do what you think is best, which can lead to massive success and utter failure.

 

I mentally prepare myself by only planning for one flush from any substrate, and anything after that is freakin' gravy.  Low expectations = massive success should your sub produce "normally." 

 

Once I have enough dried shrooms to last a year or so ... which doesn't take much, I generally start giving shit away to random strangers (I'm too paranoid to give shit away to anyone I know ... twisted logic, sure, but I'm still standing) and experimenting with things.  Sometimes the experiments perform wildly well, and other times much, much worse.

 

That's the fun of the hobby - for me - and if you're not growing shitake or some such stuff to pay the bills, and it makes you (me) happy, then ... why the hell not?

 

So there's your long-winded not-helpful, not-answer.

 

:)

 

soliver

[Billcoz]

 Yup, I had a hard time getting the temps/humidity under control most of the first flush, I flipped it and this one only had a few side pins but nothing on the middle of the bottom,

 

 The fae problems are prolly what caused so many bottom pins to form, this one also fruited a lot more than the other from the top.

 

 Thanks Soliver, I was just asking cuz I was curious what you'd do, but I know it's all choice here, I already flipped it, it didn't seem to be dried out at all so I didn't water it. Maybe I'll mist it lightly tomorrow and gently fan for a min.

[Billcoz]

 So here's the tub with the sterilized coir/verm mixed with the 2 grated up B+ cakes, un-contammed and colonized, THUS PROVING SCIENTIFIcALLY that sterilized is better!

 

 NO JUST KIDDING, it doesn't even mean it's as good, the more common knowledge says to only pasteurize so as to leave "good" bacteria which help the fungus somehow and is killed in the PC, which is probably more or less true, I would imagine that sterilizing some shit(poo) would probably make more of a differance than pasteurized vs sterilized coir, there is more nutrition in shit(poo) than coir, but I haven't used poo so IDK.

 

 So before anyone starts telling me how "this experiment isn't scientific", and "not enough controls", NO SHIT! Lol, I really only did this because I had coir that was stored open in a very micro-life rich environment(in my weed grow room) and I didn't trust that it wasn't full of the beneficial microbes that I give to the weed plants.

 

 So don't take this as me saying I think we should all sterilize our subs, and start bitchin, MAYBE take it as an example of it working once, pair that with others who've said they sterilize bulk subs(not as often), compare with how many say they have had contams doing it this way.

 

 From that you could gather that at minimum it makes little difference(with coir at least), but it *might* increase the chance of contams somewhat, though it seems logical that since the bricks of coir are sterile at packaging, they probably don't pick up any beneficial bacteria between packaging and use, so anyways, do it your way, and much thanks to those who helped with advice.

 

 The pics are 10 days after grating/spawning, the FAE holes are covered with tyvec material from a paint suit, I don't mist or fan the sub, I just mist the inside of the top tub one time about one day after I first open em ONLY if condensation doesn't build at all by itself, and I keep a small fan blowing directly away at the opposite wall of the closet(large walk in), the condensation stays for about 3 days, the I will mist the top tub walls again, never directly misting the sub, last time I had some pins abort after accidentally letting water drip onto the sub.

 

 Since I bought the 6 quart Sterilite tubs at Wal-Mart, they are not the best for making dubtubs, Target sells 6 qt Sterilites with THE SAME STICKER but a slightly different design,

the Wal-Mart tubs have textured bottoms that are less transparent and also less flat, and more importantly for this purpose, the lip/rim/edges are not flat so they don't seat as tightly together, so to make it kind of sealed, I wrap wide, elastic, non-adhesive medical wrap around it(see the pics), and I use bread ties to make a hinge.

Edited by Billcoz, 09 December 2018 - 10:27 PM.

[Deleena24]

I dont think it makes any difference with coir. In fact, I know at least a few of the brick coir companies say the processing of the material results in a sterile brick in the plastic packaging...

So unless you're using loose coir with additives, I wouldn't worry either way.

I cheat and use the microwave for small amounts and it always works. Shhhhh. Don't tell anyone.

If you have a Big Lots around they sell really squared off 6qts and they come in a package of 10 for like 8 bucks. I use medical tape to keep my dubs together, too.

Edited by Deleena24, 10 December 2018 - 08:28 PM.

[jkdeth]

Coir has very little nutrient but can benefit from the "cook" you get from long pastuerization times.

Its not going to have beneficial bacteria regardless. You'll only get that from a nutrient rich composted material like manure. Horse manure works best because it has naturally a near perfect C/N ratio, meaning it will compost naturally without additives, giving you beneficially microorganisms that are thermophilic, heat resistant. The bad things it picks up during the process are not. Hence pastuerization to kill the bad stuff.

In the case of highly nutritious substrate sterilization sets out a buffet for whatever is lurking about. That doesn't happen with coir.

[Billcoz]

I dont think it makes any difference with coir. In fact, I know at least a few of the brick coir companies say the processing of the material results in a sterile brick in the plastic packaging...

So unless you're using loose coir with additives, I wouldn't worry either way.

I cheat and use the microwave for small amounts and it always works. Shhhhh. Don't tell anyone.

If you have a Big Lots around they sell really squared off 6qts and they come in a package of 10 for like 8 bucks. I use medical tape to keep my dubs together, too.

 Well full disclosure, I was using loose bagged coir, but I emailed the Canna company to ask if they add anything, and they said it would be sterile, like the bricks, and they never add any beneficial(plant) microbes, bacteria or fungi.

 

 There's a Big Lots a couple towns over from me, I am gonna be spawning some popcorn and I might need some coir, usually they come in 8 qts for like 5 or 6$ at the pet store near me, so damn, thanks for that tip.

 

 For the seam between the dub-tubs, I used the non-adhesive, stretchy wrap, I guess it's keeping the FAE good, that and the tyvec suit, which is not actually tyvec, it's a manufacturer called "Med-Line".

 

 I don't think growers know that, it's the Wal-Mart "Venom" brand, they are a plastic type material, and they are VERY sensitive to heat(they melt), I haven't tried PCing any so I don't know that it won't survive the PC, but it doesn't feel like the tyvec brand suits from Home Depot, if anyone's used these Wally Woorld "Venom" brand paint suits for lid filters, put through the PC, I'd like to know, or I guess I could try one blanc jar, I'm ranting, I'm stoned.

[Billcoz]

Coir has very little nutrient but can benefit from the "cook" you get from long pastuerization times.

Its not going to have beneficial bacteria regardless. You'll only get that from a nutrient rich composted material like manure. Horse manure works best because it has naturally a near perfect C/N ratio, meaning it will compost naturally without additives, giving you beneficially microorganisms that are thermophilic, heat resistant. The bad things it picks up during the process are not. Hence pastuerization to kill the bad stuff.

In the case of highly nutritious substrate sterilization sets out a buffet for whatever is lurking about. That doesn't happen with coir.

 That's what I was hoping for with this, someone to come in with data, it's logical though that the poop would have more micro life.

 

 I'd assume(because I've never usd poo) that it is just better for these types of fungi all around, they grow on shit naturally, and wood etc, prolly even coconut husks on the ground somewhere in the world IDK lol, but nonetheless, shit is preferred, do you agree?

 

 This time the sub seems to have a better moisture content, it's not as wet as when I opened the last batch, the myc is whiter, still not pinning now, but knotting quite a bit, looks a lot more evenly colonized, hope it's a good flush.

Edited by Billcoz, 11 December 2018 - 12:08 AM.

[Billcoz]

 I want to get the biggest B+ fruit from this tub  and clone it, get it on agar, then make an LC(any links to teks from you guys/girls/squirrels, or whatever people are called now, would be awesome thx).

 

 Right now I got some B+ and Burma on agar I'm messin with, I ahve done 2 transfers from the first plates of  B+ from spore water and 1 transfer of burma, from a spore print, I think I'll have a monoculture after one more transfer for the B+, two for the Burms, that'smy goal(mono), any advice is appreciated, though it would be a random genetic strain that I haven't fruited yet, it's more for practice right now to get the technique down for when i have a good fruiting stain to make a mono.

 

 I am using stupid ass little plastic tupperware dishes, and it's a bitch to see the sectors, even holding it at the best angle with bright light, I'm using 1/2 pints for the next batch, then I should have some petris, they should make CLEAR JAR LIDS lol.

 

 I have some glass candle jar lids I might try, they are flat and clear and fit right in the wide mouth jars, they wont be sealed airtight, but IDK if it would be enough air, I've never used actual petris(or dont remember) to see how tight they are, and they're heavy so they'll stay in place, we'll see, I just wanna seethe culture up close and you can't see it that good from the side.

Edited by Billcoz, 11 December 2018 - 12:48 AM.

[Deleena24]

Buy tyvek by the foot. It's cheaper, and way better quality.

https://www.ebay.com...9e62e24ffcad643

And if you're looking for reusable jars for petri replacement, here ya go.

https://www.target.c...itchen_PriorityTCINs&LID=700000001170770pgs&network=g&device=m&location=9021461&gclid=Cj0KCQiAgMPgBRDDARIsAOh3uyK3hgucIkROGhv3q5_HMp0o5HZWNWqg81e-IM2sGceFeOmjVOmOug0aAmHxEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

[Billcoz]

Buy tyvek by the foot. It's cheaper, and way better quality.

https://www.ebay.com...9e62e24ffcad643

And if you're looking for reusable jars for petri replacement, here ya go.

https://www.target.c...itchen_PriorityTCINs&LID=700000001170770pgs&network=g&device=m&location=9021461&gclid=Cj0KCQiAgMPgBRDDARIsAOh3uyK3hgucIkROGhv3q5_HMp0o5HZWNWqg81e-IM2sGceFeOmjVOmOug0aAmHxEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

 Yes I bought some of those jars for agar, but I still have trouble seeing it even thouh they're shorter than other 1/2pts, it would be awesome to have plastic see through jar lids, at least the disk part.

 

 The mini round tupperware dishes suck worse,  the first batch I made half of em tipped in the PC, the agar was slanted(it worked) they are so light but top-heavy, they're only like 60 mm wide at the bottom, I mostly see 100 mm petris being used in OMC pics(I think), 1/2 pt WMs are 105mm, IDK what's actually better..

 

 I'd rather just get some shallow ass petri dishes, I would rather have glass, I wouldn't  mind sterilizing or pouring, and even though I haven't used em, pics/vids make look like it would be so much easier to spot contams or sectors, I have a real hard time with the 1/2pt wides.

 

  As for Tyvec, I have 50 or 100 post office envelopes(disclaimer: I only use em for mailing), and the bottom half of the paint suit but I have yet to try to put pieces of it on jar lids through the PC, seems like it will melt, I also have some rolls of micropore tape and polyfil,  so I feel like I shouldn't buy anything I don't need to, actually, I have pieces of Tyvec housewrap,  I can get it from work & I heard it was better than paint suits or envelopes, it's durable as hell and a bitch to cut, but thanks for the link anyways D24. 

[Deleena24]

Kite tyvek is very durable, and totally different than the envelopes. It feels like felt but plasticy and tougher, but flexible and it survives multiple rounds of PC. People use it for kites too lol. So you can cut, sew and glue it really easily.

When Myrcrotopia was open I believe that's what hippie3 used for pretty much everything filter related. I know outgrow uses tyvek filters for its lids, too.

But you're totally right...polyfil and micropore will pull off the same just fine. I believe you were stoned when you asked about the tyvek suits a few posts up. Lmao. Just trying to help. That stuff is amazing, though.

[Billcoz]

THX!