Will my Martha work?
Posted 13 January 2019 - 07:25 PM
- Samwise likes this
Posted 13 January 2019 - 09:19 PM
Sam - let us know how you succeed with your setup. I have little advice to offer except that I did figure out that just stirring around the internal air on a timer was no good in my case. I did get some fruiting but my yield was embarrassingly low for all my effort and the mass of sub (4 bins and a few cakes) that I put in my Martha. And to add insult, I think I got some mold going on some cakes and so it's probably spread everywhere. I'll probably shut it down, dry it, nuke with bleach then rethink my parameters. Of course, this mold is likely the result of improper environmental set up in the Martha. But is a learning experience.
What puzzles me is this question.
Invitro or 'set it and forget it', dubtub and so forth works from colonization to fruiting with minimal fuss. The invitro or dubtub is sealed and works because it has the ideal humidity with just enough GE (gas exchange). It has micropore or tyvek or PTFE patches to offer this balance perhaps with a larger air chamber of the second tub up top.
The alternative is a 'mist and fan' bin where high humidity is achieved with a sealed lid and GE is achieved from time to time with manual opening of the lid. An FC (SGFC or whatever )is sort of a mini martha with no automation but with vents and moisture source for the carrying of small bins to sort of achieve the same end - good fruiting conditions.
So, looking at all these variations that work, I was thinking
"What's the simplest operation for a GH?"
They are inherently leaky and in no way could have a problem building up CO2 considering the generally large ratio (or huge in my case) of biologic material to chamber space. Thus I concluded that I could forget about any intentional gas exchange or venting to room air. So I figured that if I simply kept the RH at a good level and temp in range then that should suffice. Now I may have been off in some way. I had an internal fan on a timer but no external vent and a humidifier set to 88% by a humidistat. I did have a reptile warmer pad on the ground to both keep up the temp (75) and evaporate the fallout from the humidifier. But my bins did not look good. They seemed to have a dried out surface. Perhaps my RH was not really so high after all. I only got side pins and did get some yield but it was lousy but there were some good fruits. With my humi running 100% of the time it barely kept the humidity at 90%.
So, sadly, I'm thinking I need to go back to something else, perhaps dub tubs or invitro and maybe trouble shoot the GH.
Deelena, with your excellent results with 'set and forget' invitro bags as well as your set and forget dub tubs, what do you see as the need for your GH?
Posted 13 January 2019 - 09:29 PM
My Martha, however provides pretty much constant FAE and can be heated without drying out, so it's for exotics, to answer simply. I don't think I'd get anything approaching what I consider good results with only a couple holes and passive air exchange with anything other than cubies, and I hate fanning and misting. So a Martha it is.
Also, I simply love growing, and doing it in multiple ways makes me happy. You'll see me try many different methods for exotics over the months
- raymycoto likes this
Posted 14 January 2019 - 07:39 PM
just trying a little humor to break up my frustration.
I've been trying so many different things It's not even funny.
Bottom line is that after a week of fruiting one of the 1-quart jar cakes (3 portions of the jar) I stupidly dried them out. Hopefully they can recover. I was thinking to dunk them again but decided to spray them a little yesterday and again today.
So, about the martha. Initially I had placed two fans for air intake located at forth (top) and second level, and 1 bigger for exhaust located at first (bottom) level. Humidifier hose is at the top bringing fresh air from outside. This is the one I got as recommended by user notfadeaway https://www.amazon.c...f=yo_pop_ma_swf. Happy with it.
I only have 30min interval timers, the 15min intervals I got is BS cause it needs some clips for the timings and it only came with 4 clips.
Hopefully you guys can help me figure this out so I'm going to tell you how the martha is currenlty set up as of today.
Only one fan at top level bringing air in. Another fan at bottom level taking air out. Humidifier misting constantly at low. Fans I just decided to run for 30 min every four hours. I figure that since the humidifier is running constantly it's bringing fresh air in, which in turns leaks out via the openings of the two fans....so fae shouldn't be bad. Plus more fae is activated every 4 hours when the fans kick in, they also lower humidity level and condensation. I also have at the bottom level a heater assy that warms up a small tub filled with lava rocks. This helps with temps so it doesn't drop too much when the fans are running. Also since this assy provides some humidity I can run the humidifier at low and not have to be refilling so often.
Questions: It's foggy and misty inside the martha for most of the time until the fans kick in, is this OK? I know about the polyfil mod but I don't have any at the moment. I'm not trusting my hygrometers as they seem to crap out when inside the martha. I'm thinking that a probe based model is the way to go? Those can be placed outside and feed the probe inside the martha so they don't get affected by the unfavorable conditions for electronics inside the very humid martha.
Also temps are about 75f, kind of what I was aiming for.
Edited by TheArchangel, 14 January 2019 - 07:40 PM.
Posted 14 January 2019 - 11:12 PM
I'm gonna throw in some comments for grins but I'm still trying to figure mine out. It is indeed a fine tuning process. Possibly a minor detail but I'd run the exhaust for 15 min rather than 30 min. You will have plenty of GE with that and won't dry things out.
Your temps look good, your humi looks good, and that's my comment about your GE. Having an exhaust fan in addition to the intake might be optional but won't hurt. I have read that computer fans can eventually poop out in high humidity but if you lost one fan then you do have redundancy.
I would get a cheap waterproof tarp somewhere and double or quadruple it and put under your martha in case of a true leak or water permeability of your rig. You don't want to mess up your wood floors. Might even put in a piece of plywood or something as an additional barrier.
Posted 14 January 2019 - 11:41 PM
Yeah, originally I planned to run the fans for 15min and ordered a 15min intervals timer that turned out to be junk. For now I'm trying to get things running with what I got at least until I get more experience. Actually if I had known how easier it is growing out of bags I wouldn't have invested in the martha. I'm not concerned about cakes getting dried with the new settings I put into effect today. Previously I was running two fans for intake and one for exhaust at the same time for 30min on and 1 hour off. Also the humidifier was not running constantly. I was going by the hygrometers that indicated RH was at 95% until fan kicked in....for about a week. There's a tarp on the bottom side that collects the water. I'll have to clean that up everyday prob with the new settings. I may choose to raise it like Deleena24 has his. I've seen those plastic containers at walmart..cheap.
Posted 15 January 2019 - 01:45 PM
If there is water gathering on the wire shelves, its probably too wet. You need to de mist. Get that polyfil. They sell big bags of it in Walmart for like 3$
Posted 16 January 2019 - 02:18 AM
I was getting pooling all around but not the cakes. Today I checked them again and they were starting to look dry, not too much but going that way.
I took out the big exhaust fan. Put in the smaller one that I had taken out and is located at the second level...now taking air out. Dunked the one cake for 12 hours and put back in the martha. I'm thinking to only run the fans once or twice a day. I'm starting with once a day for now and will see how the cakes look after 48 hours.
I'm getting that polyfil then, I didn't know walmart carried it at the stores, thx.
How did you place the polyfil in you martha and how much did you use?
Edited by TheArchangel, 16 January 2019 - 02:19 AM.
Posted 16 January 2019 - 12:56 PM
Dont pack it in tight, you actually want the air to flow freely.
My humidifier come with a sort of cap which you can spin and point the mist in which direction you choose. I put my polyfil in the cap. I'll take a picture after my shower to show you exactly what I mean.
Edit- this thread is where I got the idea. Read it, it explains a lot.
Edited by Deleena24, 16 January 2019 - 12:59 PM.
Posted 16 January 2019 - 01:06 PM
Edited by Deleena24, 16 January 2019 - 01:06 PM.
- coorsmikey and raymycoto like this
Posted 16 January 2019 - 04:44 PM
Yes that polyfill worked wonders to prevent the fallout although it does reduce the humi output and if you are on the borderline of adequate output you may not be able to keep up the humidity. My fault because I did a large enclosure. But you can really fine tune the polyfill. I find that it only takes a small amount to knock out most of the fallout. So keep that in mind. Like 1/4 to 1/2" will precipitate most of the water drops back into the humidifier.
I have mine in a small room. I needed a heater to keep temps up but if I put the heater in the room rather than the tent then that reduces precipitation as well. I put the temp probe to the thermostat within the tent but the heater outside a few feet away and set it at 75.
- Deleena24 likes this
Posted 16 January 2019 - 06:06 PM
It would also provide a little clean FAE since most pumps have a filter. I put a single layer of micropore over the intake of mine when I use them.
Posted 16 January 2019 - 06:22 PM
Ok I put in a bit of polyfill to the end of the hose. I've been keeping an eye on it to see how it's working for the last 3 hours. Went from low to highest settings to see how the temps and RH would react. Also have heater/lava rock unit at the bottom working. I'm not seeing condensation and the hygrometer seems to be working fine now...probably since it's not getting wet as before and reading 99% all the time. As of now I'm not running the fans at any moment. Let's see once things start getting serious if I need to run them once in a while or not. There's a constant FAE going on since the humidifier is running all the time and air from inside gets out via the openings where the two fans are sitting.
Thanks for bearing with me guys.
Posted 16 January 2019 - 09:33 PM
Yes, a good observation and my thoughts, too that having the humi outside the martha brings in fresh air. Sometimes I wonder is that a potential contamination risk because it certainly is not filtered. But as D24 has told me, time will tell you what works. If you aren't getting contam then so be it. I sort of have a theory that an occasional air exchange by timer which drops temps because the dry air causes evaporative cooling - this might be important. (the fan and mist hypothesis) but then that does not explain why a suitable dub tub or FC or invitro can grow nice fruits without this process. Deleena has also mentioned that exotics need more care and that a good growth chamber is needed. I have yet to get to that stage and I'm just now getting to where my Martha is just as good as a small growth chamber and I'm not even sure of that yet.
Posted 17 January 2019 - 02:51 PM
One problem at a time uh? I didn't feel comfortable getting a unit that was going to operate inside the martha thinking it could break down shortly due to the high humidity. Some people don't even wanna use a humidifier at all because of the risks of contam. If my mycobags grow go as well as they have gone for deleena24 I'll stick to doing it that way.
Things are looking better after the polyfill hack, still running no fans.
Edited by TheArchangel, 17 January 2019 - 02:52 PM.
- Deleena24 likes this
Posted 17 January 2019 - 03:27 PM
The substrate can be as simple as plain coir, or advanced as an hpoo substrate. (I have dumped outgrow bags into them and it worked great).
There are so many methods, but if you can dial in a GH it's so damn easy afterwards, and you can fruit so many species at once.
Edit- trays do great, but I cant get a cake to pin in the Martha. It's too hard to hold 99% humidity without waterfalls and pooling lol. But then again, why use cakes if you're at the Martha stage of growing?
Edited by Deleena24, 17 January 2019 - 03:29 PM.