40 replies to this topic

[PistolPete13]

Sounds good;

 

I asked about hydro because you have be careful regarding nutrients, as you have no idea what they put in the nutrients nowadays. They add all types of things they dont put on the label, sometimes to keep it secret sometimes to avoid labeling laws which would require them to put a big red pesticide warning on their product as is the case with salicylic acid in certain states. And not knowing can be potentially disastrous with poppies. I have the recipe for advanced nutrients formula from a couple of years ago and you would be surprised exactly whats in them, they did not use methyl-jasmonate or any jasmonates back then but I am pretty sure one of there new products would contain it now (or a reformulated old one, as its becoming pretty mainstream). Just checked also no acylcyclohexanediones either I did not expect to find them and dont think they would be in them now either. But there were other plant growth regulators in there like triacontanol (Adv Nutes use gibberillic acid GA7, but the most benefit for poppy growers comes from gibberillic acid GA3) which have been shown to increase morphine content (but you just dont know exactly whats in there unless you have their current formula). And trust me I am just scratching the surface! What nutrients were you planning on running with!

 

Stay away from;

Jasmonates Becoming extremely mainstream nowadays, awesome for cannabis and many other plants. Use it on poppies and it modifies the alkaloid profile producing mainly thebaine and hardly any morphine.

AcycyclohexanedionesGrowth retardant, somewhat rare in agriculture. Does the same as Jasmonates.

[PistolPete13]

Edit; Sorry they did use GA3.

[Pensshadow]

That's a lot of information for fertilizer! And I was thinking about that the other day. Especially because these probably will be consumed. In your opinion? What do you think would work best? I sure do appreciate all the helpful information you are giving me. Thank you

[PistolPete13]

I have a background in plant and fungal nutrition, and have worked in agriculture and have had a green thumb most of my life so I have plenty of practical experience. And as you can see I have more than a passing interest. So in some respects I am qualified to give you advice, but in others like actual practical experience in growing the species in question in containers I am lacking a little in this case. I can tell you what to definitely stay away from, and what you want to add and suggest nutrient blends that I believe would fit this bill. But you should definitely talk to some experienced poppy growers that have grown in containers indoors also and see what works best for them and tend to start with the tried and true. It could save you years testing all different blends to find the best, when people have already figured it out. Then you can come along and just tweak it.

 

I will dig a little further, I have access to some impressive fertilizer management resources. I will have a look for poppies, hopefully they have them. If they do it will most probably be from the research conducted in Tasmania (like the link below I found on the net). Hopefully we can just compare their poppy fertilizer management program, to commercially available blends to find the best match.

 

best practice poppy growing guide - Department of Primary Industries

 Best Practice Poppy Growing Guide.pdf   83.64KB   93 downloads

Edited by coorsmikey, 12 November 2018 - 05:40 PM.
please ad content rather than links

[Pensshadow]

Hey PistolPete13, here's a picture of the grow tent that I just put up.

[PistolPete13]

Very nice Pens! I am going to enjoy this

[whirledpeas]

Beautiful!!

[JustinAskin]

Yeah for $55 bucks considering it gets you 95% of what you need with no hassle, its really not that bad! Before you drill or change anything, when it gets to you I would dust off your phone camera(or any camera) and start a grow log. There are so many people on here with good experience (probably with that very kit!) they will guide you through everything. The problem with kits is someone may be in Florida with above average humidity and very warm weather and the kit needs some serious FAE built in to reduce the humidity down, but you may be in NY in winter with 0% humidity and may need a little more humidity so less FAE just making sure to manually fan if needed. You get a hygrometer with your kit so you can easily tailor it to your situation so you sit on around 75% humidity. You could tweak it while you wait for your spores to germinate.

 

"I was going to use it "As-Is" for the first couple grows, get some experience, see it this is a plant I resonate with and go from their!"

 

Yup thats what I would do! Like I said start running it and if the humidity does become a problem and needs to be addressed, then pull out the drill.

 

Have you decided on which type you think you will go with? To me there is difference in the experiance, there are how do I say it? more gentle strains, and then there are the more intense strains. With both types there are recreational doses, which you can still function but get slight visuals and uncontrolled laughter ect great for concerts and the like. Then medium doses, which are a bit more full on. Much more visual, much more spiritual sometimes much more scary! Then high doses you will find even the people that take shrooms a lot only take these like once a year if that!!! These are intense (sometimes life changing)experiences, full blown visuals probably auditory hallucinations. You are not going to a party because you are not going anywhere! If you do have a bad trip on high doses, it can be intense! If you have never done them I personally would start low first, get a feel for it. With LSD or any hallucinogen I always try to keep an eye on the clock when I am taking them, and always know how long the drug lasts and its also good to know when the peak usually ends which is usually well before the drug has worn off completely. And if shit gets bad on high doses always look at the clock (c'mon 3 hours and its over you can do it! it helps me a lot). Except when you look at the clock and just see shapes. A quote that has helped me with psychedelics is this I read on a BBS board years and years ago, a guy was giving advice on how to navigate a LSD trip and said something along the lines of:

 

"Dont try and hold onto the good times,

Dont try and push the bad times away,

Just open up relax and accept it, just roll with it(enjoy the ride)."

 

That attitude reduced the amount of bad trips I had on high doses, and increased the amount spiritual ones I experienced quite a bit. I think purely because I went into them more relaxed more willing to accept my fate! If I was seeing something I did not like, maybe I needed to see it? Which seemed to reduce my anxiety when occasionally it did get a bit uncomfortable or frightening on very high doses. Also uncomfortable and frightening are vast understatements for what you can feel on very high doses if shit goes south (bad trip), tread carefully brother! But if you respect them start low and slowly work up, I can nearly guarantee it will resonate with you!!!

 

PistolPete,

 

Thank yo for the reply.

I receive the grow kit yesterday and had a quick look at it. The spors we shipped yesterday so i may have to wait a couple more weeks before i inoculate the jars and get the process started. 

 

I ended up going with:

 

1) Golden Teacher, 10 ml syringe

2) B+, 10 ml syringe

3) Alacabenzi, 10 ml syringe

 

I will take you advice on a grow log and get that started tonight. I will post picture of the grow kit and all components.

I am thinking I will need a few holes but as you suggest I will set it up and see how it settles in my climate before I do anything crazy.

 

I am not overly worried about the trip... Nervous as  have never done anything like this before, but not overly fearful. But O practice some pretty cool spiritual practices and see some pretty cool stuff. I'm pretty comfortable going in to this and keeping fear in check.

[JustinAskin]

Hey PistolPete13, here's a picture of the grow tent that I just put up.1115181331.jpg1115181331.jpg

 

Is this your first Cannabis grow? 

 

I'm not overly experienced but have been growing for 3 years now and absolutely love it. I don't use and bottled nutrients and find my smoke is a fuck tone better.

 

Good luck, happy growing!!   

[Pensshadow]

Hey JustinAskin, this is a grow tent for poppies. I used to grow marijuana years ago. I've never attempted to grow poppies indoors, so I figured I would give it a try. It's quite different than growing marijuana. You have to be careful what you feed it. Because the plant will actually start producing the wrong chemicals that you don't want,and less morphine. There are people in the forms here that have done this. So I joined the Forum to get advice and to learn. And also look at all the great education in these rooms! Sending good vibes to you on your journey with your mushrooms!

[PistolPete13]

@JustinAskin That is a good attitude to have! I am sure you will be fine. I have just seen some people get a bit gung-ho and overdo it, and it can be more unpleasant than it would have been on a conservative medium dose to start them off. And those people usually never do them again, or dont have a great opinion of them. So when you said you hoped they resonated with you, I kind of felt obliged to warn you not to get carried away and overdo it especially the first time. Also definitely dont be scared I was not trying to do that, if you dont overdo it you will be guaranteed to have a great time!! I would be looking forward to it!! I found GT's on lower doses to be similar smoking strong hash if you have not smoked in years (zero tolerance) maybe a bit stronger with corner of the eye visuals, the odd little hallucination here and there (like the persian rug suddenly taking on a depth and life which makes it look like a living jungle, while i am sitting fascinated with a smile watching the leaves and vines grow) and colors starting to do doing weird things. So thats was my last experience with lower dose GTs and its not something to worry or even be nervous about, I could also tell you some stories about heroic doses in my younger days that were not as fun(but another day). Never tried Alcabenzi, cant wait to see that! Looking forward to the growlog, I noticed you had another post and I can assure you if the guys that were helping you out in that thread stick around you are not going to have any issues!!!

 

You said you don't use bottled nutrients, could you elaborate?

[Pensshadow]

Hey Pistol, here's those pictures.

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[PistolPete13]

Right! For germination through to large rosette stage we were aiming for a concentrated fertilizer with a NPK of 20:10:0.5, and it would have been small diluted doses until established. Your soil is 0.21:0.11:0.16, the ratios are acceptable! I would have liked the potassium content to have been a fair bit lower, but we will just have to make sure not to add any more (maybe might even have to resort to coco nutes, let me see).

 

The generally accepted method goes something like this.....

 

Once at large rosette the nitrogen is bumped right up, the phosphorus and calcium gets a more modest boost and a trace element mix is used.

 

Once large rosette stage finishes and running up stage starts, same as above but the phosphorus is completely cut and extra boron.and magnesium are added.

 

Once late running up stage starts the trace element mix is stopped and phosphorus is started again with extra zinc until the end of hook stage..

 

Once hook stage finishes and flowering starts,  nearly everything is cut except for nitrate nitrogen/magnesium/boron/calcium. Potassium levels at all times are kept low.

 

Well thats how the pros do it, I have to have a look online to see whats available to you locally, and come up with a plan to emulate the regime above easily. You may end up using miracle grow fertilizer too, and it probably would work out well (the high K would hurt you a bit though). Between hydro shops and garden centers I am sure you can get everything easily enough to reproduce the above if you liked(wait and see what I come up with)..........

[PistolPete13]

As the best practice guide linked aboved states;

 

They also have a requirement for micro nutrients with boron being the most important one for poppies.

 

Since boron is pretty important and needs to be tailored it would probably be best to buy some on ebay, $15 for a two pound bag of boric acid that would keep you going years since it is only a trace element. Or just buy a smaller amount?

 

The trace element ratios do change throughout the regime, but you could pretty much achieve nearly identical results by using the same trace element mix but just diluting it 10x at late running up stage. With copper and zinc being the only ones that they would have added more of (you could also add copper and zinc, or just leave it?). Now you could go for a general hydroponics Gro/Micro/Bloom style with grow part being a high nitrogen supplement like 'house and gardens nitrogen boost', micro being the trace elements mix like 'general hydroponics micro' and bloom being a high phosphorus additive like 'NPK RAW phosphorus'.

 

Calcium and magnesium need to be tailored also so a bottle of cal-mag would be highly advisable. Something like 'Love Trees plant nutrients Cal-Si-Mag 3-0-0'

 

Optional extras;

 

Fulvic acid

Humic acid

Fish emulsion

Molasses

Silica

 

Now it may seem complicated at first, but think with weed. You also need a routine about as complicated, and you would use the same if not more products. You need a Grow/Flower/Micro, maybe in the form of A/B grow and A/B flower, bloom enhancers ect. If you grew weed with just miracle gro throughout its grow and bloom phases, you would get weed that does the trick. But not primo, it would be weaker Mexican style weed.

 

This routine is not hard.

• A trace element mix is used as well as a high nitrogen and medium phosphorus and calcium mix.
• Next stage mix is the same as above but we cut phosphorus and add extra boric acid and cal-mag.
• Next we use the same trace element mix but just dilute it down 10x for this whole stage, and add phosphorus to the mix again
• Last stage everything is cut except nitrogen, cal-mag and boric acid

 

So to have the type of control that hydro growers or commercial farmers have you would really need something like this;

 

Boric acid

Nitrogen supplement

Phosphorus supplent

Trace element mix

Cal-Mag

 

Also you could just find an all-round fertilizer and just run with that, its up to you. How much time and money do you want to spend, is the question?

[PistolPete13]

If you do go for the all purpose fertilizer, try and find one very low in Potassium (K), for example NPK, 20-10-01 is the type of ratio you want in that soil the last number as low as you can find. And in that case you would still benefit greatly from adding extra nitrogen and boron.

[Pensshadow]

Hey there! I've been busy the last couple days. I had to go do a couple beds on some jobs. Since Christmas and Thanksgiving is coming up it's a real pain in the ass! LOL! I did get a quick look over it what you written me. I think I will go with an all-purpose fertilizer like you said and I'll also get some Boron on the side. As well as some nitrogen may be. I'm going to have a better look at what you wrote at tonight when I have time. I can tell you though that they did germinate! They are all about one centimeter High! Now all the excitement comes! They all look very good. Once they can start getting more growth into them I will pull the weaker ones. I did plant in all my finishing pots, I did not want to go through the headache and heartache transferring seedlings. I know they're very delicate if you try to move them it can be disaster. I know our times are way off its 11 here in the morning so I think it is like 4 a.m. for you. I'll have to check to see when you're most likely to be on so that we can keep our messages little bit closer together. So hopefully I'll see you on here later tonight, I have some things I have to go do. So have a good one I'll talk to you soon.

[JustinAskin]

@JustinAskin That is a good attitude to have! I am sure you will be fine. I have just seen some people get a bit gung-ho and overdo it, and it can be more unpleasant than it would have been on a conservative medium dose to start them off. And those people usually never do them again, or dont have a great opinion of them. So when you said you hoped they resonated with you, I kind of felt obliged to warn you not to get carried away and overdo it especially the first time. Also definitely dont be scared I was not trying to do that, if you dont overdo it you will be guaranteed to have a great time!! I would be looking forward to it!! I found GT's on lower doses to be similar smoking strong hash if you have not smoked in years (zero tolerance) maybe a bit stronger with corner of the eye visuals, the odd little hallucination here and there (like the persian rug suddenly taking on a depth and life which makes it look like a living jungle, while i am sitting fascinated with a smile watching the leaves and vines grow) and colors starting to do doing weird things. So thats was my last experience with lower dose GTs and its not something to worry or even be nervous about, I could also tell you some stories about heroic doses in my younger days that were not as fun(but another day). Never tried Alcabenzi, cant wait to see that! Looking forward to the growlog, I noticed you had another post and I can assure you if the guys that were helping you out in that thread stick around you are not going to have any issues!!!

 

You said you don't use bottled nutrients, could you elaborate?

 

Pete13,

 

I am excited to give all three a try and see the whole cycle.

I am nervous about taking mushrooms, especially for the first time but I believe I will be "OK" and i will need to see what ever the mushrooms need to show me.

 

What would be a good dose to start at for GT's...

Would you say someone who has never taken them before and is a little more cautious do you think 1 gram would be overkill for the first one?

 

Correct I like to grow my weed as DIY as I can LOL...

 

I dont like bottled nutrients much like I do not like pharmaceuticals. Just a personal choice and I find the smoke allot smoother.

 

I make my own soil during the summer and I grow in the winter months (Approx 6 - 8 month grow season). This year I am looking to finish a total of 23 plants.

I use egg shells boiled in water for calcium, molasses mixed in water for sugar and Epsom Salt diluted in water for magnesium calcium and other trace elements.

 

Plus other stuff, but the big part is the compost while making my own soil.

[PistolPete13]

If anyone was interested in this thread and was wondering what the hell I am talking about, about half of this discussion about poppy nutrition has gone on in private. This is the feed chart I was talking about, it is from a brochure I attached to this post;

@Justin I would personally be taking between 1g and 2g, depends how you are feeling on the day? It is a fun process I can not wait to get growing again, I should be starting not long after you! Regarding nutrients sounds like you have a nice system! I have been getting into compost also, I have just started a worm farm (for castings and leachate). I have been getting into aerated compost teas and especially aerated worm teas. I remember Soma saying at the CC years ago, that bat gauno for your Phos during flower brings out the smell of weed like nothing else(dont know if its true, but thats what he said).

 

@Pens that sounds excellent, did you plant a selection or just one type? Anyway I am sure we will catch up soon, when schedules clear out a but

Attached Files

•  SLTEC-PoppyNutritionalGuide.pdf   1.58MB   25 downloads

[coorsmikey]

If Pensshadow would kindly suggest a new Title I would like to move this thread over to Botanicals. It has some good information and reading to be lost in Welcome Mat.

Edited by coorsmikey, 20 November 2018 - 02:32 PM.

[Pensshadow]

I agree coorsmikey. Poppy nutrients would fit the bill. Thanks!