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Use Coarse Vermiculite!


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#1 spakk

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Posted 14 November 2018 - 09:30 PM

Story continues.

 

The slow progress of both the mycelium growth stage and fruiting I attribute to using verm that is too fine - not enough air space.  The single first flush veil-less specimen was starting to shrink, so I harvested it yesterday and fan-dried for 24-hrs. It weights out at 540mg.

 

Now I'm seeing what may be aborts and very slow progress - started fruiting back on Oct-29. Also, it looks like something green in color on a couple of the cakes, but could be my imagination. Will keep a close eye.

 

GT 3
GT 4
GT 2

 



#2 coorsmikey

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Posted 15 November 2018 - 03:03 AM

So.....You think if you would have used coarse vermiculite instead, you would have had more mushrooms faster than now?

 

Hopefully a helpful hint: When Ps. cubensis mycelium starts to dry out it will often get a blue-green hue to it. Mostly blue but when its subtle some people can perceive it as a greenish hue. Its usually an indication of stress or dehydration. Sometimes mycelium with a high alkaloid content will turn blue if you look at it funny.


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#3 PJammer24

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Posted 15 November 2018 - 09:41 AM

Sometimes mycelium with a high alkaloid content will turn blue if you look at it funny.

 

 

Mikey, it only does that when it's scared... Maybe you should hide that face only a mother could love when you're around myc....



#4 spakk

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Posted 15 November 2018 - 10:46 AM

So.....You think if you would have used coarse vermiculite instead, you would have had more mushrooms faster than now?

 

Hopefully a helpful hint: When Ps. cubensis mycelium starts to dry out it will often get a blue-green hue to it. Mostly blue but when its subtle some people can perceive it as a greenish hue. Its usually an indication of stress or dehydration. Sometimes mycelium with a high alkaloid content will turn blue if you look at it funny.

Why yes, now that you mention it, I do think that.  :tinfoil:   I seem to be on the outer edge, or further, of many of the time benchmarks I've read here.The only thing I can peg that hasn't conformed to (what seems to be) generally accepted practice is my use of fine vermiculite. I've been faithfully misting and fanning twice a day since the pins appeared, and two of the five cakes haven't even pinned appreciably. Those that have (as in the top two pictures above), seem to be aborts, or are doing strange things like the half-attached cap in the background on the top picture - been like that for days. Steady temps around 65 degrees.

 

Good thing I have some rye spawn jars going. Those were pressure-cooked and on track in terms of the mycelium growth.



#5 PJammer24

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Posted 15 November 2018 - 11:29 AM

Using finer vermiculite as opposed to course vermiculite isn't going to significantly impact growth... A common cause of aborts is not meeting the growth parameters and needs of the mushroom, Ie. Insufficient moisture (maybe didn't dunk well enough), insufficient nutrients (this is probably not the case), insufficient FAE (you seem to think you have this down)... You are a little low in terms of temperature... Room temperature will work fine. 70-75 degrees. The lower your temperature gets the slower the mycelium will grow...

 

Wild cubensis thrive in southern states and countries where temperatures are pretty warm... 65 degrees is colder than I ever fruit...


Edited by PJammer24, 15 November 2018 - 11:29 AM.


#6 Deleena24

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Posted 15 November 2018 - 12:00 PM

I really dont think it makes a difference in cakes. In fact, I dont case my cakes at all. It's all about genetics my friend. And providing the right grow parameters.

The before I had to turn the heat on bc of winter temps, my growroom was at a constant 66 degrees. Cubes grow fine. Might add a few days to the process, but it's worth it. When grown at those cooler temps me thinks they are a good deal more potent. I'd say a 25% increase, easy.

Keep at it, I didnt see if yours is MS but if it is you really have to have great spores , fruiting chamber, luck, and most importantly, patience.

This pic is of Chitwan. Prob my favorite strain to grow on cakes. Such beautiful fruits. Super visual and clear headed for cubes.

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#7 PJammer24

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Posted 15 November 2018 - 12:17 PM

I really dont think it makes a difference in cakes. In fact, I dont case my cakes at all. It's all about genetics my friend. And providing the right grow parameters.

The before I had to turn the heat on bc of winter temps, my growroom was at a constant 66 degrees. Cubes grow fine. Might add a few days to the process, but it's worth it. When grown at those cooler temps me thinks they are a good deal more potent. I'd say a 25% increase, easy.

Keep at it, I didnt see if yours is MS but if it is you really have to have great spores , fruiting chamber, luck, and most importantly, patience.

This pic is of Chitwan. Prob my favorite strain to grow on cakes. Such beautiful fruits. Super visual and clear headed for cubes.

 

 

That is all true Deleena but they said in their post that they are experiencing slower than expected growth.... Temperature directly impacts the metabolic process... Lower temperatures = slower growth...



#8 spakk

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Posted 15 November 2018 - 01:06 PM

Using finer vermiculite as opposed to course vermiculite isn't going to significantly impact growth... A common cause of aborts is not meeting the growth parameters and needs of the mushroom, Ie. Insufficient moisture (maybe didn't dunk well enough), insufficient nutrients (this is probably not the case), insufficient FAE (you seem to think you have this down)... You are a little low in terms of temperature... Room temperature will work fine. 70-75 degrees. The lower your temperature gets the slower the mycelium will grow...

 

Wild cubensis thrive in southern states and countries where temperatures are pretty warm... 65 degrees is colder than I ever fruit...

Thanks for the reply. They're growing in a basement in a climate where the outdoor overnight temperature right now is in the teens or twenties. Next time will set up the grow area in an upstairs closet space - my clothes arn't nearly as fussy. I did dunk the cakes for 24 hours and after misting, use a small electric fan above the container for about three minutes - notably to dry any visible moisture on the pins if it's there.



#9 spakk

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Posted 15 November 2018 - 01:09 PM

I really dont think it makes a difference in cakes. In fact, I dont case my cakes at all. It's all about genetics my friend. And providing the right grow parameters.

The before I had to turn the heat on bc of winter temps, my growroom was at a constant 66 degrees. Cubes grow fine. Might add a few days to the process, but it's worth it. When grown at those cooler temps me thinks they are a good deal more potent. I'd say a 25% increase, easy.

Keep at it, I didnt see if yours is MS but if it is you really have to have great spores , fruiting chamber, luck, and most importantly, patience.

This pic is of Chitwan. Prob my favorite strain to grow on cakes. Such beautiful fruits. Super visual and clear headed for cubes.

Nice picture, is that sitting outside of the chamber?  MS? Mono-spore?


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#10 spakk

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Posted 15 November 2018 - 06:10 PM

I saw an interest bit from a Roger Rabbit vid that's about two minutes long.  It explains his process for Shittake: birthing, soaking for 24 hours, then placing back into the glass jar for fruiting. After about three/four days, filling the jar with water for a few hours.  He claims the in vitro specimens pop out the top looking for air.  What effect do you suppose that would have on p. cube GTs?  I have three slow starter jars that haven't been birthed yet (started Sept 16) that may be candidates.



#11 jkdeth

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Posted 15 November 2018 - 06:30 PM

You can fruit from the jars, how directional they are varies. When pins start, rinse off the verm dunk them right in the jar overnight, drain and give a very thin layer of verm, fruit the same as usual, but still in the jar.
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#12 Deleena24

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Posted 17 November 2018 - 06:32 PM


I really dont think it makes a difference in cakes. In fact, I dont case my cakes at all. It's all about genetics my friend. And providing the right grow parameters.

The before I had to turn the heat on bc of winter temps, my growroom was at a constant 66 degrees. Cubes grow fine. Might add a few days to the process, but it's worth it. When grown at those cooler temps me thinks they are a good deal more potent. I'd say a 25% increase, easy.

Keep at it, I didnt see if yours is MS but if it is you really have to have great spores , fruiting chamber, luck, and most importantly, patience.

This pic is of Chitwan. Prob my favorite strain to grow on cakes. Such beautiful fruits. Super visual and clear headed for cubes.

Nice picture, is that sitting outside of the chamber? MS? Mono-spore?

Yeah its outside the chamber. Multispore believe it or not. I like growing at cold temps it seems to make up for slow time by being more potent.

#13 spakk

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Posted 18 November 2018 - 01:44 PM

Something completely different - the rye spawn at 20 days:

Rye spawn At 3 Wks


#14 Deleena24

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 01:07 PM

Did you shake that jar recently? Or milk it recently?

I ask because it looks like its recovering. It's not as thick as usual cube mycelium, yet all of the grains are covered.
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#15 Soliver

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 05:06 PM

66 degrees is pretty darn cool for cubies.

 

Lots of folks have found that double end casing cakes (DEC if you're doing a search) creates a superior growing environment for those not able to dial-in genetics with cloning or agar.  Multi Spore can produce great results - sure, it's a crapshoot to some extent, but if the right conditions are provided, even MS cakes can spit some weight.

 

"25% more potent fruits" is a substantial claim.  Lest our newer growers start thinking they need to cool their heels for higher yield, do you have anything to support that claim beyond subjective analysis?

 

:)

 

soliver



#16 Soliver

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 05:10 PM

I saw an interest bit from a Roger Rabbit vid that's about two minutes long.  It explains his process for Shittake: birthing, soaking for 24 hours, then placing back into the glass jar for fruiting. After about three/four days, filling the jar with water for a few hours.  He claims the in vitro specimens pop out the top looking for air.  What effect do you suppose that would have on p. cube GTs?  I have three slow starter jars that haven't been birthed yet (started Sept 16) that may be candidates.

 

I've had little success in repeating RR's methods in the past - besides that, what works for one mushroom isn't always a good bet for cubes.  I'd stick to verified cubensis teks. 

 

:)

 

soliver


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#17 PJammer24

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 05:47 PM

66 degrees is pretty darn cool for cubies.

 

Lots of folks have found that double end casing cakes (DEC if you're doing a search) creates a superior growing environment for those not able to dial-in genetics with cloning or agar.  Multi Spore can produce great results - sure, it's a crapshoot to some extent, but if the right conditions are provided, even MS cakes can spit some weight.

 

"25% more potent fruits" is a substantial claim.  Lest our newer growers start thinking they need to cool their heels for higher yield, do you have anything to support that claim beyond subjective analysis?

 

:)

 

soliver

 

 

Slower growth could potentially lead to denser fruits and increase potency over a tall stretched fruit that is not as meaty... 25% is probably a pretty serious estimate of any potential gains....



#18 Soliver

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 09:04 PM

Perhaps, but denser fruits vs. hollow stringy fruits = nada when it comes to potency.  A short stubby weighs the same as a tall hollow . . . grams = grams.

 

10 pounds of crushed beer cans weighs the same as 10 pounds of uncrushed beer cans . . .

 

The proposal is that somehow lower temps, and therefore slower growth = more potency. 

 

That can't be measured by density (beer cans) . . .  unless we're talking yield (as measured by weight), which is a different idea altogether. 

 

:)

 

soliver


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#19 Deleena24

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 09:51 PM

I didnt mean 25% gain in fruits...I meant potency. As for gain in fruits maybe a bit since they're usually dense when grown cold.

66 was actually alot faster than youd expect. I run a heater in my grow room now. Always at 72.

The mycelium always generate heat, so the box I kept them in when it was 66 was prob closer to 70 or 72 in the middle.

And no, no science. Just a general consensus and what I experience. I grow notoriously slow strains,too. I'll admit 25% may be a bit of an exaggeration, but not for strains like PE, PEUncut...which are some of the slowest fruitier and almost everyone agrees they're more potent.

The message I really wanted to send was that you shouldn't worry if you have low temps. You'll get fruits, and they'll probably be potent.

Edited by Deleena24, 19 November 2018 - 09:57 PM.

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#20 Soliver

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Posted 19 November 2018 - 10:17 PM

Temperature vs. growth rate is always a healthy debate.  I've heard and repeated - that if you're cozy in the room, so will be your cubes.

 

PE is generally recommended as a potent strain - I've no experience with that one, but it's a commonly repeated subjective experience.  I'd say that PR is a more potent strain than, say, GT.

 

Again, subjective experience, somewhat backed by repeated subjective experience that most peeps can agree upon to some measure.

 

That said, if you grow your PEs at 68 degrees - to suggest they're 25% more potent -

 

I'm not doubting that you grow some potent stuff ... hell, I've been in love with a variety of strains.  Serious Man=Fungus Love I'm talking here.

 

But the potency wasn't me.  It was the mushroom.  Or maybe the substrate.  Or maybe the meteor shower, or the conditioner I used to eradicate the smell of decaying flesh from my body, right?

 

To suggest that I'd dropped the temperature in the room eight degrees, thereby making them 25% more potent would . . .

 

belittle the organism that really did the work.  Sure, I provided the habitat and the proper nutrients, but if I could alter the organism that much with an eight degree temperature shift?

 

I'm gonna go open all the windows in the house.  If I don't wake up 25% more potent, my GF will have words.

 

:)

 

soliver






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