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Tampanensis fruit better in poo.


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#1 Deleena24

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Posted 23 November 2018 - 07:25 PM

As the title states, they do.

First pic is of straight cased grain. Second pic is of the same grain type and same LC was used but spawned to 50/50 poo/straw.

The poo tray has more fruits in one pin cluster than the whole grain only tray put out in total.

I'm trying the same experiment with ATL#7 and Jalisco, to see if these results are consistent.

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#2 wharfrat

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Posted 23 November 2018 - 10:24 PM

As the title states, they do.

First pic is of straight cased grain. Second pic is of the same grain type and same LC was used but spawned to 50/50 poo/straw.

The poo tray has more fruits in one pin cluster than the whole grain only tray put out in total.

I'm trying the same experiment with ATL#7 and Jalisco, to see if these results are consistent.

very nice



#3 jkdeth

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Posted 23 November 2018 - 10:29 PM

Probably more due to genetics than manure.
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#4 WalkingCatfish

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Posted 23 November 2018 - 10:44 PM

Interesting!



#5 Deleena24

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Posted 24 November 2018 - 12:18 PM

Interesting indeed, which is why I'm reapeating the experiment with all 3 species. I'll try to do a few of each kind, too.

Can someone please tell me when the optimum time to print is? I keep looking but cant find a specific answer. They dont have veils and it's very hard to tell for me since I've never taken any kind of print.

Topia has given me much over the years and I want to be able to give back with some decently clean prints. I figure since the caps are so small I'd include 2 per person, unless you guys feel 1 is enough and more people will recieve em.
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#6 Tillidis

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Posted 24 November 2018 - 12:41 PM

Great looking pinset! 

 

 I'm new here but not new to growing: in my opinion one print gets the job done, but-  Sending multiple prints is nice for the recipient, gives them something to trade with and something to work with.


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#7 Billcoz

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Posted 24 November 2018 - 07:47 PM

Probably more due to genetics than manure.

From what I've read I agree but I have heard some claim that manure can produce more potent fruits, is that true? 



#8 Deleena24

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 01:20 PM

Any claims like that are anecdotal...and yes agreed genetics are prob most of it, but the difference is so big that I need to see if the results are repeatable.

After my MS grow are done how I described, I will try using a clone. If the results are the same, we know it's not genetics.

It does make sense to me, though, that a poo loving mushroom would grow better with actual poo.

The idea holds with Pans, why not other species?
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#9 Billcoz

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 08:08 PM

Any claims like that are anecdotal...and yes agreed genetics are prob most of it, but the difference is so big that I need to see if the results are repeatable.

After my MS grow are done how I described, I will try using a clone. If the results are the same, we know it's not genetics.

It does make sense to me, though, that a poo loving mushroom would grow better with actual poo.

The idea holds with Pans, why not other species?

You could clone it, then grow out on agar, then make a grain master, in the mean time make LI and shoot up some pf jars, then grow out bulk with poo and without, see if there's a diff in potency with brf vs. coir vs. poo, all from 1 fruit.


Edited by Billcoz, 25 November 2018 - 08:10 PM.


#10 Deleena24

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Posted 25 November 2018 - 08:50 PM

If you mean LC I'm already ahead of you. Same one has been used for all my tampanensis.

I've got it on Brf, Corn, Millet, Rye, WBS, and even straight Safflower seeds. I've got spawn galore for Tamp and ATL of all types, but only a couple lbs of Jalisco tho. I spawned the Jalisco I had on rye, I have 1 brf jar and 1 3lb bag of millet to play with it of it, too.

I do have 12 3lb bags of milo in the fridge, and maybe 15 1lb bags of rye left. The rye will be used to test new Lcs.

I have a bunch of new bags of all sizes, and a sealer, so I have spawn to last forever.

#11 Billcoz

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 12:11 AM

 I meant liquid inoculant, like a "slurry" or myc water. Like take colonized agar and aspirate h2o into it to break it up, or a blender, then use that to hit brf jar to further the thread-topic experiment to poo vs. coir vs. BRF cakes, I misread what the topic was actually, I thought someone mentioned better POTENCY from manure, and I commented that(while not agreeing) I have heard people claim that.

 

 I was saying that you could do the clone to g2g and fruit those in a tray of coir & one of shit, and in the mean time make brf jars with liquid inoculant(myc/h2o "slurry") and when they're done do a three way comparison, but I see that you were just talking about how well they fruited.


Edited by Billcoz, 26 November 2018 - 12:13 AM.


#12 Deleena24

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 12:44 AM

Your idea is good, too. Only prob is that the poo I use already has some coir in it. I ordered like 15 separate 1lb bags from Outgrow and he threw in like 4 extra, both the poo mix and 50/50mix included.

I really like using bags for bulk. I can fruit em in the bag with cubes or cut off the top and throw it in the martha.

I have several dozen bags and supplies to make my own bulk, I just dont have enough time until after the holidays. Turns out someone ordered me another 15lbs as a gift too lol. So I'm good for now on poo.

Edited by Deleena24, 26 November 2018 - 12:45 AM.

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#13 jkdeth

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 02:04 AM

Everybody used to believe more potency from poo, over the years its kind of fallen by the wayside. If there is a difference in potency, its hard to prove, but if it was major, it would. Be the standard. Really isn't anymore.

A lot of what we do at least began with commercial practices. Composted manure was a cheap and easy way to build a nutritious substrate.

The difference is the spawn rates we use are massively higher than a commercial grow. Nutrients have to be added to get decent yield. When we spawn at ratios around 1:3 its all the nutrients needed. A quart of spawn is a lot more nutritious than a quart of poo.

There is a another side to, the microbes that should be available in poo can be beneficial, and sometimes necessary. That could be the case here, but again hard to prove. Does have some basis in fact though. There's a method some edible growers use on species that are hard to fruit indoors, in which they harvest microbes from around the base of outdoor grown mushrooms and use it to inoculate indoor grows with success.
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#14 Billcoz

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 04:27 AM

Your idea is good, too. Only prob is that the poo I use already has some coir in it. I ordered like 15 separate 1lb bags from Outgrow and he threw in like 4 extra, both the poo mix and 50/50mix included.

I really like using bags for bulk. I can fruit em in the bag with cubes or cut off the top and throw it in the martha.

I have several dozen bags and supplies to make my own bulk, I just dont have enough time until after the holidays. Turns out someone ordered me another 15lbs as a gift too lol. So I'm good for now on poo.

 So do you think they grow better in that than straight poo(p)? Wish I had friends/fam that would gift me some shit lol!

 

 It's awesome you use a martha, I'd like to take cheap plastic shelves and make something like that with thick plastic wrap and add a tiny fan facing out near the bottom and vents on top, maybe hepa filtered, with some way to keep RH up, IDK if that's a good design, I'm researching slowly.

 

 

 

 

Hey JK, Iv'e been reading about sterilizing coir possibly being not as good, some guy on shroomery(yeah) said pcing coir kills off something in it that they need and somehow leads to contamination(?). So would you recommend pcing coir/verm in water, or does it kill off something good in the coir or contam? 

 

 I'm making up another little mini tub and since it's tiny, and I have loose bagged coir that I don't really trust to not have some weird 'tam(I keep it in my weed grow room with beneficial microbes contamming everything) and I was thinking of mixing it with verm/h2o at field capacity and jar it up, then PC for 60 min, cool it and mix with 2-3 grated cakes, I'm trying to grate em sterile in a sab & keep a bitof it to make a myc/h2o syringe.

 

 I had to toss one of the other mini shoebox dub-tub things, after I soaked it it cracked, I patched it with verm, and it started growing white stuff that started to turn green, I caught it just as it started to turn but it was for sure, it started as little grains getting green, then grew, I sprayed bleach & removed it immediately.

 

 I'll post pics of this new one in my thread "Grating Cakes for..."

 

 Thanks JKD.



#15 PsyBearknot

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 05:58 AM

i think its more about sterilizing your substrate vs pasteurizing and not so much the PC'ing part killing.  The PC can be used to pasteurize and sterilize   

 

sterilizing kills everything in the substrate vs pasteurizing leaves beneficial things that help fight off a lot of contaminants  


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#16 Billcoz

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 06:14 AM

i think its more about sterilizing your substrate vs pasteurizing and not so much the PC'ing part killing.  The PC can be used to pasteurize and sterilize   

 

sterilizing kills everything in the substrate vs pasteurizing leaves beneficial things that help fight off a lot of contaminants  

 Really? So would you recommend NOT pcing in jars for an hour? Like I said, I don't really trust the coir, it's loose bagged and It's been around beneficial soil microbes from gardening.

 

 I mean, I get that most people pasteurize in jars with a thermometer, I just want to be confident in it so I thought about pcing at 15psi, so is it true that coir has "good" life in it that temps over 160-170f will kill, causing sub to be prone to contams?

 

 .


Edited by Billcoz, 26 November 2018 - 07:54 AM.


#17 Deleena24

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 03:53 PM

When I use coir or verm, I just nuke it for 5 to 7 min depending on depth and amount in container, with a small hole in lid. Let it cool slowly. Do this for my casings, too.

I've never had a contam from it. I know it's not the norm, but I use the KISS method. Keep It Simple, Stupid.

Btw the bags I buy are sterilized, and they work great. I do, however, colonize right in the bag, eliminating exposure to air, therefore bypassing that contamination problem from lack of beneficial microbes.

When I do pour them out into smaller trays, I use my glovebox. If I ever did open air, I'm sure I'd get more contam from sterilization.

As for whether 50/50 works better than the straight poo bags, I haven't seen a noticable difference in cubes.

As for Mexicanas, I'll be able to tell soon. Tracking says my poo will be here today.

#18 Soliver

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 04:08 PM

Online tracking is the bomb - allows you to track your shit's movements across these great United States . . . I'm always looking for my shit, like "Where the hell's that shit I ordered online?  Dammit!"

 

I've always heard that the best time to print is right before the veil breaks - I poke the cap with a sterile metal toothpick, use another to wipe away the veil, the trim the stem with sterile scissors and place the cap on the printing media.

 

Supposed to be less prone to random contams if it's done that way; I've done it after the veil breaks and gotten usable prints, but it makes logical sense, I suppose.

 

:)

 

soliver


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#19 Deleena24

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 04:15 PM

Soliver lmao.

These dont have veils! Neither did my Atls.. And after the caps flatten, they turn wavy just like P. Cyans. So timing is prob really important.

I'll figure it out.
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#20 Billcoz

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Posted 26 November 2018 - 06:02 PM

 Well, I'm not really buying the whole "sterilizing coir kills beneficials" thing, I have spoken to both "Canna" and "Zoo-Med" brands thru email and asked them if there are any added microbes, and not only do they not add anything, BOTH TOLD ME THAT THEIR COIR IS "PACKAGED STERILE", and "STILL BE STERILE at the time the package is opened by the customer".

 

 So, if I open a STERILE brick of coir, pour boiling water on it in a bucket, seal it with the lid, then let it steam, where does it have time to pick up these "beneficials" that are so important to keep it from contamming?

 

 It's packed "totally sterile", according to the company of the main brand I've seen used for mycology. "Zoo-Med", and the brand of coir I have loose bagged, "Canna".

 

 I expected they would tell me they can't guarantee anything, as I explained exactly what I was ganna use it for, and they assured that it was totally sterile when packaged, IDK how it could not be, a coir brick is cooked and compressed with heat, again, when does coir pick up the stuff we DON'T want to kill off? 

 

 I know it's common to say that sterilizing coir kills "good" stuff, I even think he said that in the "Let's Grow Mushrooms" dvd, and I know pasteurizing is what we normally do, I don't know, I don't see how anything survives the processing & packaging of coir.


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