I see this confusion quite a bit on the forums, and will address why Ayahuasca is completely different from smoked dmt. It all started when Western Explorers in the Amazon equated Ayahuasca completely to "orally activate dmt" and ignored the Elephant in the room, which is Caapi.
To sum it all up in one sentence, DMT does not block serotonin, whereas tetrahydroharmine does, THH is the 2nd largest alkaloid in caapi, not found in rue. Serotonin blocking is a main effect of all the natural oral entheogens like LSD, mushrooms, mescaline, 5-meo-dmt, bufotenine (found in snuffs).
DMT is super potent at all the other 5-ht receptor sites, way exceeding even psilocin (see chart below), but in doing so, it must give up 5-ht1a binding, (serotonin blocking) which makes up over 80% of brain 5-ht, so when you combine dmt with thh and other components of caapi, you get the required "team action" which makes it complete. There is a world of difference between Ayahuasca and smoked dmt.
Ayahuasca is named after Caapi, and doesn't even need dmt to call itself Ayahuasca, Plant admixture psychotria DMT mainly acts to light up and color the visions from the Caapi vine according to Ayahuasca Shamans. Experienced Ayahuasqueros can see the visions even in low light or with very little if any admixture plant. DMT can also be made complete with tiny amounts of 5-meo-dmt as it fills in for the missing 5-ht1a serotonin blocking action that is missing with DMT.
New discovery: the recently discovered adrenoglomerulotropine (a hormone of the pineal gland, otherwise known as 6-Methoxytetrahydroharman) is an isomer of tetrahydroharmine, found in caapi. Caapi was said by the Indians to have Telepathine qualities as Ayahuasca was said to facilitate telepathic communication among tribal members.
Also contrary to what Wikipedia states, mescaline does not work thru the 5-ht2a receptor, but mainly thru the adrenal sites and it's strong serotonin blocking action.
LSD has very strong potency in blocking the action of serotonin. The morpholide lysergamide cousin had only about 1/10th the potency in blocking serotonin. Of the 5 diferent dialkylamides we studied LSD was the most potent and specific serotonin antagonist.
5-ht1a makes up >80% of brain 5-ht...5-ht1a agonism blocks serotonin
Thomas S. Ray, Psychedelics and the Human Receptorome (2010):
Breadth of Receptor Binding, 4.00=max, 0.00=min
LSD: 5ht1a = 3.73, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.88, mescaline = 3.61, 5-meo-DMT: = 4.00 (makes up >80% of brain 5-ht...5-ht1a agonism blocks serotonin)
LSD: 5ht1b = 4.00, DMT: = 0.00, psilocin = 2.19, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.41
LSD: 5ht1d = 3.70, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 3.40, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.48
LSD: 5ht1e = 2.62, DMT: = 3.28, psilocin = 3.03, mescaline = 3.16, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.72
LSD: 5ht2a = 3.54, DMT: = 2.58, psilocin = 2.14, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.98
LSD: 5ht2b = 3.11, DMT: = 3.91, psilocin = 4.00, mescaline = 3.97, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.69
LSD: 5ht2c = 3.11, DMT: = 3.42, psilocin = 2.52, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.55
LSD: 5ht5a = 3.64, DMT: = 3.16, psilocin = 2.83, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.84
LSD: -5ht6 = 3.75, DMT: = 3.35, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.73
LSD: -5ht7 = 3.77, DMT: = 4.00, psilocin = 2.82, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 3.69
LSD: ---D1 = 2.34, DMT: = 3.51, psilocin = 3.37, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 2.38
LSD: -A-2A = 2.93, DMT: = 2.75, psilocin = 1.36, mescaline = 2.92, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.00 (aesthetic/beauty adrenal a2a site)
LSD: -A-2B = 0.00, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.57, mescaline = 0.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 0.86 (aesthetic/beauty adrenal a2b site)
LSD: -A-2C = 0.00, DMT: = 3.53, psilocin = 1.03, mescaline = 4.00, 5-meo-DMT: = 1.57 (aesthetic/beauty adrenal a2c site)
An example of the importance of adding the serotonin reuptake inhibition properties of 5-meo-dmt for example to dmt (which totally lacks 5-ht1 reuptake properites on it's own) is shown below. This is the same way the snuff's are used in the amazon, as they naturally combine dmt with additives which cause the reuptake of 5-ht like bufotenin for example.
Oroc's experiment of combining 5-meo-dmt with DMT sounds imho very much like a short beautiful transcendental Ayahuasca experience, from his book "Tryptamine Palace":
DMT + tiny amounts of 5-meo-dmt (as found in Native Amazonian snuff's):
As an experiment (and in a foreign land) I smoked the last of the Bufo alvarius venom (the story of whose collection is described within the pages of Tryptamine Palace) with some ‘regular’ DMT (extracted from Jurema Preta.). In the vast majority of my early nigerine (DMT) experiences, I encountered visual fields of ‘dots’ that would come together to form images, much like the pointillism style of painting developed by Georges Seurat or the Australian Aboriginal song-line paintings.
** With the addition of the 5-MeO-DMT containing toad-venom to the DMT however, the visual characteristic was completely different and totally unique to my experiences so far. On this occasion there was a complete lack of ‘dots’ or ‘points’ of any kind, the fine lines of the constantly changing imagery were like those painted with a single-hair brush on Tibetan thangkas and due to the overwhelming artistry of what I was seeing, I could only think of the vaulted ceiling of the Sistine Chapel in comparison.
Sistene Chapel: This was without a doubt the most ‘visionary’ experience I have ever been fortunate enough to encounter and I lay there with my eyes shut watching the most fantastic parade of the Collective Unconsciousness imaginable, wishing that it would never end, and as I sit here now I can not even describe one tiny corner of it, since every image in the multitude of imagery was in such constant motion that they defied all but a glimpse. And then moments later, like a tent collapsing when its ropes are cut, the vision is gone. Leaving only a struggle of words to explain it, since nothing before or after has come close to this experiences visual majesty.
This experience leads to the interesting question of selectively combining DMT and 5-MeO-DMT for a more visionary and somewhat less overwhelmingly transcendental experience. (Or for the other way around). This combining of the two endogenous entheogens is being tested in changa blends (reportedly at a 90% DMT to 10% 5-MeO-DMT ratio), while many Pharmahuasca urban-shamans are also adding 5-MeO-DMT to their ayahuasca-analogues to transform and deepen that experience. It seems likely to me that the combining of DMT and 5-MeO-DMT in various ratios and manners will only become more popular as the exponentially increasing number of psychonauts search for new psychological terrain to explore.
professor8 (11/1/2010, he writes like a poet with special powers of imagination & expression):
Tetrahydroharmine (THH) has the ability to raise your vibration in a most powerful, yet subtle way. It brings a crystalline prismy texture to spice and adds a super clear watery dimension to Aya, like looking down through 10meters of shimmering Caribbean Sea on clear blue day. It brings a dimension of pure light to the entheogenic experience and encourages entities & intelligences of only the Highest Order. If one is not accustomed to perceiving these experiences with a spiritual perspective most of the nuances & subtleties THH brings on are overlooked and remain unseen and one would better enjoy Harmaline as a house painter chooses a roller over a brush, its about preference & choice.
Ayahuasca is Banisteriopsis caapi. It contains mostly harmine, thh & harmaline. B. caapi itself contains no DMT and can be used as is to produce visionary states that are like mental day dreams which lack true visual content. Often admixtures are used to increase the visual content of the ayahuasca dreams. Most admixture plants contain DMT.
Harmine & thh & harmaline used alone, can produce a mild dreamy psychedelic experience in which daydreams or lucid dreams can be experienced if the user chooses to do so. These dreams from the harmalas alone are vague and lack visual content, but usually have story lines and can be quite complex just like a real dream. The harmalas allow one to go in and out of dream consciousness at will. It takes some practice to learn how to enter a lucid dream with the harmalas alone. The harmalas won’t make you enter a lucid dream. You have to do it yourself by allowing your mind to drift off into a lucid dream.
DMT used alone, produces an intense visual experience, often very chaotic and fast moving, and quite amazing to watch. The visions of DMT alone usually lack meaningful content. The DMT visions are often just constantly morphine colors and shapes. Most of it makes absolutely no sense. Rarely will the visuals present to you a full blown dream with people, places, a story line, etc. But this does sometimes happen. But usually you just get a bunch of bazaar visions that are difficult to understand.
When combined, as in ayahuasca, the harmalas brings a dreamy quality to the DMT experience that makes it more like one is experiencing an actual dream, not just a bunch of fancy colors. With the two together, you have the visuals of DMT, plus the dream content of the harmalas. The harmalas are the boss here in this combination if used in ayahuasca proportions where the harmalas are not just used as an MAOI but is used specifically to allow dream consciousness to be entered by the user. DMT is just an additive used to increase the visual portion of the harmala induced dreams.
Using harmalas in very low doses, just as an MAOI, is not the same as using properly made ayahuasca. If the harmalas are used in low doses just for it’s MAOI effects, the trip lacks dream content and is just a bunch of bazaar DMT visual effects. This is not ayahuasca-like, it’s just orally activated DMT. That’s not the same. Its true that some ayahuasca is prepared this way, but such Ayahuasca is considered inferior by most natives. With Ayahuasca, the DMT is just an additive, not the main course. This is why Ayahausca made with only caapi is still called ayahuasca and considered nearly as powerful as Ayahuasca made with additive plants containing DMT.
This is something a lot of people don’t get. Ayahuasca is not simple orally activated DMT. It is the dream consciousness effects of the harmalas that are at play in ayahuasca. In order to experience lucid dreams from harmine without DMT, you need to practice a lot. But once you know how to do it, you don’t need DMT added to it anymore, unless you want the extra visual depth that DMT adds to the dreams.
So, “Dmt Or Ayahuasca?”, well that question is a personal question. Some people prefer DMT-less ayahuasca. Some people prefer just orally activated DMT. Some people prefer ayahuasca with a side order of DMT. Some people prefer the truly bazaar effects of smoked DMT alone.
My personal opinion is that DMT alone is FUN and can be quite frightening. It’s like a roller coaster ride and I like roller coasters. But don’t expect a deep meaningful life changing experience from it. Its pure visual FUN and nothing more. If I want a more meaningful experience I’d use an oral ayahuasca extract, or a smoked Yopo extract (not as effective as ayahuasca because Yopo is low on harmala-like alkaloids)
Authentic ayahuasca, high in harmine, thh & harmaline, and low on DMT, is like entering a full blown 3D dream with dream characters, storylines, etc. This can be a life changing experience. It’s more like sitting in a theater for several hours absorbing a story that’s meaningful because its about you. You leave with memories of places, things, people, etc., and possibly a new view on life.
Edited by tregar, 11 December 2018 - 11:59 AM.