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I've been playing with fly agarics, and I am wondering what I have made


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#1 strangelittlegirl

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Posted 18 December 2018 - 10:01 AM

Hello, I am brand new to this site, and I have a fairly short attention span for reading lists of rules, so I don't know where this post should go, and I have given up on working it out.

If anyone knows where it should go and tells me how to move it the I suely will do.

 

so lets get straight to it:

I have been playing with amanita muscaria for about a year now, adding it to things like vodka, wine, water, oil, in its dried and fresh forms, some from instructions that I have followed (from my borderline obsessive searching for other peoples personal experiences and methods)

and then some things I just did for no reason, just intuitive perhaps or maybe crazy.

I had been documenting most of my research and then I stopped it all for a few months. When I went back to my jars and bottles of different "potions" I found that a perfect disk, which I believe to be a pellicle/scoby, the likes of which are used for making kombucha, has formed on top of the surface of one of my concoctions.

 

for this concoction I filled a tall olive jar with chopped fresh slightly worm eaten amanita pieces which were mainly stem, I poured mulled wine and pure water 1cm over the pieces. I left it for two months or more (shaking when i remembered) and then i filtered through coffee filter and ended with approx 250ml of liquid. i noticed a nice pickly smell and the " amanita brain" was present, which i think is the spores that got through the filter as they're microscopic.

i left it again, sealed in a cold house with no direct sun and at some point it formed what looks like a scoby from kombucha. I opened the jar and it let out gas so I started burping the jar for a few weeks until it sank. last night i followed kombucha making instructions and used the majority of the liquid in with the scoby added to cooled sweet black tea.

 

I have no idea whether the liquid has any magical properties from the shrooms , I tried a pipette full last night with my partner and we felt no effect. I woke with a headache but i think that was just lack of water. I'm gonna increase the amount and try again in a minute.

 

any clever curious people out there had any similar experiences?

anyone know if it will ferment? if it does and more pellicles grow its pretty exciting as it can be shared, although, would it have any amanita properties????? or just be a ferment?

I will continue experimenting and hope to hear soe insights on here!

thanks for reading, from strange little girl.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



#2 Myc

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Posted 18 December 2018 - 10:14 AM

Now that's a cool introduction.

 

Just me talking here but........if you're not sure it's a scoby, be cautious consuming unknown microbes. 

By your own admission, you're really not sure if you have a "good" microbial population (scoby). 

 

I just ask you to exercise caution 

For example: 

Ergot fungus can cause gangrene. Certain molds can cause upper respiratory damage. Just like certain fungi can cause liver damage - which takes days to result in death. 

I would hate to see a brave, bold, pioneer go "toes-up". 


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#3 PJammer24

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Posted 18 December 2018 - 11:56 AM

You are wondering what you have made... I would say that you have made progress....

 

Progress toward what??? I don't know either but toward something... It certainly sounds cool!!


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#4 HooKworm

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Posted 18 December 2018 - 12:42 PM

Without analysis , you don’t know. A little knowledge. https://williamrubel...rved-mushrooms/
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#5 PistolPete13

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Posted 28 December 2018 - 04:13 PM

Photos would be really helpful.... A wild animal infested dirty specimen like you used, is a vector for anything from wild fungi (like wild yeasts and molds) to bacteria and viruses. You would need at least some sort of surface sterilization technique to be safe with your method. The 'nice pickly smell' you describe is most probably acetic acid that some sort of acetobacter in your culture produced when metabolizing the alcohol in the mulled wine. You would want a soft mushroom smell not a sharp acidic smell! You will definitely be culturing bacteria of some sort in that dilute, sweet mulled wine(not spores like you said, which would not form in an LC from stipe tissue, maybe mycelium fragments but I am doubting it), if the specimen was from a location where there was manure(or had just been contaminated along the way, by the worms that had eaten it for example) you could actually be culturing something dangerous to ingest raw. Examples being things like Lysteria, Fecal Coliforms, Botulism or any number of pathogens, in your conditions anaerobes would thrive. Then it sounds like you are consuming it raw, if you continue at the very least pasteurize it before consuming it.

 

Oh yeah, good luck with your experiments!


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#6 swayambhu

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 05:31 AM

I wrote a longer post that in retrospect was just a bunch of tedious mansplaining.

 

The somewhat opinion of a stranger on the internet; You probably introduced fungal and bacterial microbes on the mushroom which consumed the sugar in the mulled wine, and are now busy turning it into vinegar. I wouldn't drink it myself. Does the universe send headaches to reckless drinkers of mysterious potions as a warning? Probably not, but I would take it as one anyway. 


Edited by swayambhu, 03 January 2019 - 05:49 AM.

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#7 PistolPete13

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 05:06 PM


for this concoction I filled a tall olive jar with chopped fresh slightly worm eaten amanita pieces which were mainly stem, I poured mulled wine and pure water 1cm over the pieces. I left it for two months or more (shaking when i remembered) and then i filtered through coffee filter and ended with approx 250ml of liquid. i noticed a nice pickly smell and the " amanita brain" was present, which i think is the spores that got through the filter as they're microscopic.

i left it again, sealed in a cold house with no direct sun and at some point it formed what looks like a scoby from kombucha. I opened the jar and it let out gas so I started burping the jar for a few weeks until it sank. last night i followed kombucha making instructions and used the majority of the liquid in with the scoby added to cooled sweet black tea.

 

I am a stranger thats fair, but my warning was not somewhat opinion. For example;

 

 

Many home canners are not aware of the risk for botulism, a rare but potentially fatal form of food poisoning that has been linked to improperly canned food. The bacteria that cause botulism, Clostridium botulinum, are found in soil and can survive, grow, and produce a toxin (poison) in sealed jars of food.

 

https://www.foodsafe...me_canning.html

 

You know what else was found in soil? Those 'fresh slightly worm eaten aminita pieces' that were then put into an unsterilized jar that contained food previously and sugar was added and it was then cultured for months....... Pretty much anything on that specimen, food jar or dirty hands ect would have been cultured, hope for good toilet hygene also, fecal coliforms are extremely common on hands and under fingernails. Raw mushrooms are a high risk food for listeria poisoning which is also commonly found in soil. And the list goes on, you could really make yourself sick.....

 

 

Sorry I wasnt trying to be negative, just saying be safe and heat it up to kill any bad guys before putting it into your body.

 

EDIT; Although I do not know off the top of my head if botulinum toxin(or other toxic metabolites that potentially could be formed by other species) is broken down by heating?


Edited by PistolPete13, 03 January 2019 - 05:11 PM.


#8 swayambhu

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 05:37 PM

 

I am a stranger thats fair, but my warning was not somewhat opinion. 

 

 

If you are referring to my post, "somewhat opinion" was a typo for "somewhat informed opinion", i.e. I was referring to myself.

 

That said, I think you are being a bit alarmist. You are saying, by extension, that one should not eat unsterilised food, and that even if you do only eat sterilized food, you can still get botulism. People have been eating uncooked mushrooms and many other uncooked things besides for a while now, myself included. Yes, it might kill you, but so might weakening your immune system by not exposing yourself to any microbes at all.

 

I will also add that  the "wild animals" you find on mushrooms will be extremely unlikely to be carrying any pathogens that were not already present on or in the mushroom itself to begin with.


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#9 PistolPete13

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Posted 03 January 2019 - 08:01 PM

I probably am being a bit alarmist, but you did misunderstand what I was saying a little. I was not saying you cannot eat any unsterilized food, although it is strongly advised to wash anything eaten raw like salads, berries and mushrooms that have been in contact with soil.

 

Produce: Selecting and Serving it Safely

https://www.fda.gov/...s/ucm114299.htm

 

You will surely also have heard about listeria outbreaks at food processing plants.

 

Anyway, the danger I was trying to point out is when you take something that has grown in the soil like the above and add it unwashed with food added that microbes can eat and culture it for months. You are taking what was possibly harmless levels of these microbes and breeding them up to extremely high levels. So if you are a healthy individual you could pick a mushroom out of the soil eat it and the small levels of these microbes are overcome by your bodies immune system, you may also be unlucky on the rare occasion and get a bad stomach or worse(which is why the FDA warn to wash anything that has been in contact with soil, if eaten raw). Cant remember how many listeria kills each year but its a large number.

 

So you are saying that insects can not be vectors for contamination? So if an insect chances upon on a mushroom and starts eating it, it cannot leave behind fungal or bacterial spores? 


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#10 swayambhu

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 02:18 AM

So you are saying that insects can not be vectors for contamination? So if an insect chances upon on a mushroom and starts eating it, it cannot leave behind fungal or bacterial spores? 

 

I'm not quite saying that, because that is not quite the way things happen. The vast majority of insects I've found infesting mushrooms are, in my country at least, the larvae of certain species of moth, which are layed there as eggs. Insects don't generally go stomping from one contaminated microsystem to another uncontaminated one, or go from eating, for instance, contaminated faecal matter to eating mushrooms.

It's not worth arguing about, really, the bottom line being, as I'm sure you will agree, that one should exercise caution and not consume things that are instinctively repulsive.



#11 strangelittlegirl

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 09:55 AM

well, I haven't consumed it, and although throughout the whole process I used clean hands and sterile equipment, which I forgot to mention before, it has now formed a mould so I will.....be leaving it in the jar and watching it mutate because, why not, but I dont think I will be consuming it, I have never eaten furry things and I am not about to start.

Thanks for all the replies, nice and insightful and way more than expected- I thought I would log back on and have no replies.

I have 40g of dried amanita mushroom left, which were not bug eaten, nice clean pieces, dehydrated on low for a few days, which I later ground up and have been in a jar with anti-moisture thingys curing for aaaaages. so anyone (who has personal experience with this shroom) wanna suggest how I could best ingest that? I was thinking in a pasta sauce.... I have been looking on russian websites for recipes but there is such a lot of info out there and google translate is not perfect! 

I have already microdosed on this shroom with a tincture I made but not felt much, I want maximum results now for me and my partner! any help mucho appreciated



#12 PistolPete13

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 04:57 PM

I have only eaten Amanita once, it was sliced and put in the oven fresh at low heat and semi-dried, and then eaten like that. It did not taste very nice(to me anyway), and I must not have eaten enough(two slices) because it did not have any noticeable effect? So my experience is nearly non-existent, but since they did not suite my palate I personally would be trying to hide the taste a bit with something.

 

 

The vast majority of insects I've found infesting mushrooms are, in my country at least, the larvae of certain species of moth, which are layed there as eggs. Insects don't generally go stomping from one contaminated microsystem to another uncontaminated one, or go from eating, for instance, contaminated faecal matter to eating mushrooms.

It's not worth arguing about, really, the bottom line being, as I'm sure you will agree, that one should exercise caution and not consume things that are instinctively repulsive.

 

 

Yeah this conversation about mushroom pieces in wine did escalate a little :blush: (sorry).... About the insects inhabiting mushrooms, I think you will find it is the same everywhere. I think there is a much higher chance of what looked like worm eaten pieces where in fact from a fungus gnat or similar burrowing in and laying their larvae.



#13 coorsmikey

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 06:48 PM

I've haven't known anyone to try Amanita more than once, usually, they learn their lesson the first time.


Edited by coorsmikey, 04 January 2019 - 06:54 PM.

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#14 Myc

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 07:30 PM

I've haven't known anyone to try Amanita more than once, usually, they learn their lesson the first time.

 

Our site founder, Hippie3, said exactly those words based upon his own personal experience. 


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#15 swayambhu

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Posted 04 January 2019 - 08:00 PM

I tried muscaria once, which mostly involved feeling very sleepy, falling into a delirious sleep, then waking up feeling very odd indeed, disoriented and dissociated, then gradually feeling normal, then falling asleep again. I certainly won't be doing it again any time soon.



#16 Soliver

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Posted 22 January 2019 - 04:25 PM

I've seen a couple / three GLOWING reviews of ingesting smaller doses of amanita, but have never tried it more than once - I got some odd, deleriant-like effects that turned me off.  Maybe I did it wrong . . . some people like different effects though, so ... whatever works for ya - I'd love to see some reports and recipes all the same.

 

For what it's worth, I'd be highly sketched out by seat of the pants kombucha made from found, wormy mushrooms - or a fermented product made from any wormy vegetation, but I'm not much of an explorer when it comes to that type of stuff.

 

What positive effects have you had with other recipes / methods of ingestion?  Every few years I find dozens of amanitas, then see none for several years more - I'm always tempted to pick and dry some, but I don't really know why.  They're quite attractive.

 

:)

 

soliver






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