18 replies to this topic

[SteampunkScientist]

Here is the link to the actual paper: https://cds.cern.ch/...les/9510007.pdf

 

Isolated ION traps are being used in Quantum computers that are being investigated in labs now, this paper proposes ways to determine if the MWI is the true interpretation,and if so even goes so far as to say that we could communicate with that world up to several minutes after the "Decoherence" occurs that splits the world.

 

Well, that could be interesting!

[HooKworm]

often times I wonder if all the me’s in the many universes poop together. It must be a team effort. It’s a cool concept (MWI) , but I don’t see this advancing too far in my lifetime. Interesting still.

Edited by HooKworm, 19 December 2018 - 07:36 PM.

[Alder Logs]

If there are other universes, you'll have to post them here for me to get it.

[coorsmikey]

If there are other universes, you'll have to post them here for me to get it.

In the other universes it is posted here, IDK what the deal with this one is.

[Alder Logs]

Now I'm really confused!

[HooKworm]

I can see where things went weird here. But honestly , deja vu may be a common choice or experience over the universes. We never know.

[SteampunkScientist]

Well... There is a device that you can buy that has been available since the 1950's called a "Tunnel Diode" which is a true quantum device.  A very thing and highly doped pn junction is created, and at a certain forward bias voltage, the electrons begin to "runnel" through the barrier created by this pn junction.  At that point the device begins to show what is termed "negative resistance" and as the voltage increases, the current decreases (up to a point). In this tunneling region, we have the formation of a quantum state where the electron is both a particle and wave (it is the wave that traverses the barrier).

 

My idea is to connect 2 of these devices "facing" each other and place them in a small thermos of liquid nitrogen (purchased at the local welding shop).  Then bias them both at just into this quantum region.

 

Then take some sacraments and communicate with all the other versions of myself that are being created by the quantum superposition.      

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 20 December 2018 - 10:43 AM.

[Alder Logs]

When I went through the nearly year long Electronics Technician Class A School in the navy, as one of the very few (the only one I personally know of) high school dropouts to get this school, being the ADHD dyslexic non-reader, copying my homework every day, but having the knack of taking the navy's tests and passing them, it was only the three week unit on transistors and solid state that I had my only failing grade.   I dropped the test by one question.   Flunk any unit twice and you are washed out.  I repeated the three weeks and was just as snowed as I was the first time through, but passed the test by one question.  

 

The problem was, I came into the navy with an understanding of electron current theory (ECT) that my dad had taught me.   I completely could understand electron vacuum tubes that way.   But the difference between npn and pnp transistors could not be explained (so they told us) by way of the electron current paradigm.  They said that one form of transistors could be explained with ECT, but not the other.  With one form we could picture electrons moving across the junctions, but with the other, we were supposed to picture holes moving and the electrons being a conductor of these holes.   It fucking broke my brain.   Luckily, in 1966 when I got out into the fleet, most of the gear I worked on was still tubes.   Transistors were just triodes to me, but some of them were bass ackwards. 

 

By the time I was getting out of the navy, ETA School was being shortened and was now being called, "black box school."   The new solid state stuff was all modular and instead of circuit troubleshooting and single component replacement, students were being taught block diagrams more than schematics.   One just stuck a probe in a test point and found the bad unit and replaced that.    So, I guess it didn't matter if it was holes or electrons running around like mice inside that black box.  Just shitcan the whole thing and plug a new one in. 

 

When I got out, everything was going solid state and I just didn't want to have to keep studying to keep up, as reading, especially dry technical crap, was still very hard for me.   I was willing to trade a multimeter for a hammer or a wrench.

[HooKworm]

I see now , I’m out of my element. Let me know when there’s an ecology or microbiology post. Then I’ll be all handsy. But I’m too short to ride this ride.

[SteampunkScientist]

HooKworm, love that "I'm too short..." bit.   But don't sell yourself "short". Behind the dry as dust Erudite papers and decorum of science, are the real experimenters - like the people on this forum.

 

Boiling all this quantum superposition down, it's basically saying that at the scales of electrons and atoms, it is possible for 1 thing to be in 2 (or  more) places at once, or two things occupying the same space.  This is counter-intuitive and is basically why everyone shrugs their shoulders at quantum physics, and in the words of Neils Bohr, say things like "Shut up and calculate!".  In other words "dont look at it, it's hideous...but it works."

 

Well sure, and Epi-circles worked to calculate the position of the planets quite well, even though the geo-centric model made no sense - that is until Copernicus posited the current model of the solar system.  One of mankinds humbling moments to realize he is not the "center of things".

 

But, what if what is really going on is simply, at these tiny sizes, the multiverse just bleeds into each other?  So the weirdness is simply because we are seeing the influence of  other universes - the forces from there can be felt "here" and visa versa.

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 20 December 2018 - 05:52 PM.

[Alder Logs]

As my broken record would repeat, the uni (1) verse (turning) we are in can't be understood, physically, while the building block at the bottom (or is it Isaac Newton's shoulders?) is incorrect.  And that's both macro and micro.   If gravity is electric charge in a reciprocal relationship to motion, then it's quite likely the same thing in the atom, as motion replaces mass as the source, and both have that at scale.  

[SteampunkScientist]

I think the more fundamental question we need to ask ourselves is: Is the reality we perceive nothing more than "signals" impinging on biological sensors and producing a "model" inside the neurons of our brains (themselves part of this same reality) - and is there any way to show that these signals are coming from a "true" reality that exists outside "us" or are we all just one gigantic programmed simulation?  That the so-called "Big Bang" was nothing more than the computer being turned on?

 

That all of the forces of gravity, electromagnetism, etc are in truth, nothing more than functions of a fundamental operating system, and that there are innumerable programs just like this one running in parallel?

 

In a scenario like that, both the Atheist and any other form of Theist, or Spiritualist, etc, would all be right in a sense.  Whoever turned on the the "main computer" or programmed it, or built it, would be "God" yet no direct evidence of their existence would be found unless they put it in the program - but that also implies that they could put anything into the program.

 

It also means they can "pause" the program anytime and we would not know or even be able to tell it happened.

 

The strangeness of the quantum gives us a hint that something weird is going on, because of the fact that at those scales things are not "defined" sharply anymore.  Things don't behave in any fashion like they do at our everyday scales.  It's almost if we got down close the "bits"

 

But on the other end, at the level of the cosmos, again things are not behaving properly.  Galaxies are moving too "slow" so we posit this invisible "dark matter" to explain it, and dark energy to explain why the observable universe is expanding too fast.  Maybe, the processor needs an upgrade? it cant run fast enough at those scales? 

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 21 December 2018 - 08:05 AM.

[pharmer]

If there are other universes, you'll have to post them here for me to get it.

how long would it take to download a single universe with DSL?

[SteampunkScientist]

 

If there are other universes, you'll have to post them here for me to get it.

how long would it take to download a single universe with DSL?

 

Oh... around 13.7 billion years at last estimate...

 

So I would go with a "Lazy Loading" configuration on your server if I were you... 

 

Then again, you already did it in another parallel universe, so just steal their code or use their URL... 

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 21 December 2018 - 10:47 AM.

[Alder Logs]

Suppose we just understand understanding.

 

Nondualism and the fallacies of panpsychism and artificial sentience

[Direct Link]

[SteampunkScientist]

Great presentation there Alder, the real question is, can we test it?  Can we construct a test that will demonstrate which view is true? (between Scientific Pan-Psychism and Dualism, or something entirely different).  Without evidence it's all "Blue Sky".
 
Don't get me wrong, I think Kastrup is correct, that consciousness is fundamental, however how do we test it?
 
Here is a video from the other point of view, that of Scientific Pan-Psychism:
 

[Direct Link]

 
This one is pretty good too!
 

[Direct Link]

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 21 December 2018 - 01:20 PM.

[PistolPete13]

Boiling all this quantum superposition down, it's basically saying that at the scales of electrons and atoms, it is possible for 1 thing to be in 2 (or  more) places at once, or two things occupying the same space.  This is counter-intuitive and is basically why everyone shrugs their shoulders at quantum physics, and in the words of Neils Bohr, say things like "Shut up and calculate!".  In other words "dont look at it, it's hideous...but it works."

 

Yes, Einstein had trouble introducing the idea of quantum entanglement. A famous quote of his, relating to the exact scenario you described is;

 

 

it is harder to crack prejudice than an atom.

 

And relating to quantum mechanics (sorry if this is a bit off-topic), have you read about quantum cryptography? Quantum key distribution, using quantum entanglement is mind boggling when you start getting into it...

 

 

Entanglement based protocols    The quantum states of two (or more) separate objects can become linked together in such a way that they must be described by a combined quantum state, not as individual objects. This is known as entanglement and means that, for example, performing a measurement on one object affects the other. If an entangled pair of objects is shared between two parties, anyone intercepting either object alters the overall system, revealing the presence of the third party (and the amount of information they have gained).   https://en.wikipedia...ey_distribution

[SteampunkScientist]

The problem nobody seems to be addressing right now is that there is now a 500 qubit DWave quantum computer that solves essentially the "simulated annealing" process and it does it very fast, instantly to be exact.

That's the kind of algorithm you can use to solve reverse hashing problems with. In other words, security codes. Which means an almost instantaneous worldwide switch over to quantum security "one way" algorithms based on superposition, as your quote describes. It will probably be soon!

But in the chaos of that switch-over, many may lose a lot of money and property I hate to say. I hope not.

Edited by SteampunkScientist, 27 December 2018 - 11:41 PM.

[PistolPete13]

Yes, I think those computers will make traditional cryptography obsolete pretty quickly. Regarding quantum cryptography there was a proof of concept about 10 years ago,  and they are now at about this stage;

Chip-based quantum key distribution

https://www.nature.c...les/ncomms13984

 

Still well out of reach for the average user, but may even be available for us before the actual quantum computer(except governments ect). And to crack this you have crack the laws of physics!