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PEU and PESA on "Organic Miracle Gro Potting Soil" experiment


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#241 Ferather

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 08:05 PM

It's up to you if you want to test various products as nutrient sources, there are so many brands and mixes. I've never gone over 100g dry paper for experiments, as it's wasteful (and spawn is not strictly cheap or quick).

I can tell you that oysters will fruit from 25g of dry paper that has been enriched and contains around 75% total water content, so your small test samples should be able to fruit.



#242 Billcoz

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 08:12 PM

I don't know how to prepare paper, I was thinking of just making a mild solution according to the instructions, or I'd have to study up and collect a shit ton of data on how much of each micro/macro nutrient the shrooms are supposed to like, well roughly.

 

What do you think about the rooting hormone(indole-3-butyric acid) as an additive Ferather? It's the main ingredient in that spray I posted about.


Edited by Billcoz, 25 March 2019 - 08:12 PM.


#243 jkdeth

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 08:42 PM

Adding that hormone to substrate could inhibit fruiting. It has been used at pinning to increase yields in other mushrooms. Not reccomended, use at your own risk.
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#244 PistolPete13

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 09:07 PM

@Billcoz I have posted about my experiences with the nutrients you are talking about a couple of times on here now. I will have some solid results with pics to post soon, in the meantime if you need some quick time saving tips I have had great success doing it this way. Take a bucket make up a vegetative cycle mix (micro and grow), this is a similar nutrient profile to manure which they grow in naturally. I adjust the pH up to just under 7 with potassium hydroxide. Then take a block of coir and break pieces off with your hand and drop them into the bucket, stir and keep adding the dry coir until when it is fully soaked it is at field capacity(verm to field capacity would help). Pastuerize or sterilize, and spawn it! Like I said I have done this before and in about a week or two should have some pics for you. I was just about to start a thread about it (you beat me by about a week :tongue: )...If you want more tips, maybe start another post? Unless Deleena is happy with the hi-jack?

 

PS: I did it with excellent success with a dry potting mix hydrated that way also.


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#245 Billcoz

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 09:29 PM

@PistolPete, I might try it for the next batch, I'll post about it if I do.

 

@JKDeth, I was asking about that because it's in that spray I had seen, they claimed it increased yield and "chemical content" in cubensis, sounded gimmicky, but do you have a reason to think it would decrease fruiting? I am just curious, it wasn't like I was all excited to find a magic formula haha.



#246 raymycoto

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 09:39 PM

Looks like one can pick up the indole-3-butyric on ebay. Around $0.50 per gram at the cheapest rate. That may be the cheapest way to go if anyone wants to give it a go.

 

I am inherently skeptical about any great leaps and bounds that one might get out of it. However, learning about how small factors can tip the balance between colonization and contamination, anything that is cheap and can help a tiny bit with colonization speed seems reasonable. Not that you would get a payback from buying a kilo of the i3b, but it might be a part of a healthy grow just like the right pH, macro and micro nute balance and such could help if you were going all out to tweak all parameters. So if someone wants to do a trial, I'm eager to find out. Or perhaps track down the scientific article that might be out there on the topic.


Edited by raymycoto, 25 March 2019 - 09:46 PM.

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#247 Billcoz

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 10:36 PM

Looks like one can pick up the indole-3-butyric on ebay. Around $0.50 per gram at the cheapest rate. That may be the cheapest way to go if anyone wants to give it a go.

 

I am inherently skeptical about any great leaps and bounds that one might get out of it. However, learning about how small factors can tip the balance between colonization and contamination, anything that is cheap and can help a tiny bit with colonization speed seems reasonable. Not that you would get a payback from buying a kilo of the i3b, but it might be a part of a healthy grow just like the right pH, macro and micro nute balance and such could help if you were going all out to tweak all parameters. So if someone wants to do a trial, I'm eager to find out. Or perhaps track down the scientific article that might be out there on the topic.

I have some IBA, that's the only ingredient in most rooting powders/gels, and I have some powdre with1-napthalenaecetamide(NAA) which is another rooting hormone, but that powder also contains thiram(tetramethyl thiuram disulfamide), which is a fungicide, ectoparasiticide to prevent fungal diseases in seed and crops and similarly as an animal repellent to protect fruit trees and ornamentals from damage by animals, so I won't be trying that kind of rooting powder.



#248 jkdeth

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 11:08 PM

That hormone has been tested for use by commercial mushrooms farmers. It reduces yield added to substrate, may increase yield applied at pinset. I don't remember the dilution, I wouldn't use it.
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#249 Billcoz

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Posted 25 March 2019 - 11:16 PM

That hormone has been tested for use by commercial mushrooms farmers. It reduces yield added to substrate, may increase yield applied at pinset. I don't remember the dilution, I wouldn't use it.

Cool, sounded interesting. Apparently that "myco-blast" spray was designed to be applied at spawn, it says to spray the grain spawn before mixing the sub.



#250 DreamingRaven

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 07:50 AM

 

That hormone has been tested for use by commercial mushrooms farmers. It reduces yield added to substrate, may increase yield applied at pinset. I don't remember the dilution, I wouldn't use it.

Cool, sounded interesting. Apparently that "myco-blast" spray was designed to be applied at spawn, it says to spray the grain spawn before mixing the sub.

 

 

 

Personally, I'm not putting anything on my spawn.


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#251 Ferather

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 08:05 AM

Plant hormones are for plants, which respond to those hormones. Fungi are not plants, and therefor the hormone would likely either be decayed, have no effect, or as mentioned inhibit growth.

Most plant 'fertilizers' are not strictly plant only, because they are a general array of essential minerals (such a A-Z vitamin and mineral tablet for humans) < don't go there.

 

I would leave the spawn as spawn, untouched, and modify only the substrate you wish to spawn to. People have enriched grains in the past, too much risk.

Grains already contaminate easily due to their bio-available starch (almost everything decays it), adding nutrition = contamination bomb.

 

PistolPete13 is also very accurate when mentioning pH, and to mimic dung by nutritional composition.

 

http://docsdrive.com...2k10-92-101.gif

 

----

 

If you want to know what nutrition mushrooms contain, here is a list of gourmet-edibles.

Change the item to 100g where needed, to make fair comparisons.


Edited by Ferather, 26 March 2019 - 08:49 AM.

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#252 Billcoz

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 09:07 AM

Plant hormones are for plants, which respond to those hormones. Fungi are not plants, and therefor the hormone would likely either be decayed, have no effect, or as mentioned inhibit growth.

Most plant 'fertilizers' are not strictly plant only, because they are a general array of essential minerals (such a A-Z vitamin and mineral tablet for humans) < don't go there.

 

I would leave the spawn as spawn, untouched, and modify only the substrate you wish to spawn to. People have enriched grains in the past, too much risk.

Grains already contaminate easily due to their bio-available starch (almost everything decays it), adding nutrition = contamination bomb.

 

PistolPete13 is also very accurate when mentioning pH, and to mimic dung by nutritional composition.

 

http://docsdrive.com...2k10-92-101.gif

 

----

 

If you want to know what nutrition mushrooms contain, here is a list of gourmet-edibles.

Change the item to 100g where needed, to make fair comparisons.

Yeah, I thought it sounded gimmicky, the ad for the spray claimed to get better yeilds and "chemical content", but I can't even find the ad anymore on google, so they must not be selling it anymore. I have searched for info on IBA for fungi and found nothing. If you actually read my last post, I was saying some of the rooting powder I have(NAA) has fungicide in it, so I wouldn't put it on my spawn either. 


Edited by Billcoz, 26 March 2019 - 09:08 AM.


#253 Ferather

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 01:25 PM

Ultimately the idea could be called DIY dung (do-it-yourself dung), where coir, paper or wood, is the main carbon source (mostly cellulose-phenols, cellulose and starch are composed of glucose, equally).

Much fewer organisms decay raw cellulose, even less do if it contains inhibitory phenols-other (such as wood), unlike starch, cellulose is considered complex, and much less bio-available.

 

This is the reason coir or paper can be used open to air, and simply pasteurized, the organisms present will be much more limited, and easier to kill (in most cases).

Cellulose is built as structure, rather than energy storage, else the grains may as well be made from cellulose over starch (and an enzyme change).

 

Anyway so you have your low risk high carbon source, you now need to add the essentials (nitrogen, potassium, so on).

 

Cellulase  ||  Nitrogen cycle < Image  ||  Manure < note: ammonical and ureic nitrogen, P2O5, and K20

 

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For giggles: You can build a house out of wood, but not out of rice.


Edited by Ferather, 26 March 2019 - 02:06 PM.

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#254 jkdeth

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 01:46 PM

The benefits of dung have less to do with "fertilizer" nutrient content, more with microbial content, both living, and dead killed during composting.

#255 Ferather

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 02:14 PM

That might be true to some level, but that doesn't apply to grain + coir, where it grows and fruits without, or with very limited bacteria.


Edited by Ferather, 26 March 2019 - 02:16 PM.


#256 jkdeth

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 02:25 PM

It wasn't meant to explain that. The point is regardless of what you supplement coir or paper with, you aren't mimicking dung. Non microbial nutrients are easily supplemented.

#257 Ferather

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Posted 26 March 2019 - 02:32 PM

Oh right, fair point. I thought you where implying Cubensis was secondary and required bacteria, I apologize.

 

:tongue:

 

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Has anyone ever used the gourmet style enriched grow-bag with Cubensis? By swapping the wood + bran, for coir + bran, and then use about 2-10% spawn?

Grow bags for oysters (with filter) should be easy enough to work with over a tub, once colonized open or cut holes (not fully exposed).

 

There are many additives, but commonly things like wheat bran, soy hulls, waste coffee, waste tea, so on.


Edited by Ferather, 26 March 2019 - 02:51 PM.

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#258 Deleena24

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Posted 29 March 2019 - 11:22 AM

Oh right, fair point. I thought you where implying Cubensis was secondary and required bacteria, I apologize.

:tongue:

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Has anyone ever used the gourmet style enriched grow-bag with Cubensis? By swapping the wood + bran, for coir + bran, and then use about 2-10% spawn?
Grow bags for oysters (with filter) should be easy enough to work with over a tub, once colonized open or cut holes (not fully exposed).

There are many additives, but commonly things like wheat bran, soy hulls, waste coffee, waste tea, so on.


Using wood for cubes is almost never done, so youre going to have a hard time finding data. Theyre dung lovers at heart.

#259 Ferather

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Posted 30 March 2019 - 09:05 AM

I said swap the wood for coir. 20kg wheat bran example (here). Wheat flour vs wheat bran (nutritional composition).

 

:biggrin:


Edited by Ferather, 30 March 2019 - 09:14 AM.


#260 vertygo

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Posted 09 April 2019 - 03:41 PM

Anyone happen to know the largest brand / model microwave out there is ? I'm going to get one just to try this method out, but for monos.






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