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Billcoz's PF Tek experiment(maybe)


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#1 Billcoz

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 03:14 AM

 Hey guys, to my surprise, I'm getting low on stash after the NY and x-mas(gifts), and I'm having some FAE probs(and also some success) with my bulk grows. I want to get my dry stash #s up quickly, so I'm gonna do a batch of pf jars.

 

 I'm gonna use 1/2 pt reg mouth jars. The lids have three 1/4" holes around the edge filled with red rtv silicone to make self-healing injection ports, and also a 1/4" gas exchange hole in the center, covered with a piece of tyvec from an envelope for filters, glued in place with rtv.

 

 My question about this is, since they have the filters, do they need the verm layer? It seems obvious but I just have never seen pics of jars without the verm layer on top-

IMG_20190108_083913.jpg IMG_20190109_025540.jpg IMG_20190109_025628.jpg (I just included pics to make the post more exciting)

 

 Also, I am wondering, would adding other ingredients(ones I have on hand) like gypsum, potato flakes, honey/karo/brown sgr/coconut sgr, coffee grounds or expired instant coffe(in the water), etc, help make bigger fruits? Thanks.

 

 

 

 



#2 Billcoz

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 03:39 AM

I forgot to mention that I have read about Hippie3's "supertek" recipe, but I don't have most of that stuff and I'm just gonna use what I already have on hand. I'd like to get anyone here on topia's opinion on those ingredients I listed I'll list em again.

 

I know most of this could go in the mix and wouldn't hurt, but I would need to know how much of each would be appropriate.

 

-coffee - grounds, instant(expired '16), in the water, or added dry?

 

-instant potatoes

 

-honey

 

-brown sugar

 

-coconut sugar

 

-gypsum

 

-anything else you can think of

 

I'd be willing to take suggestions from you guys for an experiment.


Edited by Billcoz, 09 January 2019 - 03:43 AM.


#3 Billcoz

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Posted 09 January 2019 - 07:34 PM

 Hey guys, as I said I would, I made up two batches of pf/brf jars. One batch is three "standard" formula, 1/2pt, reg mouths. The other batch is four 1/2pts(1 wide mth), with no verm layer, but under filtered lids with self-healing ports in the standard pf spots, filter in the center.

 

That batch is the experiment, with all the ingredients listed in the first post; except the 'tater flakes, I forgot to add those. To half of the regular amount of water for a half batch(1 cup), I added  two drops of honey, a teaspoon of gypsum, and a teaspoon of instant coffee. I shook it in a bottle to mix the gypsum & coffee, and it was almost pure foam, even after letting it settle for a half hour. 

 

I mixed that to 2 cups verm, then added the other half of the water and it was very wet compared to normal, but the foam made it airy and fluffy, but still too wet. So I added the BRF, and it was clumpy, so I added a half cup more of verm, and it seemed pretty close to the consistency I normally get with the standard recipe, but it seems to still have the airyness from the foam, and a slight coffee odor and darker color.

 

I am gonna use the brf/water/myc syringes that I made 2 1/2 months ago. At least one still has live myc(I think they all do) cuz I made a tiny brf jar(1/4pt) and hit it up with the syringe, and four days later there is quarter sized myc at each innoc point. That way I know they will start fast from myc, rather than spores(BTW, It's B+ again) and possibly beat contams that might like the nutes(if they get in).

 

So I will be updating here of course(I make way too many long ass posts lol), to track and document results, on the best forum I've found. The others don't respond at all to me lol.

 

I can't wait to see if it does better than the standard pf recipe. I am thinking using grain soak-water would add some nutes, man I would love to hear any crazy ideas you guys have, please post em here. I might try em.



#4 coorsmikey

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Posted 10 January 2019 - 12:36 AM

Man you need one of these....

 71Jb-06AyrL._SL1500_.jpg


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#5 Billcoz

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 05:50 AM

coorsMikey, yeah man,  I hate getting one of the burrs jabbed underneath my fingernail when trying to clean up the jagged drill-holes. 

 

After PCing these brf & experimental brf jars, they have shrunk quite a bit. I did not add a dry verm barrier, I used P.O. tyvec, and RTV ports.

 

Question, the tyvec from the envelopes seems less "breathable" than other tyvec(paint-suit, house-wrap, kite material), polyfil, or micropore tape, but it will allow enough gas exchange, right? 

 

I willnadd some pics later when my phone is charged so you guys can see how much the cakes shrank in the jars, all of em shrank, not just the experimental jars.

 

I nocced em up with one of my trusty brf/water/B+ myc LI syringes. I nocced up a 1/4 pint brf jar on 1/05, and it's about 45-50% colonized, so I'm very impressed with live my for colonization speed, compared to spores.

 

I do have one question about the terminology we use. We say, "ms", for spores in water/syringes, but is there such a thing as"monospore", or something else? "Singlespore"? That would be hard to pull off without serious lab equipment. Is it just referring to live myc vs. spores? Thanks, i'll add some pics later.



#6 Billcoz

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Posted 14 January 2019 - 02:18 AM

Anyone ever see this? I imagine it is a gimmick. I guess it contains vitamin/mineral "solution concentrate", calcium sufate 101 01 41 4, which I think is just gypsum, and indole-3-butyric acid, which is a plant rooting hormone.

 

I guess it is for spraying sub or cakes instead of the btween flush dunk, and prolly adds something, but i'd rather just mix the stuff myself, or not bother. 

 

What do you guys think?-Myco-Blast Spray.jpg



#7 Billcoz

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Posted 15 January 2019 - 08:10 PM

Update-Well the experimental brf jars(all started 1/11, nocced with brf/water/live B+ myc syringe)) are about the same as the plain brf-IMG_20190115_180618.jpg IMG_20190115_180638.jpg IMG_20190115_180655.jpg -This one(the only wide mouth) either didn't germ yet because it has not enough GE(doubt it, but  has 4 layers micropore on one 1/4" hole), or it's possible I forgot to noc it up, I had taken 5 grms and was trying to beat the start of the trip, while working on the jars, so I mighta missed that one.

 

Here's a 1/4 pt I nocced up on the 5th-IMG_20190115_180515.jpg


Edited by Billcoz, 15 January 2019 - 08:10 PM.


#8 Billcoz

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Posted 20 January 2019 - 06:12 AM

Well, the plain brf jars are doing a little better than the experimental jars. It's possible they are all drier than they should be. All were from the same B+ myc/water syringe, nocced up on 1/11, so after 8 days, here's the plain brf-IMG_20190120_031520.jpg IMG_20190120_031705.jpg

And here's the ones with instant coffee, gypsum, & honey added-IMG_20190120_032741.jpg IMG_20190120_034618.jpg

The last pics(below) are of the syringe of myc/brf/h2o "LI", or "slurry"(not sure which), like I used for these. I was thinking about posting a new topic at some point, properly explaining the tek/method I used for making the brf/h2o "agar" and syringes, without a pc, but here's the basics.

 

It's amazing, new guys with no pc, only a pot & lid can make it in small jars & use as like an agar substitute, and these syringes with live myc cut down colonization times, and when first inoculated, jars are less likely to 'tam than with spore water.

 

It will grow 2D like agar, and is not that different imo, but I've read posts where guys put this method down, or say that "there are no substitutes for agar", and they might be sorta right. It is less transparent and a different nutrient profile, but ime, it would be easy enough to see any off-colors from contams, and it worked great.

 

After the jars are colonized you can make "LI" syringes and use em to noc up regular brf cakes, grain, or whatever. Mine took 2-3 days to see growth from ms, & 2 weeks to fully colonize the jar/plate. 

 

All you do is squirt sterile water over the myc in the jars, shake it around, maybe even try to slice it up a lil bit with the needle tip(if it's long enough), and aspirate the water over it a few times, then suck it back up and cap the syringe. It will look like brf/water, with no myc in the syringe at first, but after a while you can see the myc cloud forming & growing.

 

The coolest thing, aside from not needing a pc, is that it only takes a drop of spore solution to colonize each jar, and you can make many, many, many syringes, full of live myc from ONE brf/h2o jar, AND It will cut down the colonization time by almost half.

 

The brf/water "agar" was made on 11/8/18, and the syringes about 2 weeks later, after the jars  were fully colonized-

IMG_20190120_032127.jpg IMG_20190120_032102.jpg



#9 Billcoz

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Posted 23 January 2019 - 06:33 PM

Well, these jars are going pretty slow, I think because they are a lil dry and compacted, which I have no idea why that happened, possibly just over PCed. So to try and speed it up, and give the myc some moisture, I just squirted in 1cc brf/myc/water from another syringe I had made at the same time as the one I nocced the jars up with. We'll see if it helps.

 

I had that single 1/4 pint brf cake ready to birth, so I grated it up and mixed it with about 1/2pt of sterile coir/verm. And for a FC,

I had this plastic ball that held chocolates, like this- lindor-truffles-milk-chocolate-SKU-c0043

that I melted a few holes in, and covered em with  tyvec paint suit material. So I just put the grated cake-spawn/coir/verm mix in there, about 2" deep, right up to the line of holes I put in the bottom half(GE holes). I put the top half(with 4 fae holes) on, and stuck it in a gallon freezer bag, which I left patially un-zipped for air.

Check it out-

IMG_20190123_162730.jpg IMG_20190123_162639.jpg

So any shooms might have a tight fit in there, but I am thinking it will look cool. Anyone see any flaws here?


Edited by Billcoz, 23 January 2019 - 06:34 PM.

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#10 WalkingCatfish

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Posted 28 January 2019 - 10:54 AM

If it looks cool, you're already winning.  The only flaw I see is that there should be a tiny guy in there, somewhere. A FIMO machine elf, or something. :biggrin:


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#11 Billcoz

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 02:58 AM

Here's some update pics of these pf jars, still not fully colo, again, I think it's slow because of lack of gas permeability of the PO envelope tyvec filter. Both the expiremental, and plain jars are slow, so I don't know what else it could be-IMG_20190128_185900.jpg IMG_20190128_190023.jpg IMG_20190128_185657.jpg IMG_20190128_185726.jpg -Anyone have an idea?

Actually the experimental jars are even slower, but all are slow.


Edited by Billcoz, 31 January 2019 - 02:59 AM.


#12 jkdeth

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 04:11 PM

More likely genetics or maybe too dry. If the X jar is very much slower, could be too much sugar.

#13 Billcoz

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 12:37 AM

More likely genetics or maybe too dry. If the X jar is very much slower, could be too much sugar.

It was live culture, not MS, and all the popcorn jars I shot up with the same syringe of myc-water colonized in 9-11 days, and a 1/4 pt cake that I used micropore the for the lid holes colonized in a week.

 

On 1/23 I injected 1-2cc of sterile water in each because I suspcted they were too dry, and that did seem to get it moving but they still went slow, and now only 1 or 2 are 100%, one has a pin.

 

The reason I started thinking the prob was GE after reading something saying that aerial myc "spikes" on top of the cake might be a sign of lack of air exchange, but it might have originally from getting too dry which could have made it compacted, and now even though I added moisture(and there is moisture on the glass) it might just be too tightly packed.

 

Does that sound more likely than lack of GE?



#14 jkdeth

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 12:26 PM

Too tightly packed can cause it. The myc needs to breath as grows.

#15 Billcoz

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 10:35 PM

JKdeth, they are slowly still colonizing, a couple are 100%(the outside at least), do you think they will stall and not fruit? Would it be better to let them slowly finish colonizing the cakes, or better to birth them and see if they fruit? Or, woud it be wise to try to crush them up, maybe birth em and break em up, then return to the jars to colonize? Do you think the un-colonized brf in there would go "bad"? Thanks, it's a lot of Qs.



#16 jkdeth

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 10:43 PM

I'd let them colonize.
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#17 Billcoz

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 02:25 AM

I'd let them colonize.

Cool man, thanks again.

 

Actually I am so lazy, and I have popcorn grows going on, so that's what I would end up doing anyways.


Edited by Billcoz, 05 February 2019 - 02:26 AM.


#18 Billcoz

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 09:53 PM

Here is that grated brf cake in a chocolate candy ball container FC, still not pinning-IMG_20190206_195624.jpg IMG_20190206_195633.jpg



#19 Billcoz

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Posted 12 February 2019 - 02:10 AM

HA! Some of these jars made it to 100% as of yesterday, I am surprized lol. It's been 34 days since I inoculated them with LIVE MYC that colonizd the popcorn jars in 7-10 days, from the same syringe of live myc/brf/water.

 

The prob was that they got very compacted, then dried out a bit, and I re-hydrated, rejuvenating the myc, but with the cakes so compacted, it was still sssllllooooowwwwww growth, and a few are still gettin there. 

 

2 of each of the plain brf, and exp brf jars are at 100%, and starting consolidation. I will take some pics in the morning and post em here.



#20 Billcoz

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 06:44 AM

Well, I dunked these PF cakes in the jars, didn't need to rinse cuz no verm layer, soaked for about 18 hrs, then since I was busy and had no time to set up the FC, I just emptied the water out and sealed the lids back on until I get the mini SGFC set up, I'll be doing that later this morning and I'll post some pics of it.

 

Here's a pic of the first pin in that Lindt chocolates ball FC, spawned from a grated up 1/4pt cake to coir/verm on 1/23, a month for one measly pin, shit! Oh well lol, this particular B+ strain seems to take longer to pin, though it's myc colonizes extremely quick, but the homemade spawn bags(link to thread) are the same way, almost a month for 1 pin, and the tubs spawned from the myc from the same agar plate did as well, so I think it's genetics causing slow pinning. Other B+ "strains" I have grown out are faster than this, and it seems to produce a ton of short, thick, solid stemmed, midget fruits that seem more potent by weight than other B+ I've grown, here ya go-IMG_20190224_061351.jpg

 

Again, I will post some pics of those PF cakes after I get the FC set up later this morning.


Edited by Billcoz, 24 February 2019 - 06:45 AM.

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