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The origin of civilization- or, at least, the stories there of...


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#1 PJammer24

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 02:01 PM

Hopefully this is the fix you were looking for Alder...

 

In what is, today, accepted as fact about the origin of civilization is that it wasn't until the end of the last glacial maximum, when people could farm, were humans able to set up shop and support larger populations. It was at this time, mainstream historians believe the first civilizations and urban centers sprung up in Mesopotamia. With the ability to remain sedentary came the development of writing, etc... We have some stone tablets from these cultures, they were Akkadian and Sumerian speaking, and what is striking is that from these tablets we have found that there is a striking similarity to the stories of the bible... There are similarities in both the old and new testaments... There are also similarities between the stories on these tablets and traditions of many cultures all over the world, ie. the flood... Stories of the flood can be found in almost every region around the world, it is actually pretty astounding!!

 

The Akkadian tradition is known as the Epic of Gilgamesh.

 

Other similarities between Akkadian/Sumerian tradition and the bible include an Eden like paradise called Dilmun (sp), A story similar to Cain and Able, The first man being created from the rib of the first woman (this is reversed for bible, damn men....).... Along with others...

 

New Testament similarities include a story of the Shepard King rising from the dead similar to how Jesus did on the 3rd day (Easter). The main difference in this story is that the Shepard King's sister also rose from the dead (again, pretty sure a male dominated society rewrote this)

 

So here is what I ponder:

 

Do all these stories stem from the original stories of ancient Akkadia/Sumeria, having been adapted to the cultural norms of the time by those adopting them? If yes, does this prove that the Akkadian/Sumerian cultures were truly the first to develop civilization from which everything else has grown?

 

OR

 

Do the similarities between the stories and the vast number of cultures that share them prove that these stories are all true and that they have been passed down through oral tradition by many different cultures that developed independently of each other, accounting for their slight variance?

 

And/Or

 

Did these stories not originate with the Akkadian/Sumerian cultures at all? Are these stories passed down through oral tradition that extends back far beyond the Mesopotamian civilization which is deemed the cradle of human civilization and culture? If this is true, the first civilizations sprung up long before the cities in Mesopotamia...

 

I personally think that these stories, in all traditions sprang from a root source. There are too many similarities between many of them. I also think that Mesopotamia likely was not the original center of human civilization. At the end of the last glacial maximum, a much higher percentage of the planets H2O was locked up in ice. I speculate that as that ice melted, civilizations, though likely small, were inundated with water as water levels rose around the globe... This is where things get a little fuzzy for me... I think that it is likely that the stories, especially those that developed in the middle east, ie. the bible, stem from the same tradition as those that were recorded on the Akkadian/Sumerian tablets... I think these are all the same stories having been adapted by the cultures as they adopt them.... The story I am not sure about is the flood story... I think this story may be so wide spread due to water levels rising and actually flooding many early population centers that were located along waterways throughout the habitable range at that time... 

 

I think the answers to some of these questions can be found on the ocean floor and maybe lost to history... 

 

What do you think? I did this fast, so hopefully it reads well... If there are any glaring holes, please call me out!



#2 Alder Logs

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Posted 11 January 2019 - 09:08 PM

I made a comment in your other thread about my personal issues with physics and cosmology.   I think it would be better that you read Worlds In Collision before we discuss anything about what are thought of as glacial epochs.   I have written quite a lot of posts, here and elsewhere, and maybe I can find something of them to cut and paste here.   Or, as usually happens, I write it all out again.  

 

You see, the world (and universe) according to Alder Logs, is a much different place than is to be found behind ivy covered walls.   I will either blow your mind a bunch more times, or you will see, as academics must, I am a total whack job.   But, in all of it, I leave few disciplines untouched, and I do it all with a crazier than shit holistic perspective unique to this one self educated mind, though I sometimes stand on the shoulders of other outcasts and even the occasional trance medium.  


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#3 Alder Logs

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 08:20 AM

So, I wrote this yesterday on another forum that is discussing the rather sudden changes in the magnetic poles.  It was pretty much ignored and the discussion went right back to linking NASA sources.

 

======================

 

In my hollow Earth model, the magnetic poles are an artifact of currents in magma flows around the planet.  When the previous rotational axis changed in the seventh century BCE by way of a crustal slippage, the main magma flow became canted from its old plane of rotation, where the axis was in the area of Davis Straight.   For the centuries since that event, magnetic north has been spiraling slowly toward true north as the magmas eroded their main course toward alignment with the rotation of the crust.   The sudden shifting of magnetic poles shows that these interior currents have undergone a sudden change, as in carving out new channels between the inner and outer crusts, creating changes in their dominant flows or currents.   Perhaps this past year's unprecedented deep earthquakes are an indication of what is happening in this magma belt finding new flow patterns.  

 

Doesn't it seem that the historic wanderings of the magnetic poles show us something more akin to fluid dynamics.   Wouldn't that be more sensible than the idea of the inverse square rule, taken to ridiculously extreme conclusions, where the baseless assumption of a mass generated gravity compresses nickel and iron to solidity, at infinite pressures, while at temperatures which demand they should be liquid?   Why not compress water and see if you can make it turn into ice?

 

This imaginary compressed solid core is only there to justify the current scientific paradigm wherein a solid core is needed there to be the permanent magnet of Earth's magnetic field.   The solid core is used to answer the blockage of P waves, where a hollow core might answer that question much easier.   But then, since Newton used his cannonball thought experiment to essentially weigh the Earth, and only a calculation after his assumption was declared to be physical law can any calculation be applied, our Earth cannot be hollow.  

 

F = G x m1 x m2 / r2 still sits at the base of nearly every way science looks at everything.    It's really only about how cannonballs fly, but it's the LAW!   We can put cannonballs into orbit, so we believe it.   Stupid human tricks.



#4 August West

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 01:10 PM

...the rather sudden changes in the magnetic poles.

The pole shift is most likely the result of Trump colluding with the Russians.



#5 Alder Logs

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 04:15 PM

 

...the rather sudden changes in the magnetic poles.

The pole shift is most likely the result of Trump colluding with the Russians.

 

Well, at least until proven otherwise in the MSM.



#6 Juthro

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 04:28 PM

 

 

...the rather sudden changes in the magnetic poles.

The pole shift is most likely the result of Trump colluding with the Russians.

 

Well, at least until proven otherwise in the MSM.

 

 

It's not hard to imagine Russia playing tRump and his people during the campaign, at least not from where I'm sitting.  

Just because the liberal media monsters are trying to capitalize on these things doesn't mean nothing ever happened.



#7 PJammer24

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 05:54 PM

I won’t even pretend to have the expertise to contemplate the center of the earth... If I was forced to speculate, my initial assertion would be that it is dynamic and constantly in flux. The pressure would lead me to lean toward solid state being unlikely...

Whatever is at the center may not be solid... I actually think that it may be a yet undiscovered element.... Whatever it’s composition, it has a density that is higher than everything that surrounds it, which is why it is at the center of the earth.... Something this dense, and with the mass associated, over billions of years, would have worked its way to the center of the planet in it entirety.... This element may very well and possibly likely be in a liquid state.

The glacial epochs are just the basis I used to describe the timing of the period discussed and factors little into the actual discussion as proposed.

I believe your assertion is that the earth has changed Dramatically over shorter periods of time than what is generally accepted. That supports some of what the article in my other post suggests... How much evidence would exist of previous rises in civilization, not necessarily human, with how much the earth has changed and folded over itself...

I think the cyclical nature of pretty much everything has a place in this also. Not just the rise and fall of civilization but also in the mechanics of the planet and how it effects the poles and glacial epochs.


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#8 August West

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 05:55 PM

I have yet to hear a single thing that stands out as some sort of election illegality - and I've been waiting...and waiting...and waiting (and I'll keep listening). Trump and Russians - sure. They're the only people that would loan his bankrupt ass any money. I have no doubt he has dealings with Russians.

 

The DNC lost because they colluded (and ran) with arguably the most disliked politician in the history of the United States - the end.

 

Back to the regularly scheduled thread, if you like...


Edited by August West, 12 January 2019 - 05:56 PM.

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#9 Juthro

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 07:29 PM

The DNC lost because they colluded (and ran) with arguably the most disliked politician in the history of the United States - the end.

 

Back to the regularly scheduled thread, if you like...

 

I am in total agreeance on this part with you August.  Hillary is a monster, and she tried her best to force herself into the position of POTUS, and much to her embarrassment she was shot down.  I'm not in the least bit sorry she failed.  I think that if it were looked into, there was more then one law broken during her run as well.  She is not my candidate, and I do not support her.

 

But the President's actions and inactions in regards to Russia lead me to theorise there is/has been more than a little backroom pay to play going on.  Possibly some compromising information to be blackmailed with? 

 

To what extent we the public still do not know, and while not knowing doesn't convict him, it does not exonerate him either.   I also know its not a unique act to him, or for his chosen party.  But that doesn't make it right, and time will tell if it can be proven illegal. 

 

That's just my personal gut opinion, and I don't claim its worth more than the (my) $.02 that I have invested into it.

 

Sorry for the thread jack, PJ, I'll stop here.


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#10 PJammer24

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 08:04 PM

Trump isn’t bankrupt... He has invested in hundreds of businesses and some of those businesses inevitably went bankrupt.

The narrative promoting Trump as being bankrupt simply isn’t accurate. It’s a manipulation of the facts.

That being said, Trump is a pompous, narcissistic dick who I personally don’t like as the face of this nation. I think that SOME of what he has/hopes to accomplish is beneficial but the way he has gone about it is an embarrassment...

Politics simply aren’t as interesting as the history and mythology of the human race or I would continue...

We were genetically modified by Aliens, who The Sumerians depicted similarly to angels (coincidence?), to mine gold.... Now the politics surrounding the Anunnaki who fought to save our annihilation when they were leaving us a political conversation I’m in favor of!!


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#11 pharmer

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Posted 12 January 2019 - 09:21 PM

I'm not sufficiently educated in History to know the facts but it would be an interesting mission to fix a point in time and examine the worlds' religions at that time.

 

Let's say we fix that time early enough in the history of Homo Sapiens or that other race that faded out about the time Homo Sapiens rose that there were fairly disparate groups of Sapiens located in remote places on the planet and therefore having distinct and separate cultures.

 

Then study the religions at that point in time to see if there is any evidence of shared philosophy or narratives of the beginning of the planet and human kind.

 

From what I gather there isn't much overlap between Hindu and Abrahamic religions. And if the History Channel can be believed much of what the Christian world believes can be traced back well before Christ ever walked this earth and that Christianity is just a hodgepodge tapestry of dozens of precursor religions. In the same way that you can draw a straight line from Christianity to Judaism you can draw a straight line to Judaisms' precursor etc etc etc.



#12 Alder Logs

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 12:58 AM

From what I gather there isn't much overlap between Hindu and Abrahamic religions.

 

Curiously, there are some amazing parallels between Vedic and Psalmic descriptions of a very similar catastrophic event, probably one of worldwide proportion.  Do read Worlds In Collision. 



#13 August West

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 01:00 AM

The narrative promoting Trump as being bankrupt simply isn’t accurate.

If you're talking currently, yes. Trump aint new on the scene though and the man had no love from banks in the 90's.

 

And...the history and mythology of humans is interesting because of politics, not aside from it.



#14 PJammer24

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 01:52 PM

The narrative promoting Trump as being bankrupt simply isn’t accurate.

If you're talking currently, yes. Trump aint new on the scene though and the man had no love from banks in the 90's.

And...the history and mythology of humans is interesting because of politics, not aside from it.

Politics have certainly influenced the course of history in general and in truth, I am better versed in the current state of our government than I insinuated. I enjoy conversing about past events because I find the discussion more tolerable... Discussions involving the current state of affairs tends to be an emotional trigger for a lot of people and often perspective and view are influenced more by those emotions than by rational thought. People get caught up in the narrative being presented by the party or news affiliation of their choice and are not able to see through the spin.

I identify as being moderate. My politically views are solidly in the center. I recognize that there is good and bad on both sides of the aisle and believe that the extremes in both directions are the most frightening potentialities...

It is much easier to discuss historical events than current affairs because the emotion is removed. History has been written with a spin of its own but it is easier, in my opinion, to attempt unraveling that spin to get to a semblance of what was actually going on... The emotion and attachment to a particular ideology make it difficult to approach politics in the present without a heavy bias...

Trump is still a fuck face (excuse my French)... I think he is an embarrassment... He is not a good person, you can’t trust him to keep his word, he stabs his own people (Pence) in the back, and he is not built to be the face of this country...

And if I have to hear 2 more years of him adding unnecessary adverbs and adjectives when he speaks, I may lose my mind!!! He probably definitely could amend his speech to be much more highly concise and have a hugely more greater professional affect... What a joke...


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#15 Alder Logs

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Posted 13 January 2019 - 04:39 PM

I entered into my interest in government more from learning of the criminality being conducted by those who were nominally in service to the country.   You could say I was on the corruption beat for the past 45+ years.   What I learned was that informing, or attempting to inform, elected officials, if not only ineffective, is also was a thankless task.   And the beat goes on, it's worse than ever, and you can bet $21 trillion that I'm right about that. 


Edited by Alder Logs, 13 January 2019 - 04:40 PM.


#16 Juthro

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 03:50 PM

 

The narrative promoting Trump as being bankrupt simply isn’t accurate.

If you're talking currently, yes. Trump aint new on the scene though and the man had no love from banks in the 90's.

 

And...the history and mythology of humans is interesting because of politics, not aside from it.

 

 

I thought this might be fun to toss in here.

[Direct Link]



#17 PJammer24

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 04:02 PM

What a lot of people don't realize is, that even though he is the face of a lot of these ventures, he is nothing more than a paid actor for a lot of it... Sure, he invested in the company, but it is structured in a way that if it fails, he is out very little.... It's the company that failed and went bankrupt, not Donald Trump...

 

Something else interesting is that he is worth far less than what he claims... He is a rich dude, don't get me wrong, but he has over valued many of his real estate holdings... They simply aren't worth what he claims them to be worth when estimating his net worth...  

 

He is a whack job and an embarrassment.... and I hate that he will be a topic of discussion down the road when people are talking about the darkest and most embarrassing eras in US history...






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