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#1 DaveyJonez

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 12:07 PM

My friend is trying to make changa and he has DMT freebase (500mg), B caapi leaf, and B caapi 5x powder ..what would be a good recipe given these materials?



#2 Mushinist

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 02:17 PM

Hello Davey

Your friend will probably find out 2 things, 1. That Caapi leaf is rather harsh to smoke and 2. That 5x infused leaf is rather weak to get proper mao inhibition. You can test this by how many bowls you have to smoke to get the effects of the harmala alks. 2-3 I'm betting, unless they are super sensitive to them.

It would be so much easier to extract the harmalas and then add them at whatever ratio you want. For myself because I make changa frequently, a 1:1:1 ratio works great for me. This is considered harmala heavy, but goes 1g dmt, 1g harmala's, 1g herb (mullein) and it'll blast you to the other side with ease of course.

Some people don't like that much influence from the harmalas so they will make it weaker, like 1g dmt, 1g herb, .3g harmala's. So a 1:1: .3 - it'll still get you there but have less influence from the rue or Caapi alks.
If you don't want to smoke it at all, you could buy some rue seeds and make a tea with it, works just as well and will do the same job!

As for your Caapi powder, I would just mix the powder with the leaf, smoke some to see how strong it is. If you feel effects like ridiculously long tracers and a slight drunk feeling then use it in a 1:1 ratio with the dmt.

Edited by Mushinist, 16 January 2019 - 02:19 PM.

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#3 DaveyJonez

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 03:59 PM

Thank you! do you have any information on how to extract the harmalas?

 

If i were to do it your favorite way for best results what ratios and materials would i use?



#4 Mushinist

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 04:01 PM

I will get you a link, will you be using Caapi vine?
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#5 DaveyJonez

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 04:22 PM

I will get you a link, will you be using Caapi vine?

I guess I want to do it correctly so what would I need for the best results?
I only have caapi powder 5x and caapi leaf

Edited by DaveyJonez, 16 January 2019 - 04:25 PM.


#6 Mushinist

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 04:42 PM

Rue seeds or Caapi vine will give you the best bang for your buck as for alk quantity. Rue is cheap. If you have a ton of leaf you should try to make like a 20x leaf instead of 5x.
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#7 DaveyJonez

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 06:53 PM

I have 50 grams of leaf but no idea how to extract.. Is there something I can buy that's ready to just put in ipa and absorbed in mullein? What would I search in ebay to get ready to mix harmala alks?

#8 coorsmikey

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 09:30 PM

Nice avatar Davey! That was one that my late friend Meyer used for many years. 


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#9 Mushinist

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 09:37 PM

I have 50 grams of leaf but no idea how to extract.. Is there something I can buy that's ready to just put in ipa and absorbed in mullein? What would I search in ebay to get ready to mix harmala alks?


Yes you can order free base alks from eBay. Look at this on eBay
https://rover.ebay.c...tm/132785290277
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#10 DaveyJonez

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 09:57 PM

Awesome!.. Is Syrian rue in anyway inferior to caapi?.. I'm aware that it's missing an alkaloid but is that even a big deal?

#11 Mushinist

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 10:06 PM

From my experience, the small amount of thh in Caapi isn't that big a deal. I always extract from rue just because I'm a cheap ass, it is a pain though.

I assure you, you will get what you need from the Syrian rue.

If its clean you can also take it orally, which lasts much longer.
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#12 DaveyJonez

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 10:44 PM

I really appreciate the help, is there a difference between hcl and FB?

#13 Mushinist

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Posted 16 January 2019 - 11:04 PM

You can't smoke the HCl, you can do either with fb (oral, or smoke).
And you're quite welcome friend just let me know if you need anymore help!
I'll leave you with a pic of HCl xtals I did not too long ago from rue seeds

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  • 2017-09-03 03.12.30.jpg

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#14 SillyCone

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Posted 18 January 2019 - 08:52 PM

IMHE, it's much cheaper to extract from rue than from caapi vine. Rue has much much more harmalas than caapi, from memory it was a ratio like 12 to 1, and rue is also much cheaper. Caapi vine is getting rarer as it's overexploited due to success of ayahuasca ceremonies worldwide and also the jungle is being cut down to feed cattle.

As far as concentrations of harmalas go, for a cup of ayahuasca with caapi we use between 50g and 100g of vine while a cup of ayahuasca with rue we use 3 or 4g of rue seeds !

I still like to use caapi leaves for my changa to have a connexion with caapi which I love dearly (having participated to a bunch of traditional ayahuasca ceremonies) but following Mushinist advice I'll probably experiment with mullein soon.

I've also experimented with other plant material like lapacho (pau d'arco in portuguese) and found the plant material changes the visions deeply.

I've always thought the harshness of my changa was due to the harmalas themselves, but further experiments would be needed to confirm...

 

Of course it's a matter of personal preference but I use a ratio of 4:4:1 DMT:plant material:harmalas myself. (1g DMT, 1g caapi leaves and 250mg harmalas)

The only way to know which ratio you'll prefer is to experiment :)


Edited by SillyCone, 18 January 2019 - 08:58 PM.

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#15 director of sound

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Posted 16 February 2019 - 09:33 AM

get rue seeds for the harmalas... easy as pie, geind the seeds and simmer in vinegar and water for a few minutes, cool then crash them out with a lye solution. it will turn milky then start forming crystals of freebase harmalas that sink to the bottom as a powder. decant or syphon off the liquid then wash the powder 2x with ice cold water and dry. ive got a thread or two somewhere on here about extracting harmalas and using them in changa.

#16 deemesis

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Posted 24 February 2019 - 10:07 PM

Mushinist talked me all the way through his changa recipe and by far it's my favorite way to travel. It's much more mellow than FB with all the visuals and audios except it lasts much longer.

 

[Direct Link]


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#17 Mushinist

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Posted 25 February 2019 - 03:45 AM

I've also experimented with other plant material like lapacho (pau d'arco in portuguese) and found the plant material changes the visions deeply.
I've always thought the harshness of my changa was due to the harmalas themselves, but further experiments would be needed to confirm...

I believe you are correct about this, it does seem each plant adds its own essence to the trip. I will be trying just a bit of Calea Z. (Mexican dream herb) in the next batch and a pinch of Damiana, because I love the smell of it along with the mullein, should be a good mix. And yeah Caapi leaves is harsh to smoke unless you have leather lungs, lol.

Mushinist talked me all the way through his changa recipe and by far it's my favorite way to travel. It's much more mellow than FB with all the visuals and audios except it lasts much longer.

Thanks my friend, I'm glad you enjoy it, and its definitely my favorite method of traveling as well!
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#18 deemesis

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Posted 25 February 2019 - 02:53 PM

I'll never forget...

 

Mushinist: Now go ahead and dump your 3g of deems into the hot ever clear.

 

Me:  :eek:

 

Well, that's how I remember it anyway...


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