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Blue Juice: A new method of extraction using Ice by Paul Stamets


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#21 Stametsistheman

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Posted 28 January 2019 - 01:51 PM

Turning back to the thread title...

Have 110g of gorgeous fresh Z cubes chopped up & sitting with a tray of ice melting slowly in the fridge.

Fantastic, please don't forget to post on this thread with the results!



#22 Soliver

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Posted 28 January 2019 - 04:44 PM

Eh?   I'm clearly out of my league here lol, Pablo?, Pf?,  Price tags, failed kits, copy right property... I have not the faintest idea. I'll have an opinion worthy of somebody's attention once i get a flush from my own cakes lol, 1 heat mat, two fruiting chambers, three different lights, 4 strains, 5 daily fanning/mistings later i haven't fruited much at all.... Is it a silly question to ask why the same method will work for some and not others?  One cake started to pin but then just stopped, it looked dry so i'm thinking i may put a kebab stick in the centre of a cake when i fill the jars, then removing it before dunking so the cake hydrates from the inside out swell as the outside in...   Ideally i'd like everybody here to explain why that is a silly idea... so much conflicting info,   I'm getting lovely white mycelium.

 

I have found out i'm injecting too much culture into each cake, i mistook 1.5ml per cake for 15ml and assumed a full 12ml syringe would do lol, a couple of jars have a yellow spot that is small and doesn't grow.... excess liquid perhaps?   (feel free to make fun, i do love jokes).... 

 

Oh and if Admin is reading, the donation page has been out of action since i joined, just saying...

 

Five daily fannings may be drying out your cakes - yellowing is often stressed mycelium.  2-3x / is generally sufficient.  It's easy to (s)mother the first few batches until you get the rhythm.

 

There's a hundred different ways to do this hobby - I'd suggest finding one TEK and sticking to it the first few times before you get experimental.  Experiments, for me, are for when I have too much stuff to deal with already so I get creative to see what'll happen.

 

But for real, I'd cut down of the Fresh Air Exchange some - that may be an issue for you at his juncture.

 

:)

 

soliver


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#23 Stametsistheman

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Posted 30 January 2019 - 05:03 PM

Ah okay thanks for the input Soliver, if when i fan, i see any dry spots i mist them but i'll cut down to two fans per day. About the yellowing though, many of my up and coming jars have a slight yellow and its always the area thats last to colonise so i think you are right, but what causes the stress i wonder? I found out that the vermiculite i'm using is not the finest grade, could that be it i wonder?  This whole thing is very interesting indeed, i do like the learning process and i fully expect to fail to begin with, i just don't want to have to source them elsewhere again or even worse run out completely. Psilocybin, what a life changer!


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#24 Soliver

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Posted 31 January 2019 - 10:55 PM

Hard to say without pictures ... mycelium produces metabolites that are often referred to as "shroom piss," as it looks like ... piss.

 

That said, there's dozens of weird things that can go wrong - up that by hundreds when you're starting out - no telling what's up there. 

 

I'd suggest starting a thread in the grow forum with pictures.

 

IME, any sort of vermiculite will work, so I doubt that's it.

 

If you leave a cake in the jar too long, yellowing will also happen with age - again, hard to say without pictures.

 

:)

 

soliver



#25 PinkMenace

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 05:05 PM

I have had success misting every time, not just when they seem dry.

And yeah, took me a few times to get right as well. Getting rid of my SGFC helped a ton. I do everything in plastic shoeboxes now, though the last two runs of cakes were setup so I could neglect them in small Tupperware (There's a post on my research and what I attempted) - No fanning or misting. I suggest having non neglect grows under your belt before attempting though.
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#26 cg3p0

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 11:25 PM

Back to the original topic.  Im not sure there is any advantage to extracting the psilocybin in this fashon for our purposes.  Well.... no... the one obvious advantage would be to have a wicked strange blue colored Koolaid to do shots with  :tongue:

 

But really i think its mainly for lab type stuff to keep the psilocybin intact during the extraction.  But as far as ingesting it goes, there should not be any advantage.  As far as im aware, all the the psilocybin gets converted into psilocin in the body anyways.  So with that you actually might be better off drying the mushrooms and then brewing a tea to pre-convert alot of the psilocybin into psilocin so your body doesnt have to.  It makes me wonder if a hot brewed tea would hit you faster than the cold blue tea since more of it is preconverted.  

 

And for those wondering how to do the extraction, you would simply cover fresh mushrooms with ice and put it in the fridge (~34F) to let it slowly melt over a few days


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#27 Soliver

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 11:38 PM

Mushroom ingestion teks should always be circumspect, as the ones that "work" generally leave the consumer bereft of shim senses.

 

Dry, capsules, tea, honey, extraction (ethanol), chocolates . . .

 

Everyone has their favorite.  Fads come and go as well. 

 

Bottom line?  INGEST THE FUCKING MUSHROOMS.

 

Some weekends say "extract" to me, while others say "tea" or "eat these dry ones with peanut butter."

 

"Eat these freshies with Blue Cheese Dressing and chase 'em with shots of Stoli."

 

I wish my life and times were segregated enough to plan a mushroom trip three days in advance, but if I tried, this, all I'd have is a glass of water with some soggy shrooms sitting in the bottom a few weeks later.

 

Oh, to be Pablo!

 

:)

 

soliver


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#28 PinkMenace

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 12:38 AM

Yeah. Also, ritual is important. It's fun and it adds meaning to what you're doing, even if the levels of psilocybin and psilocin are not measurably different.

The investment and consequence in this case is also not very high so it's totally okay to fuck around with in ways where someone would be hurt by a similar attitude with growing. As long as you don't call it science, I don't get my panties in a twist.
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#29 cg3p0

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 03:01 PM

Paul Stamets just released a new product. 
 

bluekoolaid2.jpg


Edited by cg3p0, 04 February 2019 - 03:07 PM.

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#30 aqudoc

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Posted 04 February 2019 - 04:00 PM

I got (back) into magics and now growing after reading a portion of Michael Pollan's new book How To Change Your Mind.  There's an excerpt in there in which Michael tracks down Paul up in WA, they go to some mystery state park here in the PNW, (Pollan even teases 3 locations I think) to hunt azures, (found) they have couple beers etc. and I think I remember when describing his initial stay w/ Paul the term 'insufferable' came up a time or two   :wink:



#31 cg3p0

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 02:30 PM

After further thought on this, i think there may be one very good possible benefit from doing this extraction method.  Many report that fresh mushrooms give a better quality to the trip experience(at least from all the reports ive seen).  I would speculate that this is because all the chemicals are still intact without any degredation from the drying process.  From what ive read, the main unstable chemical that degrades the most is psilocin due to oxidation.  So while fresh consumption is prefered, drying becomes nessessary mainly for storage purposes while accepting the loss of quality that comes with it.  This extraction method should significantly reduce the oxidation thereby keeping all the chemicals almost just as good as fresh mushrooms.  Mushoom species with high psilocybin and low psilocin contents might not benifit much from this extraction, however species with higher amounts of psilocin might benifit much more from using this extraction tek.  I have heard many anacdotal reports of panaeolus species losing potency from drying them and that would make sense due to thier higher psilocin content.  

 

So.... Could it be that this extraction method would allow you to effectivly eat fresh mushrooms all the time while still being in a form that is easy to store?  All you would have to do to store the blue juice is pour it into ice cube trays and freeze it.  For dosing you would simply weight your wet mushrooms and measure your water volume used to make the ice.  Calculate the mushroom dry weight equivalent and divide by the mL of water     =mushroom grams per mL.  Suck up your blue juice into a big syringe and fill your ice trays by mL graduations on the syringe to get accurate dosings per icecube.  Then just keep them in the freezer until you want to use them.

 

Certianly requires more work than just throwing them in a dehydrator, but maybe worth it to some, especially for some particular mushroom species possibly.

 

@OldBear

It has been a few days now, do you have anything to report from the blue juice extraction you were working on?



#32 sandman

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 05:45 PM

Anyone actually tried this yet?



#33 WalkingCatfish

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 07:02 PM

Anyone actually tried this yet?

Well, I made some, just to try the process out. That juice is blue, alright. :biggrin:  I'll make another batch, but this time I'll weigh the wet mushrooms first, so I have some idea of the potency.  I'll do a better job of filtering, too...this was just given a quick pass through a tea strainer.

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#34 cg3p0

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 07:41 PM

Hey good job Catfish!  You can probably still figure out how much mushrooms you used by putting the strained shrooms in the dehydrator and weighing them once dry, should be pretty close to the actual dry weight.  Some of the technical details im wondering about is can one ice melt fully extract everything or should they be iced and strained a few times to get all the goodies out?    


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#35 WalkingCatfish

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 07:52 PM

Hey good job Catfish!  You can probably still figure out how much mushrooms you used by putting the strained shrooms in the dehydrator and weighing them once dry, should be pretty close to the actual dry weight. 

 

Why didn't I think of that? :D

 

I was pretty lazy about the extraction...just testing out the method, not expecting much. I put a bunch of coarsely chopped side pins and aborts in a jar with some ice cubes, and just left them in my shop fridge to melt. The temp of my fridge is set pretty low, so it took a couple of days for the ice to disappear.  Then, I topped it up with a bit of cold water, and left it for another day. 



#36 cg3p0

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 09:23 PM

Well you got more to show than anyone else so far.  That stuff does look cool.  Im wondering, does the blue stratify out and settle down at the bottom of the water if left to sit for a few hours or does it stay in solution?  Im thinking if it settles you could further concentrate it if desired by sucking off the water on top.



#37 WalkingCatfish

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 09:33 PM

I'll see if it stratifies, overnight.

 

I think I'll test a bit of it out, tomorrow...a small dose, since I was negligent about weighing material!


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#38 cg3p0

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 09:44 PM

 

I think I'll test a bit of it out, tomorrow...a small dose, since I was negligent about weighing material!

 

 

Yes I concur, a clinical trial, for science, purely academic.  :tongue:  


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#39 WalkingCatfish

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 02:56 PM

OK, I had some errands to run, so I took just enough to determine that the fluid is active, and worth playing around with some more. I'll wait a couple of days and do a more serious dose.  It certainly goes down easy...in a shotglass of lemonade, you'd barely notice it. 


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#40 Cuboid

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Posted 06 February 2019 - 04:05 PM

"But really i think its mainly for lab type stuff to keep the psilocybin intact during the extraction." - I thought the blue was degraded psilocin?

E.G. Psilocin is relatively unstable in solution due to its phenolic hydroxy (-OH) group. In the presence of oxygen it readily forms bluish and dark black degradation products[citation needed]. Similar products are also formed under acidic conditions in the presence of oxygen and Fe3+ ions (Keller's reagent).

(From Wikipedia article https://en.m.wikiped.../wiki/Psilocin)

I also see that lacks a citation so perhaps the jury is still out on what the bluing actually is.

What types of extraction damage psilocybin? Alcohol is only very slightly on the alkali side of being neutral pH so shouldn't dephosphorylate the Psilocybin.

Edited by Cuboid, 06 February 2019 - 04:09 PM.

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