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Seeking advice re. extreme nausea


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#1 DonShadow

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 03:06 AM

Recently I stood by for a friend of mine while he consumed 6g of Ps. cubensis brewed in tea and filtered. He was tolerating the mushroom very well until about the three hour mark when he was very suddenly struck with horrendous nausea, causing him to vomit and defecate violently for about 2.5 hours straight. Obviously this was an extremely unpleasant experience for him.

He is 67 years old, in reasonably good health, and very experienced with psychedelics, having used DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, LSD, cannabis, ketamine and mushrooms before. He claimed that his previous mushroom trip with 6g cubensis (tea, filtered) didn't result in nausea, but before that a 5g trip using dried cubensis (not tea) resulted in a similarly dramatic purgative experience. He also reported similar nausea from consuming 1g dried mushroom in capsule form.

I've never heard of someone encountering nausea like this from mushrooms. I've seen people vomit and find relief shortly thereafter, but this was far beyond what I would consider a healthy "purge". The poor fellow was in absolute agony. It seemed that it may have been indicative of an undetected health problem. His diet could definitely use improvement, but he is a strong and vital man for his age.

I wondered if it might be possible that Psilocybin could interfere with the vagus nerve, which I believe to be a serotonin receptor site. In the meantime I recommended he try improving his gut bacteria with fermented foods, and try ingesting 1g after a month to test the waters.

By about the 7hr mark he managed to get some fluids down and caught some sleep. The next day he was right as rain, and in high spirits. He claimed to feel "humbled", but did not feel the love he felt he needed. I told him that the mushroom may have been pointing to a neglected health issue or dietary issue, which he was not eager to accept. Obviously he is in no rush to repeat the experience!

Has anyone experienced prolonged intense nausea/vomiting/diarrhea like this? Any insights would be welcome and greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Edited by DonShadow, 24 January 2019 - 03:08 AM.

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#2 Coopdog

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 05:29 AM

I went through a few years of Chronic vomitting syndrome. It like to killed me man, and I lost a hundred pounds. If this was a result of mushrooms, maybe they were tainted by some sort of mold or mildew that brought that on. For me it was too much beef and pork, as I was a carnivore and meat eater deep down in my soul. I had to move away from the beef and pork and only eat them a couple of times a week to get better. To this day if I eat big hunks of meat, like roast or too much steak, I get into a bad way until I get rid of it. I don't digest them well and my gut instinct (no pun intended) is that they set in my guts until they go bad and then I have to deal with the excess poisons in my system. 

 

I sure hope this was not the case with your friend, because I sure as hell hated to give up my meat, which I loved and suffered for a year for despite discovering what it was I needed to change. I hope your friend doesn't have to deal with that man.


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#3 OldBear

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 08:09 AM

Guessing that your friend has an intermittent sensitivity to something that is triggering the purgative reaction.

Assuming he is willing to get back on that horse maybe try somthing like coorsmikey’s ethanol extraction to avoid the unique “body load” reaction he is experiencing.

OB
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#4 pharmer

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 10:09 AM

two things stand out

 

first - The long time from ingestion to discomfort.   That may be a function of age. I'm about the same as your friend and have lately noticed that the guts just don't work as quickly as they used to. What used to take 30 minutes may well take three hours now. So I'm not too surprised at the timing. But why the discomfort this time and only one other?

 

second - As said above, the mushrooms are  suspect. Maybe a bacteria or fungus or some such was living on them and mucked the friend up.

 

my diet is horrendous most of the time but I've never had one of these ugly incidents - at least not with shrooms

 

if one is going to do Caapi he'd better have his body cleaned out for a couple days or really unpleasant things happen


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#5 Oneyedraven

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 06:09 PM

I cannot offer any help with the cause, however I routinely Micro Dose and have added dried ginger to the capsules which has to this point prevented any stomach discomfort, this last weekend I finally was successful with a 6 gm dose with very little stomach discomfort,( trip report to follow)  I drank a cup of honey ginger tea just prior to consuming the mushroom "tea" .  Whatever ginger does, it has been used for many years to prevent nausea motion, morning and otherwise (we even give our dogs ginger snaps prior to a car ride) .  If he's inclined to climb  back up on the horse I'd give the ginger trick a try 


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#6 DonShadow

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 06:29 PM

Thanks very much for all of your thoughtful insights and suggestions folks.

I can rule out contamination on the mushrooms themselves, as I'm very meticulous about drying and storage, and these came from a jar that I've helped myself to several times. His previous battles with nausea make be think his diet is in need of improvement. I came across this study on the relationship between the function of the Vagus Nerve and the gut microbiome. It seems the proper function of the VN depends on healthy gut bacteria: https://www.ncbi.nlm...les/PMC5808284/

 

I'm going to look into an alcohol extraction for him and and I'll also encourage him to eat some ginger the next time he works up the courage to try again. He's pretty determined to find something that works for him, so I suspect he'll brave the mushroom again sooner or later.



#7 DonShadow

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 06:38 PM

if one is going to do Caapi he'd better have his body cleaned out for a couple days or really unpleasant things happen

 

Thanks for bringing this up Pharmer! My friend is actually scheduled to attend an ayahuasca retreat in a few weeks, so I suspect he may be in for serious trouble if you say B. Caapi has potential to be a powerful emetic.



#8 pharmer

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Posted 24 January 2019 - 10:40 PM

caapi has little sympathy for systems full of toxins

 

I highly recommend Gramps get himself on a fruit and vegetable diet for a couple or few days before dosing and wean away from meat in the meantime. no drinking alcohol and sugary shit for a few days beforehand and a couple activated charcoal tablets a day in that last week will do wonders.

 

all of that ^^^^^^^^^ assumes my assumptions about his diet are correct

 

he'll thank me later


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#9 DonShadow

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Posted 25 January 2019 - 01:49 AM

That's great advice, thank you. It's difficult to explain to a 67-year old man that "love" can actually come in the form of furious diarrhea. It seemed clear to me that the symptoms were indicative of poor diet, and indeed he is not the most wholesome eater. It may take him a few more bouts of all-night purging to change his habits, though I truly hope not, poor guy. I'll relay this information to him, thanks again Pharmer!

#10 OldBear

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Posted 25 January 2019 - 08:12 AM

a little mushie whispered in my ear yesterday
that sometimes the medicine is unpleasant
if that’s what it takes to cure the illness

pharmer’s got the right vibe
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#11 DonShadow

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Posted 25 January 2019 - 08:44 AM

Agreed. I believe the ailment is primarily a symptom of loneliness. He's a good man and he needed a friend, which is a niche I am more than happy to fill.
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#12 LegoMyego

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 10:22 AM

I have also suffered with extreme nausea and vomiting while taking shrooms.  Usually it only happens when I consume the bodies however.  What really helped me is advice given to me by jkdeth and other online sources.  Powder the shrooms and bring two cups of water to a boil.  Then put it on simmer and add the shrooms.  Stir for 30 minutes then strain out the bodies (make sure to squeeze all the juice out of the mush).  Jasmine tea with honey, a little lemon juice, and ginger.  

 

Additionally, it helped to have an empty stomach.  No food for at least 6 hours beforehand but drink a lot of water to ensure hydration.  I also usually take two 1200mg activated charcoal pills the night before.  During the 30 minutes it takes to brew the tea, put some Alka-Seltzer tablets in sprite/ginger ale and drink.  FInally, immediately after drinking the tea I take Ondansetron (anti-nasuea meds I got from a doc) and make a second Alka-Selzer drink.  

 

I only got nauseous for the first 30 minutes and then I was completely fine. No nausea at all. A little weed before and after the tea usually helps as well.  This is all totally anecdotal, but I used to vomit every time and these steps really helped get it under control.  Good luck!!



#13 PJammer24

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 10:29 AM

Maybe He just got sick and happened to be on mushrooms when it hit him...

 

Maybe in his psychedelically warped mind, he convinced himself he was sick and the body followed suit...

 

Maybe he was banging a mix of ipecac and laxative in the bathroom... People are into crazy shit these days!!! 



#14 mushit

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Posted 14 March 2019 - 12:20 PM

I was going to say something along those lines, PJ.

It could be he was not willing to let go with such a high dose and his mind was telling his body to purge.

I once threw up on cannabis a couple hours after toking.

The anxiety was too much and my mind said,"OK.  Everybody out!"






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