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Oven inoculation (Debunked)


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#21 coorsmikey

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 01:31 AM

Wow, I can totally picture some neophyte spraying a bunch of Lysol in the oven then turning it on to realize the hard way that it was a Gas range, of course after they put the fire on their eyebrows out.


While there is humor in that, it is a possibility and this should be avoided, perioid. I would hate to read about someone burning their face off and burning down their home because bad info is still circulating. I mean, hold balls batman! Kits are crazy anyway. Especially when ingredients are so readily available. I know how bad it was when I blew up my glovebox.
There was some sarcasm but I did not include a LOL in my statement. It was genuinely meant to point out what I thought was the worst advice in those instructions. Possibly show the lack of credibility of the “Most Recommended” of the instructions. I don’t think you were saying that it’s was me making a laughing matter though, from yes a very bad idea of spraying flammables into a small combustion chamber without a warning to air it out.

Edited by coorsmikey, 01 February 2019 - 01:33 AM.

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#22 onediadem

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Posted 01 February 2019 - 01:56 AM

Definitely not saying anything negative about you hon. As you know, common sense is in short supply today lol, and I just wanted to reiterate what a dumb idea this is.


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#23 peacefrog

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 07:42 AM

There are all kinds of good and bad information out there.

As said in this thread, a GB or SAB is really all that’s needed for a cultivator only looking to do research and/or grow a few crops for personal use.

IMO, sterile technique is the most important knowledge to acquire. I have used such a crappy SAB design for many years and I do all my sterile work in there with very acceptable contamination results.

Once one learns the movements, they become easy and muscle memory takes over. It becomes routine.

Also, it is always a good idea to rehearse the movements, either in your head or in real time without opening a jar, bag or dish. But once you do a few hundred transfers/ inoculations, it just comes naturally. Less thought is put into it.

Just my 2 cents. And I wish you good vibes!
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#24 Turtlegirl

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 09:19 AM

 

What sort of spore supply did you get? (syringe?, print?).

 

What are you inoculating? Grain jars? Grain bags?PF tech jars? Do you you have injection ports of some sort on your lids?

 

There are a lot of variables.

 

For ex, if you are doing PF tech with fresh jars with some sort of lid injection port and you are very confident with your sterilization techniques for prepping your jars then I'm pretty confident that:

  • You can do this quickly in a fair 'clean' part of the house without SAB with attention sterile technique (alcohol your inj ports, use a new needle, don't touch the needle.
  • You don't have to alcohol or flame the needle between injections. There is no reason with sterilely prepped inj ports, sterile tech and sterile jars that you are exposing your needle to contaminants.

 

Now . . .  as you compromise in some areas, this idea may not apply.

  • No inj ports -  you have to open your jars.
  • You are really slow at doing the process.
  • Your jars were sterilized a month ago and might have contaminants or you aren't too sure about your jar sterilizer.
  • The needle touches something in between injections

 

My kit came with sterilized jars with 4 holes drilled into the lids.  I may have been overly paranoid with my method.  I did use the oven method.  (Wish I would have found this website first)  I used disinfecting wipes on everything within 5 feet of the oven.  I sprayed Lysol everywhere in the kitchen.  I wiped the needle with alcohol after each injection and flamed my needle between each jar.  I was really starting to think none of it worked because I saw absolutely no growth after 7 days.  Then at day 11 I went to gather my jars and I had some growth.  I will freely admit I've been impatient to a degree.  I know this process takes a while.  I'm just so excited to be trying this myself it's hard to have patience. lol  Thanks for your wisdom.  You have no idea how much I appreciate the advice and help.  BTW  I got the syringe.


Edited by Turtlegirl, 02 February 2019 - 09:32 AM.


#25 Turtlegirl

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 09:24 AM

 

 

Wow, I can totally picture some neophyte spraying a bunch of Lysol in the oven then turning it on to realize the hard way that it was a Gas range, of course after they put the fire on their eyebrows out.


While there is humor in that, it is a possibility and this should be avoided, perioid. I would hate to read about someone burning their face off and burning down their home because bad info is still circulating. I mean, hold balls batman! Kits are crazy anyway. Especially when ingredients are so readily available. I know how bad it was when I blew up my glovebox.
There was some sarcasm but I did not include a LOL in my statement. It was genuinely meant to point out what I thought was the worst advice in those instructions. Possibly show the lack of credibility of the “Most Recommended” of the instructions. I don’t think you were saying that it’s was me making a laughing matter though, from yes a very bad idea of spraying flammables into a small combustion chamber without a warning to air it out

Thankfully I am wise enough not to spray Lysol in the oven.  I just sprayed it around.  I waited 5 minutes to let it dissipate before I turned the oven on.  I'm sure you are right about some people not being the brightest.  Right now, I feel like one of them. lol



#26 Turtlegirl

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 09:27 AM

You should do your inoculations in a still air box. Just take a big clear tote/rubbermaid and cut 2 arm holes in it and turn it upside down on a table. Dont attach gloves to it. That's really all you need. Put your stuff on the table, put the tote upside down over it, wait 5 minutes for the air to settle and stick your arms through SLOWLY and work SLOWLY. Don't spray the inside with alcohol. Dont use a flame inside the box, flame needles etc outside the box and slowly pass arms back through with tool in hand. Make sure no airflow/fans going in the room when you are working in your Still Air Box.

I've now made a still air box so that if my current grow fails, I can do it right next time.


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#27 Turtlegirl

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 09:31 AM

 

What sort of spore supply did you get? (syringe?, print?).

 

What are you inoculating? Grain jars? Grain bags?PF tech jars? Do you you have injection ports of some sort on your lids?

 

There are a lot of variables.

 

For ex, if you are doing PF tech with fresh jars with some sort of lid injection port and you are very confident with your sterilization techniques for prepping your jars then I'm pretty confident that:

  • You can do this quickly in a fair 'clean' part of the house without SAB with attention sterile technique (alcohol your inj ports, use a new needle, don't touch the needle.
  • You don't have to alcohol or flame the needle between injections. There is no reason with sterilely prepped inj ports, sterile tech and sterile jars that you are exposing your needle to contaminants.

 

Now . . .  as you compromise in some areas, this idea may not apply.

  • No inj ports -  you have to open your jars.
  • You are really slow at doing the process.
  • Your jars were sterilized a month ago and might have contaminants or you aren't too sure about your jar sterilizer.
  • The needle touches something in between injections

 


Edited by Turtlegirl, 02 February 2019 - 09:33 AM.


#28 Turtlegirl

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 09:34 AM

 

 

Wow, I can totally picture some neophyte spraying a bunch of Lysol in the oven then turning it on to realize the hard way that it was a Gas range, of course after they put the fire on their eyebrows out.


While there is humor in that, it is a possibility and this should be avoided, perioid. I would hate to read about someone burning their face off and burning down their home because bad info is still circulating. I mean, hold balls batman! Kits are crazy anyway. Especially when ingredients are so readily available. I know how bad it was when I blew up my glovebox.
There was some sarcasm but I did not include a LOL in my statement. It was genuinely meant to point out what I thought was the worst advice in those instructions. Possibly show the lack of credibility of the “Most Recommended” of the instructions. I don’t think you were saying that it’s was me making a laughing matter though, from yes a very bad idea of spraying flammables into a small combustion chamber without a warning to air it out.

 

No worries.



#29 Turtlegirl

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 09:36 AM

There are all kinds of good and bad information out there.

As said in this thread, a GB or SAB is really all that’s needed for a cultivator only looking to do research and/or grow a few crops for personal use.

IMO, sterile technique is the most important knowledge to acquire. I have used such a crappy SAB design for many years and I do all my sterile work in there with very acceptable contamination results.

Once one learns the movements, they become easy and muscle memory takes over. It becomes routine.

Also, it is always a good idea to rehearse the movements, either in your head or in real time without opening a jar, bag or dish. But once you do a few hundred transfers/ inoculations, it just comes naturally. Less thought is put into it.

Just my 2 cents. And I wish you good vibes!

Since first posting I have made a SAB.  I have been reading about contamination.  What kind of contamination and how will I know?


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#30 Turtlegirl

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 09:39 AM

Definitely not saying anything negative about you hon. As you know, common sense is in short supply today lol, and I just wanted to reiterate what a dumb idea this is.

No worries.  I really wish I would have found this site first.



#31 Turtlegirl

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 09:41 AM

Using a GB or SAB is best, but I am super lazy and hate being restricted.

I cut one of those really squishy sponges to the length of the needle, dip it in alcohal, and use it as a cover for the needle.

Every time you press the needle into something the sponge should compress then decompress, sterilizing the needle in 1 smooth motion.

Please perfect your sterile techniques, though. You wont get by in this hobby without it.

I love this idea.  I will have to remember it.



#32 Turtlegirl

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 09:47 AM

I would probably be able to guess the company you used for the kit, as my first kit also suggested the "oven method" as one of 3 methods to use during inoculation. While I quickly learned through mycotopia that this method is not trustworthy, the supplies (and their guides) I received worked very well and they had good customer service and shipping times. I had a pretty solid first grow with their kit.

That being said, once you tackle your first grow and have had more time to research the craft, you will be able to source your own supplies and apply the knowledge on the forums to your next grow. It's a bit cheaper that way, too!

Best of luck with your journey!

If all goes well, I may get one more batch of jars from them and then start doing more from scratch using the jars and lids I have purchased from them.  I know where to get the supplies now and how to sterilize my jars.  I even have my eye on the pressure cooker I want.  I can't tell you how excited I am to start this journey.  Hopefully everything goes well.


Edited by Turtlegirl, 02 February 2019 - 09:57 AM.

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#33 Turtlegirl

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 09:53 AM

 

Lets just say it this is the guide that everyone is talking about;

www.midwestgrowkits.com/pdf/mushroomgrowguide-mgk12.pdf

They are recommended on a vendors website(ends in ..sters), and they give this guide out with their kits.

That's the one... lol

 

Yep that's it.  They also have videos.



#34 peacefrog

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 10:36 AM

Contamination could be many different things and can come in many different colors and patterns. Bacteria, molds, yeasts, etc.

Any growth that is not the mycelium you are trying to grow should be considered contaminated. It is just practice and making mistakes to learn. Once you have grown a few crops, and a bunch of contamination, you will be able to tell normal healthy mycelium from contaminates (at least most of the time). Contamination is term we use for competitors of the food we give our fungi. Anything other than the mycelium from what ever species you are growing is contamination, it a broad term really.

Contamination is part of the process. We ALL face it from time to time it’s just inevitable. The same food out beloved fungi loves is also loved by many other species. Don’t ever trust a source that claims they have 0% contamination. They are either lying or just got lucky on a few grows. It will happen sometimes no matter how clean you are or how perfect your sterile technique is.

All on here know I love to share pics so I will share a few to hopefully help you:

Healthy Psilocybe cubensis mycelium on agar:
D2209545-DB30-4FBA-8201-E0DF72E02F79.jpeg 276308D7-707F-4622-A0DD-0A74E2BCB8D9.jpeg


Heathy Copelandia cyanescens mycelium on agar:
489B2466-94B2-46DA-906F-AD8D6F7464AB.jpeg 61554590-5D64-4993-A152-BC7D05619446.jpeg

Contaminated agar plates with healthy mycelium growing along side it:
13F34D56-6270-4F65-ABDF-0266DFEBF365.jpeg 54636F29-9B3D-4A32-88EF-BBCEDC28E2DF.jpeg

Can you see the difference?

It’s just takes seeing it for yourself a few times and knowing what type of mycelium you are trying to grow, and you will easily be able to see contamination verses healthy growth.

Again good vibes and you are at the right place for learning and sharing.

Edit: sorry about the arrows in the pics. I forgot they were in there. I put them there for other posts and just didn’t remember to take them out before I posted this.

Edited by peacefrog, 02 February 2019 - 11:17 AM.

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#35 onediadem

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 11:20 AM

Turtlegirl, none of my comments were directed at you. They were made with a disdain for your vendor. You were given some pretty crappy info, and I am glad you found us to help you out. Never fear, you are eager, intelligent, and will be a pro in no time! I am glad you made a sab. That is 90% of the battle won.


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#36 Soliver

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Posted 02 February 2019 - 11:53 PM

I do my innoculations in a small closet misted with bleach water.

 

That said, I've done hundreds of innoculations in kitchens, bathrooms, etc.  The important part is to make sure there's as little air moving around as possible.

 

The Oven Method?

 

Geez - that's the mycological equivalent of pulling out before orgasm as a parenting avoidance strategy ....

 

Innoculating in a SAB is certainly better than what I generally do, but they're a pain in the ass, and for PF cakes, probably a bit much IMO.

 

Be in an air-still room, keep the foil on the jars until you need to innoculate, flame your needle regularly, relax.

 

My guess is that more contaminants occur due to unfortunate spore syringes and poorly prepped jars than anything else, but that's just a guess. 

 

SABs are kinda cool and make you feel like a myco-ninja, but are not a necessary implement (like a PC) in my experience.  Can't hurt, but I'm too tall and my hands are too big.  I'd rather run the numbers and do more jars.

 

Hope it all works out for ya!

 

:)

 

soliver


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#37 Deleena24

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 02:02 AM

I think one of the biggest causes of contams while innoculating is from our breath. It stirs the air around and contains who knows what.

I know it's silly, but if I'm not wearing a mask I hold my breath while the needle is exposed lol.
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#38 sandman

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 07:52 AM

Misting bleach water into the air is really really bad for your lungs and eyes though, that is a bad idea for your health and totally unnecessary.


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#39 Turtlegirl

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 11:57 AM

Contamination could be many different things and can come in many different colors and patterns. Bacteria, molds, yeasts, etc.

Any growth that is not the mycelium you are trying to grow should be considered contaminated. It is just practice and making mistakes to learn. Once you have grown a few crops, and a bunch of contamination, you will be able to tell normal healthy mycelium from contaminates (at least most of the time). Contamination is term we use for competitors of the food we give our fungi. Anything other than the mycelium from what ever species you are growing is contamination, it a broad term really.

Contamination is part of the process. We ALL face it from time to time it’s just inevitable. The same food out beloved fungi loves is also loved by many other species. Don’t ever trust a source that claims they have 0% contamination. They are either lying or just got lucky on a few grows. It will happen sometimes no matter how clean you are or how perfect your sterile technique is.

All on here know I love to share pics so I will share a few to hopefully help you:

Healthy Psilocybe cubensis mycelium on agar:
attachicon.gifD2209545-DB30-4FBA-8201-E0DF72E02F79.jpegattachicon.gif276308D7-707F-4622-A0DD-0A74E2BCB8D9.jpeg


Heathy Copelandia cyanescens mycelium on agar:
attachicon.gif489B2466-94B2-46DA-906F-AD8D6F7464AB.jpegattachicon.gif61554590-5D64-4993-A152-BC7D05619446.jpeg

Contaminated agar plates with healthy mycelium growing along side it:
attachicon.gif13F34D56-6270-4F65-ABDF-0266DFEBF365.jpegattachicon.gif54636F29-9B3D-4A32-88EF-BBCEDC28E2DF.jpeg

Can you see the difference?

It’s just takes seeing it for yourself a few times and knowing what type of mycelium you are trying to grow, and you will easily be able to see contamination verses healthy growth.

Again good vibes and you are at the right place for learning and sharing.

Edit: sorry about the arrows in the pics. I forgot they were in there. I put them there for other posts and just didn’t remember to take them out before I posted this.

Oh gosh yes.  That helps a ton.  I was starting to get a little paranoid when reading about "contamination".  I was starting to think, "I'm going to die". roflmao  Thanks for all your help and no worries about the arrows.  They were actually helpful. 


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#40 Turtlegirl

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Posted 03 February 2019 - 12:03 PM

I do my innoculations in a small closet misted with bleach water.

 

That said, I've done hundreds of innoculations in kitchens, bathrooms, etc.  The important part is to make sure there's as little air moving around as possible.

 

The Oven Method?

 

Geez - that's the mycological equivalent of pulling out before orgasm as a parenting avoidance strategy ....

 

Innoculating in a SAB is certainly better than what I generally do, but they're a pain in the ass, and for PF cakes, probably a bit much IMO.

 

Be in an air-still room, keep the foil on the jars until you need to innoculate, flame your needle regularly, relax.

 

My guess is that more contaminants occur due to unfortunate spore syringes and poorly prepped jars than anything else, but that's just a guess. 

 

SABs are kinda cool and make you feel like a myco-ninja, but are not a necessary implement (like a PC) in my experience.  Can't hurt, but I'm too tall and my hands are too big.  I'd rather run the numbers and do more jars.

 

Hope it all works out for ya!

 

:)

 

soliver

Myco-ninja.... roflmao.  Thanks for the advice.  I'm not sure I could fit into any of my closets so I will probably have to go with the S.A.B.  Either that or the bathroom misted with bleach water.






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