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Psilocybe Tampanensis vs Psilocybe Mexicana (grow and effects)


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#1 deepblueseawhale

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 05:20 AM

Just wondering if any of you had the chance to grow both of these species? If you did, would you mind sharing how they differ in growing technique? And if you had the chance to eat the fruits (not truffles) how would you compare they differ in effects?

 

Thank you!



#2 MysticalMyco

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 05:31 AM

I haven't grown p.mexicana but I love eating them. They are light, funny, very mildly visual go to a music festival and rage type of Mushroom. Also fun to play video games, watch a movie, & create shit on.

They are one of my favorite shrooms and they look cool too.

#3 Deleena24

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 10:50 AM

Technically P. Tampanensis is a Mexicana. So is Atl#7, Jalisco, Chicon Nindo, etc.

So far P. Atlantis is the only true stone producer that is still considered a seperate species, but good luck finding it.

I've grown Tampanensis, Jalisco and Atl#7 all in the same FC, so IME you don't have to treat them differently.

I haven't had a chance to dose heavy, but compared to cubes they feel lighter and more colorful. No sedation like you get with cubes sometimes.

17g fresh Tampanensis got me to a strong lvl3 trip, maybe even 4. During the peak I was getting these waves of pleasure running from the top of my head down to my toes, almost an orgasm feeling LMAO. I'll never forget it.
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#4 deepblueseawhale

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 01:06 PM

Thanks guys, I really appreciate your comments!

 

Did you find any qualitative difference between Jalisco and Tampanensis themselves?

 

I personally never had the chance to experience or see P.Atlantis, but I just accidentally found a thread on Shroomery today, which is arguing that DNA tests show Tampanensis and Atlantis could be the same specie.

 

That said, I'm still struggling to grow Jalisco for the first time as I want something different than the cubes as they have become too dark for me. If my Jalisco fails, I'll go for P. Tampanensis as I'm out of Jalisco spores and they're next to impossible to find here in Europe. Hopefully they don't differ that much in effects.


Edited by deepblueseawhale, 05 February 2019 - 01:14 PM.


#5 jkdeth

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 02:09 PM

Well that's interesting. First I've heard of it. Alan Rockefeller is DNA sequencing and has found tampenensis and atlantis to be the same, but different from mexicana.

#6 Deleena24

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 02:24 PM

Well that's interesting. First I've heard of it. Alan Rockefeller is DNA sequencing and has found tampenensis and atlantis to be the same, but different from mexicana.


Theres a lot of conflicting info. I believe Workman changes his identification several times since this post.

https://mycotopia.ne...ocybe-atlantis/

I will try to find the more recent ones that explain Tampanensis. I've done so much reading it's hard to remember what threads are which.

Edited by Deleena24, 05 February 2019 - 02:27 PM.


#7 jkdeth

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 02:37 PM

Alan's sequencing is from 2018. That's the latest I've seen.
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#8 Deleena24

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 02:47 PM

Alan's sequencing is from 2018. That's the latest I've seen.


Can you post plz? I'd love to read and I cant find it. I'm trying to find Workmans recent stuff, too.

I know several of the bigger sites list the strain as P. Mexicana var Tampanensis.

This Section of fungi seems to be constantly changing classifications, especially in recent years. Maybe I missed one of the updates by Alan.

Like I said theres conflicting info from trusted people, and that info has changed over time.

#9 Deleena24

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 03:01 PM

https://mycotopia.ne...he-netherlands/

This is from 2018, and while I'd doesnt show the DNA results it mentions the results as Tampanensis and Galindoi as both P. Mexicana variants.

I'm not saying you're wrong, at all. Or even that I am right, I just wanted to show that there really is new, conflicting info everywhere. He even states he got the info from Alan. Weird, right?

What I KNOW, from experience, is that they'll grow in the same conditions. I think that's what the OP wanted to know.

Edited by Deleena24, 05 February 2019 - 03:03 PM.


#10 jkdeth

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 03:19 PM

Its on the site who will not named.

Before reading that my interpretation was that they were varieties of mexicana, except true atlantis. His latest sequencing shows tampensis and atlantis are the same, but different from the other mexicanas.
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#11 Deleena24

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 05:01 PM

So they were all considered P. Mexicana until a few months ago... And now Tampanesis aka Atlantis isn't...

It's good we/you/he brought this up so the community has up to date info.

#12 DreamingRaven

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 05:41 PM

I'll say first that of the two I prefer stones from the Tampanesis , however, the best fruits were from Chicon Nindo, a definite Mexicanae. Both were fun, very bright and light-hearted .  The stones from the Chicon Nindo were tiny, like little pebbles, but they seemed more potent, and slightly darker.

 

Since I have grown  ATL#7,  Atlantis and Tampanesis I'd have to say that the Atlantis and Tampanesis "looked" identical when I grew them. The ATL#7 and the Chicon Nindo were each a little different. It was obvious when looking at them side by side in the FC.



#13 WalkingCatfish

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 06:15 PM

So they were all considered P. Mexicana until a few months ago... And now Tampanesis aka Atlantis isn't...

It's good we/you/he brought this up so the community has up to date info.

For fun, I had a look at the sequences on file at GenBank, and BLASTed them, to generate a few quick and dirty trees.  Selecting a few representative sequences in section Mexicanae, and a couple of outgroups we get something like the following:

 

Tampanensis in BLAST.JPG


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#14 Deleena24

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Posted 05 February 2019 - 07:04 PM

I'll say first that of the two I prefer stones from the Tampanesis , however, the best fruits were from Chicon Nindo, a definite Mexicanae. Both were fun, very bright and light-hearted . The stones from the Chicon Nindo were tiny, like little pebbles, but they seemed more potent, and slightly darker.

Since I have grown ATL#7, Atlantis and Tampanesis I'd have to say that the Atlantis and Tampanesis "looked" identical when I grew them. The ATL#7 and the Chicon Nindo were each a little different. It was obvious when looking at them side by side in the FC.


Atl#7, Tampanensis and Jalisco look very different when I fruited em. I always wanted to find Atlantis, but I guess I already have it since its Tampanensis.

I'm starting some Chicon Nindo on my brand new Flow Hood tomorrow! Woot woot.

And some Semperviva, Zapatacorum, caerulescens, and rare cube crosses from the community. So excited.

#15 PinkMenace

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 02:13 PM

The wonders of taxonomy.

Though it may be worth mentioning that just because two organisms are of the same species doesn't mean they are identical.

Someone who has a better grasp of the data in regards to variety within the species may know how true this is in this case particularly.

#16 WalkingCatfish

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 03:57 PM

The wonders of taxonomy.

Though it may be worth mentioning that just because two organisms are of the same species doesn't mean they are identical.

Someone who has a better grasp of the data in regards to variety within the species may know how true this is in this case particularly.

 

Yes, P. tampanensis and its soon-to-be junior synonym P. atlantis can still (in principle) have biogeographically distinct populations with different genetics and different morphological characters (though I have no idea if that's actually the case, here). While molecular phylogeny can establish that two organisms share a more recent ancestor than some third organism, the decision of what rank to assign the clade (species, subspecies, etc.) is a taxonomic one.  In other words, it's a judgement call. 

 

The sequences Alan Rockefeller submitted for P. tampanensis, P. atlantis and P. mexicana are chunks of ribosomal RNA (specifically, 5.8S rRNA). The longest one is still less than 700 base pairs (a drop in the millions of base pairs that make up a genome). While it gives an indication of how the organisms relate to one another, phylogenetically, it tells us nothing about the other contents of their respective genomes.  



#17 Deleena24

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Posted 07 February 2019 - 06:04 PM

I'm just glad DNA/RNA is easily sequenced in a lab and relatively cheap, too. Otherwise it would be purely conjecture and differences in appearance could vary wildly from many factors.

Basically it was a PITA 20 or more years ago. Although it's hard to keep up with recent data, we will eventually get the whole genome of these species.

Remember that thread is still only 2 more specimens out of of 3 total found in the wild. Or something close to that. The more people looks for them so we can have fresh identifiable material the better.

Edited by Deleena24, 07 February 2019 - 06:05 PM.





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