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Bag Ready to be broken up/mixed?


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#21 TabbyBoy

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 05:28 PM

I was told to wait till Monday and break this all up together with the substrate.  is this ready? it looks a little soon but I'm no expert so please help.

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#22 coorsmikey

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 07:42 PM

When the grain is 100% colonized is ideally when you want to mix it up, but I say you're good to go!


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#23 roc

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 08:51 PM

Go ahead and mix it up!


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#24 TabbyBoy

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 09:58 PM

Go ahead and mix it up!

Just mixed it up, Now it's back in the incubation chamber. How long until it should be able to put in the tray? what will it look like?



#25 Deleena24

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 09:59 PM

Mix it baby! The tiny bit of uncolonized grain shouldn't matter IME. You're keeping the bag closed so things should stay sterile in there for everything to continue to colonize along with the compost.

Sometimes those large bags look kind of bacterial because there is so much weight and pressure near the bottom of the bag I think the mycelium has a hard time getting the last part of those grains that are pressed against the plastic. That's what I think was happening in that pic earlier.

Edit- we posted the same time. Now that you mixed, and I'm going to assume you did so as thoroughly as possible, you shouldn't open that up or mess with it at all until it is 100% colonized. Remember, theres still uncolonized grain in there.

From there you can crumble into a tray, put the bag on its side and cut off the top, or whatever you want to do to fruit.

This part isnt nearly as long as waiting for the grain to colonize. Each colonized grain is a live innoculation point that's already germinated, and they should be all over the bag.

Edited by Deleena24, 04 March 2019 - 10:05 PM.


#26 roc

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 10:32 PM

After it is fully colonized you may seriously want to consider laying the bag on the side and then cutting the top of the bag off and letting it act as the tray. Crumbling it in the aluminum tray just delays things and I'm not so sure it's on the dry side already. I stopped using aluminum tray 10 years ago after seeing the mycelium eat holes in it meaning you are eating metals which we now know contributes to Alzheimer.

 

I think Coorsmikey suggested growing it out in the bag as well and agree with him. You are not stressing the whole thing by crumbling it again.


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#27 coorsmikey

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Posted 04 March 2019 - 11:35 PM

After it is fully colonized you may seriously want to consider laying the bag on the side and then cutting the top of the bag off and letting it act as the tray. Crumbling it in the aluminum tray just delays things and I'm not so sure it's on the dry side already. I stopped using aluminum tray 10 years ago after seeing the mycelium eat holes in it meaning you are eating metals which we now know contributes to Alzheimer.

I think Coorsmikey suggested growing it out in the bag as well and agree with him. You are not stressing the whole thing by crumbling it again.

Nailed it! I just laid some bags of pans I just spawned on the side to colonize. When they are done I will cut them open and case them. You can even set the bag in the aluminum tray to colonize for shape and support. No Alzheimer's that way! 
95EBF006-1BA1-497B-9D14-EDF179FB9EBC.jpeg


Edited by coorsmikey, 04 March 2019 - 11:41 PM.

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#28 TabbyBoy

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 08:03 AM

 

After it is fully colonized you may seriously want to consider laying the bag on the side and then cutting the top of the bag off and letting it act as the tray. Crumbling it in the aluminum tray just delays things and I'm not so sure it's on the dry side already. I stopped using aluminum tray 10 years ago after seeing the mycelium eat holes in it meaning you are eating metals which we now know contributes to Alzheimer.

I think Coorsmikey suggested growing it out in the bag as well and agree with him. You are not stressing the whole thing by crumbling it again.

Nailed it! I just laid some bags of pans I just spawned on the side to colonize. When they are done I will cut them open and case them. You can even set the bag in the aluminum tray to colonize for shape and support. No Alzheimer's that way!
attachicon.gif95EBF006-1BA1-497B-9D14-EDF179FB9EBC.jpeg

So once it's done colonizing, I set it on the side and cut it open so it can grow from the side? what about a casing layer? everyone says {PE doesn't grow well out of cakes or out of the bag. How would i go about doing that?
I can colonize in the tray? like would i set it in the tray right now so that it can make the shape of it while its colonizing?
Could i do as i said before and cut the top of the side off and put the bag IN the aluminum tray? Will the bag alone hold casing mix?
Also, I have it all compacted to the bottom. Will it be okay to loosen it up and put it on the side?

Would it be better if i go get a plastic tray instead?


Edited by TabbyBoy, 05 March 2019 - 08:21 AM.


#29 roc

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 09:09 AM

Lay it flat on the wide side with the injection port up.

 

Give it a good shake side to side to level it out inside and let it colonize.

 

When it's colonized cut down the middle and fold the sides up and trim the sides to leave an inch or so and then case it.

 

Don't pack the casing just level it out.


Edited by roc, 05 March 2019 - 09:11 AM.


#30 TabbyBoy

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 09:57 AM

Lay it flat on the wide side with the injection port up.

 

Give it a good shake side to side to level it out inside and let it colonize.

 

When it's colonized cut down the middle and fold the sides up and trim the sides to leave an inch or so and then case it.

 

Don't pack the casing just level it out.

Thank you. Will it be better if i find a plastic tray a little bigger than the bag since i would be widening the surface area? would that result in a higher yield? or would i rather have a thicker cake to grow from?



#31 roc

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 12:12 PM

3-4 inch thick is ideal.

 

If you already have the aluminum trays just use them.

The colonized bag will be self supporting and pretty solid.



#32 TabbyBoy

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 12:44 PM

3-4 inch thick is ideal.

 

If you already have the aluminum trays just use them.

The colonized bag will be self supporting and pretty solid.

Thank you i will. I'll use the tray slightly but i will be using the bag as the real support considering the shrooms will eat the aluminum which i do not want


Edited by TabbyBoy, 05 March 2019 - 06:10 PM.

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#33 TabbyBoy

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 06:11 PM

today I'm gonna go look for a plastic tray again, This time I'm bringing a tape measure! From what i understand it will fruit more evenly in a plastic tray than it would out of the bag. Is this correct?



#34 deemesis

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 06:15 PM

After it is fully colonized you may seriously want to consider laying the bag on the side and then cutting the top of the bag off and letting it act as the tray. Crumbling it in the aluminum tray just delays things and I'm not so sure it's on the dry side already. I stopped using aluminum tray 10 years ago after seeing the mycelium eat holes in it meaning you are eating metals which we now know contributes to Alzheimer.

 

I think Coorsmikey suggested growing it out in the bag as well and agree with him. You are not stressing the whole thing by crumbling it again.

Genius!!!



#35 roc

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 06:21 PM

today I'm gonna go look for a plastic tray again, This time I'm bringing a tape measure! From what i understand it will fruit more evenly in a plastic tray than it would out of the bag. Is this correct?

If you are talking about crumbling it up and putting it in a tray you will only delay the whole process!
 

If you wanted to do that you should have not bought the bag with the spawn and substrate in the same bag.

 

What you bought was intended to be left in the bag.

 

You are going to mess around and dry the substrate out and get less fruit.

The chance of an even pinset is better if you leave it alone.


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#36 peacefrog

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 06:29 PM

A lot of growers advise mixing up grain at the 30% mark. It is good advice, but I have always shaken/distributed grain earlier than that, which can lead to multiple shakes. Just my preference.

I like to know ASAP if there is contamination in my grain master/spawn jars so I give um a good shake after they are around 10-20% colonized, watch how they recover. Then shake or toss (depending on their recovery) as many times as it takes until I reach full colonization. I have never seen this be detrimental to any species I have grown.

If they don’t recover, or do so badly, I consider them contaminated and toss um.

Again, this is just my preferred way.

#37 TabbyBoy

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 06:33 PM

 

today I'm gonna go look for a plastic tray again, This time I'm bringing a tape measure! From what i understand it will fruit more evenly in a plastic tray than it would out of the bag. Is this correct?

If you are talking about crumbling it up and putting it in a tray you will only delay the whole process!
 

If you wanted to do that you should have not bought the bag with the spawn and substrate in the same bag.

 

What you bought was intended to be left in the bag.

 

You are going to mess around and dry the substrate out and get less fruit.

The chance of an even pinset is better if you leave it alone.

 

Okay, I definitely trust your experience and opinion. Instead i will keep it in the bag and only use the bottom part of the aluminum tray to keep the bag in. Thank you for informing me about delaying it if i do that.


Edited by TabbyBoy, 05 March 2019 - 06:34 PM.

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#38 TabbyBoy

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 06:40 PM

So this is my plan now. I will wait until it is colonized and cut open the side, Then put a quarter inch (suggestion by the company) of casing mix on top. 

My extremely beginner questions are, Would i give it light even before the casing mix is all colonized? When do i start misting? How will i know if i have enough poly fill in the sides? what is a good way to tell the humidity is low in a mono tub?  What are some warning signs to look out for with contamination and things along that line? 

I know these are LOTS of questions i could probably answer with a bit of research but with my given situation i think you all would know enough about it to give me the best advice possible. Especially since Im growing PE and from what I've researched this is a harder strain to grow.



#39 Deleena24

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 07:42 PM

A lot of growers advise mixing up grain at the 30% mark. It is good advice, but I have always shaken/distributed grain earlier than that, which can lead to multiple shakes. Just my preference.

I like to know ASAP if there is contamination in my grain master/spawn jars so I give um a good shake after they are around 10-20% colonized, watch how they recover. Then shake or toss (depending on their recovery) as many times as it takes until I reach full colonization. I have never seen this be detrimental to any species I have grown.

If they don’t recover, or do so badly, I consider them contaminated and toss um.

Again, this is just my preferred way.


I feel the same way about mixing, but as a new grower I'm thinking that extra 2 or 3 day recovery after crumbling already fully colonized material is time they dont want to add to the process.

That's why putting the bag on its side and cutting off the top was one of the methods I suggested along with crumbling into a tray. It all comes down to what you're comfortable doing.

I think putting the bag into a tray now to use as a mold for the substrate is a good idea. It's basically the best of both worlds. You get the shape and depth you want and the convenience of simply cutting off the top and fruiting when it's done colonizing. Not to mention it's a liner so no heavy metal deposits either.

Just remember to keep the filter side up for GE ;)

#40 TabbyBoy

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Posted 05 March 2019 - 08:07 PM

 

A lot of growers advise mixing up grain at the 30% mark. It is good advice, but I have always shaken/distributed grain earlier than that, which can lead to multiple shakes. Just my preference.

I like to know ASAP if there is contamination in my grain master/spawn jars so I give um a good shake after they are around 10-20% colonized, watch how they recover. Then shake or toss (depending on their recovery) as many times as it takes until I reach full colonization. I have never seen this be detrimental to any species I have grown.

If they don’t recover, or do so badly, I consider them contaminated and toss um.

Again, this is just my preferred way.


I feel the same way about mixing, but as a new grower I'm thinking that extra 2 or 3 day recovery after crumbling already fully colonized material is time they dont want to add to the process.

That's why putting the bag on its side and cutting off the top was one of the methods I suggested along with crumbling into a tray. It all comes down to what you're comfortable doing.

I think putting the bag into a tray now to use as a mold for the substrate is a good idea. It's basically the best of both worlds. You get the shape and depth you want and the convenience of simply cutting off the top and fruiting when it's done colonizing. Not to mention it's a liner so no heavy metal deposits either.

Just remember to keep the filter side up for GE ;)

 

I've kept the filter patch up and accessible. My tray is a little wider than my bag though. When i cut the bag will it spread out some? 






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