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Veil breaking on my first pin ever. Uh Oh?


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#1 JanetPlanet

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Posted 11 May 2019 - 07:37 PM

My first grow ever, and my first pin's veil appears to be breaking. The pin is about an inch tall, it appeared six days ago.

20190511_165412.jpg

I'm guessing it has to do with something being too dry. 

 

I think I'm falling off the teetering knife edge of giving it plenty of FAE while at the same time not letting it dehydrate. 

 

The top tub doesn't collect any condensation, so I've been misting and fanning several times a day, 6qt dubtub.

I have a humidifier going in the room the tub is in.

After each mist/fan, before I put the top tub back on I hold the inverted top over the humidifier so it and the substrate tub fill with vapor, and slip it over the substrate tub as quickly as I can to keep as much vapor in as possible. 

20190511_165547.jpg

 

Other variables and observations:

** temperature is a consistent 72-74F

** "fuzzy foot" on this pin? Why?

** lots of new pins coming in all over the place

** the substrate has pulled away from the sides of the tub

** the holes in the two tubs are about 1/4" diameter, sealed with micropore tape. There are 16 of them around the sides just above the substrate, and 18 in the top tub. Too few? Too small? Not enough FAE?

** I live in a brutally dry climate and am air conditioning the house (which acts as a whole-house dehumidifier)

** yes, I know you can see droplets of water and I know that's wrong but I don't know what to do about the dry environment.

 

I'm trying to be self reliant and google my way out of things rather than ask my 10,000 questions of you all -- then I get so many conflicting answers online I get completely cornfuzzled. So here I am, humbly asking away. I hope my pictures and descriptions are clear.

 

"Give it plenty of fresh air! Don't let it dry out!"

What's a poor desert rat to do?

Or am I overthinking, over researching, over worrying it all?

 


#2 roc

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Posted 11 May 2019 - 08:57 PM

I think it all looks good... fuzzy foot and droplets tell us the moisture is OK and sounds like fanning is good.

The one pin may not do much but let's see what the others do in the next 24 hours.


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#3 jkdeth

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Posted 11 May 2019 - 09:58 PM

Always lose a few. Wait to see what the flush does.
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#4 jkdeth

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Posted 11 May 2019 - 10:00 PM

Are your pins all near the edges?

#5 JanetPlanet

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Posted 12 May 2019 - 12:31 AM

Are your pins all near the edges?

A lot of the most developed ones are.

The more central ones are harder to see because they're not as advanced, but there is a profusion of little proto-pin dots (brown tipped, not just white knots) pretty much everywhere you see white masses.

There is also one less developed mycelium spot and quite a bit of brown coir/verm substrate which I have sprayed a bit more since nothing is growing there anyway.

It looks like there will also be a lot of pins coming up from the gap between the shrunken substrate and the shoebox wall. 

 

Normally I would be more polite and resize this image, but I'm going to put up this great big huge one so you can see the detail:

20190511_215953.jpg

 

Then I geeked out and photoshopped green circles around the more developed pin clusters, with the first one circled in magenta, which is probably completely unnecessary since you guys are so tuned in to observing these things: 

20190511_215953b.jpg



#6 JanetPlanet

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Posted 12 May 2019 - 12:35 AM

PS

I am having So. Much. Fun. with this little Science Project. 

Thank you all so much, especially you, Deth and Roc.

♥ 


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#7 JanetPlanet

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Posted 12 May 2019 - 09:33 AM

Before I was fully awake this morning I had that "Ooooooh, did Santa come?!!!" feeling. So I rolled out of bed at 6am and went to check the tub. 

The veil breaker was about 75% open, and in my nerdy ignorant excitement I imagined that I could see spore darkness on the stem so I picked it. (Maybe I just secretly wanted to pick it!).

Here's a thumbnail ;)

20190512_065732.jpg

On closer inspection, I should have just left it alone but it does give me a chance to test run my dehydrator. It's in there all by its little self right now, on Fan Only (I should avoid even the lowest heat setting, right? 

20190512_065843.jpg

 

As for the prolific side pinning that I'm pretty sure is coming:

I taped the long sides of the tub together, creating tension that closes the gap between the side and the substrate on those sides (and creates an equal gap between the top and bottom tubs, allowing for faster dryout).

I had an idea: would it be good to pasteurize some substrate and use a table knife to gently wedge it into that gap with it so it gets less O2 and light, so as to prevent side pinning? 

 



#8 jkdeth

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Posted 12 May 2019 - 10:35 AM

The best bet is don't worry about side pinning. Using a bag liner in the tub can help. It will stick to the sub and shrink with it.

Its mostly side pins because its a better microclimate for pinning on the sides than the top. As you get better at providing the right conditions, the top set will get better.

Side pins do give you an indication of conditions, but preventing them will not make the substrate pin on the top.

Your humidity probably isn't high enough. Keep spraying, stop fanning. Opening the tub is all the FAE it needs now. Heavy mist once a day.

A gap between top and bottom tubs is okay for maturing mushrooms, not okay for getting a pinset.

If you add substrate around the edges it also opens a new vector for contamination.
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#9 roc

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 07:53 AM

I don't have the heat hooked up on my dehydrator. I set mine next to a floor register in lieu of a fan. With your dry climate yours will dry up fast.

Have you got any desiccant yet for that last drying step for cracker dry? 


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#10 PJammer24

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 10:05 AM

if it were me, I would listen to JK. probability is high that you will get larger fruits in later flushes... There is a chance that the genetics of the mushroom simply produce small mushrooms.

 

You mentioned that you thought you saw that spores had dropped on the stipe... While that is often a possibility, it appears that you are working with PE... PE do not drop spores readily or really produce spores heavily at all... With many strains, I will make sure to pull them prior to the caps opening fully so I don't get spores all over my substrate. With PE in particular, I don't worry about this as much. Not only do the caps not open as quickly to the point where they are unattractive, they also don't sporulate heavily in general making it less of a concern for me.


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#11 JanetPlanet

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 11:59 AM

I don't have the heat hooked up on my dehydrator. I set mine next to a floor register in lieu of a fan. With your dry climate yours will dry up fast.

Have you got any desiccant yet for that last drying step for cracker dry? 

I need to stop throwing away those little packets! 

Can will keep the dried ones in an airtight container in the fridge for a month until I get some dessicant?

 

if it were me, I would listen to JK. probability is high that you will get larger fruits in later flushes... There is a chance that the genetics of the mushroom simply produce small mushrooms.

 

You mentioned that you thought you saw that spores had dropped on the stipe... While that is often a possibility, it appears that you are working with PE... PE do not drop spores readily or really produce spores heavily at all... With many strains, I will make sure to pull them prior to the caps opening fully so I don't get spores all over my substrate. With PE in particular, I don't worry about this as much. Not only do the caps not open as quickly to the point where they are unattractive, they also don't sporulate heavily in general making it less of a concern for me.

The spores I ordered are not PE but GT and A+. Still, who knows! I kept the grain spawn jars separate for the two strains, but didn't mark the jars, so I don't know which these are. I chose the strains because they are supposed to be easier to grow. 

I'm watching and waiting now, and I'm definitely getting at least one fatter taller bigger one, as well as some littles who have broken their veils that I am leaving for observation.



#12 jkdeth

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 12:37 PM

Heat doesn't hurt the drying. Dehydrator will get them cracker dry. Dessicant packets will help maintain it. As dry as your climate is shouldn't be hard to keep them dry. Cracker dry, sealed in a jar or vaccuum sealed.

Just some extra info, Zip lock bags are gas permeable, if you end up with any in ziplocks, keep them in the freezer.
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#13 JanetPlanet

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 10:34 PM

Heat doesn't hurt the drying. Dehydrator will get them cracker dry. Dessicant packets will help maintain it. As dry as your climate is shouldn't be hard to keep them dry. Cracker dry, sealed in a jar or vaccuum sealed.

Just some extra info, Zip lock bags are gas permeable, if you end up with any in ziplocks, keep them in the freezer.

Good to know. I do have a vacuum sealer. 



#14 JanetPlanet

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 10:44 PM

Here's how the tub is looking tonight. 

20190513_203034.jpg

The biggest fattest tallest one broke its veil this afternoon, the cap isn't very umbrella-ed out. It's about 3" 7cm tall. Maybe I was sent PE by mistake? Should I pick and dry, or let it develop more?

20190513_203005.jpg

No matter, it's thrilling to see all these little clusters! I check on them more often than any sane person should. 

 

Now I'm thinking ahead towards the end of the week. I leave Saturday for 18 time zones away.

On Thursday morning I will be asking about how to prepare this tray to go back in the fridge for a month. 

 

 



#15 CatsAndBats

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Posted 13 May 2019 - 11:07 PM

Doesn't look like PE to me.

 

I'd watch/check your sub moisture content, I fucked up bad recently and had perfect pin-sets that produced tiny little fruits (< 1/2"), upon many conversations with some old heads, the consensus was too wet of a sub combined with genetics (it only happened to red boy strains/crosses).


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#16 JanetPlanet

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 12:58 AM

There was a shadow of spores on the stem and remaining veil of the big one, and all the others in its cluster had broken veils, so I picked the cluster.

Maybe it was too soon, but I'm one pleased noobie!

More on the way. let's see how patient I can be with the next ones. 

20190513_225227.jpg

 

 

 



#17 roc

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 05:53 AM

Your timing was perfect for doing the twist and pull!


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#18 JanetPlanet

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Posted 14 May 2019 - 08:57 AM

Your timing was perfect for doing the twist and pull!

Ah! Thank you for the clarification/validation! 


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