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Encourage aborts?


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#1 NewMycoDisciple

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 09:58 PM

I was reading somewhere that aborts are super potent, is there a way to encourage more of them to increase the overall potency of the yield? If so, is it worth it? Does it even work that way?

Edited by NewMycoDisciple, 07 June 2019 - 09:58 PM.


#2 Commienerd

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 10:14 PM

I've never heard of this. Following.

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#3 HrVanker

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 10:16 PM

As far as I know, there is no solid (lab) data to prove that they are stronger. However, many growers have noticed that they are more potent *gram for gram*.

I believe the prevailing wisdom is that: very early in pin development each mushroom has its max or near max amount of psilocybin/psilocin. And then it simply blows up with water, like a balloon. Thus diluting the density of the actives. I have also seen (I'll find it) that RogerRabbit claimed that this is incorrect.

Bottom line: 2g of aborts vs 2g of fully developed mushrooms, the aborts will give you a stronger ride. But forcing aborts won't really help you in the long run, because: you can easily lose a whole grow, pin formation won't happen as quickly/efficiently, you'll end up losing more than you will gain.

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#4 NewMycoDisciple

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 10:22 PM

As far as I know, there is no solid (lab) data to prove that they are stronger. However, many growers have noticed that they are more potent *gram for gram*.
I believe the prevailing wisdom is that: very early in pin development each mushroom has its max or near max amount of psilocybin/psilocin. And then it simply blows up with water, like a balloon. Thus diluting the density of the actives. I have also seen (I'll find it) that RogerRabbit claimed that this is incorrect.
Bottom line: 2g of aborts vs 2g of fully developed mushrooms, the aborts will give you a stronger ride. But forcing aborts won't really help you in the long run, because: you can easily lose a whole grow, pin formation won't happen as quickly/efficiently, you'll end up losing more than you will gain.
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Thank you very much for taking the time to teach me. Could you not alternatively just pick them when they're small and cut your grow time for the same amount of active chemical?

Edited by NewMycoDisciple, 07 June 2019 - 10:23 PM.

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#5 jkdeth

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Posted 07 June 2019 - 10:33 PM

That's the question really. Sure they're more potent. But you're talking small amounts more potent, compared to the yield.

There's some confusion and not enough science on aborts. First, aborts have black caps. Without that identifier, you just got tiny normal mushrooms.

Psilocybin production starts at first pinset and continues till spore drop. But its not linear. Think of a sine wave. Peak is when the mushroom is near maturity, prior to veil break and begins falling off.

This may be why slow maturing fruit has a reputation for potency. More growth during peak active production.

If you really want more potent, grow PE or exotics.

A note about PE, it doesn't follow the rules. Spore production, of there is any, doesn't signal a stop on active production. You can leave PE well active veil break without any reduction in potency.
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#6 NewMycoDisciple

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 04:31 AM

If you really want more potent, grow exotics


Any recommendations that grow on brf cakes or are they exotics because their life cycle is different? I'm not quite there yet, I wanna enjoy what I got and work up a tolerance, if that's even a thing, before I move on to like brain melters lol

#7 jkdeth

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 06:05 AM

Exotic is more slang than exotic.

Roughly its cubes, exotics, wood lovers.

Exotics include Copelandia (Paneoulus) and mexicana varieties. A few others, but those are probably the easiest.

Generally you're moving away from cakes when you go there, but there are cake or cake size tub teks.
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#8 joeya

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 10:54 AM

Among the psilocybe species, there is data to support that azures and cyans are much more potent than cubes.  Ovoids also seem to fall under that same heading, but these are certainly not cake tek types. 



#9 TVCasualty

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 01:49 PM

By growing to the pin stage and harvesting them then (or inducing a pinset to abort) it might leave you with a marginally-higher percentage of alkaloids but it would also mean you'd only get a tiny fraction of the total absolute yield of actives (i.e., fewer trips-per-grow).

 

Even if aborts were double the potency of normal mushrooms (gram for gram), harvesting a half-ounce (dry weight) of aborts from a tray that are (for example) 2% psilocybin gives you 0.28g of it to trip off of.

 

That same tray can likely produce 6-8 ounces (dry) of mature mushrooms (or more), which at only 1% psilocybin gives you 1.68-2.24g to play with. That's 8 times as much from the same tray (with both requiring the same amount of time and effort), and these numbers are almost certainly unrealistically optimistic.

 

So to me it's not worth it.

 

But with that said, I'll still collect and save them for my 'estate reserve' stash. But I don't go to any extra effort, I just wait until there are a bunch gathered at the bottom of whatever I've been storing my dried fungi in. I'd managed to save up an ounce of them a few years ago and made a tub of honey as per my recipe and I had to mark that tub with a red X since it was a lot more potent than the regular honey, but not twice as potent. It's much quicker and easier to just eat more honey.


Edited by TVCasualty, 08 June 2019 - 01:51 PM.

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#10 NewMycoDisciple

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 02:31 PM

By growing to the pin stage and harvesting them then (or inducing a pinset to abort) it might leave you with a marginally-higher percentage of alkaloids but it would also mean you'd only get a tiny fraction of the total absolute yield of actives (i.e., fewer trips-per-grow).
 
Even if aborts were double the potency of normal mushrooms (gram for gram), harvesting a half-ounce (dry weight) of aborts from a tray that are (for example) 2% psilocybin gives you 0.28g of it to trip off of.
 
That same tray can likely produce 6-8 ounces (dry) of mature mushrooms (or more), which at only 1% psilocybin gives you 1.68-2.24g to play with. That's 8 times as much from the same tray (with both requiring the same amount of time and effort), and these numbers are almost certainly unrealistically optimistic.
 
So to me it's not worth it.
 
But with that said, I'll still collect and save them for my 'estate reserve' stash. But I don't go to any extra effort, I just wait until there are a bunch gathered at the bottom of whatever I've been storing my dried fungi in. I'd managed to save up an ounce of them a few years ago and made a tub of honey as per my recipe and I had to mark that tub with a red X since it was a lot more potent than the regular honey, but not twice as potent. It's much quicker and easier to just eat more honey.


Thanks for taking the time to teach me a little more. People like you guys are what makes this community thrive
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#11 Opendoors

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Posted 16 June 2019 - 05:04 PM

I've always wondered if weeding out the aborts helps the rest grow better ... I wouldn't think so because they're done growing and done using up nutrients but I still like to try to "weed " them out as much as i can

#12 TVCasualty

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Posted 17 June 2019 - 11:56 AM

I've always wondered if weeding out the aborts helps the rest grow better ... I wouldn't think so because they're done growing and done using up nutrients but I still like to try to "weed " them out as much as i can

 

Pulling aborts doesn't help in my experience. If anything it can reduce your ultimate yield by damaging the primordia/knots/pins forming for the next flush while trying to pick out the aborts.

 

Some people advise pulling them since they can be vectors of contamination, but IMO the damage to the mycelium caused by picking them is even more likely to cause contamination than leaving them alone.


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