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Spawning brf cakes to brf substrate; black sandy contam; and lasers to kill contaminants


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#1 ilikethings

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Posted 08 June 2019 - 09:28 PM

BRF cakes were spawned to BRF substrate at a ratio of 1:2 (two colonized and pining cakes [in vitro] cut into small cubes/pieces (~1.5cm3), placed on baking pan and covered with freshly PC’ed BRF mix derived from four ½ pint jars).

 

The two spawn cakes were innoced on 4/20/19 and birthed on 6/3/19.  That same day, I cut the cakes into ~ 1.5cm cubes and spread on pan.  Note that it looks half assed in pictures because I did not have a smaller pan to try it where it fit nicely.

 

NOTE: the odd dark brown/red contam looking line on the cake is likely a mixture of rust from lid and myc metabolites.  But if anyone has any other thoughts I like to hear them.  I removed the 1/3 of the cake that had the line upon it and discarded it.

 

As of 6/7/19 it appeared to be colonizing nicely but I noticed two small spots of black specs (pictures below but they are not nearly as clear as in person—and I need new camera).  I used sterile tweezers to remove the spots.  I initially thought of using a straw to accurately drop a couple drops of iso-alcohol on the areas but did not.  This gave me an idea I have never seen discussed here.

 

There are many grow reports on here where people have salvaged contamed bins through various methods—with the hope that if you hold off the contam long enough, the desirable myc will contain the contam sufficiently to get at least one flush. 

 

Has anyone tried using a high power laser (such as the blue lasers that people are using for parlor tricks at cocktail parties these days) to surgically decimate a small contam patch?  My thought was that this may work to kill the contam in a fashion that does not risk disturbing it and thus distributing its spores throughout the rest of the bin.

 

As of 6/8/19, the black dust infection seems to be growing.  See last three pictures.P1040013.JPG P1040014.JPG P1040016.JPG P1040015.JPG P1040016.JPG P1040017.JPG P1040019.JPG P1040020.JPG blk contam 1.JPG blk contam 2.JPG blk contam 3.JPG


Edited by ilikethings, 08 June 2019 - 09:31 PM.


#2 crazy1

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 06:02 AM

For starters, welcome to Topia!!!

 

I hope this grow has been and is isolated, I can not tell you what the contam is, but anything black in a grow is usually not good. 

I tried looking to see if it was bruising, but it's hard to tell. So I"ll take your word for it that it's black.

 

Is there a reason you just didn't grow the cakes out as is?  And remember, once you open a contaminated cake/bag/jar in a glove box, the contam in now in there during your work process

 

Good luck and good vibes

 

Peace


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#3 ilikethings

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 01:54 PM

Thanks for the welcome crazy1!  Yes, it was isolated in its own bin and no other work was done in glove/SAB during that work session, i.e. glove box has since been fully cleaned with 91% iso alcohol.  I am hardly even an amateur mycologist but I'm very certain that it is not bruising.  I attached three pics taken today (carried bin outdoors to take pics and it remains there until i pitch it in trash).  I hope the grainy sand-like nature of the contam comes through in the pics.  it resembles the fruiting bodies/mushrooms of black bread mold.  The reason i did not fruit them as cakes is because the cakes I used, I did not trust them in fruiting chamber with other perfect looking cakes.  Namely because of the odd stringy line in photos--and the the other cake was excessively wet with a thin clear slimy outer layer (but there was no odd scents accompanying the film or the other dark string line).  So it was just a shot in the dark experiment to see what would happen. 

 

Based on my research, the black (and the grey for that matter) contam looks like trichoderma post-sporulation.  But I am inexperienced with identifying trich mycelium--meaning I don't see anything white on pan that does not look like regular cubie mycelium.

 

Thanks for the good vibes!  I've been visiting the topia off and on for many years but finally decided to get involved in the discussions.  

Attached Thumbnails

  • 6-9-19 - a.JPG
  • 6-9-19 - b.JPG
  • 6-9-19 - grey contam.JPG

Edited by ilikethings, 09 June 2019 - 02:11 PM.


#4 mad420pumpkinz

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 01:59 PM

That last pic looks like trich to me. Any other takers?

#5 joeya

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 08:52 PM

That last pic looks like trich to me. Any other takers?

I don't know about that. The trich that I removed from my house was very clearly a green color. This looks like what I was advised was bruising, and turned out not to affect my grow. 

I'm to inexperienced to call this safe, but what I had looked like this, and was safe. The trich I had did not look like this. 

 

J.A.



#6 HrVanker

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Posted 09 June 2019 - 10:02 PM

That last pic looks like trich to me. Any other takers?

I don't know about that. The trich that I removed from my house was very clearly a green color. This looks like what I was advised was bruising, and turned out not to affect my grow.
I'm to inexperienced to call this safe, but what I had looked like this, and was safe. The trich I had did not look like this.

J.A.
A good test to determining trich/other molds vs bruising, is to use a cotton swab and gently rub it against the suspect area. If the swab stays white, it's most likely bruising. If it's trich, the swab will turn color, as you're swabbing spores off of the trich.

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#7 jkdeth

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 02:07 AM

The disclaimer:

Never grow out a contaminated substrate.

Now we got that over with, go pinch out those little spots. Cross your fingers.
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#8 crazy1

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 07:10 AM

Thanks for the updated pictures. And I agree it is Trich, proceed like JK said. Give it a shot and just keep it isolated.



#9 ilikethings

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 03:52 PM

Thanks for all the input.  The entire "pan-cake" has been sent to refuse bin.  But for the two different contams, it was on point to colonize in just one week.  Just a couple closing thoughts.  I am certain that neither the black nor the grey areas were bruising.  It was not discoloration on the myc.  It was a separate matter on top of the myc.  I did initially attempt to save the "pan-cake" my "surgically" removing (sterilized tweezers) the first two infected areas pictured in the last three pictures of the original post praying that the anti-fungal properties of the myc could overcome them but I was wrong.  the subsequent three pictures I posted was the growth over 24hrs.  

 

JK, In an effort to explain myself, I didn't intend to spawn out known contamed cakes--although they did have anomalous/peculiar features.  There was some debate here https://mycotopia.ne...ve-encountered/ re one of the cakes I used for the "pan-cake."



#10 paridox

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 02:45 AM

Alright bubba not gonna lie you did a damn good job on ur first grow, rust is never an issue in a psychoactive mushroom grow: they absorb the iron from it. now lets get to the other things, personally i woud never cut up the brf cake if ur looking to put them in more pf style substrate to grow more. grind them up with your hands and mix it up and put it in an incubator. the reason why i just say break it up is just to get it done an over with. youre dealing with a living organism so cutting it the whole time just causes more stress which will affect ur grow and yield imo. now as for red spots, you are more than right it could easliy be rust spots its hard to tell from your pictures, but ive had those before and again its nothing to worry about. but if its not spots and you have portions that are red growing through out your cake that im not seeing is usually lipstick mold. lipstick mold is the mold you get in ur bathroom on the tiles, the red stuff you can easily get this if ur doing everything in your bathroom, and yes this will affect your yeild. from my expericience the black mold which im not seeing is a crop killer. it to me just looks like unhealthy mycelium (the cakes look dry). never use iso if u can. peroxide will usually kill anything and will keep the mycelium healthy as long as its just a spot, but most of the time if u see it on top its also below. i havnt done this but there is some archived material on using bleach to kill contams by soaking your cakes in a bleach water mix. dunking them in water will rehydrate them and not kill them, so it might be worth taking a look at some of those articals and trying to refruit them. try not to free hand the cakes too if you can.

best of luck on ur grow man, fr great job!


Edited by paridox, 13 June 2019 - 02:56 AM.

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#11 ilikethings

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Posted 13 June 2019 - 08:04 PM

...personally i woud never cut up the brf cake if ur looking to put them in more pf style substrate to grow more. grind them up with your hands and mix it up and put it in an incubator. the reason why i just say break it up is just to get it done an over with. youre dealing with a living organism so cutting it the whole time just causes more stress which will affect ur grow and yield imo....from my expericience the black mold which im not seeing is a crop killer. it to me just looks like unhealthy mycelium (the cakes look dry). never use iso if u can. peroxide will usually kill anything and will keep the mycelium healthy as long as its just a spot, but most of the time if u see it on top its also below. i havnt done this but there is some archived material on using bleach to kill contams by soaking your cakes in a bleach water mix. dunking them in water will rehydrate them and not kill them, so it might be worth taking a look at some of those articals and trying to refruit them. try not to free hand the cakes too if you can.

best of luck on ur grow man, fr great job!

Thanks Paridox.  But sadly this is not my first grow.  And this pancake tek I was experimenting with was simply an attempt to gain some knowledge from two cakes I would have otherwise trashed out of caution--even though neither had a specific and clear contam.  With regard to cutting the cakes into cubes, I was trying to avoid the very thing you stated, i.e. excess stress to the organism.  My mental analysis was that cutting into cubes would allow me to spread the myc over a large surface area with a minimal amount of myc fractures...especially compared to grinding it up.  But I hear you and several threads echo your suggested procedure. 

 

I do not perform work in bathroom.  Again, and I sincerely do not want to come off as rude or arrogant, but the black areas clearly consisted of something on top of the myc and they physically looked like grains of black volcanic sand.  I agree that one of the two cakes i used was dry (the one where the myc started/atempted to digest/ing the rusted/oxidized metal) but the other was excessively saturated due to an unknown reason during pressure cooking (and this was the reason I slated it for experimentation).  Point taken re bare hands.  I still have a hobo setup at the moment but I am working hard to improve my tools and protocols.    

 

P.S. I am also disappointed today to find a batch/lot (I've been working on a records keeping protocol similar to that used for patients in hospitals re keeping track of progress over time) of beautiful cakes with deformed pins (no caps) on their 1st flush.  NOTE: yellow area on cake in 3rd pic is only a shadow.  I have another thread on this topic here: https://mycotopia.ne...d/#entry1406655

Attached Thumbnails

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Edited by ilikethings, 13 June 2019 - 08:27 PM.

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#12 ilikethings

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Posted 28 June 2019 - 05:23 PM

UPDATE!  My concern for what first appeared like deformed and stunted/abort fruits came to pass.  Here are some pics of how they grew.  And they got even better after pics were taken.

Attached Thumbnails

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  • P1040043.JPG

Edited by ilikethings, 28 June 2019 - 05:24 PM.

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