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A sudden shift in awareness


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#1 ElPirana

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 02:42 PM

I have changed my ideas of who or what I am over the past couple years. For example I have many times gone through the practice of thinking through the ideas that I am not my thoughts, I am not my body, I am not my emotions, I am not my senses, etc. Most of the time it is more of a cognitive thought process and not a direct experience of whatever it is behind all those things. I suppose the closest I’ve come to is meditating and having random thoughts come up, then realizing I have no idea where they come from. Or weirder still to have thoughts that come up in the “sound” of someone else’s voice, like a family member, rather than my own. Of course there’ve been all kinds of experiences in tripping.

Then this happened:
Last week I was in a meeting with some colleagues and my bosses. I was vocalizing some points to my boss and right in the middle of this my whole awareness shifted....like it moved up and back. I was “watching” what my eyes were seeing as if from another perspective. I was “listening” to the words flowing out of my mouth, but as if I did not have any control of those processes, I was just watching them happen. I couldn’t even sense the connection of the words to the thoughts, although I could still sense the memory of the thoughts that led up to the words that were flowing out. It was sort of a surreal experience, and totally unexpected. The experience didn’t last very long, maybe several seconds, then my awareness slowly moved back into its normal position, not sure how else to say it.

Has anyone had this happen?

Lately I’ve been doing a bit of mindfulness meditation throughout the days, but not doing anything too intense. I have been trying to keep my awareness on my senses at the moment, or on my thoughts without following them.
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#2 Alder Logs

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Posted 10 June 2019 - 04:00 PM

An experience much like this came my way about four and a half years ago, but the seemingly disembodied impersonal perspective lasted for some days before the personal viewpoint started trying to make something of it beyond the true simplicity there was in the being of it.

 

I might suggest that there is awareness, and then there is an idea that we might call, "my awareness."  If we are experiencing the 'my awareness' thing, we can look to see who this 'my' claiming is.  The being awareness is not in and of thought.  The personally claimed awareness is only the product of thoughts and a belief in them.   It is the conditioned identity, the stories we have had of ourselves as persons.   Take a good look at how we can simply be aware, or we can be some something pretending to own awareness in some particular perspective.  If we see awareness move back into some "normal position," what is it which has this awareness?  Are there two awarenesses involved here?   The objectified version of awareness is the creation of thought. 

 

When we start seeing thought with the detachment of an impersonal seeing, being is becoming known.   Just love the being (like you could do other than love it).  Enjoy.   I think you are knowing the freedom that is.   Just let it be, and watch without identification.   And then, there will be the chopping of wood and the carrying of water, and in that, abidance.   No big deal, eh?   :)


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#3 Alder Logs

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 07:38 AM

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#4 crazy1

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 08:00 AM

Some truly amazing things become, when we realize who we're not, and accept the energy that we are.

 

You ar moving forward in a way that is in tune with where you are intended to be. As Alder said, Enjoy


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#5 DonShadow

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Posted 11 June 2019 - 08:40 AM

What you've described was a significant revelation for me when I started taking higher doses, that there are multiple minds or multiple perspectives within the I. The I is something like a consolidation or average of all the perspectives, but may be viewed more critically from the outside. Problems seem to arise when one or more of these components is out of sync, and begins to think itself the captain of the ship. When all of the components cooperate, the soul mushrooms.
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#6 Thacan

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 12:15 PM

Great subject and beautifully articulated. I can sometimes get to this same place today when meditating, but my goal is to arrive at this state of awareness in the most difficult moments of everyday life. Those times where my brain jumps into “auto” mode and primitive mental responses take over. My goal is to hit that same state of self awareness and change course in moments of anger and other times when an irrational lack of mindfulness takes over. I think I first learned of this with psychedelics decades ago, but through my life journey (without psychedelics) I find this skill illusive and somewhere along the way I mostly forgot about it. It’s one of the reasons that I am here.

Edited by Thacan, 14 June 2019 - 04:13 PM.

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#7 Coopdog

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 12:46 PM

Wow man that is amazing. I went through a time in my life when I had a handfull of amazing teachers around me. During that time I began some very dedicated meditation. Mostly my meditations involved trying to quiet my mind which I always had a hard time with, staying in the NOW which has gotten much better over the years, and chakra/kundalini meditations. Over the course of a couple of years I had one after another experiences that I considered breakthrough experiences, and what you are describing was one of the first. It really blew my mind when it happened.

 

That lead to my trying to separate my consciousness from my body and remote viewing sort of thing. While I had some amazing sessions of that, and proved (to me at least) that this is entirely possible, as Thacan said, I found it to be illusive 90+% of the time even with some long hours of dedicated practice. In time I let it go, although with the intent to revisit those skills at some later point in my life and focus on simply meditating with healing intent, and that is where my practice has remained. I sort of feel like that may be my niche, at least for now. 

 

A few times I had some very exciting things happen though, at least to me they were. Several times I was able to take what my teacher called Shamanic Journeys and just go wherever my thoughts lead me. To the tops of mountains, inside the head of a cougar, and a hawk. The Hawaiian Hunas believe we have three separate minds, the lower mind, which is in control of our animal instincts and baser needs, like sex, and even addictions, and that mind is like a petulent child, always babbling and giving impulses to the body. 

 

The second is the day to day mind, that guides us through the basic things we have to do every day to survive in this world and experiences our reality on a day to day basis. The third is our higher mind or our God source that is responsible for the need to grow and become more and our connection to the source, whatever you may believe that to be. 

 

When I do big doses, no matter what of, I split... I become the tripper who is out of his mind and experiencing the total bliss of the psychedelic experience, and also behind that I am the one who is watching all this with a clinical detachment that can step in when needed, like if I suddenly find myself in the presense of the police for some reason. I have talked myself and my friends out of some sticky situations with that ability to step in and take over the madness. Freaked my friend out one night, and he accused me of not even taking the acid and faking the trip, which of course I did not fake the trip at all, and when the tight situation was over, the trip took over again and we laughed all night. 

 

Very cool to hear that it happened to you as well. That is something that you now know can happen, and that you can use especially in times of stress. 

 

I sure miss that time in my life when I was surrounded by so many amazing souls that for some odd reason took a genuine interest in making me into a better man than I ever was before. I am so very grateful for all of them, and I miss them all very much. Not many things I wish I could go back in time for, but that is one of them, just to have their guidance and friendship back in my life. Strange how time changes everything. 

 

Peace...


Edited by Coopdog, 14 June 2019 - 12:57 PM.

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#8 Alder Logs

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Posted 14 June 2019 - 09:15 PM

Time changes everything... except the timeless. As Mooji likes to say: "Time says, 'every thing you see, I will eat that'," and, "While you have the time, find the timeless."

 

What time is it?


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#9 ElPirana

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Posted 15 June 2019 - 08:33 AM

When we start seeing thought with the detachment of an impersonal seeing, being is becoming known.   Just love the being (like you could do other than love it).  Enjoy.   I think you are knowing the freedom that is.   Just let it be, and watch without identification.   And then, there will be the chopping of wood and the carrying of water, and in that, abidance.   No big deal, eh?   :)

  

About a year ago I was practicing a similar meditative practice that allowed me to be aware of the “now” moments and not be constantly caught up in my thoughts, daydreams and memories. It was very liberating and brought a lot of joy at the time. A lot ended up happening in my life at the time and I let myself slip out of the routine, one thing led to another and have just lately been getting back into it, where I never should have left. Now I am focusing myself again on awareness of each moment, but not finding the same kind of joy in it. But I have noticed that I am finally finding how I can be aware of my emotions and how they change. I notice that my mood goes down and then since I can simply be aware of the fact that my emotional state has changed (and not the real “me”) then it sort of allows that emotion to become unstuck and soon after I notice my emotional state to be opposite, and I don’t spend so much time following useless activities to try to avoid the bad feelings (like eating food/snacks, or getting lost in the internet, or a slew of other things.) I’m also watching myself more and more to find what are my emotional triggers, which I continually find are based on past difficult experiences and the story/stories that I believe from those experiences.

Great subject and beautifully articulated. I can sometimes get to this same place today when meditating, but my goal is to arrive at this state of awareness in the most difficult moments of everyday life. Those times where my brain jumps into “auto” mode and primitive mental responses take over. My goal is to hit that same state of self awareness and change course in moments of anger and other times when an irrational lack of mindfulness takes over. I think I first learned of this with psychedelics decades ago, but through my life journey (without psychedelics) I find this skill illusive and somewhere along the way I mostly forgot about it. It’s one of the reasons that I am here.

  

I’m finding that the change occurs little by little, one small bit at a time. I think for most people, there won’t be sudden changes. Just speaking for myself, I am constantly thinking about these things and how to apply to myself, every day, almost all day long. But when I look back over the past couple years, I am clearly not the same person I was before. With practice you will find that your mind won’t go into “auto” mode as often and you won’t react the same way.
As far as dealing with anger, I have found more and more over time how I am the same as everyone else. It’s become so real for me that anger has stopped on its own for the most part. Maybe try contemplating more often how you have made your choices in life, good and bad. What went into those choices? There are an infinite amount of things that contributed to those choices. Could you really have done anything different? We’re you making what you thought were the “right” decisions at that moment, no matter the outcome? How is any of this different for other people?

 
I sure miss that time in my life when I was surrounded by so many amazing souls that for some odd reason took a genuine interest in making me into a better man than I ever was before. I am so very grateful for all of them, and I miss them all very much. Not many things I wish I could go back in time for, but that is one of them, just to have their guidance and friendship back in my life. Strange how time changes everything. 
 
Peace...


That’s awesome you’ve had good teachers in your life, I’ve had to get everything off the internet or from books lol.

Also, if you want the meditative experiences you had before, maybe you don’t have them now simply because you want them. I’m by no means an expert, I really have only been on this path a relatively short time, but I learned something interesting when I started meditating at the beginning. I was following a concentration type meditation everyday, you know the typical follow-your-breath meditation. Each time that I had a new and enjoyable experience like sinking into a deeper state or sensing my energy flowing, I would have horrible meditations for the next several days. I found that I would try to recreate the experiences, I would sort of attach to those experiences and that attachment would hinder my meditation. Only when I would eventually let go of the attachments and desires would the meditation start improving again.
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#10 Alder Logs

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Posted 15 June 2019 - 11:18 AM

The states of being that exalt with even momentary bits of realization can have the affect of giving a shot to the pretended identity, which will of course say, "give me this state, I like it!"  And then, it lays out a map in time and will demand the state of its choosing, and then when it doesn't get it precisely as it is in its projections, its state basically goes to Hell.   When we can take the position of an impersonal witnessing, we catch how our imagined identity just has to torpedo what being has given us, we start learning how this has happened like this all along.  The repetition is a grace (I know I need it).   We start to see we are not our conditioned idea of an individual self or ego.   We become more and more unable to be fooled by believing.

 

See the states come and go, and know, even the best of these are in time.  Only the seeing/being was always t/here, always now.  The eternal isn't something that comes later.  Later is not going to happen.  Happening is always now.   When we stop needing the razzle-dazzle states to prove our theories of being, then the simplicity of being here starts to shine in its every flavor and hue.   If there is a desire, there will be an unfulfilled desirer, created in nothing but thought.  Fuck that guy.  He never was. 


Edited by Alder Logs, 15 June 2019 - 11:22 AM.

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#11 jkdeth

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 09:28 PM

Even "NOW" is a construct. Its the nature of brain chemistry. The closest you can ever get to "now" is .2 seconds in the past. Now, is a future event we can only perceive in passing.
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#12 zenzen

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 11:33 AM

become the watcher of thought and the prison of your ego will fight back sometimes I have found.  Its a never ending struggle for me and I have found Meditation helps with keeping a state of awareness alive but it still falls off in time for me.  I have a hard time with stress, work, life and want to work towards living in a state of awareness like Ram Dass or Ekheart Tolle talk about.  Just existing in the current moment with love is hard for me but its something I keep trying to maintain.  Its like a game of wack a mole.  


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#13 ElPirana

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 12:51 PM

become the watcher of thought and the prison of your ego will fight back sometimes I have found.


I was literally thinking/feeling this last week. Just as I watch more and more, my ego tries to sabotage me...at least I am recognizing it more.


Also last week, I was feeling frustrated. I didn’t know why, there wasn’t anything specific to cause me to feel that way. I ended up reacting to my son poorly and just wasn’t patient with him. After a while I wondered to myself, why in the world am I feeling this way?? So, recognizing my feelings, I first sat down with my son and apologized for my actions and explained to him that he didn’t do anything wrong, it was me who was wrong, the I made sure to let him know how much I love him. After that, I began to wonder if this was a samskara, a mental impression that was coming up for whatever reason, and that my resistance to the feeling was probably actually making it worse. I chose to notice and watch the feeling of frustration, allow it to be rather than try to change it. The feeling slowly subsided over the next 20 or 30 minutes and life went on like normal.

As I continue to watch myself, I find that I am quicker to come to these realizations and in turn those thoughts and feelings rise and fall without the consequences that they may have had before.
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#14 Moonless

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 03:00 PM

 

become the watcher of thought and the prison of your ego will fight back sometimes I have found.



As I continue to watch myself, I find that I am quicker to come to these realizations and in turn those thoughts and feelings rise and fall without the consequences that they may have had before.

 

 

 Gaww u so smart! u be compassionate, good for you!


Edited by Moonless, 25 June 2019 - 03:01 PM.

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#15 zenzen

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 04:07 PM

become the watcher of thought and the prison of your ego will fight back sometimes I have found.

I was literally thinking/feeling this last week. Just as I watch more and more, my ego tries to sabotage me...at least I am recognizing it more.


Also last week, I was feeling frustrated. I didn’t know why, there wasn’t anything specific to cause me to feel that way. I ended up reacting to my son poorly and just wasn’t patient with him. After a while I wondered to myself, why in the world am I feeling this way?? So, recognizing my feelings, I first sat down with my son and apologized for my actions and explained to him that he didn’t do anything wrong, it was me who was wrong, the I made sure to let him know how much I love him. After that, I began to wonder if this was a samskara, a mental impression that was coming up for whatever reason, and that my resistance to the feeling was probably actually making it worse. I chose to notice and watch the feeling of frustration, allow it to be rather than try to change it. The feeling slowly subsided over the next 20 or 30 minutes and life went on like normal.

As I continue to watch myself, I find that I am quicker to come to these realizations and in turn those thoughts and feelings rise and fall without the consequences that they may have had before.

It’s the same for me. I end up beating myself up about things as well and my ego pulls me down fast. It can take me days to dig myself out of it sometimes. Iv been using a meditation app for the last 6 months and all this self discovery is new to me but I’m working on undoing 50 years of bad ideas and self doubt so it’s going to take time. It’s an odd thing the mind. Watching Elkhart Tollie and Sam Harris videos have been a big help for me.


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#16 Alder Logs

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 10:36 AM

 

...my ego tries to sabotage me...

 

Ego identity is quite capable of multiple personalities.   The ego (seen) is trying to sabotage "me" (also seen).   For not being made of anything but invention and speculation, the damned thing gets around, wearing so many costumes.  What is the shape of awareness?  Can we name any finite attribute?   When the attributes seem to stand up, where are they standing? 

 

 

I end up beating myself up about things as well and my ego pulls me down fast.

 

Who is the "I" and who is the "me?"  Thoughts, feelings, individual perceptions, are all fine, well and good, but are these all not secondary to awareness of?  So, are we these, or are we what we have always been, before we decided to make something of it?  Everything that can arise in awareness will fall away in awareness.   The only continuous being is awareness.  What we "make" of ourselves, we will not keep.  We will undoubtedly make just such a fictitious being, so can we find the unidentified being we have always been and gracefully let our bullshit stories of me, the person, go about its dramas and reside as the peace we are?  There will be no freedom as a persona.  The only freedom is from persona. 

 

"What we are looking for is what is looking."

~St. Francis of Assisi


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