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Surprise cubes growing in yard


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#41 Opendoors

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 02:48 PM

Ok ..one more question : I know they lose a little potency every flush, so if I do 2 flushes and than throw them out doors , is their potency like a third flush potency?

Edited by Opendoors, 24 June 2019 - 02:49 PM.


#42 Opendoors

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 03:06 PM

One of my very first successful grows (and among the most ironic) came from a horribly contaminated tray of grain that had three different colors of mold growing on it.

I took the tray outside and dumped it out off next to some bushes. It rained like hell the following afternoon. A few days later there were a dozen or so giant mushrooms growing out of the pile and the colorful contaminants were no longer visible (but probably still present).

Another early success was with a similarly-contaminated batch of jars that I put into a clear trashbag (edit: just the cakes from the jars, not the actual jars) and set out next to the trash for the next trip to the dump (we had no trash service living deep in the hollers of the Appalachians). A few days later I noticed a nice flush of large mushrooms growing inside the trash bag.

I'd been lovin' on 'em for weeks, fussing with them and taking care to accommodate whatever it seemed they needed but i guess all they really needed was for me to back off and let them do their thing like they've been doing without any help for for millions of years.

It's hard to beat the fresh air exchange rates you'll get growing outdoors, and just being outside sure seems to help achieve success so it appears to me that lots of fresh air is the key to success more so than humid air.

I actually read a trashbag tek a few months ago , I cant find it now , but it was by an experienced grower and it was kind of interesting
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#43 Microbe

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Posted 24 June 2019 - 05:04 PM

Ok ..one more question : I know they lose a little potency every flush, so if I do 2 flushes and than throw them out doors , is their potency like a third flush potency?

I have never observed any potency loss in later flushes. I believe it could be possible if the substrate lacks nitrogen or the nitrogen is depleted rapidly but it will be minimal and if you have a fruit body i assure you that they have the alkaloids. Psilocybin is a secondary metabolite made from basic nitrogen amides so i always make sure my subs are loaded with nitrogen. I cant prove that nitrogen is relative to potency but only that my 5th flush fruits will put your dick in the dirt just like the 1st flush.
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#44 Ferather

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 06:28 AM

Yield is directly related to nitrogen, in most cases. Wood loving mycelium will be actively seeking nitrogen sources (insects, yeast, bacteria, symbiosis with nitrogen fixating organisms), wood is low in nutrition (0.1% nitrogen).

Cubensis likes to have LOTS of nitrogen in their substrate (dung, which is a fertilizer), Cordyceps will infiltrate in insect directly, and in various cases, make the insect attach to a plant before it dies.

 

It's the reason why gourmet growers will add bran, soy hulls or other products to wood, to increase the nutritional value of the substrate, and increase yield.

Mycelium also acidify substrates, and produce waste products that should be removed from the media, if more yield is to be produced.


Edited by Ferather, 25 June 2019 - 06:29 AM.

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#45 TVCasualty

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 06:44 AM

Ok ..one more question : I know they lose a little potency every flush, so if I do 2 flushes and than throw them out doors , is their potency like a third flush potency?

 

 In my experience later flushes are more potent than earlier flushes, not less. At least that's my perception, which is purely anecdotal.


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#46 Ferather

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 07:52 AM

No that's completely feasible. It can depend on the substrate and also strain. If the substrate is composed mostly of complex nutrients that take time to decay, it's 100% possible to get more potent flushes later.

In addition, if soluble nutrients are added, the access to the added soluble nutrients opposed to complex ones is higher, and therefor higher a potency, or yield can be observed in flush 1.

 

Note, pH effects enzymes, as each enzyme-reactant will have a pH stability, various mycelium including Cubensis like a higher pH and calcium carbonate.

 

----

 

Calcium carbonate is used in various ways, firstly mycelium expel CO2, which reacts with calcium carbonate to produce soluble calcium bicarbonate.

The bicarbonate is absorbed and utilized, to produce enzymes, remove oxalates, and also as both a calcium and weak carbon source.

 

Here is Cubensis Cambodian, growing on calcium carbonate (CaCO3) chunks, and also a transfer to plain paper.

 

Cubensis-CaCO3-1.jpg   Cubensis-CaCO3-2.jpg

Cubensis-CaCO3-3.jpg   Cubensis-CaCO3-4.jpg

 

Here you can see it producing oxalates (yellow) directly in the chunks.

 

Cubensis-CaCO3-5.jpg   Cubensis-CaCO3-6.jpg

 

The above brown rice to WL-Tek (general, enriched paper).

 

Cubensis-CaCO3-7.jpg   Cubensis-CaCO3-8.jpg


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#47 roc

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 11:28 AM

My 2 cents on why my 3rd flush is more potent than the first.

I use straight horse shit no casing.

My observation is that the 3rd flush is a 1/4th of the quantity of fruits and always larger.

I'm thinking they actually get more nutrition due to there being less fruits consuming the nutrition.


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#48 Ferather

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 12:18 PM

I would guess the fast decaying resources have near all been spent by the time it's flush 3, I would then guess it's fruiting from the remaining complex resources.

Oysters don't fruit well from fast release starch, however on cellulose they are more robust and thick, which I think is due to glucose release rate.

 

Cellulose and starch are equally composed of glucose, so it's not that. Cellulose however is relatively non-reactive, slow to decay.

I would imagine the starch spawn, and fast decaying resources in dung produce smaller, but numerous pins sets.


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#49 Opendoors

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 12:21 PM

That's good to know , I read on another forum that each flush diminished in potency, though the fruit get bigger with each flush,I never actually tested it though( I always mix all flushes together)I just assumed that the first flush was the most potent....that's why I've almost always thrown my sub out after the 2nd or 3rd flush
Usually I do a 1:3 ratio(spawn:cmc,verm coir) but Sometimes when I just want to get some quick prints I'll do a 1:1 ratio (spamn:verm) and throw it out after the first flush

#50 Ferather

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 12:42 PM

That's pretty much the same reason (nutrients), vermiculite essentially contains no nutrients, it just holds water. Coco coir as explained before is like wood, it's nearly all carbon (cellulose, hemicellulose, phenols).

Most growers will do something like 50% coir, 50% spawn (example, 100g dry grain, 100g dry coir), the nutrients in the grain alter the medias total carbon-nitrogen ratio (like enriching).

 

Once the mycelium stops getting nutrients from the spawn, for one reason or another, it's left with the low nutrition coco coir, and water holding vermiculite.

Using the same amount of spawn (4%), enriched paper produced more yield than plain, as more of the carbon was spendable.


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#51 Opendoors

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 01:06 PM

That's pretty much the same reason (nutrients), vermiculite essentially contains no nutrients, it just holds water. Coco coir as explained before is like wood, it's nearly all carbon (cellulose, hemicellulose, phenols).
Most growers will do something like 50% coir, 50% spawn (example, 100g dry grain, 100g dry coir), the nutrients in the grain alter the medias total carbon-nitrogen ratio (like enriching).

Once the mycelium stops getting nutrients from the spawn, for one reason or another, it's left with the low nutrition coco coir, and water holding vermiculite.
Using the same amount of spawn (4%), enriched paper produced more yield than plain, as more of the carbon was spendable.

Thanks ...your knowledge is humbling
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#52 Ferather

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 01:39 PM

No problem, here is something to remember for the future. You can germinate spores using just sucrose + water, however it quickly stalls, due to limited-no nutrients other than carbon (glucose-fructose).

You can also germinate directly on brown rice (not suggested, you can't always see contamination, use agar), it shouldn't stall, and it can fruit (carbon + essential nutrients).

 

Grain-seeds are intentionally made from starch-essentials, the plant embryo will be secreting amylase (starch enzyme), and receive nutrients to grow.

 

Nutritional composition: Sugar, sucrose, white (no nitrogen, nearly all carbon) | Rice, brown, raw (starch + essentials).

 

Note: Brown rice and composed dung contain roughly the same amount of nitrogen.


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#53 Opendoors

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 02:30 PM

No problem, here is something to remember for the future. You can germinate spores using just sucrose + water, however it quickly stalls, due to limited-no nutrients other than carbon (glucose-fructose).
You can also germinate directly on brown rice (not suggested, you can't always see contamination, use agar), it shouldn't stall, and it can fruit (carbon + essential nutrients).

Grain-seeds are intentionally made from starch-essentials, the plant embryo will be secreting amylase (starch enzyme), and receive nutrients to grow.

Nutritional composition: Sugar, sucrose, white (no nitrogen, nearly all carbon) | Rice, brown, raw (starch + essentials).

Note: Brown rice and composed dung contain roughly the same amount of nitrogen.

I have germinated in karo and malt I have several Lc's that I've actually had to put in the fridge to purposely stall because they're several months old and the jars are so loaded that they have to be short on nutrients...other than that I've only used birdseed ( well except when I ordered rye bags off line... but I've always had bad luck with bags so I cant really count that)
When I use manure as sub I've always mixed in equal parts coir and verm totalling 3 qts of sub per one qt of spawn, I've had really good luck with that ,so I've never tried to equal the ratio out any ... did I read your post right when it said I should do 50/50 spawn sub?once again I read somewhere that I should have 3x sub to spawn ,so thats all I've ever done( except when I just do a 1:1 verm : spawn

#54 Opendoors

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 02:36 PM

Btw I apologize for all questions, but I was a member of another forum for several months,where they weren't quite as friendly, so it's a welcome difference to be able to recieve answers to a hobby I'm fairly new at and highly interested in
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#55 jkdeth

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 03:37 PM

You don't have to do 1:1. I do that on the smallest tubs, but usually go 1:2 have a couple now at 1:4

I use high rates to colonize fast for prints. For yield I'd go 1:3 or 4.
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#56 Opendoors

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 04:50 PM

You don't have to do 1:1. I do that on the smallest tubs, but usually go 1:2 have a couple now at 1:4

I use high rates to colonize fast for prints. For yield I'd go 1:3 or 4.

Yea that's what I do I like the 1:3 for several flushes or the 1:1 for quick prints

#57 Opendoors

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 04:53 PM

I was also stuck on 64 qt monotubs for awhile but I just recently switched to 6qt monos and I'm hooked on them now .... just for the stealth

#58 jkdeth

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 05:10 PM

I stayed away from big monos, cause that just seemed like too much risk. I'm going to run a 15 quart because I have more spawn than I need, but I'll mostly continue smaller ones.
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#59 Moonless

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Posted 25 June 2019 - 08:52 PM

Surprise cubes growing in yard!

Patch.JPG


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#60 Ferather

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 08:27 AM

@ Moonless, Very nice outdoor Cubensis.

 

@ Opendoors, 1:1 is optional, but has a higher speed, also note I'm using the weight system, most people with be using volume such as cups, and 1:1 cups.

100g of dry paper, when hydrated, needs about 1 liter to contain it, when I say 50-50 I mean by dry weight, 100g:100g.

 

The carbon-to-nitrogen ratio, and nutrional composition is measured by weight, usually when dry.

 

====

 

https://mycotopia.ne...dpost&p=1405546 -- Skip to the rough Carbon to Nitrogen guide.

 

tab1-2k10-92-101.gif

 

http://www.fftc.agne.../bc53004t11.jpg


Edited by Ferather, 26 June 2019 - 09:10 AM.

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