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Contamination recovery?


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Poll: The whole truth and nothing but the truth on contamination recovery!

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Have you successfully averted a contamination and not had it take over?

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What method did you use?

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#1 roc

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 08:22 PM

OK so I've been at this for a long time and I have to be truthful and say it has been an epic fail every time I tried to overcome a contamination.
 



#2 coorsmikey

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 08:40 PM

I approved your post Roc! (don't know I had to, but it needed approval) And I voted for (maybe we edit this in) Other.....Left it the F alone. That has been my best experience to let the Myc fight it out to win. Doesn't always work, but that is the best method out of the choices.


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#3 jkdeth

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 09:19 PM

I can't answer as worded. I've successfully ignored contamination and it didn't take over. I've had a couple subs/cakes that went to shit fast. There was no thought of averting or time to.

90 percent of the contamination I've seen has either been in grain spawn, or spent subs. Subs get tossed cause they've already produced.

I have grown quite a bit trich to see what happens. Always ends up with a big cleanup.

That being said. I recently spawned a tub (actually 3) with contaminated grain. To sterilized non nutritive substrate. The one that's fruiting has two bits of oats with trich spores, never spread further than that.

I have this completely insane notion that trichoderma stress may increase potency.
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#4 roc

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 10:08 PM

My biggest fail has been trich on a bulk tray.

 

It doesn't matter what i have done it always wins and I lose!

 

I had a first flush Chitwan tray straight shit no casing and I thought I'm going to slay this beast!

I caught it early and first used 3% Hydrogen-peroxide straight from the bottle and used a syringe to apply and boil / bubble that green and then followed up with a swab of alcohol to the area the next morning. I then filled and birthed the tray like a big ass cake and thought that that beautiful virgin surface would yield a nice flush if nothing else. 3 days later I see the shit starting to pop through. I went ahead and took a bread knife and thought I'd cut the shit out and save the 2 ends. After cutting I see that it went from a 2 inch spot to a 3-4 inch all the way through a 4 inch think substrate.

 

It's almost like the peroxide and alcohol "chased" it from the top to the bottom.

Being the hard head fuck that I am I took one end and tossed it outside in a flower pot of soil so we'll see what happens.

The closest thing to a trich recovery for me has been tossing it in the graveyard and letting Mother nature deal with it. I've gotten fruit this away multiple times.

 

When it comes to spawn and a little spot here and there I've seen mycellium overtake the contam and win out but this was still by Mother Nature doing her thing.

 

I'm glad it is rare that I get trich to begin with but I'm open to other experiences in beating the green!



#5 jkdeth

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Posted 19 June 2019 - 10:52 PM

Its to prevent than treat. Early green means it most likely started in the spawn.

Green is sporulation, its been growing a bit before then.

If you seldom get it, just double check yourself.

Some other info.

Lots of folks use that straight hpoo, its so nutritious its a great breeding ground for trich.

I'd suggest at least a 50% cut with about anything. Coir, verm or both. Potting soil, straw. Any of those or a combination.

Pastuerization is key. At least 4 hours at temp. Some people will go with sterilization, really risky with straight hpoo. And it negates the benefits of pastuerization.

High spawn rate. 1:1 to 1:2. Speeds colonization.

Check your ph, easiest is to boost your hydration water to 8.0 to 8.5

Keeps temps 75 or below.

Increases ph and reducing temps won't guarantee no trich, just makes conditions a lot less favorable, helping the cube mycelium win the race.

Nothing beats clean spawn. Clean spawn means agar work. Even the best spore solution is just clean enough.

Killing trich doesn't happen. Aggressive mycelium can contain it. You can cover the green with moist salt to try and contain sporulation. But remember you can't see dispersed trich spores. When you see green, that's 100s of thousands of spores disturbing at all is throwing lots of spores into the environment.

Now commercial grows don't toss an entire gr8 o w because trich shows up. But they also have the ability to steam the entire room after the flush.

Get a hepa air purifier or two. Find a way to separate the grow area from the other stages.

Use care spawning. Be as sanitary as possible and wear gloves.
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#6 roc

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 11:30 AM

jk I'm going to take you advice and go with a coir mix!
I think you nailed it because of twice in a row here and only one tray in the same grow chamber and each grow was a different strain.

I previously could go for 6 months with out a contamination so I think my other conditions and practices are correct.



#7 Foster

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Posted 20 June 2019 - 10:40 PM

I've delayed a total visible takeover long enough to get a couple flushes using salt.  But what lies beneath? Hah yeah, trich engulfing the inner sub.

Tried most all the methods. (None truly successful).

Cutting away , Bleach/water dunking, Hydrated Lime/ water dunk.

Really just not much you can do once the nasties are in there.

Its just so damn hard to give up on a tray or jars / cakes you've put the time and effort in.

I'd like to say " I'll just throw it out next time", but that's probably not true, I'll just keep :deadhorse:


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#8 MycoBabe

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Posted 30 June 2019 - 02:44 AM

Do you sterilize or pasteurize your substantiate. Bc that makes a huge huge difference.

#9 roc

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Posted 30 June 2019 - 10:20 PM

Do you sterilize or pasteurize your substantiate. Bc that makes a huge huge difference.

I pasteurize my favorite substrate which is horse shit, nice golden nuggets from grass fed quarter horses that are given a few oats on occasion.

 

Yes you are correct that it makes a huge difference!



#10 CatsAndBats

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 08:16 AM

jk I'm going to take you advice and go with a coir mix!
I think you nailed it because of twice in a row here and only one tray in the same grow chamber and each grow was a different strain.

I previously could go for 6 months with out a contamination so I think my other conditions and practices are correct.

 

 

I love this coir only grow by jammer:

 

https://mycotopia.ne...lk-invitro-bag/

 

 

Now as far as recovering subs, molds, there's no point in trying to save them IMHO (unless it's cobweb which is easily dealt with with a light h2o2 spraying), put them out far away from your space and just grab what fruits and then toss or bury, ya never know what might pop up.

 

Now as far as mold prevention, jk had a lot of good points that I agree with. There's a couple things that I can add.

 

Most fungi that we deal with prefer slightly acidic conditions, as do most molds, that's why old coffee and citrus fruit mold out first. As cube myc colonizes and fruits it acidifies the substrate, so when I rehydrate a colony I use basefied h2o, to the tune of 8pH. I keep a gallon of it around for soaks, and a spray bottle of it handy for my hoog grows, the hoogs do a great job of defending itself, but I still spray the colony as my last colony fruited for ten months. 

 

https://mycotopia.ne...nvexa-grow-log/

 

Oh and if one is doing any kind of soak, be it cakes or monos or whatever, keep the water ice cold. A warm soak is basically an anaerobic bacteria soup making machine, no bueno.

 

Just say no to bleach and h2o2 soaks. Would you undergo chemotherapy because you got the flu? Be kind to your colonies. 

 

Prevention is the best medicine. Long pasteurization is one of the best prevention techniques. The longer one pasteurizes the longer the thermophillic bacteria can do their thing and essentially occupy one's substrate so that mezophillic contaminants will have less of a chance to penetrate.

 

tv sums it up nicely:

 

I like to hold a sub at between 165-175 degrees F for at least 5 hours (I try to keep it closer to 175). Then I leave it in my semi-insulated pasteurizer rig to cool off as slowly as possible. It usually takes 14-16 hours to cool down enough for me to spawn it. That equates to spending roughly 9 or 10 hours at pasteurization temperatures and fresh, bright yellow straw comes out looking like it's been composting for 3 months and is FAR more resistant to contamination than the same recipe pasteurized for a couple of hours or so. It also seems to produce higher potency fruits than minimally-pasteurized straw.

My theory about why it make the mushrooms more potent is that the extended time allows many more thermophiles to grow in the sub, which the mycelium later consumes as food (the larger thermophile population is also the reason behind its increased contamination resistance IMO). Anyway, it'd be more accurate to say the potency achieved is closer to the maximum genetic potential of the strain (since we can't really boost potency beyond that) and I suspect it happens because a vast population of dormant thermophilic organisms contains more nutrients than plain straw plus much of the work of breaking down the cellulose has been achieved in the pasteurizer so the mushroom mycelium doesn't have to expend that energy and can focus (so to speak) on colonization speed and fruitbody formation.

 

 

From here:

 

https://mycotopia.ne...s/#entry1094316

 

 

 

 

 

 

   


Edited by CatsAndBats, 01 July 2019 - 08:17 AM.

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