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what are the pros and cons of using straw as a sub?


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#41 CatsAndBats

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 05:15 PM

*dueling banjos starts playing
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#42 roc

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 05:32 PM

*dueling banjos starts playing

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#43 peacefrog

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Posted 26 June 2019 - 05:38 PM

Haha. LMAO.

Pj,

That makes perfect sense. I see what you are saying. I have never steamed pasteurized personally so I have no experience with that.

Are you able to monitor your internal temps while steaming? Using like a meat thermometer or some form of a digital one that can withstand the heat and steam?

Just an idea to see how long it actually takes to get the ideal pasteurization temps in your setup.

Again good vibes my friend.
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#44 PJammer24

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 03:02 PM

Haha. LMAO.

Pj,

That makes perfect sense. I see what you are saying. I have never steamed pasteurized personally so I have no experience with that.

Are you able to monitor your internal temps while steaming? Using like a meat thermometer or some form of a digital one that can withstand the heat and steam?

Just an idea to see how long it actually takes to get the ideal pasteurization temps in your setup.

Again good vibes my friend.

 

 

I run a meat thermometer into the bag and don't start timing until it reaches temp.. I actually wait until it hits 160F these days because I have had issues in the past at lower temps... I tried to do it around 140F when I first started and I had issues... So now I wait for it to hit 160F....

 

I use a PID to regulate the temp... So the PID regulates the overall temp of the unit at 170F and I start timing when the meat thermometers that are actually in the bag hit 160F...

 

I haven't done it on top of my stove in almost a decade so that could easily be the difference maker...


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#45 PJammer24

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 03:06 PM

I'm going to guess but I believe that over 90% of oysters are still grown on wheat straw in hanging plastic tubes and have been for decades.

 

Pasteurize the straw, spawn it and stuff it in bags.

Yes it's that simple!

 

Growing up in SW Kansas I've bucked and stacked my share of straw bales and I can assure you that it gets no special treatment.

 

Let's not complicate things.

 

Maybe some of the peeps having trouble here don't know the difference between straw and alfalfa and their problems are related to growing on alfalfa.

PJ was pleasant but I find it fucking insulting for someone to ask if I was sure it was straw and not alfalfa!

 

 

It may be that easy... BUT... I still maintain that in the past when I have not soaked the straw over night, i have ended up with random sprouts in my substrate... It happened more than once and I have been sure to soak over night ever since... Perhaps, there was another factor in play that I was not aware of but I am still amazed that nobody has had the sprouting issues that I have had with straw.



#46 CatsAndBats

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 03:51 PM

trumpet mushroom straw.jpg

 

Well I'm trying the all straw grow again. I didn't have any cube spawn ready (more like I didn't know if any was ready as I shook all my jars the day before) so I went with two quarts of royal trumpet spawn pleurotus eryngii (?) that I harvested from a store bought culture.

 

I used peacefrog's submerged method about 3x because I kept getting too tired to drain it properly. I eyeballed pickling lime and I threw a touch of magnesium salt in out of habit.

 

My guess is that it'll make the run in about 10 days as oyster myc runs fast. Plus we'll see if I executed properly.

 

I guess that I'll case it with straight coir, just to keep the moisture right (I've never cased oysters before).

 

Thoughts?


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#47 jkdeth

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 04:18 PM

Just spawned some cubes to a mix of the substrate I made up and straw. Due a "Cue" layer with straight substrate mix. Very thin, but enough so no straw visible from the top. About 1:2.5 spawn rate. Made it all the 15 quart wanted without getting to deep.
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#48 roc

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 05:38 PM

 

I'm going to guess but I believe that over 90% of oysters are still grown on wheat straw in hanging plastic tubes and have been for decades.

 

Pasteurize the straw, spawn it and stuff it in bags.

Yes it's that simple!

 

Growing up in SW Kansas I've bucked and stacked my share of straw bales and I can assure you that it gets no special treatment.

 

Let's not complicate things.

 

Maybe some of the peeps having trouble here don't know the difference between straw and alfalfa and their problems are related to growing on alfalfa.

PJ was pleasant but I find it fucking insulting for someone to ask if I was sure it was straw and not alfalfa!

 

 

It may be that easy... BUT... I still maintain that in the past when I have not soaked the straw over night, i have ended up with random sprouts in my substrate... It happened more than once and I have been sure to soak over night ever since... Perhaps, there was another factor in play that I was not aware of but I am still amazed that nobody has had the sprouting issues that I have had with straw.

 

Just a thought...

Could it be the spawn ration and how fast it colonizes?

There is no doubt that straw is loaded with other seeds especially wild grasses and weeds from the field.

If the seeds have enough time to sprout then they beat the spawn out on the race!

In the oyster tube method they may sprout but are contained and never seen like a tray or basket grow.


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#49 CatsAndBats

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Posted 27 June 2019 - 06:17 PM

 

 

I'm going to guess but I believe that over 90% of oysters are still grown on wheat straw in hanging plastic tubes and have been for decades.

 

Pasteurize the straw, spawn it and stuff it in bags.

Yes it's that simple!

 

Growing up in SW Kansas I've bucked and stacked my share of straw bales and I can assure you that it gets no special treatment.

 

Let's not complicate things.

 

Maybe some of the peeps having trouble here don't know the difference between straw and alfalfa and their problems are related to growing on alfalfa.

PJ was pleasant but I find it fucking insulting for someone to ask if I was sure it was straw and not alfalfa!

 

 

It may be that easy... BUT... I still maintain that in the past when I have not soaked the straw over night, i have ended up with random sprouts in my substrate... It happened more than once and I have been sure to soak over night ever since... Perhaps, there was another factor in play that I was not aware of but I am still amazed that nobody has had the sprouting issues that I have had with straw.

 

Just a thought...

Could it be the spawn ration and how fast it colonizes?

There is no doubt that straw is loaded with other seeds especially wild grasses and weeds from the field.

If the seeds have enough time to sprout then they beat the spawn out on the race!

In the oyster tube method they may sprout but are contained and never seen like a tray or basket grow.

 

 

I always thought that high temps would halt/terminate germination of seeds, but when I do my initial soak of oats for grain spawn, I pour boiling h2o over them in a cooler for an hour and if I don't dry them in time, they sprout! 

 

That said, I've never had anything sprout after pasteurization, but I remember seeing sprouts in some of eat's pics (I am the mycotopia link/thread finder :tongue:):

 

 

gallery_5996_41_1384987883_239495.jpg  


Edited by CatsAndBats, 27 June 2019 - 06:19 PM.

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#50 peacefrog

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Posted 29 June 2019 - 04:26 AM

Wow that’s crazy. Like I said, I have never seen sprouts before with straw personally.

PJ,
That might be the difference as well. Like I said I haven’t steamed pasteurized before, so I would have to try first hand to see if it makes a difference verses the old pillow case tek, but it seems like 160 is 160. As long as all parts of the substrate are consistently at pasteurization temps for at least an hour, it should be fine. Just my thought process. I will have to try steam pasteurization sometime.

But I still always start my time at 140 and try not to go above 160. But of course it will happen on a stove top. I have I had it get up to 180 before, but got it back down very quickly and all was fine.

As far as spawning heavy goes, I did a test many years ago to see how long straw would last on its own before taming. I pasteurized some and placed all into an non-spawned tub. It took 13 days before I saw hints of the green monster kicking in. I of course tossed it outside and dug through the straw. I could not detect any contamination in the center, but there were satellite colonies throughout the top and sides of the substrate. And nothing was green yet.

My conclusion was that I probably would have 10-12 days to beat contamination with straw. So I really started spawning very heavy. As long as I have full colonization by the 10th-12th day max, I will not have any issues as long as I don’t screw something up lol.

My 2 cents.
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#51 CatsAndBats

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Posted 29 June 2019 - 10:57 AM

post-147940-0-57483100-1561823553.jpg

 

 

 

 

Well, I guess my estimate of 10 days was incorrect. It's been 3 days and it's at ~85-90%.

 

When it's done, I'll crack it open and clean out all that spare straw on the sides. Then apply a coir casing. Should be fun!

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  • trumpet mushroom straw3.jpg

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#52 peacefrog

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Posted 29 June 2019 - 12:00 PM

Looks very healthy!
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#53 CatsAndBats

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Posted 29 June 2019 - 03:51 PM

Looks very healthy!

 

The original myc came from store bought fruits, I don't think that I ever fruited this species. I keep seeing "Oss & Oeric" style grows online for mass production. Not sure how it'll perform in this tub. My hope is that a thick casing will afford me to leave the lid off, open air, for better fruit development. 

 

gourmetmushroom.jpeg


Edited by CatsAndBats, 29 June 2019 - 03:52 PM.

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#54 peacefrog

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Posted 30 June 2019 - 05:27 PM

King oysters, nice. I have yet to grow or eat them. I heard they were very tasty though.

Good job on getting that store bought fruit to clone. Man I have tried many many times to get mycelial growth from tissue of store bought fruits. I have yet to get anything other than contamination.

That looks like damn aggressive mycelium bro! Perhaps you should start another epic thread?
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#55 CatsAndBats

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Posted 30 June 2019 - 06:16 PM

King oysters, nice. I have yet to grow or eat them. I heard they were very tasty though.

Good job on getting that store bought fruit to clone. Man I have tried many many times to get mycelial growth from tissue of store bought fruits. I have yet to get anything other than contamination.

That looks like damn aggressive mycelium bro! Perhaps you should start another epic thread?

 

Really?! I've cloned once from the wild, and a couple time from store bought cultures. I'm closer than you are to where most American mush are grown though. So yours probably have much larger bacterial lodes.

 

They taste great.

 

Idk, I think I might have enough threads! :biggrin: I'm sure that it could go on my agar or my oyster thread/s. Thanks man, it means a lot coming from one of my main mentors. I am proud of all the species that I've fruited. I owe it all to y'all. :biggrin:


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#56 peacefrog

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Posted 01 July 2019 - 05:56 AM

One can never have too many killer threads IMHO!

I love doing them personally, but I’m on a hiatus on cultivation right now. But I will pick it back up again lol.
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#57 CatsAndBats

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Posted 04 July 2019 - 01:05 PM

King oysters, nice. I have yet to grow or eat them. I heard they were very tasty though.

Good job on getting that store bought fruit to clone. Man I have tried many many times to get mycelial growth from tissue of store bought fruits. I have yet to get anything other than contamination.

That looks like damn aggressive mycelium bro! Perhaps you should start another epic thread?

 

 

Ask and you shall receive!

 

https://mycotopia.ne...t-grow-or-bust/


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