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drying and long-term storage protocol


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#101 TVCasualty

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 09:01 AM


Yeah, from what I have seen so far, the manufacturers and sellers of these extracts must be really proud of them because they are far too expensive. I could tell a big difference in how I felt while on your honey (not your "honey" but your honey). I do not know if it is the Ginkgo or not but the experience felt much better than the tea I made a few times. I am definitely sticking with the honey, I just need to work on potency and maybe take a week off of the SSRI and see if I can tell a difference. Any increase in experience at all should confirm that it is the SSRI.

 

 

 

8e29fa9b4d750c38f150b75c57d82b2b.jpg

 

 

When Cheerios came out with that ad campaign people in the know started sending me images like that for a while as a way of telling me about how their weekend went, lol.

 

 

I don't know much about how SSRIs work (and neither do Doctors, interestingly enough) but from what I've read skipping them for a while might not be advisable and since it takes a while for their efficacy to build up it might also take a while for it to stop affecting cross-tolerance (maybe longer than a week). But I really have no idea.


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#102 Jinroh

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 11:27 AM

 


Yeah, from what I have seen so far, the manufacturers and sellers of these extracts must be really proud of them because they are far too expensive. I could tell a big difference in how I felt while on your honey (not your "honey" but your honey). I do not know if it is the Ginkgo or not but the experience felt much better than the tea I made a few times. I am definitely sticking with the honey, I just need to work on potency and maybe take a week off of the SSRI and see if I can tell a difference. Any increase in experience at all should confirm that it is the SSRI.

 

When Cheerios came out with that ad campaign people in the know started sending me images like that for a while as a way of telling me about how their weekend went, lol.

 

 

I don't know much about how SSRIs work (and neither do Doctors, interestingly enough) but from what I've read skipping them for a while might not be advisable and since it takes a while for their efficacy to build up it might also take a while for it to stop affecting cross-tolerance (maybe longer than a week). But I really have no idea.

 

You are correct. My experience has been 6 to 8 weeks for the SSRI to become fully effective. I was thinking it might take longer than a week off of it to start getting it out of my system. As far as the side effects of going off of them, some people can experience seizures if they are predisposed which I am not. Other than that, I don't know about any other effects. I do not plan on being on this med the rest of my life. My goal is to get the benefit and then get off of it. The explanation my doctor gave me was this med helps correct chemical imbalances in the brain and once that happens there is no further need for it.


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#103 ilikethings

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 05:01 PM

CURRENT PROTOCOL

           As fruits are harvested, they are placed on pan in front of box fan until a sufficient quantity amasses to fill a dehydrator tray.  At times, there will be enough to fill a tray with a single flush and put the fresh fruits directly into the dehydrator for 3 – 4.5hrs until cracker dry.  Then place in open bag that is stored in a sealed container.  That container also contains a tray of damp rid.  I think of this set up as being analogous to a humidor for cigars.  Upon obtaining the desired long-term storage quantity, the fruits are moved from open bags to vacuum sealed bags.  You may want to consider a high mil thickness bag as several have punctured over time from pointy stems.

 

Regarding SSRIs: I'd encourage substantial research first.  The main rules I understand are (1) not for ppl with Bi-polar, (2) ppl with a strong family history of schizophrenia, and (3) do not mix with MAOI's, and (4) ofcourse do not mix with any other active compound.  As noted up in thread, take your time, do your research, and play it safe.  It's sort of like firing a gun, once you dose, you can't take that bullet back.    


Edited by ilikethings, 05 October 2019 - 05:16 PM.

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#104 Jinroh

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 05:20 PM

 

CURRENT PROTOCOL

           As fruits are harvested, they are placed on pan in front of box fan until a sufficient quantity amasses to fill a dehydrator tray.  At times, I will have enough to fill a tray with a single flush and put the fresh fruits directly into the dehydrator for 3 – 4.5hrs until cracker dry.  Then place in open bag that is stored in a sealed container.  That container also contains a tray of damp rid.  I think of this set up as being analogous to a humidor for cigars.  Upon obtaining the desired long-term storage quantity, the fruits are moved from open bags to vacuum sealed bags.  You may want to consider a high mil thickness bag as I have had several puncture over time from pointy stems.

 

Regarding SSRIs: I'd encourage substantial research first.  The main rules I understand are (1) not for ppl with Bi-polar, strong family history of schizophrenia, (2) do not mix with MAOI's.  As noted up in thread, take your time, do your research, and play it safe.  It's sort of like firing a gun, once you dose, you can't take that bullet back.    

 

My drying protocol pretty much follows yours now. I have not had a large enough amount to make it to vacuum bags yet, but that is my plan once I do.

 

As far as my SSRI is concerned, I am taking it for depression. I have no family history of any mental disorders, I do not have PTSD nor have I ever had thoughts of suicide. My depression is related to combat but it is due to my injuries and limitations I now have in life. Seeking other natural treatments rather than man-made chemicals is why I am on this site in the first place. I do not plan on being on an SSRI long term. My goal is not to have to be on them at all and mother nature might be the solution. If I have to go off of the SSRI completely to test the results then I have no problem doing so.


Edited by Jinroh, 05 October 2019 - 05:22 PM.

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#105 ilikethings

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 08:57 PM

Hi Jinroh.  Sorry to hear about your injuries.  I don't have a position on SSRIs but from what I understand, they are barely more effective than placebo--and many tests found it it to be only as effective as placebo.  I'm hope you find what your looking for.  I think it will be vets that play a key role in changing the law and or at least the cultural perspective on the psychedelic experience.  The fellow (Eric Osborne) that started the first publicly-open psilocybin retreat in Jamaica (where psilocybin is legal to use and possess) would have served many years in prison (in Ohio or Kentucky) but for the vets that showed up in the court room to support him. 

 

If it were not for the "manufacture" laws, there would not be a need for ppl to devise long-term storage protocols.  It sure seems that there is an incentive for ppl to grow a personal lifetime supply and store it (while contemporaneously disposing of the growing equipment) bc the legal penalties are lighter for merely possession than "manufacturing."  The idea is that you are open to greater criminal penalties while growing so grow all you need for life as fast as you can and then store it and dispose of the growing tools. 


Edited by ilikethings, 05 October 2019 - 08:59 PM.

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#106 Jinroh

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 09:38 PM

Hi Jinroh.  Sorry to hear about your injuries.  I don't have a position on SSRIs but from what I understand, they are barely more effective than placebo--and many tests found it it to be only as effective as placebo.  I'm hope you find what your looking for.  I think it will be vets that play a key role in changing the law and or at least the cultural perspective on the psychedelic experience.  The fellow (Eric Osborne) that started the first publicly-open psilocybin retreat in Jamaica (where psilocybin is legal to use and possess) would have served many years in prison (in Ohio or Kentucky) but for the vets that showed up in the court room to support him. 

 

If it were not for the "manufacture" laws, there would not be a need for ppl to devise long-term storage protocols.  It sure seems that there is an incentive for ppl to grow a personal lifetime supply and store it (while contemporaneously disposing of the growing equipment) bc the legal penalties are lighter for merely possession than "manufacturing."  The idea is that you are open to greater criminal penalties while growing so grow all you need for life as fast as you can and then store it and dispose of the growing tools. 

I appreciate the sentiment, I am lucky I have had good support over the years. SSRI's may be a placebo... it is difficult for me to answer that. What I can say is that I tried three different types over the past year (8 weeks per med). The first two had no effect on me and the third did help somewhat. So I was aware at some point if I felt better or not. I know a lot of vets who use pot medically and legally and also shrooms (on the down-low). My injuries were caused by a land mine during Operation Desert Storm, although severe, happened when I was in my 20's. I was strong and young and held up well and healed well. But I was told I would eventually have issues once I was in my 50's and 60's which turned out to be the case. I spent a few years taking opioids and got tired of being doped up all the time and not to mention what I knew was happening to me internally because of it. So one day I just quit them... I felt like shit for a week and it was over. Now I deal with a lot of pain but I would rather have pain than go back to what I was. So my depression is rooted in my pain and not being able to work anymore. Evidently I had been suffering for a long time without even realizing it was depression. Depression is a sneaky thing. Many people suffer for years not knowing the cause of their symptoms when they check out fine physically. My journey to discover I had depression took two years of CT scans and all manner of testing to try and determine what was causing my cognitive and coordination problems. Symptoms can be off the wall and can be confused with other conditions. My depression caused everything from severe body aches, coordination and concentration problems, insomnia, moodiness, reclusiveness... and many more off the wall things. I believe I have lost at least two long term relationships because of depression over the years.

 

I have no intention of growing a lifetime supply and then get rid of my grow supplies. I have discovered that I enjoy the growing process and I am growing edibles as well as medicinal. I have no fear of the law because no one will ever know about it except this forum. The law can't get what it does not know about. Besides, I believe there has to be probable cause before they start busting down doors. This endeavor is top secret and is just for me and my health and no one else. It will stay that way unless laws change.


Edited by Jinroh, 05 October 2019 - 09:43 PM.

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#107 ilikethings

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 10:42 PM

yes I empathize with you Jinroh.  To be clear though, I am not a veteran.  I was being a bit facetious with regard to my end statement on the law and lifetime supply--sort of taking the argument to its absurd maximum.  legal reforms are nonetheless needed.  I agree. the day to day fun of the hobby comes from the interaction with the overall process of interacting with a thing that is neither a plant nor an animal.  I too am exploring non-psilo grows such as garden giants for soil remediation purposes.

 

Long term storage will remain a key issue for most ppl in this hobby.  And I suspect the storage issue crosses over to the non-psilo medicinals as well. 

 

  Godspeed Jinroh! 


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#108 Jinroh

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 10:53 PM

yes I empathize with you Jinroh.  To be clear though, I am not a veteran.  I was being a bit facetious with regard to my end statement on the law and lifetime supply--sort of taking the argument to its absurd maximum.  legal reforms are nonetheless needed.  I agree. the day to day fun of the hobby comes from the interaction with the overall process of interacting with a thing that is neither a plant nor an animal.  I too am exploring non-psilo grows such as garden giants for soil remediation purposes.

 

Long term storage will remain a key issue for most ppl in this hobby.  And I suspect the storage issue crosses over to the non-psilo medicinals as well. 

 

  Godspeed Jinroh! 

Well said! I agree! As far as edibles go I am starting with blue oysters. I plan to dehydrate them as well. They have a rich flavor once rehydrated after they have been dried. I will still need long term storage with vacuum bags since the fresh shelf life of most shrooms is only a few days before they start getting dank. I have the food saver machine and rolls of bags that are cut to length.



#109 Boorick76

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 11:05 AM

I did some experimentation with the same harvest, it was a ms grow, which could effect the outcome.
I used the box and fan method with a few and put the rest in a one temp dehydrator. Last weekend I tried the box batch- great results. Last night I tried the dehydrator batch- great results. No recognizable differences.
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#110 Jinroh

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 02:34 PM

I did some experimentation with the same harvest, it was a ms grow, which could effect the outcome.
I used the box and fan method with a few and put the rest in a one temp dehydrator. Last weekend I tried the box batch- great results. Last night I tried the dehydrator batch- great results. No recognizable differences.

Did you use the hot air in the dehydrator or just cool air? I could be wrong but all of my research indicates most consumer-grade dehydrators with and without adjustable heat temp settings all max out around 150F or else the meat or fruit would start to cook which is to be avoided... and it takes twice that temp to start adversely affecting the actives. But I could have been reading BS.

My dehydrator is a commercial one with more heat and air options but I never have it set over 150F. TVcasualtiy's honey recipe also makes a point to ensure the honey temp does not go over 150F, so that must be the standard. You should try that honey recipe ASAP, you won't prepare your fruits any other way after trying that!


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#111 ilikethings

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 03:54 PM

@Boorick76, That's cool you tried "both" methods but I actually only mentioned the box fan and tray as a sort of limbo/purgatory for fruits pending further harvests to fill dehydrator.  That said, prior to purchasing the ~$60 dehydrator at wally world, I did use the box fan + direct sunlight to dry fruits and it was effective for very small personal use to be used within a year.  The honey thing is intriguing.  I've been aware of it for years but have always reflexively avoided storage teks involving liquids.  No good reason, just saying. 

 

I'm hoping to work with some non-gelatin capsules soon and post to this thread.  The gel caps work well--especially when stored with damp rid.  the thing with gel caps is that the onset time to take effect is noticeably longer.  If you were to eat 4g powdered with juice it will take effect (such that you feel like you should lay down on bed with in 30 min.  but with gel caps, it seems to add an extra 20-30mins as a result of the stomach acid needing to break down the capsule.)  And anyone who has had gelcap based stuff around knows that they get wonky upon encountering high humidity/moisture.  That said, I think they will last for years if kept in a bottle with a desiccant pack (like supplements from a place like GNC) or a "fruit storage box" containing a damp rid tray--as described in my original post--but without the sock.  I now just keep a little black tray with ~1cup of damp rid in box with fruits pending consumption or vacuum packaging. 

 

I'll be looking into Hypromellose capsules soon (which are 300x more moisture resistant than gelcaps--according to some other person here in the forums).  The main thing with capsules is the hardware to make them.  You can easily and cheaply make a little jig out of plywood and use a properly sized drill bit to pack the capsules but it is very tedious.  There are some decent looking multicap loaders coming out of china that do 100+ caps at a time but the kits will run you ~$200+. 

 

P.S. I cant say for certain but I think my non-adjustable presto dehydrator operates at a max of 165F.


Edited by ilikethings, 06 October 2019 - 04:02 PM.

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#112 Jinroh

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 06:56 PM

ilikethings;

 

I'll be looking into Hypromellose capsules soon (which are 300x more moisture resistant than gelcaps--according to some other person here in the forums).  The main thing with capsules is the hardware to make them.  You can easily and cheaply make a little jig out of plywood and use a properly sized drill bit to pack the capsules but it is very tedious.  There are some decent looking multicap loaders coming out of china that do 100+ caps at a time but the kits will run you ~$200+. 

 

P.S. I cant say for certain but I think my non-adjustable presto dehydrator operates at a max of 165F.

 

That person was me. I got that information directly from the veg based capsule manufacturer. Also, a little pharmaceutical grade magnesium oxide powder in with the capsule contents will also act as a desiccant. That is a little trick pharmaceutical companies use with oxidation prone medications (in which most actually are). I brought this up when I was researching psilocybin crystal extraction methods which I plan to try eventually. The procedure is very simple, you just need a good source of 190 to 200 proof grain alcohol which is not sold in some states, but I found a source on eBay that will ship to my state where it is not sold (evidently it is legal for me to buy however my state sells all the hard liquor in my state and does not sell that). I think there are three states they cannot ship to and mine is not one of them. It is not cheap though, 100 bucks a gallon.

 

I bought this 100 capsule filling kit on Amazon for 19 bucks. It works pretty good but there is definitely a learning curve to keep from making a mess. The #0 size is as big a capsule as I could find without turning to horse pills. LOL

 

https://www.amazon.c...0?ie=UTF8&psc=1


Edited by Jinroh, 06 October 2019 - 07:00 PM.

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#113 Jinroh

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Posted 06 October 2019 - 07:11 PM

The honey thing is intriguing.  I've been aware of it for years but have always reflexively avoided storage teks involving liquids.  No good reason, just saying.

 

Keep in mind, honey barely qualifies as being a liquid. It is also antibiotic in nature and never goes bad, never requires refrigeration and lasts (literally) forever if not overheated to the point of condensation. Knowing a fair amount about honey, I did not hesitate trying the recipe.

 

3000-year-old honey was found in the pyramids and was still perfectly edible.

 

https://www.national...e-pyramids.aspx



#114 Boorick76

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Posted 07 October 2019 - 09:22 AM

I did some experimentation with the same harvest, it was a ms grow, which could effect the outcome.
I used the box and fan method with a few and put the rest in a one temp dehydrator. Last weekend I tried the box batch- great results. Last night I tried the dehydrator batch- great results. No recognizable differences.

Did you use the hot air in the dehydrator or just cool air? I could be wrong but all of my research indicates most consumer-grade dehydrators with and without adjustable heat temp settings all max out around 150F or else the meat or fruit would start to cook which is to be avoided... and it takes twice that temp to start adversely affecting the actives. But I could have been reading BS.
My dehydrator is a commercial one with more heat and air options but I never have it set over 150F. TVcasualtiy's honey recipe also makes a point to ensure the honey temp does not go over 150F, so that must be the standard. You should try that honey recipe ASAP, you won't prepare your fruits any other way after trying that!
I'm not sure how hot my dehydrator gets, but it is a hot air model (presto). I will definitely try the honey. It's a matter of time for me. I've been keeping up your trials. Thanks for the info.
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#115 ilikethings

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Posted 10 October 2019 - 01:27 AM

 

The honey thing is intriguing.  I've been aware of it for years but have always reflexively avoided storage teks involving liquids.  No good reason, just saying.

 

Keep in mind, honey barely qualifies as being a liquid. It is also antibiotic in nature and never goes bad, never requires refrigeration and lasts (literally) forever if not overheated to the point of condensation. Knowing a fair amount about honey, I did not hesitate trying the recipe.

 

3000-year-old honey was found in the pyramids and was still perfectly edible.

 

https://www.national...e-pyramids.aspx

 

You convinced me.  I'll try a honey storage method.


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#116 ilikethings

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 06:25 PM

Reading through the recent replies it occurred to me that I cannot recall ever making mushroom tea.

 

I think this is partly due to an old habit of not wanting to lose ANY of the initially-sparse harvests from my very small grows in the early years.

 

I would be curious to know what the measured loss of actives is in a tea. Or rather, the likely range it would fall within.

I never made tea either, but now that I'm lousy with fruits perhaps ill try it.  But generally whenever I hear of mushroom tea i just think of Zoolander.  not to mention the line from zoolander where Hansel says: "me and my crew have been chill'en on a beach in the Caribbean trippin acid with spider monkeys.  Changed our whole perspective on shit.  What have you been up to lately?"


Edited by ilikethings, 08 December 2019 - 06:26 PM.

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#117 Jinroh

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Posted 08 December 2019 - 07:49 PM

 

Reading through the recent replies it occurred to me that I cannot recall ever making mushroom tea.

 

I think this is partly due to an old habit of not wanting to lose ANY of the initially-sparse harvests from my very small grows in the early years.

 

I would be curious to know what the measured loss of actives is in a tea. Or rather, the likely range it would fall within.

I never made tea either, but now that I'm lousy with fruits perhaps ill try it.  But generally whenever I hear of mushroom tea i just think of Zoolander.  not to mention the line from zoolander where Hansel says: "me and my crew have been chill'en on a beach in the Caribbean trippin acid with spider monkeys.  Changed our whole perspective on shit.  What have you been up to lately?"

 

Hah! I am visualizing that scene right now...

Adventure%20Time%20-%20Horse%20Go%20Poo%



#118 butterbean

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Posted 16 May 2020 - 10:27 AM

Can vouch for both TV Casualty and golly's honey tek. I had a bacth from golly's tek now for 4-5 years, potency seem just as good as before. I've pretty much been exclusively dosing from golly's recipe because I prefer no mushroom material but i have batches of TV's stuff which IMO should keep longer then just the honey (maybe some mild loss from golly's tek when making the tea before reducing and adding to honey???)

I always find myself surprised by the strength of it. 1.5g can hit you hard. I can't imagine 5 grams of the stuff...  
 

Anyways I'm interested to know what you guys think of storing the cracker dry fungi in a vacuum sealed container with desiccant in the fridge (not freezer). The weather is pretty hot year round here and I'm wondering if the storing in the fridge temporarily before I can make honey or chocolates for long term storage would be better than leaving them out in room temp. Any issues when taking them out of the fridge?   



#119 Jinroh

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Posted 17 May 2020 - 04:55 PM

Can vouch for both TV Casualty and golly's honey tek. I had a bacth from golly's tek now for 4-5 years, potency seem just as good as before. I've pretty much been exclusively dosing from golly's recipe because I prefer no mushroom material but i have batches of TV's stuff which IMO should keep longer then just the honey (maybe some mild loss from golly's tek when making the tea before reducing and adding to honey???)

I always find myself surprised by the strength of it. 1.5g can hit you hard. I can't imagine 5 grams of the stuff...  
 

Anyways I'm interested to know what you guys think of storing the cracker dry fungi in a vacuum sealed container with desiccant in the fridge (not freezer). The weather is pretty hot year round here and I'm wondering if the storing in the fridge temporarily before I can make honey or chocolates for long term storage would be better than leaving them out in room temp. Any issues when taking them out of the fridge?   

The only issue I can see would be condensation forming on the inside of the container due to temperature change. Besides air, moisture is just as bad for dried Myc.


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#120 TVCasualty

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Posted 22 May 2020 - 07:52 PM

They'll keep great for years in the fridge under vacuum. Condensation when taking them out of the fridge can be an issue like Jinroh pointed out, so to prevent that just let the container warm up to room temperature before opening/unsealing it. Give it enough time to warm up on the inside, too (which includes the actual mushrooms). That takes a while since it acts like a vacuum-insulated thermos (so give it a couple of hours at least). Or just put them in a container with some desiccant and re-dry them if they get floppy.

 

Bone-dry is definitely best for making my honey mix, and it makes the mix stronger, too since most ounce bags of "cracker dry" fungi are at least a few grams of water, so getting rid of that and replacing it with a few more grams of dry fungi boost the potency a bit. I like to use them when they sound like porcelain (clink!) when I drop them on a tile counter (but use them right away -within a few minutes- when you take them out of your drying setup since they absorb water out of the air really quickly when they're that dry).






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