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Kratom and


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#1 Baphom3t

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 09:47 AM

So for a few years I have had severe pain in my back and have refused opioids as a treatment. I've just lived with it.
I went to the specialists only to find I have nerve damage in the L4 part of my back along with degeneration of my L5 and S1.
Fast forward just a bit up to now and I have a "consultation" with the pain management team next month to discuss whether or not I'm gonna go through with lumbar injections.

Now I'm not a fan of the idea of needles being shoved into my back or my spine for that matter so.....I turned to kratom for pain relief.
I have 4 different varieties. I have Red Vein Thai, White Sumatra, White Vietnam, and Green Horn Leaf.
I have done all but the Green Horn Leaf so I don't have any knowledge of it outside of what I have read.

The first night I made the mistake of eating just a wee bit much of the red vein thai but I can certainly vouch for the pain relieving effects of the red vein variety.
I feel that the red vein is better for pain than the white vein but I also notice pain relief in the white vein, it just seems to me a bit more uppity.
On the average I have been eating 3-5 grams a day daily and my back pain has decreased substantially.
I've done green varieties before but not sure of the variety.
What has worked for y'all when it comes to kratom?


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#2 makinbones69

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 10:58 AM

I took 5-7g red vein for about a week and titrated down completely over the course of a month to wean myself off suboxone. I was on suboxone medically to kick heroin and dilauded habit. I'm 5'8" and weigh 165. I dont feel u are taking too much. About 5g is where I started noticing it act like a opiate although my tolerance to opiates is pretty high even when I dont use them. I've been off it for 2 years all opiates and kratom but red vein helped alot and was definitely my preferred one. I'd play around up to 4.5 til u can feel some nodding and then back down to a pain relief dose.

I hope that helps maybe others who use it more will weigh in for some better input but that's my experience of it. I also never really had to use it for pain except withdraw pain it definitely helps that.

Edited by makinbones69, 22 July 2019 - 11:05 AM.

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#3 onediadem

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 12:32 PM

Oh man. I had injections for a year the first time I hurt my back. Awful pain management, and it was minimal relief that lasted a bit over a week. I gained an insane amount of weight from it also. about 6 months ago, I had an injection on one side of my spine that was supposed to fry and deaden the nerves, failed, and the pain was bite through my lip excruciating that lasted for hours before it subsided and actually raised my pain level. Dr. said it was rare but it does happen sometimes. I told them no thanks to doing the other side. If the kratom is helping, stick with that. I will never put another needle in my spine again. I am putting off surgury as long as I can, but that is my next option. Best of luck.


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#4 Coopdog

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 12:51 PM

I have been using Kratom for 6-7 years daily now. I am addicted to it. It takes a few years of serious dedication to it for the physical addiction to kick in, but it can happen. I have weaned myself down and quit a couple of times, but I have to work and I have to be mobile, and without it I am one hurting old man. Aside from that one big negative... this stuff has been a complete Godsend for me. I tend to use a heaping teaspoonful about 4-5 times a day but have not increased that dosage at all in several years. I wrote a thread about how hard it is to actually stop it and many people don't want it said that it can be physically addictive because that hurts it's public image, but the truth is the truth my friend. As long as I stuck to two spoonfuls a day I had no physical addiction issues. Increasing that just be aware...

 

That being said, I have a bad knee, bad shoulders, my thumb joints are deteriorating, and I have a job that requires mobility, but is very easy aside from that. This substance helps me be able to drag myself in to work every day and get through my day relatively pain free compared to prescription or over the counter meds. Kratom works twice as good as anything else out there for pain in my opinion. 

 

My preferred strain is White Maeng Da, because it is generally energetic and great for pain. However the last few years my favorite bulk supplier has had some extremely potent White Maeng Da and it is very heavy, almost like an opiate effect. I have begun to seek out strains for energy to offset that. My extensive seeking on a single kind that is best has been fruitless. Every single batch is different from bag to bag in my experience, and looking up other peoples impressions of effect is also not productive. You have to find what works for you and keep in mind that it changes constantly. I am sure there are times of year it is most potent, like most plants, but hitting on the best stuff is a crapshoot. So many vendors are importing metric tonnes of it that you might get some killer one time, and then the next they are offloading some three year old stuff on you. You really never know. 

 

I have found a couple of reliable vendors, but I stick to one mainly because I find theirs to be best. As for strain preferences, for pain I like White or Green Maeng Da. Red Bali, Red Borneo. For energy I have had good results with White and green Hulu and white and green Borneo. Got some white veined Horned kratom one time that was better than most recreational drugs I have ever seen, but alas has never been found again. Also got some Green Huapas Hulu that was phenomenal, and I am trying to stretch the bottom part of that kilo as long as I can for the awesome effects of it. Never found that sweet spot that makes it so good or just average but I won't list the distributors name on here because I have been chastised for that before. Hope this is helpful to you man. 


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#5 Juthro

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Posted 22 July 2019 - 01:36 PM

I've got similar back issues, moderate to severe degeneration in L4, and L5, as well as in C3.   They offered me those steroid injections, and after some research I declined.   They are better suited for temporary relief of problems that can heal and get better with time, disk degeneration does not get better.  And the injections are not risk free, the biggest risk (IMHO) is getting an infection (meningitis) and dying.

 

A huge amount of people got infections, and over 50 died in  New York back around 2013'ish  (I don't remember the exact year, but I think I'm close)  from contaminated steroids getting injected into their spinal column.  Add to that it only addresses symptoms, and it is only a temporary fix.  My doc had forgot to tell me about all the risks until I brought it up to him.

 

I'm not telling you to not do it, as it would likely offer you relief for some time, but do some research and decide if the risk vs benefit ratio is acceptable to you.  It's a personal decision, and only you can decide, but my advice is if your going to just address symptoms, kratom is much safer choice then injections.


Edited by Juthro, 22 July 2019 - 01:37 PM.

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#6 Baphom3t

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Posted 23 July 2019 - 04:36 AM

Thanks for all the feedback everyone. I've done kratom off and on for a few years but since my back has gotten worse I take it on a daily basis. It sure is a lot better than the gabbapentin and opioids they wanted to feed me.

I have been aware of the physical addiction of kratom for some time. Being a pit master I have to be very mobile with my work also and lifting 6 -7 brisket at a time or 8 pork butts over the course of a day wears on the back.
I weight mine out on my digi scales, I take 3-5 grams one time a day when I get off work.

So far all the varieties I've gotten has helped, some more than others but as Coop said every batch is different. I have found the red thai to do the best so far but I still have the green horn leaf to try. The injection shit freaks me more than anything, I been reading on that as well and I'm really up in the air over that.


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#7 Skywatcher

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Posted 23 July 2019 - 08:52 AM

Injection therapy is not a given to help. I had two discs in my neck that were wasted, and the first injection was wonderful,

for 4 days................

Every attempt afterward was non effective. Pain management jerked me around for two years, wasting time with every other option to try besides the obvious. When I got sick of living with that pain I sought a different neurologist, who fused the two discs and opened up the pinched nerve bundle channels. Relief took a few weeks but was permanent.....

 

I have knee issues I now use the kratom daily for. I think each individual reacts slightly different to the strains, but the white Maeng da, and the white horn work the best for me. Greens are kind of speedy for me. I use it once a day, and get a good 6 plus hours, and several hours after that of a good residual effect.

 

I would say find the ones that work the best for you.


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#8 bezevo

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Posted 23 July 2019 - 10:40 AM

i have  arthritis  in various parts of my old body , especially my hands . i always have refused opioids ,in my opinion they do nothing for pain just make you so high you don't care ,  i started trying kratom about yr ago .  i like    White Maeng Da, because it is generally energetic good for  work and great for pain . i only toss and wash a teaspoon usually once a day occasionally when i have  lots more work to complete i  do a second tsp about 7 hours after first . . I found good consistent vendor, i buy a kilo  at a time to save on price  ..i have stopped for a few days and  felt NO addicted withdrawal  type Symptoms .  my hands just hurt .


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#9 Coopdog

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Posted 23 July 2019 - 12:43 PM

I can say for most certain, that at 1-2 teaspoonfuls a day, that the addiction factor is near "0". I used it at that level daily for several years and had NO addiction to it whatsoever. Not even psychological. When I stopped, which I did every few months just to make sure, I had no effects other than my hands hurting as Bezevo says. It was not until I hurt myself and had to reluctantly up my dosage considerably that I started realizing that I had a hook thru my balls and was really addicted. As I said above, even with that hook I have weaned myself down to none a couple of times but work and pain are not liveable without it, so I just manage my addiction and keep a good stockpile on hand. Weaning down is not hard, but giving up that last little bit is VERY damn hard and takes weeks to get past once you reach addiction level. Still not saying it is a bad thing. It makes life workable for me, and without it I am that mean old man biting everyones head off and limping around in a bad mood, and I really don't care to be in constant pain. I live in dread of them making it totally illegal, but I know it will happen. It also sucks how they have demonized it in the mainstream media. I used to share it freely, and even some of my managers have had some of mine before it all started going downhill in the media. 

 

Are all of you who use this stuff aware that the DEA has begun putting pressure on the Gov't of Thailand and all over Indonesia for them to make it illegal to farm and export to us? Already Declarations of cease and desist have been given with a five year window in some places to switch to another crop. Big pharma will have it's way one way or another. God forbid we can get a supplement that is effective and fairly cheap that works better than their poisons. 



#10 bezevo

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Posted 23 July 2019 - 03:02 PM

OBUMER  took huge bribes from big pharm ,to sign presidential order to make it so  Credit cards and pay-pall  ect wouldn't take payments for a perfectly legal  suplimates like ,kratom and other things like a donation to mycotopia ... seems a bit unconstitutional

 

no..................

 

........yup .

 

just like the bribes from   big insurance  that gave us the NOT AFFORDABLE HEALTH CARE ACT that caused me to lose my FREE Health care threw my job and double my out of pocket expenses . no more free premium , doubled   co-pays,  doubled deductible

 

thanks for helping me  lefty Sheeppal

 

i am a liberal ...........not a lefty commie don't get them confused


Edited by bezevo, 23 July 2019 - 03:10 PM.

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#11 Juthro

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Posted 23 July 2019 - 03:41 PM

 

 

i am a liberal ...........not a lefty commie don't get them confused

 

 

Too bad you weren't a socialist so the government could use our taxes to pay for your health care, instead of just subsidising big farms, insurance companies, banks, and other big business.

:)



#12 CallMeCrazy

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Posted 23 July 2019 - 04:27 PM

Just a thought... Maybe we should take matters into our own hands and grow our own? What do you guys think?

#13 Cuboid

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Posted 23 July 2019 - 04:30 PM

Just a thought... Maybe we should take matters into our own hands and grow our own? What do you guys think?

You're crazy! (Username checks out ;) )

I did wonder about this myself. I'd need a big greenhouse to grow tropical shrubs/trees.

"Mitragyna speciosa is an evergreen tree that can grow to a height of 25 m (82 ft). Its trunk may grow to a 0.9 m (3 ft) diameter.[27] The trunk is generally straight, and the outer bark is smooth and grey.[27] The leaves are dark green and glossy[2] and can grow to over 14–20 cm (5.5–7.9 in) long and 7–12 cm (2.8–4.7 in) wide when fully open, are ovate-acuminate in shape, and opposite in growth pattern, with 12–17 pairs of veins.[27] The flowers grow in clusters of three at the ends of the branches. The calyx-tube is 2 mm (0.08 in) long and has five lobes; the corolla-tube is 2.5–3 millimetres (0.098–0.12 in) long.[27]"

I wonder if it can be kept down as a 6ft bush by taking out the top and keeping it pruned?

Edited by Cuboid, 23 July 2019 - 04:40 PM.


#14 MycoBabe

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 01:33 AM

I have been struggling with the same pain for some years now. I used to take kratom years back, but it got difficult for a bit. My dr recently dropped me as a patient after testing positive for marijuana , and cancelled my muscle relaxer and klonapin prescriptions. Life has been miserable!! Back when I took Keaton, I ordered from a company that sent me tincture. I am pretty sure that company is gone now, and all they sell at the store are the pills. I was told there was no more tincture due to people abusing it.
I had been asking around to see if someone could tell me if it helped with my pain. Idk where the pain originated, but it radiates from my toes to my neck. Thank you for this post, it gave me the info I had been searching for.

And yeah, they prescribed me klonapin for 20 years, all the way up to 4 mg/day. And told me good luck due to marijuana. It should be a malpractice suit, imo, but what can I do




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