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"The Fasting Cure Is No Fad"


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#1 August West

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Posted 02 August 2019 - 01:24 PM

I may be taking some liberties by posting this in here but I kinda feel like taking control of your health is an act of resistance at this point in time. Also don't know why I can't get the quote box to work on this but...whatever.

 

https://www.wsj.com/...fad-11564676512

 

New research is showing the profound benefits—for weight, longevity and fighting disease—of eating only during limited hours

By


Andreas Michalsen

Aug. 1, 2019 12:21 pm ET

 

Fasting is one of the biggest weight-loss trends to arise in recent years. Endorsed by A-list celebrities and the subject of a spate of best-selling books, it was the eighth most-Googled diet in America in 2018.

 

But fasting shouldn’t be dismissed as just another fad. At the Charité University Hospital in Berlin, I’ve employed what’s called intermittent fasting, or time-restricted eating, to help patients with an array of chronic conditions. These include diabetes, high blood pressure, rheumatism and bowel diseases, as well as pain syndromes such as migraines and osteoarthritis.


There are different ways to go about it, but I advise patients to omit either dinner or breakfast, so that they don’t ingest any food for at least 14 hours at a stretch. That makes lunch the most important meal of the day. It also reduces the time spent each day processing food and lengthens the period devoted to cleansing and restoring the body’s cells, both of which have positive health effects.

 

Adopting this technique is not as difficult as it may seem. If you sleep from 11 p.m. to 7 a.m., you’ve already fasted for eight hours. Now you only need another six. It’s healthy to avoid eating late in the evening to let your body burn energy from food rather than store it, so if you eat dinner by 7 p.m., that’s another four hours. For breakfast, you can limit yourself to coffee or tea (maybe with a small piece of fruit) and make lunch your first proper meal. By that time, you’re clearly beyond the 14 hours and don’t need to restrain yourself: You can eat until you are full.

 

The biologist Satchidananda Panda at California’s Salk Institute showed the possibilities of this approach in a 2012 report in the journal Cell Metabolism. He fed a group of mice a high-fat diet around the clock for 18 weeks; they developed fatty livers, pancreatic disease and diabetes. Another group was fed the exact same number of calories a day, but all during an eight-hour span. Surprisingly, the second group stayed slimmer and healthier for much longer.

 

There is a logic to it. When we eat, our body releases insulin. That disrupts the process of autophagy (from the Greek, meaning “self-devouring”), by which cells deconstruct old, damaged components in order to release energy and build new molecules. Autophagy helps to counteract the aging of cells and builds immunity. Fasts stimulate autophagy and allow the full molecular process to take place, as a team led by Frank Madeo at the University of Graz in Austria found in 2017.

 

Fasting also can contribute to brain health and happiness. The neurobiologist Mark Mattson, who retired this year from the National Institutes of Health, has demonstrated in experiments for two decades that nerve growth factors contribute significantly to brain health and positive mood. He also found that fasting, restricting calories and exercising spur distinct increases in the best-known nerve growth factor, BDNF.

 

Test animals in Dr. Mattson’s laboratory that fasted intermittently even showed a significantly lower risk of developing Parkinson’s disease, multiple sclerosis and Alzheimer’s, though those results would have to be clearly confirmed in large human studies to reach any firm conclusion.

 

All of this presents a question: If we should generally eat only two meals a day, which meal is it best to skip? Many of us have heard the saying: “Eat breakfast like a king, lunch like a prince and supper like a pauper.” Scientific evidence for the glory of breakfast is scarce, however, and realistically, it’s easier to sustain skipping breakfast than skipping dinner.

 

Instead of breakfast, we should eat lunch like kings. A rich lunch beats a robust dinner. A U.K.-led study published in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition in 2016 showed that among 69 women, those who consumed most of their calories at lunch shed 3.3 pounds more in 12 weeks than those who ate a bigger dinner. After all, it’s around lunchtime that the body requires the greatest amount of energy for keeping its body temperature up. Less energy thus passes into our fat reserves.

 

Researchers are increasingly probing the optimal timing of meals, duration of fasting and the various potential health effects. Scientists at the University of Padua have found, for instance, that young, healthy athletes fasting for 16 hours benefited from metabolic changes over eight weeks compared with their peers. The regimen lowered the levels of inflammatory factors in their blood and factors accelerating the aging process, including insulin.

 

Fasting might even be effective in preventing the recurrence of cancer, as suggested by initial results of an epidemiological study conducted by researchers at the University of California at San Diego, published in 2016 in the journal JAMA Oncology. Among 2,400 women with early-stage breast cancer who provided information on their eating rhythm, roughly 400 suffered from new tumors within seven years. But women who fasted for 13 hours nightly had 26% less risk of recurrence than the control group. One possible reason was suggested in data summarized last year from a decade of animal experiments by Valter Longo and a team at the University of Southern California: Cancer cells are less able than normal cells to survive a lack of sugar.

 

As a practice, fasting is more than simply restricting calories or nutrients. For many people, it is also a spiritual experience. Over the course of our lives, we encounter many kinds of deficiency, whether of money, success or affection. Fasting is a conscious renunciation, a controlled exercise in deprivation. That’s why successful fasting increases self-efficacy—we overcome an instinctive need in a way that gives us physical and mental strength. In his novel “Siddhartha,” Hermann Hesse describes this wonderfully: “Nothing is performed by demons; there are no demons. Anyone can perform magic. Anyone can reach his goals if he can think, if he can wait, if he can fast.”

 

—Dr. Michalsen is a professor at Berlin’s Charité University Medical Center. This essay is adapted from his new book, “The Nature Cure: A Doctor’s Guide to the Science of Natural Medicine,” which Viking will publish on Aug. 6.

 

 

 


Edited by August West, 02 August 2019 - 01:37 PM.

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#2 ElPirana

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Posted 23 December 2020 - 08:09 AM

I’ve had a slight interest in fasting for a long time, lately I’ve been considering it again. But I don’t really know much about it... I mean whether there are certain methods or practices to follow for various benefits. Of course the article above relates fasting to physical health, but my interest leans more towards what it can do for the mind.

Ramana Maharshi suggested eating a satvic diet and eat in moderation as the single greatest practice for helping quiet the mind. It was a little unexpected, but when I listened to the Matthew McConaughey interview on the Joe Rogan podcast, he described how when he was losing a lot of weight by restricting his diet for one of his movies, his mind got more focused. I’ve read of Buddhist monks who claim that highly restricted diets allow them to achieve samadhi more easily.

Around three years ago I spent about three months cutting ALL sugar from my diet for the sole purpose of learning from it and maybe figuring out why I crave it so much. It was really interesting watching myself, noticing how desires would rise and fall, not doing anything about them except to watch and learn. By the end nearly all desire for sweets was gone and in fact my previous “normal” infatuation with food was nearly completely gone. Even now after all this time I don’t care much what I eat, by that I mean I could care less about having special meals, going to restaurants, craving certain foods. The only thing that still comes up from time to time is sugar, if I eat it I do tend to eat it again and again, amazing how addictive sugars are.

If anyone has thoughts or suggestions I’d love to hear it. Or even past experiences would be worth sharing.
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#3 coAsTal

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Posted 23 December 2020 - 08:58 AM

It's a delight to me that this thread popped up, because I'm on day 2 of a 7 day water fast-- I have long-term fasted about a half dozen times in the past couple of years-- ranging from 2 days through this week's 7 day. This will be my longest term yet, having done 5 day's twice before.

 

It is a very positive experience -- even though it is absolutely challenging in the beginning as you have to learn that your "hunger" response is mainly the combination of two things:

1) Your "bad" intestinal flora that's sugar-oriented screaming at you to feed it's gluttonous and hostile bacteria, and

2) Pure, simple habit-- until you realize that we eat far more out of social conditioning than physical need, you crave it like heroin, lol.

 

I've found incredible benefit from fasting, despite these modest difficulties-- and it truly becomes easier the more frequently you fast.

After Thanksgiving I did a 3.5 day "pre-fast" in preparation for this one, because I've learned that your body remembers far better how to enter the fast state the more often you do it.

Yesterday I worked all day and didn't even notice I was not eating. I burned through much of the stored sugar/carbs from my recent meals so that I could get a jump on entering ketosis and shave a day off the wait for my body to begin repairing itself through mass autophagy and HGH production towards the end of the term.

I woke up this morning in great spirits, not hungry, though a little cloudy-headed maybe, and very happy to go through this cleansing and healthy maintenance period.

 

All the energy your body allocates to food processing (an estimated 30+% of total energy resources) is re-routed to systemic deficiencies and the longer-term damage that your system keeps limping along at sub-optimal levels because it never has the resources to actually fully fix them.

 

My first 5-day was pretty damned hard, as all my joints were sore and I pretty much stayed in bed-- but I've done extremely physical work for many years, and this pain was my body swarming to repair the soft tissues that it never had the chance to deal with-- my daily joint pain is more manageable after every longer fast now. There's no question that it helps.

 

My work is still very hard on my body, so it's a continual effort to mitigate that, but fasting is far safer and effective than painkillers that literally do nothing but blind you to the damage.

 

I really can't praise it highly enough, and encourage you to research it further-- the bright side is that daily fasting is practically effortless (4-6-8 hour eating windows).

A 24 hour--- which should really be called a 36 because you eat last in the early evening of day 0, wake up with 12 hours free time while you slept, water only all of day 1, and don't "break-fast" until the morning of day 2.

 

Do these a few times and see how much easier they get. When you can do a 36hr once a week, then you double it. Rinse and repeat. It's worked fantastic for me--

 

Read carefully on how to reintroduce food to your shut-down digestive system after 3+ day fasts, because you really have to be very careful and thoughtful on how you do it-- but damn, man, it's a great feeling of mental clarity on day 5 when you feel clean and alive, and completely focused on NOW like you just never are when you're running at 70% all the time processing food.

 

Good luck and best wishes!


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#4 coAsTal

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Posted 23 December 2020 - 09:05 AM

Let me drop this site on you as a resource on water fasting, because he does a good job of openly and honestly explaining the work in layman's terms and without getting overly medical/technical.

 

https://waterfasting...-water-fasting/


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#5 TVCasualty

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Posted 23 December 2020 - 09:09 AM

A whole lot of Americans have been embracing this approach to diet lately, but not because they intended to. [Filed under: Making economic-disaster lemonade]

 

I've been doing intermittent/random fasting for many years, but entirely incidentally (I didn't know it was a "diet" or recommendation) since I'd just not eat if I didn't feel like eating and sometimes I'd simply forget, lol. I might go two days without eating anything but was not intending to fast.

 

 

I always had a suspicion that my body probably knows what's good for it (well, mostly), so if it isn't hungry I don't stuff food into it. Seems reasonable to me, anyway.

 

 

The catch with making lunch the main meal of the day is that it's way too much food to take in in the middle of the work day if you happen to be doing strenuous physical work.

 

 

Still, the research is really interesting and makes a good case for incorporating fasting into our lives on a regular basis. Saving a little money thanks to buying less food is cool, too.


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#6 ElPirana

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Posted 23 December 2020 - 09:25 AM

Great info coAsTal! I’m definitely going to look into this some more. Back when I used to read about Buddhism, I noticed they would go out for alms once a day, whatever food they got in their bowl was all they would eat until the next day. It always made me wonder why we needed to eat so much food, and so often all day long, when these Buddhists would essentially eat one very small meal each day and lived long lives.
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#7 rockyfungus

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Posted 23 December 2020 - 10:10 AM

IF is great. I took a class many moons ago called the biology of dying. ("we're living to die, and dying to live...")

 

The only thing possibly to increase humans life span is reducing caloric intake, reducing the amount of shit you shove down your gullet.

I've dropped 30-40lbs from IF over the years. Only downside to IF, my appetite is whack and I never feel hungry till 2-3PM, need to force myself to eat a breakfast if I need the extra fuel.


Edited by rockyfungus, 23 December 2020 - 10:11 AM.

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#8 ElPirana

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Posted 23 December 2020 - 10:27 AM

IF is great. I took a class many moons ago called the biology of dying. ("we're living to die, and dying to live...")
 
The only thing possibly to increase humans life span is reducing caloric intake, reducing the amount of shit you shove down your gullet.
I've dropped 30-40lbs from IF over the years. Only downside to IF, my appetite is whack and I never feel hungry till 2-3PM, need to force myself to eat a breakfast if I need the extra fuel.

I haven’t done any real fasting, but I did change my diet considerably about a year and a half ago. I had to force myself to eat more because I started losing weight. I don’t really need to lose weight, I’m 6’ 3” and hover around 163 lbs. When I mentioned fasting to my wife last night, she joked that I would fade away. lol

#9 rockyfungus

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Posted 23 December 2020 - 12:10 PM

I'm 5'6 and maybe 110 these days

I'm tiny and high energy, so with IF and an active lifestyle my friends used to call me Auschwitz (sure that joke flies well with the PC crowd), so I get fading away.

I got abs for the first time in my life, so I guess a win.


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#10 coAsTal

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Posted 28 December 2020 - 06:55 PM

Well, FWIW today I'm finishing my 7th day without any food or calories of any kind. Turns out it's not as bad as anyone thinks!

 

I admit that it's not effortless-- there's definitely a lot of willpower to stay on track.

I've had some borderline pornographic thoughts at various times throughout the week about pizza, nacho's, and other oil-drenched, salty, cheesy goodness-- but looking back it was manageable-- even with my wife eating regularly right next to me.

 

I do believe my previous fast experience has helped keep my mindset on target, and having done the 3.5 day just a month ago did seem to prime my body. I'm glad I worked up to this the way I did.

 

The biggest thing I'd point to for the curious is the "low power mode" that you kick into. You really have to plan around this and know that you're not going to be doing anything involving significant physical activity. You will not have any energy-- especially later in the game.

I am exhausted just carrying stuff up 2 flights of stairs, and even driving somewhere felt like labor. But my mood, perception, and overall body has felt surprisingly...normal.

 

The biggest thing I was watching for was how my joints and muscle wear from work shook out. The pain is 95% gone. Deadly serious-- my Achilles tendon on both feet has been very burdensome for me-- always sore and especially painful in the mornings after waking up-- but they've been pain free for several days already. Same with all my other pain issues.

In previous 4-day off segments (I have 1 or 2 a month) the pain was still present and wouldn't heal much, so this isn't just the time off.

 

While I am ending the fast in the morning, I do feel like I could continue it further-- but my schedule for work leaves me with the need to get my body back in full power mode due to needing a lot of energy and strength to get through each day.

 

Anyway-- hope this report is useful to anyone wondering about what it's like when you quit eating for a week :meditate:


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#11 ElrikEriksson

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Posted 01 January 2021 - 01:28 AM

My two longest fasts were about 2 weeks, for me that was right to the border between fasting and starvation [I'm very slender by any definition].
I agree with coastal and most of the classic fasting authors that physical activity needs to be reduced. Most books on fasting regard it as a way to rest the body so it can heal itself. Those last few days can be hazardous, don't take a hot shower when near starvation! :laugh:

I do not agree with fasting as a way to loose weight. It does not address the issue.
Nearly all people who are overweight follow a bad diet, even if they believe otherwise. I've read lots of medical literature on diet in the past and its just laughable what gets called an 'improved' diet when you look at the actual constituents of food being ingested. Just as one example I once saw an article that said a study proved that reducing fat didn't cause weight loss. I looked up the study, and the abstract did say that. I read the study and the intervention group only managed to reduce their fat intake from 40% to 38% calories from fat and maintained that for 2 weeks. They thought they were doing good and they didn't loose weight [in reality, under 20% is a healthy fat intake and weight loss takes months or years, you cant loose a hundred times as fast as you gained].
It's in between sad and absurd how little people normally change. To radically improve your health by changing diet you need to radically improve your diet.
After you have radically improved your diet and commit to it, then fasting can help remove toxins, remodel disordered tissues, and yes remove some fat.

As far as intermittent fasting being called a fad, buddhist monks who actually follow their monastic rules have been fasting for 16 hours a day for the last 2600 years. I think by this metric the wheel would also count as a fad :wink:

Edited by ElrikEriksson, 01 January 2021 - 01:30 AM.

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#12 ElPirana

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Posted 04 May 2021 - 09:49 AM

It's a delight to me that this thread popped up, because I'm on day 2 of a 7 day water fast-- I have long-term fasted about a half dozen times in the past couple of years-- ranging from 2 days through this week's 7 day. This will be my longest term yet, having done 5 day's twice before.
 
It is a very positive experience -- even though it is absolutely challenging in the beginning as you have to learn that your "hunger" response is mainly the combination of two things:
1) Your "bad" intestinal flora that's sugar-oriented screaming at you to feed it's gluttonous and hostile bacteria, and
2) Pure, simple habit-- until you realize that we eat far more out of social conditioning than physical need, you crave it like heroin, lol.
 

So I’m finally getting into my first water fast. I’m on day 2. I figured the first day would be cake, since I eat pretty healthy anyway, and I am not all that enamored with food. But I have been consuming sugars for several weeks/months (the one thing I keep coming back to over and over, it always seems so innocent! lol) and the lack of sugars yesterday definitely got my body freaked. The afternoon I felt weak, nauseous, headache and just bad. It finally let up a little by late evening and this morning I feel much better, slight hunger but overall feeling good.

If all goes well, I plan to just keep going beyond the 3 day fast. I want to go at least 7 days or so, but will have to see...my wife wants me to be able to eat with her on Mother’s Day lol. So that could still give me six days, I’ll just have to wait and see.


Yesterday I came across this podcast:
https://thequantifie...to-beat-cancer/

It was a good podcast. The interviewee is Dr Thomas Seyfried.
Here’s a little info from Dr Seyfried’s website:

Treatise

Dr. Seyfried published a groundbreaking treatise entitled, Cancer as a Metabolic Disease: On the Origin, Management, and Prevention of Cancer (Wiley, 1st ed., 2012). The treatise provides extensive information showing that cancer can be best defined as a mitochondrial metabolic disease rather than as a genetic disease. This new concept has implications for the development of new non-toxic cancer therapies including the ketogenic diet. Experts in the cancer research field have praised this comprehensive study as one of science’s hottest topics.


Research

Our research program focuses on mechanisms by which metabolic therapy manages chronic diseases such as epilepsy, neurodegenerative lipid storage diseases, and cancer. The metabolic therapies include caloric restriction, fasting, and ketogenic diets. Our approach is based on the idea that compensatory metabolic pathways are capable of modifying the pathogenesis of complex diseases. Global shifts in metabolic environment can neutralize molecular pathology. In the case of cancer, these therapies target and kill tumor cells while enhancing the physiological health of normal cells. The neurochemical and genetic mechanisms of these phenomena are under investigation in novel animal models and include the processes of inflammation, cellular physiology, angiogenesis, and lipid biochemistry.



#13 shiftingshadows

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Posted 04 May 2021 - 10:55 AM

Usually after 3 days hunger disappears if not before. Fasting is partly a process of detoxification. Depending on what is stored in your cells (& being released as the body uses up ,your fat) how you feel may change as the toxins will circulate in your blood before being eliminated. Also withdrawal symptoms may come and go. It's all good. The tricky part is breaking the fast slowly. All benefit may be lost if this is done incorrectly or carelessly, it is worth researching how to do it correctly. Eating socially at a celebration, in order to break the fast, is asking for trouble, or at the least losing benefits. Without diet change indeed, the only benefit is likely to be just a brief high.


Edited by shiftingshadows, 04 May 2021 - 11:01 AM.


#14 Ringo

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Posted 04 May 2021 - 11:08 AM

Oops, wrong thread. LOL Yeah, and I feel I need psychedelics?? LOL

 

Sorry 'bout that.


Edited by Ringo, 04 May 2021 - 12:01 PM.


#15 August West

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Posted 04 May 2021 - 11:43 AM

Well, I just noc'd a dozen B+. :)

...

 

Wrong thread?



#16 Cuboid

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Posted 04 May 2021 - 11:53 AM

Well, I just noc'd a dozen B+. :)

I am a little surprised that most all tuts suggest cleaning with alcohol and then spraying bleach into the air. I'm sure most people know that Alcohol + bleach = death. Chloroform is very very dangerous and deadly. Not sure if the way we do it presents any danger but I am very careful to keep the 2 separate.

Also, how can you tell if a jar has stalled? I think the Golden Teacher I noc'd 2 weeks ago has stopped colonizing. I see a few jars switching to rhizio growth but there are some bare spots that are just not filling in. And, they look like they are drying out. I plan to dunk them Thursday and birth them on Friday but I am wondering if I can wait that long.

I am loading and soaking my fruiting chamber today to get it ready.

Thanks

Well that seems a bit off topic ;)
Wrong thread by any chance :)
Maybe one of our fab admins could move it to where it should be if you say which thread you were meaning to reply to?

 

Edit: And now I see August called it already. Delete my superfluous input? :)


Edited by Cuboid, 04 May 2021 - 11:54 AM.


#17 Cuboid

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Posted 04 May 2021 - 12:00 PM

I am actually very interested in fasting myself - but I just bloody luv food soooo much.

I recently read Ways to Go Beyond (and why they work) by Rupert Sheldrake - it had a chapter on fasting as a spiritual practice and went into some of the physical health benefits. I honestly think it could do me the world of good as fundamentally a lot of my problems are metabolic in nature.
Since switching to a low carb diet (I'm not good enough at it to call it a ketogenic diet truly) I am better than I was in a lot of ways, like in particular I don't carve carb's like I used to and don't get hungry between meals like I used to. Buuutttt..... I still get pretty wobbly if I am late having a meal or miss a meal. I would need to take a few days off work to try a fasting for 2 or 3 days. 



#18 Ringo

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Posted 04 May 2021 - 12:02 PM

LOL Sorry about that gang. I moved it. LOL



#19 shiftingshadows

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Posted 04 May 2021 - 01:30 PM

....

Since switching to a low carb diet (I'm not good enough at it to call it a ketogenic diet truly) I am better than I was in a lot of ways, like in particular I don't carve carb's like I used to and don't get hungry between meals like I used to. Buuutttt..... I still get pretty wobbly if I am late having a meal or miss a meal. I would need to take a few days off work to try a fasting for 2 or 3 days. 

ketogenic diet seems to just be a fad that results in rapid weight loss but not healthy long term. See for example:   https://nutritionfac...-series-part-1/



#20 shiftingshadows

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Posted 04 May 2021 - 01:42 PM

....

If all goes well, I plan to just keep going beyond the 3 day fast. I want to go at least 7 days or so, but will have to see...my wife wants me to be able to eat with her on Mother’s Day lol. So that could still give me six days, I’ll just have to wait and see.
....
 
Basically the body, or an aspect of it wants to detox for about 4o days. 1) this isn't medically safe at home, 2) it makes one very weak, 3) the limiting factor is running out of minerals, long before running out of fat and muscle to burn. So at home fasts are usually limited to a week or 10 days. As stated previously, the way one feels goes up and down according to the toxins which are being released. This cannot be predicted. The trick is to break the fast while feeling good, and not in the midst of a wave of toxins being unloaded. This requires attention and not imposing plans. Fasting is a serious business, and the longer it lasts the more so, which means there are rules that go with it, if one wants good results. If one doesn't care, about results of course one can do whatever one wants.





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