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Low potency first harvest: what factors in?


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#1 Benredbeard

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Posted 07 August 2019 - 03:07 PM

My B+ harvest was on the light side of acceptable potency, and the Golden Teacher was really weak: maybe in the 2-3 grams for a very light recreational range.

What factors affect potency that are in grower control? This was pasteurized horse manure supplemented with a bit of coffee, CaSo4, CaCO3, and vermiculite.

I'd appreciate any thoughts!
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#2 KapnDank

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Posted 07 August 2019 - 07:09 PM

Potency as far as I know of is mediated by genetics. I feel like my fruits became more potent after I started using hpoo but I never ran the same genetic culture side by side to test it out so I could've just been getting luckier with my genetics. Besides you're already using hpoo and the general consensus seems to be there's no potency increase from using it(unless it's pan cyans). Ever since I stopped doing MS tubs and started isolating strong rhizo growth on agar my potency has been excellent. Haven't had a lackluster batch ever since.

Edited by KapnDank, 07 August 2019 - 07:12 PM.

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#3 joeya

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Posted 07 August 2019 - 11:14 PM

Lots of things affect potency. One theory floating around for a few years has been that substrates with a higher tryptophan content will grow stronger shrooms. It turns out that psilocybes convert tryptophan into psilocybin in a five step process. Some claims have been made that capitalizing on this increases content to over 3% of dry weight. Normally, it's about 1%.



#4 KapnDank

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Posted 07 August 2019 - 11:24 PM

Lots of things affect potency. One theory floating around for a few years has been that substrates with a higher tryptophan content will grow stronger shrooms. It turns out that psilocybes convert tryptophan into psilocybin in a five step process. Some claims have been made that capitalizing on this increases content to over 3% of dry weight. Normally, it's about 1%.

do you have a source about this? I don't doubt ya I just think it'd be a good read. May even try it out myself

#5 Phungivore

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Posted 07 August 2019 - 11:49 PM

think he might be sighting some studies PF used to have on his website think iirc was gaurtz's work



#6 Coopdog

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 01:44 AM

The B+ I grew out was by far the worst quality shrooms I grew. It grew some nice cosmetic looking pretty shrooms, but the potency was two thumbs down and rather remarkably so. You could trip on them but had to eat a lot to do so. I was indulging a fair amount back then so put them up until I had cleared for a month or so... NADA. I think there is a pitcure of them in my gallery somewhere because I was so thrilled as they were nice fat shroomies. They were magic, but very weak compared to any others I had done. People who say cubies are all the same, are (in my opinion) not analyzing the situation closely enough. I personally have found cubensis to be as varied as strains of marijuana in their effects. Most are functional, some more than others, and I have in time found some KICKASS ones as well. Amazonians are what I was told were some of the best ever's, something called Blue Meanies which were tiny shrooms but gram for gram were quite outstanding, but I think they were grown in a substrate that had 5HTTP added to it to potentiate the good stuff. That seemed to work in my opinion as well because they kicked my ass. Orissa India and Golden Teachers were also good ones, at least the ones I had. Treasure coast and Thai Lippa Yai were good ones too.

 

If you really want your ass kicked move up into woodlovers and grow some ovoids or Cyans or Azures... Those have a completely different and BEAUTIFUL effect that lasts longer than most of the cubies do from my own experience. They are well worth the trouble...not that I have had any success with it. 



#7 KapnDank

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 03:02 AM

I have heard many people claim B+ to be low potency IME they just tend to be more body centric and less visual. Ive had way more intense experiences with other strains visually and mentally but they never produced as strong of a body buzz as the B+ has for me. Kinda like a strong dose of mdma at times. The blue meanie you talk about sounds like pan cyans. They're supposed to have a serotonin analog or something like that in them that effects the overall experience giving the trip a (even more) positive vibe. There is a cube named blue meanie too though.
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#8 Coopdog

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 03:32 AM

The Blue meanies I had were definitely cubensis...



#9 joeya

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 08:20 AM

think he might be sighting some studies PF used to have on his website think iirc was gaurtz's work

actually, there has been more on this in just the last couple years. I'm pretty sure the 5 step process was only really dialled in much more recently than PF. Some of that work is cited at this article, if I'm allowed to post off-site links.

 https://cen.acs.org/...ery-solved.html



#10 TVCasualty

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 09:35 AM

My B+ harvest was on the light side of acceptable potency, and the Golden Teacher was really weak: maybe in the 2-3 grams for a very light recreational range.

What factors affect potency that are in grower control? This was pasteurized horse manure supplemented with a bit of coffee, CaSo4, CaCO3, and vermiculite.

I'd appreciate any thoughts!

 

Just to get this out of the way: Are you are talking about dry weight?

 

This has come up in the past when a long discussion was going on about how someone's harvest was so disappointing and only after a bunch of replies was it revealed that they were talking fresh weight, so their "7 gram mega-dose that barely did anything" wasn't so "mega" after all.

 

 

There have been some long, detailed threads discussing the pros and cons of supplementing subs with stuff like tryptophan, and the net result of those discussions was that it wasn't worth it. If we wanted more potent mushrooms it was far more efficient to just grow a more potent species.

 

Lest we forget, the most potent psilocybes in the world grow on wood, which is less 'nutritious' than manure, grain, worm castings, or anything else we feed cubensis except straw, and 100% straw produces mushrooms as potent as any I've grown on a supplemented substrate. So I figure the perceived potency differences among substrains is mostly if not entirely a function of genetics and that supplementing a substrate will not improve the potency of a harvest of a relatively less-potent strain.


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#11 Benredbeard

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 02:31 PM



My B+ harvest was on the light side of acceptable potency, and the Golden Teacher was really weak: maybe in the 2-3 grams for a very light recreational range.

What factors affect potency that are in grower control? This was pasteurized horse manure supplemented with a bit of coffee, CaSo4, CaCO3, and vermiculite.

I'd appreciate any thoughts!


Just to get this out of the way: Are you are talking about dry weight?

.

Ha fair point, yep dry weight. Great answers folks. I'm familiar with wood culture of gourmet mushrooms.

Can anyone point me towards which are wood-lovers, and do they culture well on typical lignin/cellulose substrate like master's mix or similar?

Same question, straw?

#12 KapnDank

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Posted 08 August 2019 - 10:13 PM

Active woodlovers mostly grow on woodchips. It's a bit different then sawdust blocks or log inoculation that we use with gourmet woodlovers. There are many different species to choose from. Ps. Azurescens, ps. Cyanescens, ps. subaeruginosa, ps. Serbica, ps. Allenii and don't forget ovoids just to name a few.

Edited by KapnDank, 08 August 2019 - 10:14 PM.

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#13 Benredbeard

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 09:18 AM

Excellent, new species to explore! I'll Google but can anyone point me to a tek/reference on these?

#14 TVCasualty

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 10:44 AM

Don't forget that you can also explore different strains of cubensis, which is one of the easiest mushrooms to grow in general and definitely the easiest psychedelic mushroom to grow.

 

Going straight from a disappointing strain of cubensis to one of the exceptionally-potent woodlovers might end up being a harrowing example of the old adage "be careful what you wish for."

 

There is also the option of exploring a more-potent dung-loving species, like Pans (aka Pan cyans, or Panaeolus cyanescens). That species might be a good middle-ground between cubes and woodlovers both in terms of potency (somewhere between 3 and 6 times the potency of cubes depending on whom you ask) and how challenging it is to cultivate. For example: https://mycotopia.ne...s-pan-cyan-tek/


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#15 Baphom3t

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 11:12 AM

I'm just a dude with a opinion so hope it's ok to chime in.
B+ has always been a 50/50 shot. GT have always been a decent time. In my humble opinion try to grow you some Cambo's, Chitwan, PR's, Transkei is pretty nice as well.
It is possible it's a degradation of said species of mush but again it's just my opinion.
Wood lovers I wish I had the space for but alas, I live in a concrete jungle.
 



#16 PJammer24

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 11:24 AM

 

Lots of things affect potency. One theory floating around for a few years has been that substrates with a higher tryptophan content will grow stronger shrooms. It turns out that psilocybes convert tryptophan into psilocybin in a five step process. Some claims have been made that capitalizing on this increases content to over 3% of dry weight. Normally, it's about 1%.

do you have a source about this? I don't doubt ya I just think it'd be a good read. May even try it out myself

 

 

There are VERY active members on here who swear by their blue spectrum lights and supplementing tryptophan to substrates... Apparently Elon Musk agrees that his results are far above average...  :tongue: :rolleyes:

 

 

I wanted to add that, in my experience, neither B+ nor GT are significantly potent strains... I would place them both near the bottom of the range in terms of potency...


Edited by PJammer24, 09 August 2019 - 11:35 AM.

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#17 Benredbeard

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Posted 09 August 2019 - 11:35 AM

These were freshly-harvested individually right at veil break and dehydrated at 95F. The GT was worst, the B+ barely adequate.

They were both from a spore syringe from a reputable vendor... I'm thinking there must be something in my cultural process that caused the problem???

#18 sandman

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 07:19 AM

Dehydrate hotter and faster for one thing. 95f is nothing, it's way too low to dehydrate mushrooms at. 12-24 hours at 140-160 is more like it.

 

Try to clone some fruits also.

 

My golden teachers are highly beloved there is nothing wrong with that strain.


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#19 LegoMyego

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 09:03 AM

As I'm sure you noticed, there are a lot of things that could affect the potency.  B+ and GT, from my experience and reports from others, are not a highly potent shroom.  B it does its job for sure.  One other thing I didn't read on here could be harvest time.  Did you harvest right before the veil broke or after?  I heard once the veil breaks the shrooms start to lose psilocybin due to the death and reproduction cycle.  It makes sense because the psilocybin, while it makes us hallucinate, tricks insects who ingest it into thinking they are not hungry.  Once the fruit is ready to produce spores and later die, it no longer needs to psilocybin to keep insects away.  

 

Also, I've heard woodlovers are tricky.  I'm not sure how much experience you have so you may be fine.  If you're newer like me, stick with cubes.  If you want a really strong cube for next time, try to get your hands on some Penis Envy if you can do bulk grain grows. 

 

Good luck!



#20 TVCasualty

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 10:14 AM

I heard once the veil breaks the shrooms start to lose psilocybin due to the death and reproduction cycle.  It makes sense because the psilocybin, while it makes us hallucinate, tricks insects who ingest it into thinking they are not hungry.  Once the fruit is ready to produce spores and later die, it no longer needs to psilocybin to keep insects away.

 

It would be helpful and interesting to read a source for those claims.

 

I'm skeptical of the hypothesis that the presence of psilocybin is to inhibit ingestion by insects since as anyone who has eaten pasture-picked mushrooms (which are almost always picked when fully mature and heavily sporulating) can attest they are still plenty potent enough to trip off of, which suggests that there would still be enough present to inhibit insects if that were what was going on. Also, fungus gnats don't wait around for veils to break.


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