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Low potency first harvest: what factors in?


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#21 LegoMyego

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Posted 10 August 2019 - 11:43 AM

https://www.sciencea...l-gene-transfer

 

https://bigthink.com...shrooms-evolved (this one even talks about how it could give them a bad ride, making it less likely they'll eat it again) 

 

It think you may have misunderstood my post.  All I meant was psilocybin is a defense mechanism.  At the end stages of life, the hypothesis is that the fruit puts more energy into preparing for spore drop than the continued manufacturing of psilocybin.  I'm not saying all of it goes away, but it stands to reason there is a reduction in its production therefore a drop in potency.   


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#22 Benredbeard

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 05:43 PM



Ever since I stopped doing MS tubs and started isolating strong rhizo growth on agar my potency has been excellent. Haven't had a lackluster batch ever since.


So you've isolated based on vigor on agar, and found it correlates with potency?

#23 KapnDank

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Posted 11 August 2019 - 05:58 PM

I can't say for sure as I've only isolated 5 or 6 strains on agar so far. So I could just be getting lucky. I will come back and comment if my luck runs out though. I don't wanna spread bad info.
Maybe someone can chime in if they've gotten weak fruits from ideal looking cultures?

#24 TVCasualty

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 01:02 PM

https://www.sciencea...l-gene-transfer

 

https://bigthink.com...shrooms-evolved (this one even talks about how it could give them a bad ride, making it less likely they'll eat it again) 

 

It think you may have misunderstood my post.  All I meant was psilocybin is a defense mechanism.  At the end stages of life, the hypothesis is that the fruit puts more energy into preparing for spore drop than the continued manufacturing of psilocybin.  I'm not saying all of it goes away, but it stands to reason there is a reduction in its production therefore a drop in potency.   

 

Thanks, those links eventually got me around to a story on The Atlantic that I'd read back when it came out in 2017 outlining the hypothesis.

 

And the articles have some compelling points, but psilocin/psilocybin as a defense mechanism is still just a hypothesis.

 

Some counter-points that I also find compelling include the fact that there is very little to no psilocybin/psilocin in vegetative mycelium (or we'd all be growing the hell out of it and not bothering to fruit our cultures). If the drug is used as a defense against getting eaten then it seems to me that it would be much more effective toward that goal if it were produced as soon as possible after the spores sprout (i.e., in the mycelium).

 

Also, the insects that eat mushrooms would be helping disperse the spores (by sticking to their bodies) and eating a mushroom does not harm the underlying mycelium, so mounting such a metabolically-expensive defense for a temporary and replaceable fruitbody seems like a waste of energy considering that the vast majority of successful mushroom species do not contain any of the molecules under discussion.

 

The effect on insects could very well be incidental and not the primary purpose of producing psilocin/psilocybin. Same goes for their effect on us, but these are just hypotheses as well.



#25 LegoMyego

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Posted 14 August 2019 - 01:40 PM

It is certainly just a hypothesis.  I think something to add is while most mushroom do not create psychoactive compounds, most produce some sort of toxic, poisonous chemical to deter insects and animals from consuming the developing fruit.  

 

I think your point about insects spreading the spores is a good one.  I think it supports the hypothesis even more however.  Psilocybin to keep the insects away while the fruit is developing, reduction in the chemical when it is time for spore drop.  



#26 thehawk420

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Posted 15 August 2019 - 09:11 AM


 

"Some counter-points that I also find compelling include the fact that there is very little to no psilocybin/psilocin in vegetative mycelium (or we'd all be growing the hell out of it and not bothering to fruit our cultures). If the drug is used as a defense against getting eaten then it seems to me that it would be much more effective toward that goal if it were produced as soon as possible after the spores sprout (i.e., in the mycelium)."

 

 

 

Apparently there is substantial psilly in Viva and certain mexican varities of mycelium.........

 

 


Edited by thehawk420, 15 August 2019 - 09:12 AM.


#27 TabbyBoy

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Posted 16 August 2019 - 01:09 AM

It takes me a good 2.5 to get off on my B+.
I found them to be a very light, loving mushroom though, less of a mindfuck!
Which for many is disappointing. Including me.

#28 TVCasualty

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Posted 17 August 2019 - 06:33 PM

 

Apparently there is substantial psilly in Viva and certain mexican varities of mycelium.........

 

 

I would be curious to know the details surrounding that discovery. Specifically at which point in its ife cycle the mycelium was tested for the presence of actives, and how the sampling was done.

 

I've taken an apple peeler to a spent (but uncontaminated!) cake that looked pretty rough and was stripped of all pins and aborts before using the peeler. I made a tea with the peelings (I basically scraped the outer 1/8" of the cake off) and tripped much harder than expected.

 

While there were no pins or aborts present, there were plenty of undeveloped knots on it when I scraped it.

 

Which is to say that I'm curious if the mycelium was tested before or after the culture was put into fruiting conditions and had begun to form primordia/knots.


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