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How do I get seedless outdoor crops?


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#1 Stroker

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Posted 20 August 2019 - 11:48 PM

I live in the Midwest and have ordered some good feminized seeds in the past. My plants get huge, but are full of seeds. Is the hemp (which is everywhere) pollinating it I assume? Would feminized autos in the spring before the hemp flowers open be my best choice?
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#2 Juthro

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 12:04 AM

Great question, I don't know the answer, but I wish I did.  So I'm giving you a bump, and I'm going to follow to see if I can learn something :)

 

(BTW, welcome to the 'topia)


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#3 PJammer24

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 08:43 AM

I live in the Midwest and have ordered some good feminized seeds in the past. My plants get huge, but are full of seeds. Is the hemp (which is everywhere) pollinating it I assume? Would feminized autos in the spring before the hemp flowers open be my best choice?

 

How many times has this happened to you? Sometimes feminized seeds will turn hermaphrodite and pollinate themselves... I spent 7 years in southern Ohio, also the Midwest, growing outdoors. There is some "ditch weed" growing throughout the country that has spread from when industrial hemp was being grown, especially around WWII... but I have never heard of this leading to serious issues with seeds.  If you really thing that is the issue, which I doubt, I would just clear your general area of the stuff... If your plants are not right on top of the "ditch weed" you are not going to get plants that are "filled" with seeds... You may get a seed here and there from some pollen that got caught on the wind but not fully seeded...

 

From the sound of it, I think, most likely, your feminized seeds turned hermaphrodite. It can happen due to the genetics of the plant, some are more likely to do it than others even with feminized seeds, or it could happen due to stress, or it could be a combination of the two...

 

I am curious to know how many times this happened to you? Was this a one time thing or has this happened consistently over a number of years?

 

:biggrin:


Edited by PJammer24, 21 August 2019 - 03:29 PM.

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#4 Stroker

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 06:13 PM

Three years in a row, different genetics from different seed banks each year. Clearing the ditch weed isn't really an option as it's literally every where. The land I grow on maybe five acres is mostly clear of it but the surrounding land is not. Took a break this year as I just didn't know if it was worth it.

Edited by Stroker, 21 August 2019 - 06:14 PM.

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#5 hyphaenation

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Posted 21 August 2019 - 09:49 PM

Start with a non-hermaphrodite strain and kill all males anywhere in the vicinity...

 

If your neighbours grow Hemp or something there are pollen-free cloth that still allows light through that you can buy to make a pollen-free greenhouse...


Edited by hyphaenation, 21 August 2019 - 09:49 PM.

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#6 el_ronhub_bird

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 12:02 PM

You could sprout some of the seeds to see if they look like hemp or if they look like your strains. Just to see who the father is..."you ARE the father!" to quote Maury

#7 PJammer24

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 12:12 PM

I have never heard of anyone having this problem and I have grown in multiple midwest states... Unless you are living on a former hemp plantation, I don't see how this could be happening...

 

Is there any ambient light getting to your plants during the evening? This is often the cause of hermaphroditic plants and hermaphroditic plants can be full of seeds...

 

Are they experiencing any stress? Are they watered regularly? Over watered? fed? over fed?

 

I have had male plants growing within 15-20 yards of female plants and had only sporadic seeds... I find it difficult to picture so much wild hemp that you could not clear an area around your plants enough that the seeding is minimal.

 

I maintain that your plants were likely hermaphroditic or at least one of them was...

 

You can go the auto-flower route but the quality of flower produced can not compare.


Edited by PJammer24, 22 August 2019 - 12:56 PM.

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#8 Coopdog

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 12:29 PM

Pjammer24 is most likely right on this one. I tried literally dozens of feminized strains when I was a test grower for some well known seed banks. Literally all of them produced some hermaphroditic flowers. They weren't full of seeds though, and maybe had sporadic seeding of immature and not so viable seeds if they did seed themselves. A lot of truth in what people have said here, you are going to have to clear an area of the ditchweed around your plants or take up indoor growing then. I suggest trying some regular seeds and cull the males and see if you have the same problem. After growing a couple dozen different feminized varieties I didn't find any of them to be as pallatable as the natural seeds properly grown. Seen ditchweed here and there when I lived in Ohio, but it seemed to only grow in patches. If I lived in a place where it grew all over the place, I would sure as heck be sowing tons of good seeds in with it in hopes of bringing up the quality of it to something smokeable! :) Good luck...


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#9 el_ronhub_bird

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 01:49 PM

There are breeders who have isolated the autoflowering trait into less than 1% of the overall genetic makeup of certain strains. Some of these strains have as high of THC content as regular photo strains. Much progress has been made very fast. Autos are much different now than they were even a couple years ago. Lots of them even have exotic terpenes not found in regular photo strains. So to people who claim autos are of lower quality, I respectfully call bullshit. I challenge anyone who disagrees with this to experiment yourself with some newer auto strains. Mephisto has some really great strains. And to OP, yes I would recommend trying some autos. Like you said yourself, you may be able to dodge unwanted pollen by having all your plants flowered out before other outdoor plants release their pollen
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#10 PJammer24

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 01:57 PM

There are breeders who have isolated the autoflowering trait into less than 1% of the overall genetic makeup of certain strains. Some of these strains have as high of THC content as regular photo strains. Much progress has been made very fast. Autos are much different now than they were even a couple years ago. Lots of them even have exotic terpenes not found in regular photo strains. So to people who claim autos are of lower quality, I respectfully call bullshit. I challenge anyone who disagrees with this to experiment yourself with some newer auto strains. Mephisto has some really great strains. And to OP, yes I would recommend trying some autos. Like you said yourself, you may be able to dodge unwanted pollen by having all your plants flowered out before other outdoor plants release their pollen

 

 

I have never had auto-flowering plants produce similar quality to a typical female plant... This led me to stop growing auto-flowers in general years ago... Most of the people I know don't grow them for the same reasons. If the quality has been improved in the last two years, that's awesome, but I would not "call bullshit" when you know very well that historically the quality has been inferior for years... If that has changed, well, that's a different story and I have not had the opportunity to see it.


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#11 Stroker

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 06:56 PM

The patch is planted close to a spring fed pond, and close enough for the hose to reach in the heat of summer. There is a outdoor lidht about fifty yards away, that I suppose could be my culprit for any hermaphroditism. I usually start them indoors in early March, so I might just go back to regular seeds and try a few auto for the hell of it this spring.
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#12 el_ronhub_bird

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Posted 22 August 2019 - 08:16 PM

There are breeders who have isolated the autoflowering trait into less than 1% of the overall genetic makeup of certain strains. Some of these strains have as high of THC content as regular photo strains. Much progress has been made very fast. Autos are much different now than they were even a couple years ago. Lots of them even have exotic terpenes not found in regular photo strains. So to people who claim autos are of lower quality, I respectfully call bullshit. I challenge anyone who disagrees with this to experiment yourself with some newer auto strains. Mephisto has some really great strains. And to OP, yes I would recommend trying some autos. Like you said yourself, you may be able to dodge unwanted pollen by having all your plants flowered out before other outdoor plants release their pollen



I have never had auto-flowering plants produce similar quality to a typical female plant... This led me to stop growing auto-flowers in general years ago... Most of the people I know don't grow them for the same reasons. If the quality has been improved in the last two years, that's awesome, but I would not "call bullshit" when you know very well that historically the quality has been inferior for years... If that has changed, well, that's a different story and I have not had the opportunity to see it.

Maybe my language was a bit harsh, I meant no disrespect by it. Autos have HUGE potential, like revolutionary potential. If you're interested enough to try again, like I said, I'd recommend anything from Mephisto. Other companies are kinda hit or miss when it comes to autos but Mephisto is on point. The reason I call them revolutionary is because they take growing out of the hands of specialty gardeners and places it in the hands of average folks. No special equipment needed. If one can grow a tomato plant, one can grow an auto
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#13 Coopdog

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 01:38 AM

I no longer grow pot, living in a legal state and having a decent income, it just was no longer worth the effort nor the legal aspect. However, I tried a LOT of auto flower strains as Gypsy sent me at least 15 or so and also got some others from other breeders. This was between 1991-97 approximately and literally almost universally they had a hint of rope from the ruderalis that was bred into it to make it autoflower. Early Misty and Early Pearl (From Gypsy Nirvana)  were both exceptionally good and tasty varieties and I believe they both have similar parentage. They both came out with damn near true quality buds and were exceptionally low priced back in those days. You almost make me want to get some just to throw them out back and try them. Mephisto was a guy I remember from Overgrow and it is very good to know he is still out there and doing what we all loved so much. 

 

I had a good stash of my own beans until the year before last, when I had a hard time germinating some. I gave my entire stash of primo beans to a younger grower who had the real passion to attempt to grow them, and successfully did. I would give my eye teeth to have some fresh Butterscotch Hawaiian G13 Hashplant beans to play with and get that started again. That was the most worthwhile cross I ever came across in my life and was truly some of the finest pot to ever cross my lips. Damn those were the days!


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#14 PJammer24

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 10:38 AM

Perhaps my experience is not the standard



#15 hyphaenation

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 03:24 PM

Autos are very different now then in the early 90's. Those were straight ruderalis crosses and were not 60 day AF's as we know them now. Starting with joint doctors Lowryder and moving though thousands of other crosses today's autos are a whole different beast. Still not everyone's cup of tea but definitely better then the plants from 91

#16 el_ronhub_bird

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 03:43 PM

There is just so much potential! For example, a 14 week haze (100% sativa) would never finish in a northern climate. Shit 8 week indicas can barely finish here. Now, breed the autoflowering trait into that haze. Refine it til the plants are 99% haze and 1% ruderalis. Now you have a haze that can be grown ANYWHERE!
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#17 Microbe

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Posted 23 August 2019 - 06:02 PM

I live in the Midwest and have ordered some good feminized seeds in the past. My plants get huge, but are full of seeds. Is the hemp (which is everywhere) pollinating it I assume? Would feminized autos in the spring before the hemp flowers open be my best choice?

If plants that were germinated from feminized seeds are producing seeds then then it comes down to genetics.

If i female plant is producing seeds and crazy as it might sound, you have a very aggressive genetics ie the plants will to reproduce.

Female plants will self pollinate if given enough time but stress in flowering is the major player. Outdoor plants are exposed to much more stress then indoors (assuming you have a dialed in ID Grow) and im guessing thats what is happening.

Are you getting nice looking seeds that you would want to germinate or are you getting a few here and there and most of them are small and white?

Hemp can and will cross-pollinate with other cannabis plants. This is why, and when.....not if, industrial hemp farms pop up everywhere will be a major....major.....major....detriment to out door cannabis farms.

Genetics, stress, bloom to long, and cross-pollination are whats happening.

“It is always the simple that produces the marvelous.” —Amelia Barr
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#18 wildedibles

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Posted 26 August 2019 - 05:43 PM

I'm having a simular issue I think stress and genitics are my issue thanks for helping me learn...

... Someone mentioned evening light? My seedy one has been flowering a long time now filling in nice... But I see the seeds forming.... Lol I've been eating them.... If mine is too seedy we will eat and save seed and make some yummy butter.... Has a nice peppery taste
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#19 Microbe

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Posted 27 August 2019 - 09:03 AM

I'm having a simular issue I think stress and genitics are my issue thanks for helping me learn...

... Someone mentioned evening light? My seedy one has been flowering a long time now filling in nice... But I see the seeds forming.... Lol I've been eating them.... If mine is too seedy we will eat and save seed and make some yummy butter.... Has a nice peppery taste

Evening light can stress them out but it would have to be obvious source such as a pole light or bright security light in the vicinity. Plants will adapt and learn to ignore insignificant light sources. This is why i dont wory about having 1000 pinholes in my tent.

“It is always the simple that produces the marvelous.” —Amelia Barr
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#20 wildedibles

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Posted 27 August 2019 - 09:28 AM

I'm having a simular issue I think stress and genitics are my issue thanks for helping me learn...
... Someone mentioned evening light? My seedy one has been flowering a long time now filling in nice... But I see the seeds forming.... Lol I've been eating them.... If mine is too seedy we will eat and save seed and make some yummy butter.... Has a nice peppery taste

Evening light can stress them out but it would have to be obvious source such as a pole light or bright security light in the vicinity. Plants will adapt and learn to ignore insignificant light sources. This is why i dont wory about having 1000 pinholes in my tent.
“It is always the simple that produces the marvelous.” —Amelia Barr

They are away from street lights....I was thinking evening sun one gets way more then the others and that one is in the sun all day....she is a beauty tho seedy or not .....ah will this one self pollinating effect other females in the area...maybe 10-20 feet away?.....they were not as stressed and have just started flowering.....stressed one was flowering a month now and just putting crystal on now.....sorry for the high jack but I think this could help others learning about seedy or preventing seedy weed




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