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Some Thoughts on Human Evolution


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#21 flashingrooster

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 05:17 PM

To be in true "Control" and I use that term subjectively. One would have to eradicate the unconscious mind. Not sure you can survive without it



#22 flashingrooster

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 05:25 PM

If you have a few hours to kill and have not watched this I would certainly recommend it. 

[Direct Link]

 

 

 

Or the brain with david eagleman is more of a scientific approach than anecdotal, an excellent watch a well. The latter has some very fascinating things about how our minds work


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#23 Alder Logs

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Posted 31 August 2019 - 11:57 PM

It's late but I'll go for just a note.  I lived a story for many of the years I have been in this incarnation.  To a good degree, that story was that of a world saver.  When the story, all my stories, were seen for what they were, it was also seen that there was not going to be any saving the world from my inhabiting that story.  It couldn't work at a practical level from there.  Sure, I want us all to live up to our full potential.  But here in time, my pushing the river will be futile.  I will weigh in on issues from where my reason tells me to, but it won't carry the same weight with anyone living their own stories.  

 

What I saw was that it is our dedication to an idea of identity that takes us to perform so many counterproductive actions.   So, I do go on about it, and it remains a horses to water kind of thing, here in the time world.  Our ideas of who we are as persons is bullshit, as that's not who and what we are.  We believe it, and to the degree we believe our stories are us, we are not true to what is.  We are in service to an idea, and not what is.   We play out all these parts and the world isn't going to be saved by it. 

 

Do we eventually evolve and the planet and its life goes on to some Eden?  I guess we wait and see.  Putting our thumb on the scales for our version isn't going to help much.  So, it's not me seeing for anyone else that our potentials can be met, that we can evolve.   The story we have about history and evolution and all of it; it's a story.  It's a remove from the present apprehension of what is, to what isn't.  

 

I probably can't join the conversation in a way that will seem to be understandable to many.   Anyone totally absorbed in their story will have created stories for everyone else, so theirs can seem to be working.  I know we can all break the spell.  I don't know when we'll do it.  But we are not those apes in 2001: A Space Odyssey.  I feel pretty sure of that.


Edited by Alder Logs, 01 September 2019 - 12:03 AM.

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#24 flashingrooster

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Posted 01 September 2019 - 10:03 AM

I hope you can get there some day Alder, everyone has to have something to believe in and I respect other peoples lines of thought. Like you said, nobody will understand your story like you do, or mine to myself. Personally I like this wild ride we are on, and I would not change it for anything. 

 

In the deep metaphysical realm you are talking about. Every person is experiencing a different reality unique to them. All of it just various forms of input running though our computers to spit out sight sound and touch experience. We all perceive this differently, if someone is colour blind and you both see two colours. Which one is reality? are not both at the same time? How can one persons be real and not the others. You are both clearly experiencing it. So what is a story ? an agreed upon reality that two can share perhaps

 

 

I think it is our ego that binds us to this physical world, and why people can perhaps have such profound experiences on psychedelics as that ego can be dissolved for a brief moment. 

 

Often I struggle with the word utopia, or heaven, or whatever form that takes for someone. This state of mind or place where everything is perfect and no bad feelings are ever felt. Perhaps it is my hominid brain that holds me back in my ability to see this. It just seems like one of those evil Genie wishes. Like everlasting life. On paper it seems like this great idea, but the reality is far from it. Having to watch ever single person in your life die is a curse not a blessing. And then  to have to repeat that over and over with anyone you might meet.

 

Is anything in life that comes super easy ever really rewarding? 

 

There is something very important to our light and dark, day and night cycle of this planet. A Ying and Yang relationship has spread itself across all life. This balance that seems to sort of manifest itself.

 

We are all made of stars though, so you will for sure move onto something else. We say matter cannot be created or destroyed. Then perhaps next state of being may not even be a conscious one. Perhaps the only true eternal bliss is nothingness. You die and then you no longer have to feel any of the positive or negative aspects of life. It would be the ultimate sense of whole if that makes sense?

 

Truly an idea can truly be an insidious thing. It is far more difficult to change a pre existing notion than to create and entirely new one. It is a difficulty we all must face

 

I guess at some point you just have to choose a story that fits you


Edited by flashingrooster, 01 September 2019 - 10:03 AM.


#25 Alder Logs

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Posted 01 September 2019 - 10:43 AM

 

It is far more difficult to change a pre existing notion than to create and entirely new one. ...

 

I guess at some point you just have to choose a story that fits you

 

...or, we can leave story behind, at least our identifying with it.

 

When my story was revealed to be a made up fantasy, the immediate tendency was to, as you suggest, have a new story.  With a little guidance, and the humility to look for that guidance, I found no new story would be true. What was left was being.    The training wheels can come off and we can take all the crashing that comes of it.  No story will sustain.   Why should we try to be anything but here, now?  



#26 flashingrooster

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Posted 01 September 2019 - 11:47 AM

Going to play devils advocate and say, is that not but your story though? The absence of story?  :biggrin: 

 

But for you it is not, and I can only accept that

 

I often get annoyed when people say I am an atheist. I say no, atheism is just another brick in that building. I am not part of that building

 

 I know what you are talking about though. I think for me that idea manifest itself in time. The fourth dimension.

  Just like  2d mario, running and jumping over the metal pipes and landing on spikes.  All he had to do was run around them. He could never comprehend a 3d world.

 

 

Someday perhaps we will be able to perceive it in a different way. It will change our fundamental understanding of existence



#27 Alder Logs

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Posted 01 September 2019 - 12:14 PM

I only try to be a possibility monger.  If we stop identifying with what we think is what is, what's left?  Do we cease to be?  Am I really going to be anything I might choose at any instant to think I am?  That thought will change, in that imagined dimension that seems to be this thing, time, with remembered pasts and projected futures.  But where are we always, eternally?  Ain't no escape from now, except in our fantasies.   

 

Now ain't a bad place to be.   All the other times carry the baggage of our surmises about them.   Some will fight to the death to have their ideas of past and future.  Meanwhile, what do they miss?


Edited by Alder Logs, 01 September 2019 - 12:15 PM.


#28 flashingrooster

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Posted 01 September 2019 - 12:38 PM

I wonder why do we so strive to escape the now?



#29 flashingrooster

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Posted 01 September 2019 - 12:39 PM

Is it the hope of promise that future can bring. Or the comfort of the past?



#30 flashingrooster

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Posted 01 September 2019 - 01:27 PM

Sorry we hijacked the tread TV,  but i hope we are talking about the evolution of the mind at some points



#31 LeeMush

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Posted 01 September 2019 - 03:31 PM

What is the possible need or proof of human evolution if there are cases of devolution, or handicaps, disfigurements from birth, mental handicaps, etc?

 

Is this just natural mutation? Feels like we are around just because a series, a verrrrry long series of successful mutations that Nature has deemed 'good enough'.

 

It therefore feels like way too many stars had to align and way too many lucky mutations have gotten us to where we can be full self-aware. Or maybe not enough that we can evolve further than we thought possible?

 

I cannot blame people for believing in a higher power to have a hand in our evolution when I really think about it. I guess that would be the perfect time for some people to argue that psilocybin was brought to us as an interference from extra-terrestrial means, and that is exactly the kind of 'high power interference' I had mentioned. 

 

Or maybe I'm just smoking too much and even in this forum, my rambles are a bit much. I'd love if I was wrong on t hat, however.



#32 TVCasualty

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Posted 01 September 2019 - 04:45 PM

Please don't take offense but I don't think anyone has truly gotten there. 
 To never experience, anger, jealousy, greed, fear, pain, loneliness. I think someone could pretend to feel that way, but not truly. Levels of control can certainly be achieved, but  I  like to take the dark, joker side look on things. I believe anyone can commit acts that in their wildest dreams, they can swear up and down they never would. You truly cannot know how you will react to to certain things until they happen to you. Like death, you mind has emotional barriers that prevent you from truly imagining what its like to lose a loved one. Because if you could imagine it, you would go insane
 What kind of a life would that really be anyway. To exist is to suffer . If you lose something or someone and it does not shock you emotionally. Did you ever really love it in the first place? Can there be love without loss?
 There is something very important to our flesh and blood existence, as it may be the only one we get.

I don't see why higher awareness or "enlightenment" would preclude the manifesting of basic human emotions so long as the enlightened one was still a human.

 

"Before enlightenment, I chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, I chop wood and carry water."


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#33 TVCasualty

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Posted 01 September 2019 - 04:53 PM

Our ideas of who we are as persons is bullshit, as that's not who and what we are.  We believe it, and to the degree we believe our stories are us, we are not true to what is.  We are in service to an idea, and not what is.   We play out all these parts and the world isn't going to be saved by it. 
 
Do we eventually evolve and the planet and its life goes on to some Eden?  I guess we wait and see.  Putting our thumb on the scales for our version isn't going to help much.  So, it's not me seeing for anyone else that our potentials can be met, that we can evolve.   The story we have about history and evolution and all of it; it's a story.  It's a remove from the present apprehension of what is, to what isn't.  
 
I probably can't join the conversation in a way that will seem to be understandable to many.   Anyone totally absorbed in their story will have created stories for everyone else, so theirs can seem to be working.  I know we can all break the spell.  I don't know when we'll do it.  But we are not those apes in 2001: A Space Odyssey.  I feel pretty sure of that.

 

 

I'm not trying to discuss who we are, or who we think we are. Or where we're going, or think we're going.

 

I'm trying to better understand who we were. Especially before we became who we are, whomever that may be.

 

Something-we-identify-as-us exists, since we're here discussing it. I am assuming that "we" as we currently exist have not existed in this form for eternity. That may be a bad assumption, but I'm doing the best I can with what I have to go on.

 

As such, there was something/someone that/who came before us.

 

It would be interesting to know what a chimp or bonobo or gorilla tells themselves their story is, and where they got such notions.


Edited by TVCasualty, 01 September 2019 - 05:11 PM.


#34 TVCasualty

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Posted 01 September 2019 - 05:09 PM

Sorry we hijacked the tread TV,  but i hope we are talking about the evolution of the mind at some points

 

No worries, there isn't any thread-jacking going on as far as I'm concerned. It's all connected.

 

 

 

And to reply to another point, I don't think that time exists as any kind of discrete force or dimension. Only motion exists, and everything we use to measure time actually quantifies repetitive motions. What we perceive as "time" is merely a chronicle of an object's movement through space.

 

Relativity seems to  support this idea, so I'm starting to suspect that a perceiver's perception of time is a function of the density of the perceiver's experience.

 

On the other hand, if time does exists as a force or dimension unto itself then it would almost certainly be two-dimensional, but we can only perceive one axis which is why it seems linear to us. Moving perpendicular to the now in time would be a quantum phenomenon, and would explain some of the stranger implications of Quantum Mechanics.


Edited by TVCasualty, 01 September 2019 - 05:13 PM.


#35 flashingrooster

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Posted 02 September 2019 - 01:12 PM

 

Please don't take offense but I don't think anyone has truly gotten there. 
 To never experience, anger, jealousy, greed, fear, pain, loneliness. I think someone could pretend to feel that way, but not truly. Levels of control can certainly be achieved, but  I  like to take the dark, joker side look on things. I believe anyone can commit acts that in their wildest dreams, they can swear up and down they never would. You truly cannot know how you will react to to certain things until they happen to you. Like death, you mind has emotional barriers that prevent you from truly imagining what its like to lose a loved one. Because if you could imagine it, you would go insane
 What kind of a life would that really be anyway. To exist is to suffer . If you lose something or someone and it does not shock you emotionally. Did you ever really love it in the first place? Can there be love without loss?
 There is something very important to our flesh and blood existence, as it may be the only one we get.

I don't see why higher awareness or "enlightenment" would preclude the manifesting of basic human emotions so long as the enlightened one was still a human.

 

"Before enlightenment, I chop wood and carry water. After enlightenment, I chop wood and carry water."

 

 

Could be that I am struggling with defining enlightenment 



#36 TVCasualty

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Posted 02 September 2019 - 01:15 PM

 

Could be that I am struggling with defining enlightenment 

 

 

I don't imagine that that's a struggle that will ever be resolved, though that is not the same as saying that enlightenment is not possible (merely that it's hard if not  impossible to define).



#37 flashingrooster

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Posted 02 September 2019 - 01:22 PM

 

Sorry we hijacked the tread TV,  but i hope we are talking about the evolution of the mind at some points

 

No worries, there isn't any thread-jacking going on as far as I'm concerned. It's all connected.

 

 

 

And to reply to another point, I don't think that time exists as any kind of discrete force or dimension. Only motion exists, and everything we use to measure time actually quantifies repetitive motions. What we perceive as "time" is merely a chronicle of an object's movement through space.

 

Relativity seems to  support this idea, so I'm starting to suspect that a perceiver's perception of time is a function of the density of the perceiver's experience.

 

On the other hand, if time does exists as a force or dimension unto itself then it would almost certainly be two-dimensional, but we can only perceive one axis which is why it seems linear to us. Moving perpendicular to the now in time would be a quantum phenomenon, and would explain some of the stranger implications of Quantum Mechanics.

 

 

It always blows my mind up when thinking about space time. Trying to wrap my head around time dilatation was a stretch

 

I watched an interesting show were they talked about our eye's performing a certain number of unconscious blinks per minute. This count slowly decreases as we age. These blinks are how our brain processes things happening live. So as you get older you literally perceive time to be going slower as your blink count decreases. Sure explains part of why children seem so impatient and old people so slow.



#38 flashingrooster

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Posted 02 September 2019 - 01:25 PM

 

 

 

It would be interesting to know what a chimp or bonobo or gorilla tells themselves their story is, and where they got such notions.

 

 

Very interesting indeed



#39 Alder Logs

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Posted 02 September 2019 - 01:30 PM

I must wait until they tell us.



#40 TVCasualty

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Posted 02 September 2019 - 01:43 PM

But they're already known to be liars, so we'll have to take what they say with a grain of salt.

 

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