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Pan Cyans HELP


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#1 Nurko65

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 09:36 PM

I have spent almost two years learning and optimizing gourmet mushrooms (various oysters, wine cap) as well as cubes using the PF TEK as well as other methods including bulk substrate. A couple of months ago I decided to try something a little more challenging and started with Pan Cyans, Australian strain. I started by making a liquid culture and a few petri dishes. The LC seemed to develop well although it took almost 2 weeks to grow a suitable culture but the petri dished showed no growth. I re-inoculated with 3 drops instead of one and did get some growth. I then used the LC, PD's and the original spores to inoculate a number spawn substrates including rye berries, wheat, millet and fresh and composted manure diluted with vermiculite. None of these showed any significant growth. One jar colonized about halfway down, then stopped. I shook it and the growth seemed to disappear. Most of the grains look the same as they did when I inoculated them, that is flowable but absolutely no growth. I never experienced any trich but did see some signs of bacteria after some time in the incubator. I do all the colonizing in a storage bin with a lid controlled at 27 - 28C. I open the lid occasionally but it is not airtight. I have used quarts but later exclusively pints. I add a very small mixture of gypsum and lime to the grains prior to pasteurization and 3 mls of peroxide prior to inoculation. I could go on and on (approximately 30 trials) but no luck. I then tried Pan bisporus from the same source and to make a long story short, had only marginal better luck. I am careful with sanitation and in fact started 2 quarts of cubes during this period and they are doing very well. Am I missing something or is it possible I got two bad batches of spores. I would appreciate any and all comments, questions and suggestions.



#2 ItBeBasidia

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 10:03 PM

I am having the same exact problem with the same exact strain. I also have grown an assortment of gourmets and exotics all with success, but these pan cyan Australians are stumping me. I'm wondering also if the supplier had a bad lot.

I've put 2 in fruiting conditions nearly 2 months ago with no results. I've tweaked air flow and casing moisture to nudge pins but nothing. The spawn for those also took very long to colonize their grain. I also have spawn that will not fully colonize the bottom. I've shaken some and its only hampered their growth.

I recently started pan cambo, so that will tell if it's my conditions that are at fault.

According to JOC, pan cyans are like SIDS prone babies and getting good genes is paramount to their success. All the Pan gurus threads I read (except bluehelix and waylit) like to germinate on agar and isolate certain sections. I didn't do that with mine yet because I feel MS allows for natural selection and adaptation to take place, but maybe it's just necessary for pan cyans to isolate first. I hope you get it it sorted with this strain.

#3 Asura

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Posted 04 September 2019 - 10:17 PM

A good cyans grow starts with good genetics. You want wispy and fast growth on your plates. If you don't have that

it's not worth proceeding from there. I have taken plates out as far as 9 transfers before to get what I want.

 

485012973-wispyandfast.jpg

 

If your mycelium is a little more dense than this, that's okay. But you definitely don't want to use anything that is

growing out slowly on plates...or is not somewhat uniform.

 

(For what it's worth, I grow everything out at room temp 72F. I only introduce the temps you mention at fruiting.)

 

The rest of it is good fruiting conditions:

  1. High rate of evaporation. This is the most important thing IMO. The casing layer needs to be pretty much constantly evaporating. That's why it's hard to fruit these without a GH of some kind and a humidifier. Pans pin best at near 100% RH. I usually am in the 96-98% range before first pins. After pins, I drop to 92-95%.
  2. Proper temps 77-82 is what I like. The temp needs to stay steady. A dip before first pins will mostly likely ruin your grow.
  3. Lots of FAE - again this is tricky because this needs to be done in a way where you are not screwing up the humidity. I introduce FAE during humidification...that is my humid air is also fresh. 

 

 


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#4 Rac3k

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 05:31 AM

If you just stared LC form spores its probably contaminated.

are your grains dry on the outside?

try whole oat grain with a little of hpoo as spawn...

 

Oh i see then Asura, i had so much dense white mat mycelium in my pan tropicalis grow and they fruited like shit  :tongue:


Edited by Rac3k, 05 September 2019 - 05:32 AM.


#5 Nurko65

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 09:32 PM

Hey guys, thanks for the quick and good responses.

ItBeBasidia, sorry for your misfortune, but it makes me feel a bit better. I was starting to question my procedures and equipment. The label fell off my syringe so I don't have the lot number but it may have been the same as yours. I ordered it in late May. I'd like to start again but with a different batch.

Asure, thanks for confirming the effects of genetics. So confirming, if the spores don't grow out on PD's, it's best to stop right there. When you say you took plates out 9 dishes, I'm assuming you started with a decent growing first plate. 

Rac3k, I have had success starting LS's from spores but I agree with you, this is risky. Yes, my grain does look dry on the outside. I assume this is good. The grain in a few jars started looking wet on the outside but I took this as bacteria. They were in the incubator about three plus weeks with nothing else going on!

 

Meanwhile, I will try some things with the bisporus spores I have left. I was so bummed by the cyans that I may not have given it my best. There is not a lot of info on this species. Are the growing conditions similar to the cyans? Is the potency similar to cyans and significantly more than cubes? Thanks again all.



#6 Asura

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Posted 05 September 2019 - 11:52 PM

I get all kinds of growth on plates. I'm looking for something similar to the pic above. If the plate grows slow or is really tomentose, I will

usually toss it. I will keep transferring until I get something uniform and yes, I only transfer if it's really fast. I have some plates now that are

from a pan Hawaiian mutation that dropped red spores. This stuff was super-aggressive on plates and very tomentose. Not only did it grow

out, it grew up to the lid. After 7 transfers, it's just now starting to look like what I want, so I will be putting it to grain soon (or LC).

 

Tomentose growth on plates, in my experience, is a good indicator that you will end up with overlay in yours trays. The mycelium will never

leave the vegetative state and it will completely consume everything and just die off. It looks like this:

 

bad overlay.jpg


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#7 Nurko65

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 05:16 PM

I made many jars including one grain jar inoculated with Pan cyan and one of Pan bisporus from petri dishes. These spawned only somewhat decent and I shook them but this seemed to set them back. So for the heck of it, I took them and spawned them to fruiting substrate consisting of composted manure and vermiculite. They seemed to recover nicely and I cased them with peat/vermiculite. Unfortunately, the mycelium in the dishes were only quarter sized and the resulting fruiting trays resulted per the attaches pictures. The cyan in particular looked like the mess you described. Do you have any comments or should I just discard the whole series of spores, LC's, dishes and grain spawn and start over? 

I may be misunderstanding you on how you select good growth on dishes. Do you keep trying from the same spores or transfers from dishes until you get a decent plate or do you simply discard all that resulted from those spores (print or syringe) and start over with a fresh set of spores?

 

Attached Thumbnails

  • Pan Cyan Fruiting Tray 91119.jpg
  • Pan bisporus 91119.jpg





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