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Is Vaping Under Attack?

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#21 TVCasualty


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Posted 10 September 2019 - 05:21 PM

I suspect that you could (if you tried) still get more nicotine from a vape than you got from your tobacco use, but that does depend on intentionally trying to and the rig you were using.


I have a few friends who have kicked tobacco with vaping, and in all cases they told me that they lost some ground occasionally by tapering to the next lower level of nicotine too soon. So they would drop from 8mg to 4mg a couple of months after dropping from 12mg to 8mg, but get way too antsy and start jonesin' too much, putting them at high risk of bumming a smoke to make up the difference. In some cases they did bum that smoke, and 30 minutes later bought a pack, and found themselves right back at square-1 after ~8 months of tapering.


Vaping a given concentration for at least three months before dropping to the next level seemed to allow tapering without jonesin' too hard to maintain the new level.


Also, in one case it was necessary to vape a 0mg mix for a while to taper off completely with minimal risk of relapse. The funny part of that is while he was vaping his 0mg mix, a different guy I worked with at the time was told by his doc that his blood pressure was at stroke-levels and he had to quit smoking and improve his diet (which was hideous) ASAP. He smoked a few more cigs while telling me about it because it was stressing him out, but then he said "So this is my last one," then he put it out, and to my amazement and admiration he really did quit right then, cold turkey, for good. The day before he'd been a 2-pack a day smoker. I will add that the following week was a very challenging one for all of us at work, lol.

Edited by TVCasualty, 10 September 2019 - 05:24 PM.

#22 Alder Logs

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Posted 11 September 2019 - 09:34 PM

Once again last night, the radio news was doubling down on the same story.  My only brush each day with major media is amping up my spidie sense.

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#23 Juthro


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Posted 11 September 2019 - 09:47 PM

So the CDC decides that its vitamin E oil in black market vape pens is the problem, so Trump decides to ban flavored nicotine juice?


I agree with Alder, this all seems like a set up, and con of some kind.   I wonder how trump is profiting on this move, cuz my spidey senses says he's not acting for the greater good of the rest of us.


It's worth remembering that vaping has been going on for years now, and only now, and then only in our country, has this problem appeared.  Does that not make you wonder what is really going on?






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#24 TVCasualty


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Posted 13 September 2019 - 12:59 PM

I'd guess that there is some opportunism going on.


The folks who want to regulate or ban the vaping of nicotine products are seizing the opportunity provided by the tainted THC cartridges to exploit the public's ignorance about the difference between them to use concerns generated by one to justify regulation of the other. 


Or at least the media is not exactly going out of its way to make the distinction clear.

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#25 TVCasualty


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Posted 16 September 2019 - 06:16 PM

I called it!


I didn't think this would happen so fast, though.



At this point I think the Michigan ban is stupid and will prove ineffective, but the problem definitely needs to be addressed somehow since it's getting so bad that we'll probably start to see people starting to smoke cigarettes in order to begin tapering off their extreme e-juice addictions (and I am not joking).




Vapers seek relief from nicotine addiction by turning to cigarettes


Lucas McClain started smoking cigarettes in high school but switched to vaping after he heard e-cigarettes were a safer alternative.


His vape of choice became Juul, the king of electronic cigarettes — which comes with a king-size nicotine hit.


Now 21, McClain wants to quit so badly that he’s turning back to the problem he fled in the first place: good old-fashioned cigarettes.


“Juul made my nicotine addiction a lot worse,” the Arlington, Va., resident said. “When I didn’t have it for more than two hours, I’d get very anxious.”


Even though McClain knows the dangers of cigarettes — lung cancer runs in his family — he thinks it might be easier to kick cigarettes than his Juul. Plus, his mom keeps warning him about the mysterious vaping-related illnesses that have sickened hundreds across the country.






It's all enough to give vapers a case of the vapors. And the article also illustrates the power of propaganda on parents (a group not known for critical thinking skills where their precious snowflakes are concerned, which is why groups of "concerned parents" should be dealt with as the active threats to civil liberties they generally are).


Incidentally, the guy in the article is wrong about it being easier to quit cigarettes than vaping. Cigs contain a lot of other stuff besides pure nicotine (such as ammonia to make it the nicotine version of crack) that make the addictive potential higher than nicotine alone, though that might be made moot by the ingestion of vastly more nicotine over a given time period.


What people need to come to accept is that there's no easy way out of an addiction and there will be some rough days along the way. Since anger is a reliable motivator for some things, it might help to think about how nicotine addiction has been made stronger on purpose and the chemistry has been manipulated by people who are trying to cash in on fucking up their customers' health.

Edited by TVCasualty, 16 September 2019 - 07:00 PM.

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#26 pharmer



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Posted 17 September 2019 - 07:24 AM

there's another factor in play


around here we're treated to multiple times per day ads for one of the major vape products companies just begging someone in the government to force them to label their products as not safe for people under 18 years, addictive, yada yada yada


when does anyone in their right mind beg the gummit to regulate them? unless they're seeking some kind of protection from the gummit within their own competitive circumstances


my guess is this is a final sorting out of the competitors in the market. Sam will squeeze some out and the remainders will be the next generation of Phillip Morris, Marlboro, Camel , etc which are likely owned by less than 5 holding companies


I expect to see something quite like this rumble through the cannabis industries before it all settles into something that looks just like the tax/regulate structure of the beer/wine/liquor industry


But this is a teachable moment about how gummit really works. Damn shame we have to have grey hair to have seen this cycle enough times to recognize it.


But just for shits and grins let's all say the mantra together. Ready, class????   WE'RE DOING IT FOR THE CHILDREN!!!!!!!!!!!


...............aaaaaaaaaaaannnndddd  after a few minutes to think about it - one could extrapolate this gummit/business nexus to the recent drone-on-oil field drama.  Pleeeeeeeeeeeeez global governor Trump, pleeeeeeeeeezzz stop those Iranians from killing the worlds' children(  insert video here of weeping, bloodied children)  ......................................................

Edited by pharmer, 17 September 2019 - 07:45 AM.

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#27 TVCasualty


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Posted 17 December 2019 - 09:25 AM

And the end-game of the attack campaign against vaping is finally revealed:


The Next Vaping

Big Tobacco claims to have created a safer cigarette. Is unleashing it a big mistake?
A glass-walled bastion of minimalism in a retail mall in Atlanta is the first of its kind in the United States. It looks like an Apple Store, but with a bouncer. You have to be 21 or older to enter. If you want to buy what’s inside, you must be a cigarette smoker. Or at least, you must tell the salesperson that you’re a cigarette smoker.


The store’s product is an electrified cylinder to be kept in your pocket. Branded “IQOS,” which is widely believed to be an acronym for “I Quit Original Smoking,” the device is the first in what’s expected to be a new class known as “heated tobacco” or “heat not burn” products.* They’re not vaping or smoking, but another way of inhaling the addictive stimulant nicotine.


The IQOS is USB-charged and about the size of a Sharpie. The far end has a port where you put a roll of tobacco that looks like a short cigarette. Overall, the aesthetic is closer to an asthma inhaler than to anything James Dean would have carried. Signifiers of smoking and vaping are absent: There is no flame, no smoke, and only a ghostly wisp to exhale.


No celebrities or red carpets were at the Atlanta store opening in September, like they were this month at the Munich opening. The product wasn’t authorized for sale in the U.S. by the Food and Drug Administration until April, and its seller didn’t know how well it would be received. And the pitch for the device is technically illegal for the company to say, since the FDA does not allow it: The IQOS is safer than cigarettes.



Nevertheless, the IQOS mall experience feels timed to appeal to the wary, weary consumer, conveying a sense of safety and authority absent from the off-brand vaping accoutrements on offer in dank bodegas. Arriving at this moment of panic, the heated-tobacco idea is poised to be a massively popular alternative. These devices could potentially become more ubiquitous than vaping, or even cigarettes.


At least, that is the stated goal of the company that makes them: the world’s most prolific seller of cigarettes, Philip Morris International (PMI). For the company (and its U.S. spin-off, Altria), heated tobacco is more than a dip of the toe into a novelty market. The cigarette giant says that it is staking its future on this new product, and that it has spent $6 billion in the past decade to develop it.



News organizations started focusing intently on the dangers of vaping around the same time that PMI and Altria were ready to launch IQOS in the U.S. In September, amid concerns about spikes in teen rates of use and the reported deaths, PMI put out a press release calling attention to the recent vaping-related lung injuries. “The company is clearly trying to position this product as a safer alternative to vaping and smoking,” Ayers told me.



I would not put it past the people who run such a company to put bad batches of vape pens and e-juice on the market in order to ensure that their $6 billion investment pays off.


Timing, as they say, is everything. And sometimes it can be really suspicious.


That's a rather large investment, and for ANY other retail product released by ANY other company there would be a marketing blitz with a lot of PR/fanfare surrounding the initial launch of a $6 billion product, but PMI's suspiciously low-key release in the U.S. strongly suggests that they damned well know they're 100% fuckery.


Of course, I also strongly suspect that the infamous Tylenol poisonings in the 1980's that brought about tamper-proof packaging was also staged to protect an investment and stimulate sales. Which succeeded beyond all expectations, apparently. The technology to counter the grave new threat to consumers just so happened to be ready to go to market (at scale!) immediately after the deaths were reported and there was no hesitation to mandate their use because it sucks to get cyanide when you thought you were taking acetaminophen. And such poisonings never happened again, oddly enough, which seems very unlikely for a random poisoner/serial killer-type person. I guess I'm kind of cynical about some stuff, but that doesn't mean I'm wrong.



So I wouldn't be surprised at all to learn that PMI intentionally facilitated a bit of "collateral damage" to ensure they won the nicotine addiction-management war (which they appear to be about to do). I'm sure they learned a hell of a lot about PR and spin-doctoring from the decades of horrible press the tobacco industry in general has faced and from their abysmal corporate reputation in particular. Those lessons probably did not involve higher moral and ethical standards.




Walking away from nicotine in all of its forms renders all of this lunacy moot, but PMI has bet $6 billion that the general public is not strong enough to resist it. They are probably correct in their assessment, unfortunately.

Edited by TVCasualty, 17 December 2019 - 09:26 AM.

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#28 Myc


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Posted 17 December 2019 - 10:09 AM

You're not so far out there TVC. - I suspected the same thing but sometimes, I wonder if I'm just being overly cynical. It's comforting to hear that my private suspicions are shared by others. 


And man.....I had totally forgotten about the Tylenol poisoning "scare". Even as a young man, I couldn't fathom what would be the motive for such an act. It just never resonated and always felt "weird" - like 9/11 was just weird. Your version makes much more sense. 

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