Paradox
©
Fisana

Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Mescaline extraction


  • Please log in to reply
15 replies to this topic

#1 BDCooper

BDCooper

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 8 posts

Posted 12 September 2019 - 02:16 PM

Hello all, as of late I have become very intrigued with mescaline and am looking to perform an extraction. I have read thoroughly through the posts and teks of kash/waylitjim/phineas and wonder if there are any more resources or information I should be privy to before attempting this. Any replies are greatly appreciated!
  • HailYeah likes this

#2 Myc

Myc

    El Jardinero

  • App Administrator
  • 8,060 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 12 September 2019 - 02:21 PM

Also look into work by Tregar.


  • Phineas_Carmichael, mushfun, Chips101 and 1 other like this

#3 BDCooper

BDCooper

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 8 posts

Posted 12 September 2019 - 04:23 PM

Thanks, have actually been looking for a breakdown of binding affinity of different psychs for a while! Very good addition.

:biggrin:  :biggrin:  :biggrin:  :biggrin:



#4 Phineas_Carmichael

Phineas_Carmichael

    Hooloovoo

  • Honorary Former Staff
  • 3,091 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 14 September 2019 - 12:11 AM

Number one piece of advice for any extraction: Make sure you have all your PPE assembled & have a suitable lab space set up before starting anything. Nothing worse than having the dog knock over your makeshift ring-stand and spilling a liter of caustic cactus juice all over the living room carpet...

 

Also get a fresh fire extinguisher & learn how to use it!  Not that extracting mescaline is inherently any more dangerous than any other extraction, I just think that everybody should have at least one (don't keep it in your kitchen!) & I'm shocked by how many people don't or still have the one they got when they bought their house in 1987.

 

I may not sign in much anymore, but I still check Botanicals regularly while I'm on break at work so I'm available if you have any questions.  Keep us updated, you know I love me some clandestine chemistry!


Edited by Phineas_Carmichael, 14 September 2019 - 12:11 AM.

  • Myc, Juthro, Chips101 and 2 others like this

#5 HailYeah

HailYeah

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 10 posts

Posted 14 September 2019 - 01:10 AM

I wish I had personal knowledge on this to share with you but I’m a super newbie brother. My advice would be check out Willy Myco. I’ve used a lot of his stuff and he even has a DMT extraction video so hit him up and hopefully you’ll find what you’re looking for. Best of luck and namaste brother.
  • Chips101 likes this

#6 BDCooper

BDCooper

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 8 posts

Posted 14 September 2019 - 11:42 PM

...I'm available if you have any questions.  Keep us updated, you know I love me some clandestine chemistry!

 

Wow, Phineas himself! I'm happy to see you're still at it! I have all my PPE as well as all my other supplies organized and ready to rock when I get the chance though that's a while off yet. No animals to worry about besides myself in the work-space luckily. Fire extinguisher is up to date, and I'm all to familiar with P.A.S.S., though unsure if class B should suffice?

 

If you are offering then I see no reason to not take the chance to ask about my procedure. My plans are as follows:

1.) Adding 1kg dry cactus powder to 2l distilled [email protected]%, adding distilled water until thoroughly saturated.

2.)Add 10L dh20 and simmer for 2 hours or until more viscous in consistency.

3.)Strain biomatter from liquid using cheesecloth into new pot and reduce volume. Rewash biomatter until color change diminishes and discard.

4.) Reduce all washes until slightly syrupy(?) but do not burn. allow to precipitate overnight.

 

5.) Mix 150g NaOH in 450 ml dh20 in ice bath. Add to cactus solution until pH ~12. 

6.) Add 500 ml toluene to each container and mix well. Allow to settle using hot water bath to help demulsify if necessary. Separate toluene layer from the basic water carefully and collect into single container. 

7.) Use 500 ml dh20 and 20 ml hcl to create a solution with a pH of 5 or less. add increments of 5 ml until achieved. Add 200 ml of solution to xylene pull. mix well. 

8.) Seperate layers, filter and save acidic layer and repeat pulls on xylene until no more yield. evaporate aqueous mesc hcl solution in dish.

 

This is just a rough rundown, being more than welcome to changes and improvements.

Appreciate all that I've already learned from you. Thanks for the reply!

:rolleyes:  :rolleyes:


  • Phineas_Carmichael likes this

#7 Phineas_Carmichael

Phineas_Carmichael

    Hooloovoo

  • Honorary Former Staff
  • 3,091 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 15 September 2019 - 01:42 AM

Looks like you've got a real solid grasp of the chemistry. Well done!  :thumbs_up:

 

I'd recommend not doing a whole kilo for your first extraction though, that's a lot of powder to deal with & a lot to lose if something goes wrong.  My buddy Freddy usually did 100g extractions as needed because they were a lot more managable in the glassware that he had and he wasn't trying to stockpile a huge head-stash of mescaline.  The molecule stores marginally better in the plant than it does as a salt anyway, plus it's not a felony to have some powdered cactus "incense" lying around.  I usually recommend starting small and scaling up once you've got a few extractions under your belt. 

 

You could run that protocol as written and end up with 10g of mescaline HCl.  Great write-up.  I just have a couple super minor details that you might want to be aware of:

...

3.)Strain biomatter from liquid using cheesecloth into new pot and reduce volume. Rewash biomatter until color change diminishes and discard.

...

Cactus powder and water can make some kind of crazy non-newtonian fluid which can be ridiculously difficult to filter and cheesecloth is sometimes not the best filter media.  A clean cotton t-shirt, pillowcase, or flour sack towel in a funnel plugged with a cotton ball is sometimes better.  Alternately, you might be better off transferring your acid wash to a jug, letting the powder settle in the fridge overnight, & decanting off the liquid instead of filtering, at least for the first few acid pulls.

...

5.) Mix 150g NaOH in 450 ml dh20 in ice bath. Add to cactus solution until pH ~12. 

...

You should be good with pH 12, but don't be afraid to go higher.  Mescaline's pKa is 9.56 so technically you only need to go to 11.56 to get 99% of the molecule as freebase, but the higher the pH, the quicker the layers separate and emulsions can be a major loss vector in cactus extraction.  That's also a wicked strong NaOH solution... I calculate the pH of that solution as 14.9! You could add 150g to 2L of water and still have a solution with a pH of 14.2 -- 40g NaOH per liter gets you pH 14, and since pH is a logarithmic scale adding more than that doesn't increase the pH by that much anyway.  It's better to overshoot than undershoot, but save your lye for cleaning out the shower drain.

...

6.) Add 500 ml toluene to each container and mix well. Allow to settle using hot water bath to help demulsify if necessary. Separate toluene layer from the basic water carefully and collect into single container. 

7.) Use 500 ml dh20 and 20 ml hcl to create a solution with a pH of 5 or less. add increments of 5 ml until achieved. Add 200 ml of solution to xylene pull. mix well. 

8.) Seperate layers, filter and save acidic layer and repeat pulls on xylene until no more yield. evaporate aqueous mesc hcl solution in dish.

...

pH 4-5 is good for the salting solution, much lower than that tends to pull more molecules & can result in a "brown sanchez" product that requires cleanup. A vigorous mortar and pestling under ice cold anhydrous acetone followed by vacuum filtration will definitely clean it up nicely but we want to avoid that if we can and get clean product right off the throw. I seem to remember a dual-solvent recrystallization with MEK and H2O from Tregar but I'm probably getting ahead of myself here...

 

No need to filter the aqueous layer if you have good separation, that's just a loss vector as there will be mescaline in your filter media when it dries.  

 

Also the obligatory "don't throw anything away until you have a product at the very end."

 

=======

 

And now for some questions just for giggles:

 

1) How are you planning to separate layers? That 1L sep funnel that Freddy bought is the best $30 he ever spent...

2) Have you thought about defatting the initial acidic extraction with toluene? Might make for an easier time with emulsions in the base phase.

3) It's been 7 years since my last chat with Grandfather, can I crash on your couch for a day or two? (Just kidding, of course :laugh:)


  • Sidestreet likes this

#8 BDCooper

BDCooper

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 8 posts

Posted 15 September 2019 - 12:33 PM

I will most definitely do a trial run with 100g to start, was considering it prior and your input confirms it. Decanting sounds like a great alternative as you said and I will implement that. The finer points on basing/salting were very much needed, I'll incorporate that into my notes. 

 

 

And now for some questions just for giggles:

 

1) How are you planning to separate layers? That 1L sep funnel that Freddy bought is the best $30 he ever spent...

2) Have you thought about defatting the initial acidic extraction with toluene? Might make for an easier time with emulsions in the base phase.

3) It's been 7 years since my last chat with Grandfather, can I crash on your couch for a day or two? (Just kidding, of course :laugh:)

 

1. Separatory funnel is my plan as you said, I have a friend who is an org chem major and got it at his behest.

2. I have considered it and will probably do such, as I've seen you recommend it before. From my understanding so long as the mescaline is thoroughly salted i.e. citrate or acetate in this situation, it wont be pulled along with the fats and tannins?

3. I always have a warm meal and bet at the ready! But why so long without visits? This will be my first with Mescalito, I'm excited to meet him!


  • LBowDeep likes this

#9 JustAnEyedea

JustAnEyedea

    *UNTRUSTED MEMBER*

  • Guest
  • 644 posts

Donator


Awards Bar:

Posted 16 September 2019 - 12:48 AM

Thanks for this. I've always wondered how this was done. Are there pros/cons to using dried vs fresh?

#10 Phineas_Carmichael

Phineas_Carmichael

    Hooloovoo

  • Honorary Former Staff
  • 3,091 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 20 September 2019 - 02:49 AM

...
2. I have considered it and will probably do such, as I've seen you recommend it before. From my understanding so long as the mescaline is thoroughly salted i.e. citrate or acetate in this situation, it wont be pulled along with the fats and tannins?
...


Yep. The mescaline exists as a salt in the plant anyway, but we add acid to make sure that 99.9+ % of our target molecule is a salt in solution. "Fats" and "Tannins" are more soluble in non-polar solvents than our target "salt" molecules.

 

*Edit* Just make sure the pH of the solution is below 6.56. At that point 99.9% of the mescaline is a salt and insoluble in the non-polar solvent.

3. I always have a warm meal and bet at the ready! But why so long without visits? This will be my first with Mescalito, I'm excited to meet him!

Life happens, my man. Unfortunately my buddy Freddy's sloop was lost during Hurricane Danny in 2015. Freddy managed to cling to the mast and washed ashore in the Lesser Antilles somewhere north of Grenada. I haven't heard from him since, but I like to imagine he's doing well, rocking extractions with "glassware" made from coconuts & tripping his balls off on strange Caribbean plants!

Since then I've acquired a house, a career (with a fortune 100 company that drops random drug tests on 25% of the workforce every year) and 5 cats that I have to feed. Life was so much easier when I was a college student managing a gas station with a buddy who lived on a boat in International Waters!

Maybe once I retire I'll be able to turn my basement into a lab & carry on with Freddy's work, but for the next 30 years or so I have to be a wage slave :dry:

Thanks for this. I've always wondered how this was done. Are there pros/cons to using dried vs fresh?


Dried cactus allows one to calculate yield. If one does an extraction on 100g of cactus powder and gets 1g of mescaline they know they have hit the nail on the head with a perfect 1% extraction and they probably can't get anything more out of their powder. Fresh cactus is 90% water & that can make it difficult to know when to stop extracting. Plus to that, fresh cactus tea tends to be snot-like, and exceedingly difficult to filter.

Fresh cactus is generally used to make tea for a "full-spectrum experience." There are a lot of alkaloids that aren't extracted in protocols like this that contribute to the experience.

Extracted Mescaline HCl is VERY different from drinking cactus tea.


Edited by Phineas_Carmichael, 20 September 2019 - 02:59 AM.

  • Sidestreet, Thirdeyeplants and LBowDeep like this

#11 LBowDeep

LBowDeep

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 42 posts

Posted 19 October 2019 - 08:58 AM

I'm so grateful for this informational thread, thanks to those contributing.  I've had cactus tea but never mescaline--I've been told before they are extremely different experiences.  I wonder if there's a general consensus as to which species of cactus is optimal for mescaline extraction?



#12 pharmer

pharmer

    Mycotopiate

  • OG VIP
  • 4,559 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 19 October 2019 - 09:05 AM

IME they are not Extremely different, just different. The crystals give a slightly lesser overall mindfuck but the convenience and reduced body load makes up for it.

 

Consider that the point of the extraction is to get pure mescaline, which is by definition, a pure chemical molecule. The molecule doesn't recognize its parents, it just is..........a specific molecule, the same way H20 is a specific molecule.

 

We stand on the shoulders of giants when it comes to extractions. They've been tested and true for a hundred years or more to get one specific molecule. There may be impurities in the molecule but we have ways to deal with them too. But, for the most part, the basic extraction procedure gets you what you want in a very useful form.


  • LBowDeep likes this

#13 LBowDeep

LBowDeep

    Mycophiliac

  • Free Member
  • 42 posts

Posted 19 October 2019 - 09:28 AM

IME they are not Extremely different, just different. The crystals give a slightly lesser overall mindfuck but the convenience and reduced body load makes up for it.

 

Consider that the point of the extraction is to get pure mescaline, which is by definition, a pure chemical molecule. The molecule doesn't recognize its parents, it just is..........a specific molecule, the same way H20 is a specific molecule.

 

We stand on the shoulders of giants when it comes to extractions. They've been tested and true for a hundred years or more to get one specific molecule. There may be impurities in the molecule but we have ways to deal with them too. But, for the most part, the basic extraction procedure gets you what you want in a very useful form.

 

Thank you for your help.  For the one question I should have asked: what cactus species has the highest concentration of the molecule by weight?



#14 pharmer

pharmer

    Mycotopiate

  • OG VIP
  • 4,559 posts

Awards Bar:

Posted 19 October 2019 - 02:08 PM

growing conditions have more to do with concentration per weight than species

 

it varies from less than 1 percent to over 3 in a rare and spectacular sample

 

don't get too hung up on species.

 

but, for what it's worth, most people will tell you you'll gamble better on Peruvians and Bridgesii

 

read the related threads, there are thousands of them. triangulate on what you read in them. then do it yourself. it's the only and best way to do this stuff unless you can jump in the pocket of somebody who is in the act of doing it.


  • Sidestreet likes this

#15 twoguysupnorth

twoguysupnorth

    Mycotopiate

  • OG VIP
  • 2,003 posts

Posted 06 June 2020 - 08:56 AM

Just refreshing myself on the procedure and picking up where I left off last year. Atm I have the filtered and defatted acid stage waiting for the day. Rainy day when I can relax on all the spring chores.

#16 Chips101

Chips101

    Mycophage

  • Free Member
  • 124 posts

Posted 08 June 2020 - 06:38 PM

Number one piece of advice for any extraction: Make sure you have all your PPE assembled & have a suitable lab space set up before starting anything. Nothing worse than having the dog knock over your makeshift ring-stand and spilling a liter of caustic cactus juice all over the living room carpet...

Also get a fresh fire extinguisher & learn how to use it! Not that extracting mescaline is inherently any more dangerous than any other extraction, I just think that everybody should have at least one (don't keep it in your kitchen!) & I'm shocked by how many people don't or still have the one they got when they bought their house in 1987.

I may not sign in much anymore, but I still check Botanicals regularly while I'm on break at work so I'm available if you have any questions. Keep us updated, you know I love me some clandestine chemistry!

Great advice on the extinguisher! One careless act will teach you you might wanna practice this shit.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk




Like Mycotopia? Become a member today!