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we must fight the pc police


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#21 PJammer24

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 05:13 PM

I don't feel the need for an unlike button, I am confident in my ability let folks know where I stand without one.    But I do agree with Roscoe, in that I think blanketing all progressive agenda as trash is not acceptable.  

I think the extreme in either direction is dangerous... I think extreme conservative views are just as trashy as extremely progressive/liberal views.... If you go too far in either direction, you are only considering a portion of the population... I am firmly in the middle, There are some progressive policies that I am all for, near the top of the list for me is leveling the playing field so that everyone has an equal opportunity to get a good education.  I am not opposed to all school taxes going into a universal pool and being given to schools in equal shares... I am on the fence about universal health care and too many benefits for people, I believe there are a lot of people who take advantage of the system and it may be best for this to remain a benefit of working hard to make yourself valuable to an employer... Before I get slammed, I said I was on the fence... I work my ass off, both at my job and at home, so I can live a life that I love... There are a lot of people I have met along the way who want to complain about their lives and how everything is unfair but they also don't wanna work hard to change their family's life... I have also known people who are received food stamp benefits, housing vouchers, and other benefits despite their only issue being that they were lazy... When I got out of rehab, I was offered emergency food stamps and free rent. I turned it down because at the halfway, I worked, put $2,000 in my pocket, and knew that if I made an effort, I would be fine... Working hard has allowed me to enjoy my "eclectic lifestyle" as Spudman85 has called it...

 

My dad was born into a lower middle-class neighborhood that is now the hood... He worked his ass off to give his family a nice life. We now have a 90 acre farm in the country, my mom has her horses, we have dogs running around everywhere, and it is great! All this when he grew up on a 0.05 acre lot... It really bothers me how many people arent willing to do what it takes to succeed and would prefer to take advantage of the system... This is why I drag my feet on universal anything despite understanding that there are people who do work hard and deserve the benefit... I have been up since 6am, I was at my first appt by 8:30 AM, and I am still at work despite it being passed 5... idk...


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#22 Juthro

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 05:56 PM

Health care is a big issue for me.  I can't support a system that will bill you more money then you are likely to make in your life time for the consequences of a single accident.   Even the poor and miserable deserve to have their wounds stitched, and their bones set.

 

And in my soul I don't think anyone should have to go to bed hungry, even the lazy bastards of the world.  Not when just a couple of years ago they were dumping tens of millions of gallons of milk on the ground that the department of ag had purchased due to there being a surplus.   It was all just wasted in the name of keeping the markets up.

 

I would much rather my tax dollars were spent on these things rather then on some military parade in honor of the current grand poobah.

 

 

 

 

 

 


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#23 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 06:12 PM

I really hope that no one sees what has been going on lately as progress. I am sick of the anger and hate they are shoving down our throats. It accomplishes absolutely nothing and causes divisions. Keep in mind, most solutions that are being touted right now remove more rights. We now live in a world where temper tantrums are the norm, and the loudest fits are coddled regardless of the long term outcome. The sacrifice of the few for the many is now the sacrifice of the masses for the few.

 

Just drop by any college or university you will have your mind blow at how far down the rabbit hole we have gone.  We even went so far as to pass legislation up here compelling speech. If you refuse to call me by my determined pronoun It is now illegal.  There is a big difference in treating someone with respect and dignity by using their preferred pronoun, than having to be compelled by the law to speak a certain way. This starts to get into that sticky area of hate speech now. Jordan Peterson tried to make a case for free speech but was just dismissed as a racist and bigot and whatever words that just get thrown around like candy at parade these days


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#24 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 07:03 PM

Some "woke" people can be obnoxious and lacking in nuance, but I think the basic idea - that we should punch up, not down, and that we should criticize those who abuse their strong sociopolitical position - is a good one. This is very different from what the alt-right is promoting, which is essentially a xenophobic, bigoted desire to return to an era of white male supremacy.

Many "woke" people are quite young, and I think it's natural for young people to present their opinions in blunt, unsophisticated ways - this is probably good, even, if it shakes up entrenched systems. Wokeness is irritating to me too, but I think it's at worst a misguided effort from people whose hearts are more or less in the right place.

As far as the "PC police", have you personally (or anyone you know in real life, celebrities and youtube personalities don't count) actually suffered undeserved material harm from the woke? Being yelled at on the internet doesn't count. I know people who've been physically attacked by right-wingers for their political activity (and I've personally received death threats for the same)...if you're going to make an equivalency, please back it up.

 

 I would say it's not so much about personal attacks, as it is about them changing all the rules to fit their doctrine. You don't even get a choice in the debate because the rules have all ready been changed. The no keeping score in sports idea is now evolving to no grades, how can anyone seriously think this is a good thing. That's how we figure out what you need to improve and work on. It's a coddling of the mind sold as happiness for all. That's the trap, you get called a person of hate for challenging it because the intent is to make things better.

 

 There are so many Idea's that sound great on paper it makes you wonder why anyone would be against it. They must just be bigoted assholes, and granted some of them are. The others are just people trying to criticize what they feel are bad idea's that get ruined when you add people. That exponential element can have dramatic effects to an idea. My friends who was a teacher's aid for special kids. She was plenty pc trust me, she would love to correct our speech. But even she can admit to the nonsense of it. We did away with the special classes as we were told it's to damaging and traumatic for these kids to be labeled different from the other students. Okay so they merge them to the benefit of nobody. Now all the students suffer because 90 percent of the attention goes to the special kids. She's like how is anyone supposed to learn when one kid is kicking and screaming on the floor and the teachers can't do a damn thing about it. There was a reason we separated kids, and it wasn't to make them feel bad. You see plenty of progressive changes being made at the grade school levels with my friends children. I would agree that it's fairly easy for me to ignore as a childless degenerate though


Edited by flashingrooster, 10 February 2020 - 07:06 PM.


#25 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 07:45 PM

I recall recoiling at some of the painfully naive stuff I've read by those who are trying to force society to change in ways or at a pace that it simply won't.

 

Language evolves organically and is extremely resistant to attempts to force it to change through some top-down proclamation or whatever. One example is the push to start referring to people as s/he or to add the prefix "cis" to your gender when referring to yourself as someone whose biological sex and gender identity match. I don't do that, nor do I intend to start. This is considerably different from organized efforts to stop using a particular word deemed to be discriminatory against a minority group.

 

Am I just being lazy and un-woke? Maybe, but that raises the question of what is more important when assessing wokeness; that I act according to principles of equality and tolerance or that I give those principles lip-service by following the latest trend in labeling?

 

Politicians are very good at the latter regardless of whether they really give a shit or not, and this is why an excessive focus on labels and words can be problematic. Respecting someone's choice of gender pronoun when referring to them doesn't mean I'm willing to hire them or not fire them for being who they are, or otherwise discriminate against them the same as always in the ways that actually matter. If you want to know how someone really thinks you usually have to ignore what they say and watch how they act.

 

My example is not trying to make direct comparison's as this was a violent extreme regime, and it will totally derail the conversation if we go down that road. So please nobody think that

 

Just saying you activated a memory of mine I wanted to share

 

Reminds me of when I was in Cambodia  and they were talking about Mao and Pol pot. Mao warned Pol not to try to force such dramatic change so quickly on the people as it would have devastating effects. He tried it in china and it took a great toll on the people. Pol wanted to do it even faster than Mao. Well if you have ever been there you can still see that country recovering from the destruction, and intelligence drain that the communist dictator brought upon them. Doctors and teachers slaving to death clearing forest for the rice fields and blowing up all the banks in Phnom Penh can really take it's toll in a modern society. Not to mention the outright genocide committed against perceived intelligent people. It went as far as you got killed just for wearing glasses. 

 

 

Back to the topic at hand

 

 like you said TV language usually evolves on it's own, most people around here could give to shit's about it. A big part of that being it's a small conservative farmer community. Get a little closer to the city and you get more and more corrected on your speech in daily conversations. Unfortunately for us it is now law compelling us to use those pronouns you speak of

 

Here is the the senate hearing on compelled speech for anyone who want's to sit through it... probably nobody. I understand it's long and dry and worst of all in Canada.... :chucks:

 

They certainly cover the issue from both sides, you be the judge

 

[Direct Link]


Edited by flashingrooster, 10 February 2020 - 07:49 PM.


#26 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 08:15 PM

 

 

Oh right my main point.

 

 So when you are out there and someone is pushing a progressive agenda. Feel empowered that it is trash rhetoric.

Whoa...Talk about trash...

 

Can we get an "Unlike" button?

 

I would like, to unlike this, very much.

 

I think the whole point of the post is that people are two opinionated and too quick to pass judgement which the "unlike button" request falls into...

 

I personally think that people are too sure that they are correct and that if you don't agree with them, you're wrong. In my nearly 40 years, I have developed some opinions but in many cases, I leave the door open to the possibility that there is a grey area where maybe we are both right on some level... Who am I to assume that my perspective is absolute and to judge people based on the confidence that I could not possibly be wrong... There is less respect these days for the possibility that there are many different perspective and beliefs out there.

 

I may not agree with you but that doesn't mean I have the right to put you down... I am prone to debate (possibly to a fault) and will dive right into a discussion but in a constructive way...

 

It is really sad how quickly people will attack the opinions of others...

 

 

Part of that problem PJ I think comes from the way we consume information now. People can take in a ton of new's articles and data in a short amount of time. I think this empowers us to feel educated on a subject and even pragmatic about it. Problem is they guy you are having a discussion with has the same pragmatism from his "propaganda" that he just spent two hours viewing. I say propaganda sarcastically as we often brush others off as uneducated in the subject at hand. So we really don't get anywhere when we are all so heavily indoctrinated one way or the other. Good luck trying to undue those couple hours of well written articles with my crappy writing comprehension. 

 

I think it's safe to say most people now use a digital form to get their news and information. It's really really easy to get caught up in echo chambers with app's built to feed you articles you click on the most. It quickly becomes an opinion feedback loop. Joe Rogan had a good point about this though. Don't use free new's app's and expect to get anything else but other peoples propaganda, nothing is free. 

 

 I think too people just get defensive about the word progressive too... I don't mean to just left bash here either, to be balanced I want to point out right has plenty of problems on their extreme side as well. You have probably heard of a regressive leftist though. That's the problem,  becoming dogmatic about the word assuming that the word means infallible change and direction of good. Examination and discussion without being called a racist, misogynistic, homophobic, bigot would be a nice start


Edited by flashingrooster, 10 February 2020 - 08:24 PM.


#27 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 08:18 PM

I don't feel the need for an unlike button, I am confident in my ability let folks know where I stand without one.    But I do agree with Roscoe, in that I think blanketing all progressive agenda as trash is not acceptable.  

  

That's why I let it be, after reading his comment it may not have been the best choice of words to describe what i wanted to say. Let's just go back the word political correctness for the sake of the discussion. It just feels bigger than that word for some reason. Not sure what to call it exactly


Edited by flashingrooster, 10 February 2020 - 08:22 PM.

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#28 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 10 February 2020 - 08:25 PM

It would be nice if both extremes went away so we could get back to some semblance of center. Isn't that what politics is all about, finding compromise between so many different opinions

 

Thanks for all the reply's today you guys got my brain on fire, in a good way  :biggrin:



#29 PJammer24

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 09:44 AM

Going back to the beginning of this thread... It should also be noted that people are more offended these days because these days we have access to, and spend more time around, people with different backgrounds, beliefs, and experiences... As recently as when I was a kid, there wasn't instant access to people across the globe via the internet... Before our world was this interconnected and before travel became simple, people spent a lot more time in their neighborhood surrounded by people who looked and thought like they did... You were exposed to a lot less that you were offended by...


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#30 Alder Logs

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 02:02 PM

I remember in the summer of 1964 I went to a movie and saw someone dressed up and quaffed in full 1964 Beatles garb.    I thought it was a thoroughly disgusting sight.  As a seventeen year old white boy, who had only seen black people close up in the bleachers at baseball games, and Mexican-Americans at a safe distance, before I was with them in boot camp, seeing that Beatle boy was to evoke what was truly my conditioned homophobia. 

 

So yes, exposure to media is one changing factor, but being around for 73 years in this age is another. 


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#31 Thacan

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 02:25 PM

I remember in the summer of 1964 I went to a movie and saw someone dressed up and quaffed in full 1964 Beatles garb.    I thought it was a thoroughly disgusting sight.  As a seventeen year old white boy, who had only seen black people close up in the bleachers at baseball games, and Mexican-Americans at a safe distance, before I was with them in boot camp, seeing that Beatle boy was to evoke what was truly my conditioned homophobia. 

 

So yes, exposure to media is one changing factor, but being around for 73 years in this age is another. 

Being a bit younger than you I wasn't yet conditioned in 1964, but I will never forget my parents reaction when the Beatles stepped of the airplane and were shown on the news... 'they look like girls' .  That may have been the start of my question-authority and seek-my-own-truth attitude, because I was too young at the time to share the belief system that was galvanized during the McCarthy era.


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#32 TVCasualty

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 02:40 PM

The funny thing about short hair being considered masculine and long hair feminine is that men generally had long hair until WWI (for example that old hippie who became our first President, George Washington, who never wore a wig).

 

The reason short hair became fashionable when it did was because the returning veterans from the war were seen as heroes and the public imitated them (including their appearance) as the public tends to do, and they'd all returned with very short hair (if any) thanks to having to cut it because of extreme lice problem that life in the trenches caused.


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#33 PJammer24

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 05:13 PM

I am still at work but don't have enough time to read this entire article, though it is not long... Despite my time constraints, after quickly scanning the first couple paragraphs, this seems to relate directly with the conversation being had on this thread. The article is called "Today's Biggest Threat: The Polarized Mind"

 

The gist, as I have gleaned, is that people are more and more likely, these days, to fixate on one point of view being correct and that all other opposing or different points of view would be given no credence...

 

Like I said, I only got two paragraphs in... I am leaving it up on my screen to read tomorrow morning so if a more thorough read indicates that my initial assessment was incorrect, please, let me know... Hopefully I have time to finish reading it tomorrow since I will be in a race to finish my assignments prior to catching a flight for Denver Thursday morning... OYSTERHEAD AND STS9 WOOOO HOOO!!

 

I dont recognize this website as necessary being the best source so if it isn't worth finishing, I would also appreciate that opinion...

 

 

 

As the bitter strife between left and right, citizen and noncitizen, white and non-white attest, the greatest threat to humanity today goes beyond political and religious divides, economics, and psychiatric diagnoses. It goes beyond cultural conflicts and even the degradation of the environment—and yet it includes all of these.

 

As psychologists concerned with the social and psychological bases of human destructiveness, and as dedicated observers of history, we have arrived at the conclusion that so much of what we call human depravity (“evil”) seems to be based on a principle termed “the polarized mind. The polarized mind is the fixation on a single point of view to the utter exclusion of competing points of view, and it has caused more human torment and misery than virtually any other factor.

As citizens of very different and sometimes clashing civilizations, the United States and Iran respectively, we also have a unique vantage point on the polarized mind. While so many theories of human destructiveness are associated with regional customs, mores and histories, we have observed the polarized mind at work in widely divergent cultural, ethnic and economic circumstances.

 

Moreover, we are in complete agreement that the polarized mind is one of the major threats to humanity, not just isolated parts of the world. Our empirically based studies, for example, have indicated that mindlessness—a condition of narrowed perception and reactivity—is a chief and cross-cultural feature of the polarized mind; while (Langerian) mindfulness, an attitude of heightened awareness or presence, is a cardinal feature of the depolarized mind, associated with capacity for discovery, creativity and well-being. It is also associated with a radical transformation of consciousness, but this consciousness cannot flourish until it counterbalances and, to the extent possible, supersedes the polarized mind.

What is the basis for the polarized mind? While there are many contributing factors, from family and cultural conditioning to scarcity of resources to availability of weapons to neuropsychological dispositions, the common denominators among all these factors appears to be fear and anxiety. As an array of studies has shown, people tend to become polarized—fixated and extreme—in the face of helplessness, anxiety and fear.

 

This condition not only tends to make people feel small and insignificant, but ultimately—if the helplessness, anxiety and fear are strong enough—as if their very lives are at stake. The result of this outcome is that people will do all they can to avoid such death anxiety, including becoming violent and oppressive themselves as a defense.

 

The polarized mind has thus become associated with a range of extremist behaviors from despotism to racism to xenophobia to the obsession with power and control. Such cycles are evident in history: whenever people experience individual or collective trauma, such as wars, economic collapse and personal or cultural displacement, and they are unable to acquire the psychosocial support necessary to address these upheavals, the polarized mind is likely to predominate.

Today we are faced with one of the most polarizing world situations in decades as authoritarian rule has undergone a revival, and we are faced once again with the challenge: Are we going to stick our heads in the sand and ignore the hurts and insults that have led to our divisiveness, thus perpetuating a persistent cycle of human devitalization? Or are we going to consider the findings of our hard-won psychological, spiritual and philosophical disciplines and face the wounds that beset us?

From our vantage point as investigators, there is little question that the latter course is preferable and through mindful, widespread dialogue we see an opening. There are already grassroots movements in this latter direction, and we see our personal interchanges as an aspect of those. But on a larger scale, there are growing opportunities for meaningful cross-cultural exchange and for live person-to-person encounters.

 

One such opportunity is a group called Better Angels, to which one of the authors of this article (Kirk Schneider) belongs. Better Angels is now active in dozens of U.S. states and has conducted hundreds of workshops. These workshops consist of structured living-room style dialogues between self-identified liberals and conservatives from a range of backgrounds and appear to be yielding promising results.

 

The key here is the presence or mindfulness to which we alluded earlier. To the extent that interacting parties can approach each other with openness, curiosity and respect, the greater the likelihood that they will acquire the fruit of their contacts—the ability to learn about and potentially find common ground with a formerly polarizing mind.

 

Lest these proposals sound “pie in the sky,” they do not have to be. In fact, we call for a mobilization of such mindfulness practices and dialogue groups on the scale of a public works program for human civility. We see the situation as that urgent, and if military spending and corporate welfare are a current priority for some countries, then assuredly an engagement such as human civility and the discovery of new forms of peaceful coexistence could and should be an equal priority. This is what we are attempting, and we urge the world to join in.


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#34 PJammer24

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 05:15 PM

Ok... I finished reading it... LOL... It is a little vague and provides little in the way of concrete examples but is still pretty interesting and relevant to this conversation



#35 Choices

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 10:13 PM

I will be really surprised if the us does not implode on itself, and burn to ashes in the next 20 years. We cannot keep up the rate of spending, going into debt, coupled with stupidity for very much longer.


Your being generous. I’m not sure your definition of spending, if that means spending of living expenses or spending on shit you don’t need. If it’s the former, it’s all part of the plan. To eliminate the middle class which it turns gives more control to the politicians.

#36 Choices

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Posted 11 February 2020 - 10:19 PM

I will be really surprised if the us does not implode on itself, and burn to ashes in the next 20 years. We cannot keep up the rate of spending, going into debt, coupled with stupidity for very much longer.



If the US falls apart and goes to shit... You may have to move out of the desert if you hope to survive more easily... I am going to turn my place into a compound when society gets a flat tire... I am on the 2nd highest hill in the municipality so we will be able to see the thieving barbarians well before they arrive, It is a temperate climate with an adequate growing season, I have a gas well that will continue to feed my home even after electricity fails, well water... We could holdout up on my hill for a good while!! My parents house is down the street with a gas kiln where we could fire our pots and jugs, a spring, pond... I think my friends and I could make a go of it!!

People said in was crazy moving to the mountains. Well shall see.

#37 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 09:41 AM

I am still at work but don't have enough time to read this entire article, though it is not long... Despite my time constraints, after quickly scanning the first couple paragraphs, this seems to relate directly with the conversation being had on this thread. The article is called "Today's Biggest Threat: The Polarized Mind"

 

The gist, as I have gleaned, is that people are more and more likely, these days, to fixate on one point of view being correct and that all other opposing or different points of view would be given no credence...

 

Like I said, I only got two paragraphs in... I am leaving it up on my screen to read tomorrow morning so if a more thorough read indicates that my initial assessment was incorrect, please, let me know... Hopefully I have time to finish reading it tomorrow since I will be in a race to finish my assignments prior to catching a flight for Denver Thursday morning... OYSTERHEAD AND STS9 WOOOO HOOO!!

 

I dont recognize this website as necessary being the best source so if it isn't worth finishing, I would also appreciate that opinion...

 

 

 

As the bitter strife between left and right, citizen and noncitizen, white and non-white attest, the greatest threat to humanity today goes beyond political and religious divides, economics, and psychiatric diagnoses. It goes beyond cultural conflicts and even the degradation of the environment—and yet it includes all of these.

 

As psychologists concerned with the social and psychological bases of human destructiveness, and as dedicated observers of history, we have arrived at the conclusion that so much of what we call human depravity (“evil”) seems to be based on a principle termed “the polarized mind. The polarized mind is the fixation on a single point of view to the utter exclusion of competing points of view, and it has caused more human torment and misery than virtually any other factor.

As citizens of very different and sometimes clashing civilizations, the United States and Iran respectively, we also have a unique vantage point on the polarized mind. While so many theories of human destructiveness are associated with regional customs, mores and histories, we have observed the polarized mind at work in widely divergent cultural, ethnic and economic circumstances.

 

Moreover, we are in complete agreement that the polarized mind is one of the major threats to humanity, not just isolated parts of the world. Our empirically based studies, for example, have indicated that mindlessness—a condition of narrowed perception and reactivity—is a chief and cross-cultural feature of the polarized mind; while (Langerian) mindfulness, an attitude of heightened awareness or presence, is a cardinal feature of the depolarized mind, associated with capacity for discovery, creativity and well-being. It is also associated with a radical transformation of consciousness, but this consciousness cannot flourish until it counterbalances and, to the extent possible, supersedes the polarized mind.

What is the basis for the polarized mind? While there are many contributing factors, from family and cultural conditioning to scarcity of resources to availability of weapons to neuropsychological dispositions, the common denominators among all these factors appears to be fear and anxiety. As an array of studies has shown, people tend to become polarized—fixated and extreme—in the face of helplessness, anxiety and fear.

 

This condition not only tends to make people feel small and insignificant, but ultimately—if the helplessness, anxiety and fear are strong enough—as if their very lives are at stake. The result of this outcome is that people will do all they can to avoid such death anxiety, including becoming violent and oppressive themselves as a defense.

 

The polarized mind has thus become associated with a range of extremist behaviors from despotism to racism to xenophobia to the obsession with power and control. Such cycles are evident in history: whenever people experience individual or collective trauma, such as wars, economic collapse and personal or cultural displacement, and they are unable to acquire the psychosocial support necessary to address these upheavals, the polarized mind is likely to predominate.

Today we are faced with one of the most polarizing world situations in decades as authoritarian rule has undergone a revival, and we are faced once again with the challenge: Are we going to stick our heads in the sand and ignore the hurts and insults that have led to our divisiveness, thus perpetuating a persistent cycle of human devitalization? Or are we going to consider the findings of our hard-won psychological, spiritual and philosophical disciplines and face the wounds that beset us?

From our vantage point as investigators, there is little question that the latter course is preferable and through mindful, widespread dialogue we see an opening. There are already grassroots movements in this latter direction, and we see our personal interchanges as an aspect of those. But on a larger scale, there are growing opportunities for meaningful cross-cultural exchange and for live person-to-person encounters.

 

One such opportunity is a group called Better Angels, to which one of the authors of this article (Kirk Schneider) belongs. Better Angels is now active in dozens of U.S. states and has conducted hundreds of workshops. These workshops consist of structured living-room style dialogues between self-identified liberals and conservatives from a range of backgrounds and appear to be yielding promising results.

 

The key here is the presence or mindfulness to which we alluded earlier. To the extent that interacting parties can approach each other with openness, curiosity and respect, the greater the likelihood that they will acquire the fruit of their contacts—the ability to learn about and potentially find common ground with a formerly polarizing mind.

 

Lest these proposals sound “pie in the sky,” they do not have to be. In fact, we call for a mobilization of such mindfulness practices and dialogue groups on the scale of a public works program for human civility. We see the situation as that urgent, and if military spending and corporate welfare are a current priority for some countries, then assuredly an engagement such as human civility and the discovery of new forms of peaceful coexistence could and should be an equal priority. This is what we are attempting, and we urge the world to join in.

 

Well I can think of one thing we should  stop doing that would be a good start in the peace. Stop filing each other into groups that automatically create a divide. Everyone is so worried about these little identities, like black, white, gay, straight, man, woman, whatever, when we are all just people. This article describes how when we label things we actually change how our mind perceives them. Much like if I show you a glass of orange coloured drink, your mind is conditioned to assume that it is orange juice. So much so that in studies they have shown people are fooled as to what flavor they are actually drinking.  

 

It's an evolutionary trait that helps us make sense of this crazy world, a sort of a cheat sheet for the brain. Combined with our daily interactions it can have some strange social effects



#38 PJammer24

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 11:53 AM

 

I will be really surprised if the us does not implode on itself, and burn to ashes in the next 20 years. We cannot keep up the rate of spending, going into debt, coupled with stupidity for very much longer.


Your being generous. I’m not sure your definition of spending, if that means spending of living expenses or spending on shit you don’t need. If it’s the former, it’s all part of the plan. To eliminate the middle class which it turns gives more control to the politicians.

 

I can't speak for her but I thought she was referring to government spending, not daily expenditures for the average citizen.


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#39 PJammer24

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 11:59 AM

 

I am still at work but don't have enough time to read this entire article, though it is not long... Despite my time constraints, after quickly scanning the first couple paragraphs, this seems to relate directly with the conversation being had on this thread. The article is called "Today's Biggest Threat: The Polarized Mind"

 

The gist, as I have gleaned, is that people are more and more likely, these days, to fixate on one point of view being correct and that all other opposing or different points of view would be given no credence...

 

Like I said, I only got two paragraphs in... I am leaving it up on my screen to read tomorrow morning so if a more thorough read indicates that my initial assessment was incorrect, please, let me know... Hopefully I have time to finish reading it tomorrow since I will be in a race to finish my assignments prior to catching a flight for Denver Thursday morning... OYSTERHEAD AND STS9 WOOOO HOOO!!

 

I dont recognize this website as necessary being the best source so if it isn't worth finishing, I would also appreciate that opinion...

 

 

 

As the bitter strife between left and right, citizen and noncitizen, white and non-white attest, the greatest threat to humanity today goes beyond political and religious divides, economics, and psychiatric diagnoses. It goes beyond cultural conflicts and even the degradation of the environment—and yet it includes all of these.

 

As psychologists concerned with the social and psychological bases of human destructiveness, and as dedicated observers of history, we have arrived at the conclusion that so much of what we call human depravity (“evil”) seems to be based on a principle termed “the polarized mind. The polarized mind is the fixation on a single point of view to the utter exclusion of competing points of view, and it has caused more human torment and misery than virtually any other factor.

As citizens of very different and sometimes clashing civilizations, the United States and Iran respectively, we also have a unique vantage point on the polarized mind. While so many theories of human destructiveness are associated with regional customs, mores and histories, we have observed the polarized mind at work in widely divergent cultural, ethnic and economic circumstances.

 

Moreover, we are in complete agreement that the polarized mind is one of the major threats to humanity, not just isolated parts of the world. Our empirically based studies, for example, have indicated that mindlessness—a condition of narrowed perception and reactivity—is a chief and cross-cultural feature of the polarized mind; while (Langerian) mindfulness, an attitude of heightened awareness or presence, is a cardinal feature of the depolarized mind, associated with capacity for discovery, creativity and well-being. It is also associated with a radical transformation of consciousness, but this consciousness cannot flourish until it counterbalances and, to the extent possible, supersedes the polarized mind.

What is the basis for the polarized mind? While there are many contributing factors, from family and cultural conditioning to scarcity of resources to availability of weapons to neuropsychological dispositions, the common denominators among all these factors appears to be fear and anxiety. As an array of studies has shown, people tend to become polarized—fixated and extreme—in the face of helplessness, anxiety and fear.

 

This condition not only tends to make people feel small and insignificant, but ultimately—if the helplessness, anxiety and fear are strong enough—as if their very lives are at stake. The result of this outcome is that people will do all they can to avoid such death anxiety, including becoming violent and oppressive themselves as a defense.

 

The polarized mind has thus become associated with a range of extremist behaviors from despotism to racism to xenophobia to the obsession with power and control. Such cycles are evident in history: whenever people experience individual or collective trauma, such as wars, economic collapse and personal or cultural displacement, and they are unable to acquire the psychosocial support necessary to address these upheavals, the polarized mind is likely to predominate.

Today we are faced with one of the most polarizing world situations in decades as authoritarian rule has undergone a revival, and we are faced once again with the challenge: Are we going to stick our heads in the sand and ignore the hurts and insults that have led to our divisiveness, thus perpetuating a persistent cycle of human devitalization? Or are we going to consider the findings of our hard-won psychological, spiritual and philosophical disciplines and face the wounds that beset us?

From our vantage point as investigators, there is little question that the latter course is preferable and through mindful, widespread dialogue we see an opening. There are already grassroots movements in this latter direction, and we see our personal interchanges as an aspect of those. But on a larger scale, there are growing opportunities for meaningful cross-cultural exchange and for live person-to-person encounters.

 

One such opportunity is a group called Better Angels, to which one of the authors of this article (Kirk Schneider) belongs. Better Angels is now active in dozens of U.S. states and has conducted hundreds of workshops. These workshops consist of structured living-room style dialogues between self-identified liberals and conservatives from a range of backgrounds and appear to be yielding promising results.

 

The key here is the presence or mindfulness to which we alluded earlier. To the extent that interacting parties can approach each other with openness, curiosity and respect, the greater the likelihood that they will acquire the fruit of their contacts—the ability to learn about and potentially find common ground with a formerly polarizing mind.

 

Lest these proposals sound “pie in the sky,” they do not have to be. In fact, we call for a mobilization of such mindfulness practices and dialogue groups on the scale of a public works program for human civility. We see the situation as that urgent, and if military spending and corporate welfare are a current priority for some countries, then assuredly an engagement such as human civility and the discovery of new forms of peaceful coexistence could and should be an equal priority. This is what we are attempting, and we urge the world to join in.

 

Well I can think of one thing we should  stop doing that would be a good start in the peace. Stop filing each other into groups that automatically create a divide. Everyone is so worried about these little identities, like black, white, gay, straight, man, woman, whatever, when we are all just people. This article describes how when we label things we actually change how our mind perceives them. Much like if I show you a glass of orange coloured drink, your mind is conditioned to assume that it is orange juice. So much so that in studies they have shown people are fooled as to what flavor they are actually drinking.  

 

It's an evolutionary trait that helps us make sense of this crazy world, a sort of a cheat sheet for the brain. Combined with our daily interactions it can have some strange social effects

 

It is certainly evolution, but I don't think you quite got to the root of it with your last comment. I believe we developed these tribal social behaviors as a means of survival in an ancient world where surviving on your own was virtually impossible... It's a double edged sword... While on one side ancient humans would join with people they viewed to be similar and of like mind to ward off potential attacks, many groups also viewed others as a means to further their position and potential survival through violence... I think that over millions of years, these behaviors developed because to have them meant you were more likely to prosper a long with those around you....


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#40 FLASHINGROOSTER

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Posted 12 February 2020 - 01:22 PM

It is a good point, we do naturally separate anyway. I suppose I mean more the bias that can come when we talk about groups of people instead of the individuals in them






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