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Teks for Penis Envy


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#21 LBowDeep

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 11:55 AM

 

Is there a recommended next step after doing BRF tek?  Monotub?  If so, what tek should I try?

 

 

I continue to research this topic and here is one of the popular teks for monotub that was compiled by wharfrat a few years ago.

 

https://mycotopia.ne...t-a-4-part-tek/

 

Beware that some have found that the coffee in this tek can promote contaminates and from what I have read you can just leave it out.

 

More to follow as I find them.

 

Good luck

 

 

 

The next step after PF cakes would likely be dubtubs or similar.

Monotubs are big. They yield a lot but one failure wipes out lots of spawn and substrate. Not only that but you're left with a large pile of just one variety, that's fine if your selling, host mushroom orgies, or just dont mind monotony. With dubtubs you can cheaply grow medium size crops of a range of mushroom varieties. Dubtubs also use the same size pressure cooker most people buy for doing PF cakes [large enough to hold 4 pint jars or 6 cake jars], people can spawn monos with pint jars, but most seem to prefer quarts.

 

As someone who never sells, likes variety, and sadly doesnt host mushroom orgies I doubt I'll ever do a mono.

 

 

Maybe this will help if you're a visual person (minus the heat pad, 9:38 for results).  PE prefers mono/dubtubs, expect slower colonization and fruiting times.  Also expect approximately 2x the potency compared to other cubes like GT and B+.  Good luck!

https://www.youtube....h?v=POuozQp5ohk

 

Thank you all for your help.  I'm somewhat limited on acquiring new resources at the moment but I want to follow in the spirit of what has been suggested--so I ended up experimenting yesterday when I went to dunk my PE on BRF cakes for a second flush.  

 

My first flush yielded just under 2 ounces of cracker dry fruit, the most potent I've ever had.  So I'm not experimenting out of desperation, but because I can see the PE-on-BRF moisture retention issues with my own eyes even as I harvest a more-than-expected amount.  

 

I had twelve healthy cakes.  I dunked them for 22 hours.  Placed eight back into the fruiting chamber to follow the same protocol as before.  I broke up the remaining four as gently as possible for use in a mini mono tub.  I made pasteurized substrate from verm, sphagnum moss, and gypsum, layered the substrate, then crumbled PE cakes, then substrate, then cakes, then substrate.  Set it up to colonize.  I decided against adding a casing layer.  If I have issues with the mini mono tub, I'll try a casing layer (and maybe replace peat moss with coir) using four more cakes when I dunk for the third flush.  

 

I understand that PE and APE do well on grain, which is what I'll be using the next time I grow either.  Is grain optimal for others too, such as Golden Teacher or B+?  I like to keep things as simple as I can, so using grains for a lot of my psilocybe grows is appealing.

 

Pictures of the mini mono tub experiment will be forthcoming in about a week.



#22 PJammer24

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 12:49 PM

 

P.E.'s continue to grow after the veil breaks, so harvest them when the caps are turned up and kind of beaten up looking. 

 

But there has to be a point of diminishing returns, at least from a potency standpoint, right?  At what point does one harvest P.E.'s to achieve both optimal size and potency?

 

When they're done growing. I subscribe to the belief that the PE strains are stronger because of their slower growing rate. 

 

I basically threw that in their because I saw people harvesting way too early.

 

Here's some more about potency:

 

https://mycotopia.ne...-3#entry1410459

 

 

 

I can not provide evidence for this and someone may have enough experience that they can say with surety that I am mistaken... BUT... I suspect that they are stronger by volume and not be weight. Due to their being a denser than typical fruit, a comparable 1" segment of stem will out perform a different strain... It appears that they are more potent but there is simply more mushroom in the mushroom... This, I think, can be attributed to the slower than typical growth...


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#23 ElrikEriksson

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 01:18 PM

Grain is good for all actives I've heard of, its just modifications on them that make the difference for different species and teks.

PF tek is powdered grain with built in vermiculite, stone producers are grains hydrated with coffee, some manure lovers get manure added to the grain in certain teks and some woodlovers get some wood added. Even those big outdoor woodlover beds made mostly from woodchips and cardboard are started with grain. So its all just variations.

 

I can understand being limited on acquiring resources. The best tactic is to always be attentive to potential resources and to be inventive.

Some examples: my current still air box is a fish tank I got at a yard sale, turned on its side and with a large ziplock bag with the sides split and two hand holes cut in for the front wall [I put little flaps of plastic over the hand holes to keep it closed when not working] total cost about enough to pay for lunch, lately at market I've been buying a particular brand of jam that costs a little bit more but in a few months six of the jars will be the perfect size for growing the spawn in a tampenensis breeding project I just started. I watch what is in peoples trash and rescue food containers that can be used as dubtubs or similar, this has saved me from buying a small stack of shoeboxes. I'm making my own composts for bulk substrate. I'm composting used substrate with vermiculite in its own container so I'll have an especially verm rich compost to use when subs need some verm. I used my grandfathers rock tumbler and some river rocks as a ball mill to powder limestone prills so I wouldn't have to pay several times as much for powdered limestone. I pay a little more for nitrile gloves because I can wash and reuse them like four times as many times as latex.

Pay attention and be creative and your life will be easier in this hobby, and in general :wink:


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#24 Jinroh

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 01:47 PM

 

I have just started Agar work and have some successful cultures going of other strains on Petri dishes, but have not started PE as of yet. I also have everything I need to begin grain spawn, but I am not sure what grain and substrate to try. I am leaning toward rye berry and then coir&verm. Thanks for the advise, I will inoculate in agar and then transfer to grain. This will be my first grain spawn.

If others with experience are reading this thread please let me know what you think works best.


Like FunG mentioned a common occurrence is longer colonization, and fruit times. As well, as a general agreement that PE and APE need casing layers.

A good friend of mine exclusively grows APE and he follows wharfrat’s dubtub pictorial https://mycotopia.ne...t-a-4-part-tek/

It’s growing using four Dubtubs which means you can test your agar isolates side by side. Since you are getting started with agar inoculate a couple plates with a syringe/print, and isolate it out. Then you can transfer an agar wedge to your grain of choice.

 

I am colonizing a large tub of APE version 1 as I type this. I am using Wharfrats recipe for the substrate and casing. The spawn has been in the tub only 4 days but I can see colonization activity already. I have been told APE colonizes slow and pins real slow. I did not really have that experience but this is my first APE grow. Colonization seemed about normal speed to me. But I am expecting a longer than the usual time until harvest.
Before I colonized my grain jars I used half a syringe of spores to make a half a qt of culture. Then tested the culture on agar on three different plates to get an average. All three plates performed very well so I used the culture I made to inoculate my jars. The 6 jars colonized very solid and very white and (unusual for me) not a single jar contaminated. So far I am very happy with the results plus I have an endless supply of APE culture now.


Edited by Jinroh, 24 October 2019 - 02:15 PM.

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#25 Jinroh

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Posted 24 October 2019 - 02:04 PM

I too have read that coffee grounds can promote contamination. Used coffee grounds are very high in nitrogen, so the more you add the richer the substrate. Used grounds can increase yields significantly, however, research has told me that the goal is to provide the extra nutrient without getting the substrate so rich as to allow other contaminants to grow faster than the mycelium. Logically the risk is higher using grounds with APE due to the longer growth time since the grounds could foster contamination growth. I decided to go ahead and use a 1/2 cup of grounds to 6 quarts of the substrate since I felt there could be gains with yields but not overly rich to attract contaminates. You can actually grow in 100% used coffee grounds if you wanted to. I bet the yields would be huge, but the chances of getting a crop before contamination took over are super low in my opinion.

You can use any grains for spawn for just about every type of mushroom except maybe some exotics that I have never seen before. Use whatever is available in your area. I have seen good success using plain cheap popcorn kernels. Birdseed is also used. I tried birdseed and had all sorts of problems with contamination and uneven spawning and it is a pain to clean and some birdseed has anti-fungal additives which would most likely kill your spawn off quick, so I don't recommend Birdseed for a beginner like myself.

 

I plan on starting a new thread to track my APE tubs progress once it is fully colonized, and if it contams, I plan to post that as well.


Edited by Jinroh, 24 October 2019 - 02:41 PM.

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#26 Jinroh

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 09:18 AM

As I stated above in a previous post, I plan to start a topic once my APE is pinning, but I thought I would post images of my APE progress so far since the topic is PE.

All of the images are of APE culture (supposedly) taken from an early generation of APE#1. Now I have no way to verify that but that is what I was told when I got the culture. I then immediately made a half quart of liquid culture and tested on three plates.

 

So the first image here is of my first-generation APE in a 64qt tub made with a 1:1 ratio of 6qt sub to 6qt spawn using Wharfrats sub recipe... and yes I know the risk of contamination using just one large tub instead of many smaller ones. All I have are large tubs right now. I have penty of ingedients on hand so if I lose the tub I will chalk it up to a lesson learned. (this tub is 5 days growth)

 

First Generation APE.jpg

 

This image is of my second-generation APE cooking off from samples taken from the first-gen spawn.

Next generation APE.jpg

 

This image is of two of my plate tests (notice the trich creeping in from the side of the plate)? That tells me my culture is good because I dropped it into the center of the agar. The Trich made its way in from outside the plate. At this point, I would normally move a clean sample from that plate to a new one but I have so much APE now, just for fun I want to see what happens once the plate is covered.

 

APE Culture Test.jpg

 

In this image, you can see the APE mycelium and the trich duking it out. I think the amber drops of liquid on the edge of the myc are digestive enzymes (could be wrong) just guessing. Does anyone know what the amber drops of liquid are? Notice the border between the two fungi, there is an invisible battle going on and the APE looks to be kicking ass. Sorry for the blurry image, I do not have a macro on my phone. I am going to try and get a better shot of this battle in a few days.

EDIT: I went ahead and got my microscope out and took a picture of the screen. You can clearly see the APE mycelium attacking and running along the edge of the Trich. Maybe I am just a geek but that is so F'ing cool!

 

APE Trich Battle.JPG

 

micro battle.jpg


Edited by Jinroh, 25 October 2019 - 03:54 PM.

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#27 Jinroh

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 06:00 PM


I can not provide evidence for this and someone may have enough experience that they can say with surety that I am mistaken... BUT... I suspect that they are stronger by volume and not be weight. Due to their being a denser than typical fruit, a comparable 1" segment of stem will out perform a different strain... It appears that they are more potent but there is simply more mushroom in the mushroom... This, I think, can be attributed to the slower than typical growth...

 

 

This is just my opinion but either volume or weight... as long as they work I am OK with volume or weight.  LOL


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#28 MsBehavin420

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 06:10 PM

From what ive read heaters are not such a great idea. Get a ceramic room heater to raise the room temp.
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#29 Jinroh

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Posted 01 November 2019 - 06:16 PM

From what ive read heaters are not such a great idea. Get a ceramic room heater to raise the room temp.

I have read the same thing that they can dry out the cake. I have also read about them being used with no issues. The cake is almost ready to go to fruting in which I will not heating anyway. Also I only have it set to 75, I can barely feel it when I touch the tub.


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#30 MsBehavin420

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Posted 02 November 2019 - 11:16 AM

Ive heard of ppl using submerged heaters in tubs filled with water to not over heat the sub.

i had my jars on the cable box and that was too hot and killed it.

Good luck
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#31 Jinroh

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Posted 02 November 2019 - 11:34 AM

That is a good idea. Sort of like a double boiler system. I am actually using an under water heater with my hydroponic shroom tank. It seems to perform very well.


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#32 LBowDeep

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Posted 02 November 2019 - 01:25 PM

Ive heard of ppl using submerged heaters in tubs filled with water to not over heat the sub.

i had my jars on the cable box and that was too hot and killed it.

Good luck

 

 

That is a good idea. Sort of like a double boiler system. I am actually using an under water heater with my hydroponic shroom tank. It seems to perform very well.

 

The mini mono tub of PE is fine as far as mycelial health--it's still taking over the substrate pretty fast from yesterday to today and I see no signs of contaminants.  Knock on wood.  I decided to leave the heaters alone.  Average temperature isn't optimal but it will work.  I'm having success, so the risk of wiping out an entire batch by unnecessarily attempting to warm it is one I'm not willing to take at this stage.

 

Thank you for the input.  


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#33 Yoyos

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Posted 19 October 2020 - 09:48 PM

Super late to this thread but hey, might be helpful for someone.

Started my very first grow in August this year, got 1 each GT and PE syringes from a trusted vendor. Did G.T.'s on BRF for PFTek. Did PE's in 3lb grain bags then spawned to hpoo monotubs. The G.T's were done fruiting by the time the PE monotubs were fully colonized. Then they sat and they sat and did very little for like 2 weeks. One tub developed a small contam spot right in the middle - so freaking disappointing because of the size of the damn monotub cake - prob happened because I loved on it too much! Couldn't bring myself to throw it away so stuck a sterilized jar over the contam spot to isolate and will see how that goes. About a week later, The other tub started to pin but was still very slow so I decided to add a thin casing layer and turn down the temp in my grow room to around 65 F.  This late casing method (that I read about somewhere on here) worked a charm!  In 1.5 days I had little PE babies popping up everywhere. Now the mycelium is growing through the casing and knots happening in all the places where no shrooms showing yet, so pretty happy all in all.  If I ever do this again, will not do monotubs but maybe dubtubs if those are smaller? Monotub method is super easy but they're just too big and cumbersome and too much to risk losing if you aren't 100% certain you're being sterile all the time, which I thought I was but obvs not!

I really want to get a spore print from my PE's, will follow others advice and try to get from a very mature mushroom. I'm in no hurry to harvest and not much else to do but excitedly watch my projects do their thing. I love shrooms as much as the next guy but honestly, the real fun of this hobby is the growing.

 

Cheers,

Yoyos



#34 fahtster

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Posted 21 October 2020 - 03:00 AM

Man.. a lot of ppl hating on PE. It’s one of the best cube varieties out there.. you just have to grow them right. They require a thick ~1”+ peat/verm (jiffy mix Or a 50/50+) casing (the peat is the important part) and at least a 1:2 or 1:3 ratio to put out a normal, non-blob canopy... sure they take a little longer but they’re potent as hell, dense and prolific. Here’s SW PE with that dense jiffy mix casing:

30FD1340-4F2D-416F-BB34-435A14A5DDBE.jpeg AED03924-8786-4CA0-8471-C1D1CB95B88C.jpeg F61F4E22-33D7-4C28-8825-9CC37D5A8C3E.jpeg 45E88B49-E9B2-431D-B423-97E3DAB1F55E.jpeg 30703AEA-973A-48F7-80A6-FDA8B76AB3C0.jpeg 81A195D6-1995-4210-9589-52A5866FAB78.jpeg CA69E0CC-48F7-4A14-9385-4C86A8DB75D1.jpeg 0CC2AB28-B433-41A5-B92B-776093B8C108.jpeg 01E57E83-2406-4F8D-B8B1-D22AED8C2F68.jpeg 8FC40190-89FF-4D0C-9667-FEAC9A951657.jpeg
1DC2BF8F-6319-4101-B689-F44DA240DD0F.jpeg

Follow these instructions and you can’t go wrong:

Once the tub is made, wait until the sub is 100% colonized (didn’t take more than 5 days and no need to consolidate) and case with 50/50 (I use pasteurized jiffy mix) at a 1/2”

Make sure you lightly mist the peat casing once every couple days as peat dried out pretty fast... even every day if it is called for but you don’t want it muddy... just moist.

Once the casing is colonized, recase again with 1/4-1/2” Jiffy mix

Patch thinly as needed from that point on keeping up with the mistings.

Knotting should start happening after 10-14 days and your casing will probably end up being close to an inch thick. Once pins show up, stop misting. About half way into fruiting your casing will start turning blue, that’s how you know when to pull the sides of the liner away from the sub and add enough water (bottom watering) so that most, if not all, your pins mature and don’t abort.. probably about a 1/4 cup on the long sides.. this helps a lot.

Those are all clones which helps with consistency.

PE also does well on cakes:

5F35558E-877E-4AF0-B949-7D5B0F384494.jpeg 8490D1B0-53EC-4533-8BA4-6C93AA84D7DD.jpeg BC415BEC-F335-4173-A10D-342457979256.jpeg 46FEFDA5-F5C8-4AE3-9A03-1FAF571828A8.jpeg

The biggest problem ppl have with PE on cakes is that they don’t account for water loss due to the extra long time it takes for PE cakes to pin.. a simple dunk at birth isn’t enough to sustain a cake’s water to have a banging flush.. if you want PE to perform well on cakes you should use a thick DEC (I prefer verm because the myc won’t over colonize it like it would coir; expending needed nutes for high fruit production). I use about a 1” pile of wet verm that I water to the point of saturation a week after birth.. the cakes will slowly absorb the water from the thick casing over time and replenish it so it’s dense fruits can pull from it.

^^^that casing strategy also works on small scale too.. here’s about half a handful (the grains I used for jelly jar GLC) mixed with C/V in tall 1/2 pints with a thick jiffy casing

CFA43941-0B39-4028-9C54-F059C5B7AAEC.jpeg 63301574-BF28-4586-994C-F344EA48D7E6.jpeg B3E9BCA7-A531-4018-9DAA-D75107197ECD.jpeg
here’s a 2nd flush of that last jar
A8837B29-5761-4CB4-AF68-FBDD28A425E6.jpeg
lol wOOoop

For whatever reason PE likes to blob if it’s near a high nute source, hence the, at least 1:2 ratio and thick jiffy casing.. anymore spawn and it can get blobby. It’s the same reason that those cakes above grew normally for the most part and didn’t blob... of cakes have a pretty small amount of nutes compared to grain.

Faht

Edited by fahtster, 21 October 2020 - 03:40 AM.

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#35 ilikethings

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Posted 24 October 2020 - 04:56 PM

You, @LbowDeep, sound like the exception.  I only tried cultivating PE's once, and I concur with much of the other posters...in the sense that, although mine actually colonized as per any other "strain" of cubie, they did  NOT fruit.  PE's may, allegedly, contain the highest psilo content by weight of any cubie "strain" but for the hassle of getting them to fruit, I'll stick to my tried and true Mazatapecs!  I do think PE's may be more reliable if you have progessed to working with agar isolations.  just my 2 cents.






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