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Needle and Tool Heat Sterilizing Experiment


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#21 Myc

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 01:35 PM

LOL! Never mind! While searching for parts I discovered we can buy a premade unit using the same identical coil online! You can get it on Amazon for 15 bucks! Duhhhhh. Me stupid. LOL

All that is required is an adjustable 5v to 12v DC power supply which I am sure could be purchased already assembled. Sometimes I overthink things. LOL

 

Link please? :D

 

Nevermind, I think I found it:

https://www.amazon.c...70301290&sr=8-5

 

Rig a foot-switch into the control circuit (along with the recommended ammeter) and you've got yourself a pretty cool tool which should last a long time.


Edited by Myc, 05 October 2019 - 01:50 PM.

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#22 Jinroh

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 01:58 PM

 

LOL! Never mind! While searching for parts I discovered we can buy a premade unit using the same identical coil online! You can get it on Amazon for 15 bucks! Duhhhhh. Me stupid. LOL

All that is required is an adjustable 5v to 12v DC power supply which I am sure could be purchased already assembled. Sometimes I overthink things. LOL

 

Link please? :D

 

Nevermind, I think I found it:

https://www.amazon.c...70301290&sr=8-5

 

Rig a foot-switch into the control circuit (along with the recommended ammeter) and you've got yourself a pretty cool tool which should last a long time.

 

There ya go! Thats it. Foot switch is a great idea. That would reduce idle time and lower PCB temp instead of being on all the time during your session.


Edited by Jinroh, 05 October 2019 - 02:10 PM.

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#23 bezevo

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 02:04 PM

how about this one

 

https://www.amazon.c...0NsaWNrPXRydWU=


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#24 Jinroh

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 02:16 PM

I think that one would be even better because of its lower output which means less PCB heat. The one Myc found is a seriously powerful induction driver and needs a minimum of 12v which might fry a needle or hoop. For gods sake, you can melt metal in a crucible with that one!


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#25 Myc

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 02:26 PM

Yes! That unit I linked is used for annealing metals.

A lower-power unit would be perfectly suitable to our needs. And further yes - the foot switch would increase the overall life of the circuit. I'm picturing something like a guitar effect pedal (stomp box) type setup. Step for on and then step for off so you can control the duty cycle manually as needed.


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#26 Jinroh

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 02:29 PM

Yes! That unit I linked is used for annealing metals.

A lower-power unit would be perfectly suitable to our needs. And further yes - the foot switch would increase the overall life of the circuit. I'm picturing something like a guitar effect pedal (stomp box) type setup. Step for on and then step for off so you can control the duty cycle manually as needed.

I think we have a plan! I could go ahead and complete what I have built... but for the 13 bucks it is worth saving a few hours of work! I am ordering one!



#27 Jinroh

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 02:40 PM

OKAY! After a little hunting, I found the perfect power supply. Picture this... you stomp the foot pedal and do a test heating to dial in the correct voltage for what you are heating using the PWM unit I linked below. Then every time you hit the pedal you get the exact voltage required every time. The only adjustments required after that is if you changed the thickness of metal to be heated like a scalpel or something!

 

https://www.amazon.c...45OP416LP&psc=1


Edited by Jinroh, 05 October 2019 - 02:41 PM.


#28 Jinroh

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Posted 05 October 2019 - 06:05 PM

Yes! That unit I linked is used for annealing metals.

A lower-power unit would be perfectly suitable to our needs. And further yes - the foot switch would increase the overall life of the circuit. I'm picturing something like a guitar effect pedal (stomp box) type setup. Step for on and then step for off so you can control the duty cycle manually as needed.

Here is a perfect foot pedal if you do not already have one.

 

https://www.amazon.c...0316590&sr=8-38



#29 Jinroh

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 07:58 PM

Ok folks! I received that module and bench tested it. So far we have a problem. After trying three different brand needles I discovered they would not heat at all. Then I tested them on a magnet and they do not attract at all. I suspect these needles are made of some type of special alloy or aluminum. This will be a major block to the project unless we can find magnetic needles. Do me a favor and test some of your needles and see if they are attracted to a magnet. I tested a paper clip and it got cherry red real fast so I know the unit is working.


Edited by Jinroh, 08 October 2019 - 07:59 PM.


#30 Juthro

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 09:15 PM

I dont have any answers for you, but I do know they have commercial needle destroyers that work by induction.

 

https://www.indiamar...6171741362.html



#31 Jinroh

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 10:17 PM

I dont have any answers for you, but I do know they have commercial needle destroyers that work by induction.

 

https://www.indiamar...6171741362.html

I read the specs on that device. It looks like it uses induction but on contact with the needle. Unless I misunderstood what was written, the used needle is cut and at the same time it contacts two electrodes and that contact with a current is what does the heating. We do not want our needles to touch anything, just the magnetic field that the needle enters. Plus it needs to be finely tunable to allow for different types and thickness of metals.

 

But that is a pretty cool device. I bet it saves many lives.



#32 Juthro

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 10:36 PM

Forgive my limited understanding, but if it has to touch electrodes wouldn't that be conduction (or actually, the resistance to conduction), and not induction that was causing the heat?

 

I'm not arguing one way or the other, I'm just trying to get it straight in my head, for my own sanity :)



#33 Jinroh

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Posted 08 October 2019 - 11:50 PM

Forgive my limited understanding, but if it has to touch electrodes wouldn't that be conduction (or actually, the resistance to conduction), and not induction that was causing the heat?

 

I'm not arguing one way or the other, I'm just trying to get it straight in my head, for my own sanity :)

No, you have it right. I think those specifications were translated by someone who knows nothing about the subject unless I am missing something. What the specs describe is resistance heating and not magnetic induction.



#34 Juthro

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 01:04 AM

I agree, the wording makes me think there were possible translation problems.

 

But I then found this...

 

Here is US patent US5075529A ' Electromagnetic syringe needle disposer'.  It has a couple of diagrams in the patent application that may be of use to you.

https://patents.goog...t/US5075529A/en



#35 Jinroh

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Posted 09 October 2019 - 01:29 AM

I agree, the wording makes me think there were possible translation problems.

 

But I then found this...

 

Here is US patent US5075529A ' Electromagnetic syringe needle disposer'.  It has a couple of diagrams in the patent application that may be of use to you.

https://patents.goog...t/US5075529A/en

 

See... those drawings show a typical magnetic induction system yet the specifications state the needle comes into contact with two electrodes. I see no electrodes anywhere in those drawings.

Very confusing. And that system would only work with metals that are at least semi-ferrous. So far every needle I have tested does not seem to be even slightly magnetic.

Anyway, if you follow this thread back a bit you will see we located cheap pre-made modules on Amazon that make it silly to continue with a prototype. This idea is a dead end anyway if the majority of the needles out there are not subject to magnetism. I must have purchased syringes made for animals which I know are often made from aluminum. The key to this now is getting the correct alloy needle to make this method sterilization possible. Clearly, the needle destroyer is designed around needles made from stainless or something similar.

 

It would be nice to get some data about the needles some of the members are currently using. If they are subject to magnetism or not.



#36 Jinroh

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 08:36 PM

Hello all,

I just wanted to let you know that I did some more research about needles. If you buy the regular syringes on Amazon or whatever... all the needles are made of aluminum. They do not say they are but they are. After checking Amazon and eBay and a few other sites, the cheapest stainless needles (will work with induction heating) are at the link below. I have ordered a set so I can continue my experiments. It is difficult to find a set that comes with a syringe because these needles are meant for industrial applications and not human medical applications. The manufacturer has informed me that any syringe with a luhr lock will work with these needles. Or you can buy a stainless syringe and sterilize it. I am leary of a reusable syringe. I already have issues with contam as it is. Anyone out there use a reusable syringe? I do not plan to.

 

https://www.amazon.c...ding=UTF8&psc=1



#37 Juthro

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 10:14 PM

I've never seen an aluminum hypodermic needle, ever.  I've seen them with aluminum hubs, but the needles have always been made of stainless steel.  Do you have some info that shows some needles are made out of aluminum? 

 

Most surgical stainless steel is only slightly magnetic, and I'm assuming that is where your problem comes from.



#38 Jinroh

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Posted 30 October 2019 - 10:34 PM

I've never seen an aluminum hypodermic needle, ever.  I've seen them with aluminum hubs, but the needles have always been made of stainless steel.  Do you have some info that shows some needles are made out of aluminum? 

 

Most surgical stainless steel is only slightly magnetic, and I'm assuming that is where your problem comes from.

My bad, you are correct. I got the aluminum hub confused with the needle. The companies I contacted answered yes to my question if their needles were aluminum. I can only assume they thought I was asking about the hub. If indeed the needles made from surgical steel are not very magnetic, the needles I linked above according to the manufacturer (China) (I hate buying from China) are not made from surgical steel. They are heavy duty needles made for large farm animals and dispensing industrial fluids. Me not knowing very much about needles had me confused. These needles may still not be magnetic enough for what I want to do but I am sure I will find some eventually. Thanks for setting me straight! I love learning no matter what the subject.


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#39 Juthro

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 01:17 PM

It was an easy mistake to make, I'm glad I could help.  I know that in cookware some stainless will work with induction, and some will not.  But I don't remember what the differences are in the alloys that makes it so.  I assume that this is the issue with the needles, but I'm just guessing.

 

If you figure out why, or how to make it work I hope you will post it back here, please.

 

Peace, and learning to us all, friend :)


Edited by Juthro, 31 October 2019 - 01:18 PM.

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#40 Jinroh

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Posted 31 October 2019 - 03:37 PM

It was an easy mistake to make, I'm glad I could help.  I know that in cookware some stainless will work with induction, and some will not.  But I don't remember what the differences are in the alloys that makes it so.  I assume that this is the issue with the needles, but I'm just guessing.

 

If you figure out why, or how to make it work I hope you will post it back here, please.

 

Peace, and learning to us all, friend :)

I plan to post everything that I discover to this forum. We have to share the wealth. It is the least I can do with all the help I received from everyone here.

I doubt I would have any progress at all without the archives!


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