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Bod's Unmodified Monotub TEK (reference from Shroomery)


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#1 coorsmikey

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 01:47 PM

I see a lot of people come to Mycotopia using Teks from other forums posting as it is common knowledge here as well. I rarely have the opportunity to spend time on the other forum and I feel I speak for many others too. I'm not sure if the people posting here just don't want to post on those forums or perhaps they just like a tek from there and the members here. We do have awesome members here! Some that have the knowledge and skill set to help others no matter where the tek came from. Frankly I feel any tek out there has been done one way or another by Legacy members here even if no body labeled claim to it by calling it their own tek. However all that stuff works, someone takes the time to document and author a thread detailing a grow they did is helpful for others to follow. There are many many teks on the OMC, Some are written decades ago and get lost in the vaults. Some are similar to others and someone adds their own twist to and its sticks.
Anyway, This one I hear folks talking about all the time and until now I have had no idea what tek it was. Actually I still don't know because I am copy and pasting without reading yet. I'm sure by the time I am done I will have read it. For the sake of reference, especially for our members that prefer not to go elsewhere. Here is Bod's Unmodified Monotub TEK from Shroomery. Original author of this compilation is a bodhisatta. Quoted here so when someone like me sees someone posting about Bod's tek we can know what they are talking about. I would also like to note that this tek does not use a tote with a million holes in it (SGFC) and the result speak for themselves.

 

 

Bod's Unmodified Monotub TEK


 

 



 

Bodhisatta said:
All TEKs, by any author, that have results, can and will work. The TEK can only take you so far. Discrepancy in results is due to experience and skill. Yes some people will pull it off the first time. Well wrote TEKs aim to help anyone achieve the best results on their first attempt by being as clear and descriptive as possible. Despite that no TEK can provide you with first hand experience. Rest assured knowing that bad results have pretty much everything to do with operator error and there's an abundance of examples of most all current methods working extremely well. You can figure it out and the people of the online mushroom community can help. The more you document and correctly follow methods the easier diagnosis of problems will be. Best of luck to all cultivators
 



 

 



This TEK is specific to these tubs

Sterilite® Air Tight Storage Tote - Transparent with Aquarium Blue Latch 32 54 & 80 Qt sizes. The 80q is my least favorite. I largely use the 54 but the 32 is great too.

Other tubs may work, if you're familiar with the principles of operation feel free to experiment and contribute. As always think outside the box, things can be a lot more simple and efficient often times. 

I have not recommended any other tubs because I have not used any other ones. I'm sure that other kinds of tubs would work just fine. You'll want a clear lid at the very least. If you use a different tub I expect you to have enough experience to be able to judge your conditions accordingly, or if you don't have any experience to be willing to deal with your learning curve. 
 

To make a Monotub you will need Spawn and Substrate


Here's how I make grain spawn with Oats

Here's how I make my substrate




How It Works




408691879-thumb_unmodified_FC_1.jpg
Flip the lid upside down.
This creates air gaps around the 4 lid locks which is important for allowing air exchange as well as substrate moisture regulation.

408691919-thumb_unmodified_FC_2.jpg

408691946-thumb_unmodified_FC_3.jpg

The lid is NOT latched down, EVER


after having done some trials I put my tubs into fruiting conditions(lid upside down for air gaps) immediately. I have noticed faster colonization times, faster times to pinning as well. Cubensis is an aerobic organism, While some old books talk about high co2 during colonization my own tests show clearly that FAE right away is superior. Try it out for yourself and do your own side by sides and let the community know. 

I now make no distinction between colonization conditions and fruiting conditions. I just chose to call it 
Growing Conditions
My tubs do not dry out being in "fruiting conditions" during "colonization"
My yields have stayed the same. My time to full colonization has decreased as has the time to pinning and harvest. 
I have always had exposed top grains, doing "fruiting conditions" immediately has not caused an issue even with exposed grains. 


This tub fruiting method is extremely low maintenance. No fanning is required, mist if needed, which will be infrequently. Some occasions I find I have to actually remove the lid because the surface is too moist, other times the corners get a little dry and need a light misting. If you can brush your teeth at home you have more than enough time to visit a tub once or twice during fruiting. 

As said above you may have to mist twice a day or once every few days or even not at all. I will sometimes bottom water by pouring water down the sides of the tub after the pins are in, and as always only mist if the surface needs it. Bottom watering is usually helpful for subsequent flushes. If you're using this tek you shouldn't need to ask me how to water your mushrooms. You need to develop a feel for it and deal with that learning curve or already have the experience under your belt in dealing with fruiting substrates. Of course you can jump right in but don't expect to know everything overnight. 

surface conditions are very important. You can't simply whip one of these together and expect it to work with no experience, no eye for things, no mycologist's green thumb.

Skill plays a much of a roll as methods. You also need to be able to produce clean spawn and determine conditions. 



Lighting


you can use tube fluorescent lights for multiple tubs. There's far more than one correct way to arrive at great results. 

I have long since abandoned using the one light per tub and now use shop lights for multiple tubs. Lighting from the side and top doesn't matter. I strongly suggest using florescent lights rather than LED lights. Florescent tubes are actually MORE EFFICIENT in watts per lumen as well they also put out a more full spectrum of light than almost all LED lighting even if both are listed as 6500K.

Florescent T8 4 foot long tubes work well 
The Spectralux 901616 4 ft. - 32 Watt - T8 - 6500K - 2900 Lumens - High Output bulb works well in a appropriate fixture. You don't need the exact same lighting setup as me. Mushrooms don't photosynthesis but like humans act funny if kept completely devoid of light. Yes they will grow in complete darkness but they will look fucking stupid and no be nearly as presentable. Mushrooms do derive a noticeable positive benefit from adequate lighting. 


Some additional things to be aware of


You will have to adjust as necessary to get everything just right so the surface does not dry out in between the times you're able to visit your grow.
I brush my teeth twice a day so I can handle looking at my tubs once or twice a day. Often times there needs be no adjustment at all, and every other day on average a misting.

I fruit these just fine in 10-20% RH indoors so I suggest skipping the casing layer, but some people need have their ways. Do what works for you always. 

I almost never use a casing layer myself, On occasion I will use a top layer of coir 1/8-1/4 inch thick. With varieties like PE that take a bit longer to pin this can aid some people in keeping conditions good. The top layer of coir is more of a pesudocasing

most of the time I opt to just go with straight up mixed spawn+substrate with no top layer at all (grains showing on the surface)

When spawning I have in the past used a trash bag as a liner. I mixed in the trash bag and then put into the tub. and then pushed it flush to the corners and tried to make the surface as level as possible
you should give good attention to making your substrate surface level. 

Currently I completely avoid use of a liner at all period. If you look at my harvest TEK you'll see I get no side pins even without the use of a liner.

Using a liner is a crutch to help with side pinning, side pins can be avoided by proper surface conditions and a nice flat even level surface. If you chose to use a liner a clear one works just fine, it works by preventing a micro-climate at the sides, light has nothing to do with side pins. 


Space Management

Yes, you can stack them. Rocket science commence in
3.
2.
1.
714541806-thumb_unbodified_stack.jpg
yes it's sturdy. No, they don't stack as nice as a traditional 6 hole monotub would
714673779-thumb_ape_in_micropore_dialed_

I put colonizing tubs on the top of the stack since heat rises they'll stay perhaps a bit warmer than the rest. 
(I no longer stack I use shelving)



Timetable, Yields, Biological Efficiency(BE%)

Fastest possible way if you already have mycelium. Add the time it takes to get clean mycelium on agar or a clean grain jar fully colonized from a spore syringe if you have no inoculum ready

Agar wedge to grain water LC takes 3-5 days before you can use. Agitated once a day with glass in the bottom. 
LC to quart of spawn takes 3-4 days to colonize if you use the right amount
g2g is 3-4 days to colonize using 1:10

spawn run is 8-10 days. pins in 10-14 days. harvest in 15-21 days.(best case)

yield 1-2 oz per quart using MS cultures. more with clones.

I use only oats and only coir. people are tied up using verm and gypsum and substrates that require lengthy and energy intensive pasteurization.

coir goes into a bucket I pour boiling water on it. wait a day and use it.

oats get boiled 30m, drained and ready to be sterilized.

oats are $12 for 50 pounds

case of petri dishes 75$ (lasts me about a half a year)
enough oats to make 103 quarts $12
enough coir to make 20 tubs (5q per tub) $30
agar agar powder is 1$ to make a few liters. so negligible. the media itself is leftover water from boiling oats. same with the LCs. So that's free

Depending on other expenditures you're at 1-2 dollars per oz for initial returns.
Once you have everything you need and only need to buy oats and coir to re-supply it gets under a dollar an ounce. if you grow 2oz per quart you're at 50c or less.

any good monotub is completely set and forget requiring no fanning or misting at all start to harvest. Your time is worth money. If you so chose you can completely neglect a monotub if your substrate moisture and FAE are dialed in.

At any given time if you had no LC or spawn ready but had mycelium ready on agar
to harvest mushrooms would be 25 days, at the best case scenario shortest time, if you go LC route

if you had no mycelium on agar you could put spores right to grain. Wait 2-3 weeks for the grain jars to colonize. use the best one for g2g and spawn the rest if healthy and get mushrooms in a hair over a month + more spawn.

most people don't get caught in a situation where they have to start from absolute scratch but the first few times they grow. It becomes an assembly line so your time table approaches 0 days to harvest if you do enough mycology work every week. 

Once you are established and only need to buy oats and coir to maintain a grow cycle
one bag of oats and enough coir is $43-45. that will make bare minimum 103 ounces of shrooms if you run into no failure.

using just coir and oats I can calculate BE very easily as well

650g of coir in your grow and 220g of dry oats per quart
say you use 5q of spawn to one brick 650g of coir for a a tub
that's a dry weight of ingredients of 1750 grams.
to calculate BE it's wet weight / dry weight of everything used
so you will need 1750 wet grams or 350 grams wet per quart to achieve 100% BE
my cubes dry up to be about 93% water usually
1750 wet gives me ~122.5 dry or ~24.5 dry per quart. 

so anything over 24.5g dry per quart is over 100% BE for me. simply 1oz dry per quart is over 100%(~114%) and 2oz dry is over 200%(~228%)

 

Harvesting

Bod's Easy AF harvesting TEK

066844381-thumb_harvest_and_dry_TEK_15.j 066844035-thumb_harvest_and_dry_TEK_9.jp 066843944-thumb_harvest_and_dry_TEK_8.jp 066843616-thumb_harvest_and_dry_TEK_4.jp 066843553-thumb_harvest_and_dry_TEK_3.jp 
 

Results

 


Edited by coorsmikey, 15 October 2019 - 02:13 PM.

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#2 coorsmikey

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 01:49 PM

Bod's Easy AF Oat Prep TEK (for making oat grain spawn)

 

You Will Need

some oats, 
They're for horses, race horses. Should come in a 50 pound bag for about 10-15 dollars.

They look like this and come in bags like this
831269337-thumb_oats_close.jpg 831269358-thumb_oats.jpg 831269375-thumb_oats1.jpg 831269392-thumb_oats2.jpg 831269407-thumb_oats3.jpg



you don't want rolled oats, or oats for human consumption which have the hulls removed

You will also need a Large pot and a pressure cooker, or use your pressure cooker as a large pot

Due to the absolute simplicity of oat prep there will be few pictures 

for each quart jar measure out 1-1.25 cup(s) of oats by volume or 250-315mL 

For 10 jars (what fits in my 23q presto) you need 10-12 cups of oats or 2.5-3 quarts of dry oats. 

Since weight is easier and more reliable I just weigh out 210-220 grams per quart jar or 180 grams if using them for g2g receiving jars as they need some extra room. 

into a large pot big enough to hold three times the height of the oats in water 8-10 liters or so.
831300863-thumb_New_Bitmap_Image.png
something like that where the yellow is oats and the blue is water 3x taller than the oats

bring it to a boil on high heat, put a lid on and reduce the heat. You want it is boiling still(not a simmer a full on boil)

forget about it for 30-45 minutes

come back check the grain a few should be burst by now, if not go a bit longer

when a few grains start to get burst pour all the grains into large enough colanders
255247976-thumb_IMG_20170418_161848470.j255248131-thumb_IMG_20170418_161844041.j

then forget about it for 30-60 minutes, stir once or shake if possible to get it to steam off more efficiently 
255247866-thumb_IMG_20170418_161855745.j
255247746-thumb_IMG_20170418_163147311.j
255247647-thumb_IMG_20170418_163154874.j
they should leave very little water behind on a paper towel or piece of toilet paper

you can load into jars immediately while still warm/hot 
2/3 full

255247471-thumb_IMG_20170418_165219.jpg255247319-thumb_IMG_20170418_164325358.j

pressure cook at 15-18psi for 2 hours (for quart sized jars)

Jars should shake freely after sterilization even without the use of gypsum 

I personally find that drier grains perform way better than anything too wet. I sometimes prepare lots of grain a day ahead of time let it dry in the colander for a few hours then put it in the fridge overnight. It almost seems too dry, you can't get it too dry. If I have the time I vastly prefer to make the grain on the dry side. 

If you're interested in endospore theory and soak vs no soak theory
then please click here

30m to get oats to a boil
30-45m to boil the oats
30-60m to strain the oats depending on volume and how spread out you can get them etc..
3 hours with the pressure cook, 30m to pressure 2 hour cook 30m til it hits 0 and you can open it and take the jars out

only 4.5-5.5 hours for the first batch of 10 jars dry grain to sterilized jars being taken out of the cooker

subsequent runs can be prepared during the sterilization cycle of the first batch of grains 
subsequent batches will only take ~3 hours then.

20-30 quarts of grain easily done in a day while just lingering around the house on a weekend. Doesn't even really feel like work

time to pressure cook them oats (link to pressure cooker TEK)

374056700-thumb_IMG_20170106_160626.jpg830912314-thumb_g2g_polyfil_lid_receivin830912258-thumb_g2g_polyfil_lid_fully_co830912204-thumb_g2g_polyfil_lid_fully_co831113321-thumb_IMG_20170228_134428752.j


886088723-thumb_pesa_6.75_days_162_hours
g2g receiving jars 6.75 days(162 hours)

 


Edited by coorsmikey, 15 October 2019 - 02:24 PM.

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#3 coorsmikey

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 01:50 PM




You will need

650g of coir, preferably in a brick form
424904642-thumb_IMG_20170112_132254917.j
3 x 650g bricks, try to find nice uniform ones, it's a VERY GOOD idea to weigh them first to make sure they're actually 650g. these things are made with little to no quality control so...

891321865-thumb_IMG_20170307_125759.jpg
I find these for 6.99 a 3pk at the garden store. 

an insulated 5 gallon water dispenser/cooler, or any other insulated container that's about 5 gal in volume. 
666389992-thumb_rubbermaid_5_gallon_insu

5+ quarts of boiling water

How it's done

pour a quart+ of boiling water into your insulated water cooler. Put the lid on and shake it up.
this pre-heats the bucket's insulation
*you don't really need to do this and I often don't because I have shit to do*

Dump out the water now you have a preheated cooler.

put your coir brick in the bucket (650 grams)

I actually weigh out 800g off of a big brick and water like so.
1/6 coir by weight 5/6 water by weight 0/6th coffee 0/6 vermiculite 
200g coir to 1000g(1L) water 
(200g coir/1200g total=1/6th coir 1000g/1200g=5/6th water)
400g coir to 2000g(2L) water
800g coir to 4000g(4L) water
PROtip: multiply your coir weight by 5 to get your water weight. use the metric system and your water weight is your water volume thumbup.gif

always check field capacity your coir might not be the same as my coir. 

830912137-thumb_bucket_tek.jpg
(650g brick into preheated cooler like so, pour boiling water on it)

Start with whatever weight of coir you want to use and multiply it by 5. for 650g of coir that's 3250. which is 3.25L of water. 

These numbers are what I use but each person will have a different experience. It's a VERY GOOD idea to check field capacity rather than assume the recipe you follow will translate to your house 100% perfectly. 

put the lid on

come back in an hour and mix it up(optional)

put the lid on

use it the next day. If you didn't mix the coir while it was hot, that's a-ok. You can mix it once it's cooled down the next day. Remember to check your field capacity. if it's too wet you can add some vermiculite right from the bag, or wring it out as you go. 
If it's too dry simply add more water(room temperature tap works fine) keep notes so you can hit it dead on next time. 

if you decided to pre-heat the bucket the coir will be hot for nearly a whole day. you can pour it into a tub(that you're going to use to make a tub) so it cools down faster. Or just skip that step and it will be cool the next day. 

if you do decide to mix it up after an hour or two it will save you the hassle of breaking a few clumps the next day.
I stirred some up after 90 minutes and the temperature was still 170F
891985595-thumb_IMG_20170307_145002.jpg


Sometimes you want to do more. You can do two at a time in a bigger cooler
891534956-thumb_IMG_20170307_133445.jpg 891535032-thumb_IMG_20170307_133505.jpg
I preheat with 2-3 q of boiling water and then use roughly 8q of boiling water for the two bricks. 
after 90m the temperature should still be at 170F
891985511-thumb_IMG_20170307_144938.jpg
I find it's a good idea to do the mixing after an hour or two with the bigger coir preps like this, you'll have too many clumps the next day and it's a bit of a hassle. After 90m I can do it with a long handled spoon wearing no gloves so don't be a pussy and mix that shit up.



Why it works
Coir or CVG(coir verm gypsum)
DOES NOT require pasteurization, there are no beneficial thermophilic microbes thus there's no reason to pasteurize. 

Partial sterilization is 170F for 10 minutes. Of course this is not true sterilization but it's past pasteurization. 

Coir works better cooked, you can simply hydrate coir with tap water and use it as a substrate, but mycelium enjoys cooked coir more, hence why I use an insulated bucket.

I find the temperatures in the bucket to be well above 170F over an hour later. This makes the coir come out a nice dark color which is what I look for. 


Field capacity
Described as the amount of water your substrate will hold before moisture/water will come out on it's own. It's how much water something can hold onto before gravity will cause pooling on the bottom. Generally it's tested by squeezing a handful of substrate and judging dripping that comes off. You want a few drops to a small stream that trickles to a stop quickly.



results


681393625-thumb_IMG_20161018_245028534.j
coir + verm, no gypsum used

482191063-thumb_IMG_20160925_095521994.j
coir + verm, no gypsum used

869693512-thumb_IMG_20160716_110055.jpg
coir+verm, no gypsum used

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Coir + verm, no gypsum used

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Only Coir, (MS genetics)

599159926-thumb_IMG_20170201_171307342.j
Only Coir

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only coir

I kept these ESS tubs around just to show how hard it is to contaminate coir substrates
884043442-thumb_IMG_20170306_164635.jpg
Spawned on 1/12/17
First pins 1/24/17
Harvested first flush 2/2/17
Pictured 3/6/17
On the 5/6th flush
53-54 days old. shrunk, covered in spores, torn up, chunks missing, and no mold anywhere 
Bad spawn fucks tubs.
 

 


Edited by coorsmikey, 15 October 2019 - 02:27 PM.

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#4 coorsmikey

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 01:54 PM

 

Bod's Easy AF harvesting TEK
How to harvest canopies in minutes, and avoid fruits that need to be cleaned of substrate debris


First you need a tub with some shrooms that need harvesting.
and you will need a faucet and a hose that attaches to the faucet.

066843477-thumb_harvest_and_dry_TEK_1.jp
Start pouring water into the side of the tub with the hose.
Set the faucet to slightly cool water but not cold. Something your hands feel comfortable in.

066843520-thumb_harvest_and_dry_TEK_2.jp
Avoid getting the stems of the fruit all wet. It will just make it more of a hassle to dry them out later.

066843553-thumb_harvest_and_dry_TEK_3.jp066843616-thumb_harvest_and_dry_TEK_4.jp066843682-thumb_harvest_and_dry_TEK_5.jp
Now she's full

I like to start at one corner
066843819-thumb_harvest_and_dry_TEK_6.jp

066843884-thumb_harvest_and_dry_TEK_7.jp
066843944-thumb_harvest_and_dry_TEK_8.jp
keep going around

066844035-thumb_harvest_and_dry_TEK_9.jp
I like to go around the outside first, the substrate if it has a big full flush will start to sink on the unharvested side.

066844086-thumb_harvest_and_dry_TEK_10.j066844174-thumb_harvest_and_dry_TEK_11.j
you may notice no side pins and no liners, the list of my TEKs are at the very top of all of my TEKs.

066844222-thumb_harvest_and_dry_TEK_12.j066844322-thumb_harvest_and_dry_TEK_14.j066844381-thumb_harvest_and_dry_TEK_15.j
There she is all harvested.

066844468-thumb_harvest_and_dry_TEK_16.j
Time to siphon out the water. If you don't know what a siphon is or how to start one maybe you should google it instead of sending me a PM asking.

066844511-thumb_harvest_and_dry_TEK_17.j
Down she goes.

066844545-thumb_harvest_and_dry_TEK_18.j
and down

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Tilt it to the corner to get the last of it

066844634-thumb_harvest_and_dry_TEK_20.j
Nice, carry it to your dehydrator.

People ask me a lot about STUMPS vs the twist and pull
I always leave stumps
150115214-thumb_IMG_20170406_102922.jpg150115002-thumb_IMG_20170405_185703397.j
They leave a nice microclimate for the next flush pinset. They do not cause contamination if you have a healthy substrate. A coir tub should go to flush 4 easily, if you let it go that long, with no contamination if your spawn is clean and you keep your conditions up. 

 


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#5 coorsmikey

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 02:22 PM

 



Bod's Pressure Cooker Use TEK
how to run a jiggle weight pressure cooker quietly and with littler water loss

 

Quote:
bodhisatta said:
Use of a Presto Pressure Cooker

 







I strongly recommend the Presto 23 quart pressure cooker (pressure canner)
Presto 01781 23-Quart Pressure Canner and Cooker 

It will hold 10 Quart jars
How you ask?
7 on the bottom and 3 on top
Wide mouth jars fit this way
012659679-thumb_IMG_20170321_150233.jpg
Narrow mouth jars fit this way
012659584-thumb_IMG_20170321_150216.jpg

The 16 quart Presto model will only hold 7 Quart jars.
Presto 01745 16-Quart pressure Canner and Cooker

The manual for the presto 23q says it only holds 7 jars. Because they would never tell you to put jars on their side. It's fine for our spawn jars and this way you can get 10 done in a run.


Other Pressure Cookers work, You can use All American brand stereoclave/autoclave/sterilizers/pressure cookers. Or any other size cooker of any brand mirro or presto, etc...

I personally would rather buy a few more 23q prestos than buying an AA. AA makes an amazing product that holds its value. They also look like bombs, are heavier, and cost a fortune up front. If you need the bling factor get an AA. 

This TEK will cover the use of pressure cooker/canners that use a jiggle type weight on top. 
Sterilizers use a toggle valve to release over-pressure. AA canners can be turned into sterilizers by replacing the jiggle weight with a toggle.

Some sterilizers also have built in heating elements. Thus being able to be used anywhere that has a power outlet. AA makes sterilizers with built in elements. They're pretty fucking badass. 

First Things First
Read the user manual for your pressure cooker

You can find the PDF for the presto models on their website
https://www.gopresto...php?stock=01781


Water Level
The presto 23q says to use 3 quarts of water. This may seem like a lot of water but it's fine, DO IT. Your pressure cooker may say to use more or less water depending how big or small it is.

In addition to the water you add you'll want to add 1-2 tablespoons of white distilled vinegar. This will make your jars come out looking sparkling clean rather than white and dingy from the hard water deposits. 

Ideally you would use distilled water but who is going to buy jugs of distilled just to run their pressure cooker, Tap water works fine with the vinegar trick. I use very hot tap water to fill my cooker. Routine maintenance means I never worry about mineral deposits or hard water problems. 

Obviously, The cleaner or more filtered your water the better, less mineral deposits, less corrosion that you'll have to clean etc... 
you could also use an electric kettle or microwave to pre-heat the filtered or distilled water to speed things up

255247539-thumb_IMG_20170418_164146329.j
here's 3 quarts of water in a presto 23
255247122-thumb_IMG_20170418_164712136.j
here's where it comes up to on the first layer of jars

Later on I explain the importance of venting, it's very important. Because we do not want trapped air in the pressure cooker I ensure I leave no air bubbles from the space under the jars
here's how
255247241-thumb_IMG_20170418_165112.jpg
put these jars in first leaving the 7th jar to go in on the side not the center.
255247038-thumb_IMG_20170418_165100.jpg
tilt the jars into the water so there's no air bubble trapped beneath them. practice with empty jars if you have to see the bubble and how to get it out. 

when you get to the 7th jar like in the above picture tilt that one as well and do your best to get the air bubble out. 

then you can put the other 3 jars on top
255246914-thumb_IMG_20170418_165045.jpg


The Trivet
012809817-thumb_trivet.jpg
every cooker should come with one of these, otherwise you'll want to buy one that fits in your cooker.

Above I said to use the recommended water level, With the presto 23 that's 3 quarts of water. 

If you put 7 quart jars in the bottom the water will come just under half way up the side of the jar, This is fine.

As long as half of your jar is above water there's sufficient contact surface for STEAM. STEAM is what does the sterilization you want your jars to have at least 50% of their surface above the water so that steam can transfer energy to the jars.

Say you only want to sterilize a few jars or a bottle of agar. You put the jar(s) in your presto 23q cooker and put 3 quarts of water in. You'll find out the jar(s) start to float or wont sit on the trivet. This doesn't mean you should use less water. It means you need to raise your trivet up.

The best way to raise the trivet is to put some balls of foil, jar lids, etc... anything that wont melt and can stay in a pressure cooker during a cycle. With the trivet raised up your jars will not float away when you're only trying to sterilize a few things at once. Raise the trivet up otherwise they'll float around and tip over during the cycle. 

The Gasket
Most pressure cookers use a rubber gasket to seal the lid to the bottom. 
These gaskets will easily last 3 or more years of routine weekly use if maintained. Regardless it's less than 10 dollars for a replacement so even if you destroy it after 2 years it's dirt cheap.

Every cycle remove the gasket and inspect it for cracks or other defects.

Stretch the gasket out a little bit using your hands by pulling on it. While you're gently stretching the gasket have a little mineral oil or petroleum jelly on your hands to slightly lubricate the gasket (Petroleum jelly isn't recommended for rubber but well it fucking works great)

The best option would be silicone oil which can be found in the plumbing section. This will not deteriorate the rubber at all. 

Gently put the gasket back into the lid. Then put the lid on the cooker as per instructions.

Starting Up the Cycle: Venting

My thread dedicated to the importance of venting. Yes it deserved it's very own extra thread

I usually will use very hot tap water or near boiling water to fill the pressure cooker. 

Once the lid is on MAKE SURE the weight is OFF. Turn the heat to high

Once it starts to boil you'll see steam coming out of the top of the lid. After a minute or two the safety plug and the locking mechanism will pop up, at this time you will not be able to remove the lid unless you kill the heat and let the safety valve drop back down. 

Once steam comes out of the top set a timer for 10 minutes. NO LESS

https://en.wikipedia...artial_pressure
You don't want to pressurize AIR you want to pressurize water vapor/steam 

if you do not properly vent there will be air trapped in your jars still and in the void space in the cooker. Your gauge will eventually read 15psi but if you know anything about partial pressure you will not actually be at 15psi of steam pressure but X psi of steam and Y psi of air where X+Y=15. This means you're sterilizing at a lower temperature than expected. In a static volume each gas in a mixture exerts the pressure it would as if it were the only gas in that volume. All of these partial pressures add up to the total pressure you see on the gauge. This is Dalton's law of partial pressure. 

022546923-thumb_IMG_20170322_182954.jpg 

022546945-thumb_IMG_20170322_182929.jpg
as you can see from the graphs at 1bar or 15psig 100% steam is 121C or 250F

Say you still have 10% air left from improper venting. If your gauge reads 15psi you're actually at ~116.5C or ~242F. Not only that but it actually makes the steam transfer heat less effectively so it's a compounded problem 

if you can imagine the jars are filled with air(let alone the volume of the PC), this needs a good 10 minutes to escape. As the heat increases in the cooker, the grains will start to evaporate/boil their moisture and push the air out through the filters/lids of your jars. The whole volume of void space in jars and in your PC needs to be filled with water vapor/steam. Since there's no way to test this we vent at least 10 minutes. 

Starting Up the Cycle: Pressurizing

once you've vented for 10 minutes you may notice that you're at a few PSI on the gauge. That's no problem. 

Put your weight on and you'll start to see the needle rise. I leave the cooker on high to medium-high during this stage.
012954199-thumb_weight.jpg

There's many different shapes and kinds of weights, yours may not look like that one.

As soon as the pressure gets close to 15 you will need to turn the stove down to maintain pressure. If you leave the stove on too high the weight will jiggle, make noise, you'll lose water more quickly as well. You only need the stove hot enough to MAINTAIN the pressure. 

I put 3 quarters (15-18 grams) of weight on top of my jiggle weight. 
I simply used some tape and put them right on top

This is how I run my pressure cooker quietly and with very little water loss.

The cooker is designed so that the weight jiggles at 15psi and we're trying to sterilize at 15psi. So with no added weight the weight will jiggle and make noise the whole cycle. Fuck that.

If you add a little weight to the jiggle weight. Then you can leave your pressure cooker at 15psi by adjustment of the heat and it will not jiggle. The added weight makes jiggling at 18-19psi so as long as you run it at 15-18psi it will be nearly silent and you'll lose almost no water.

551343550-thumb_IMG_20170522_232221.jpg
 

 


Edited by coorsmikey, 15 October 2019 - 02:43 PM.


#6 coorsmikey

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 02:41 PM

 

 rs.
 
The Importance of Venting a Pressure Cooker or Autoclave

Two test have been conducted so far one with a presto 23q and one with an AA 25x sterilizer.

A nearly new presto 23q pressure cooker was used for this test
There was one quarter taped to the weight. 
The first trial I put the lid on the cooker with 1q of the hottest tap water I have inside. Put the weight on the lid immediately. no venting done. Turned the stove to 10.
As soon as the weight started to jiggle I killed the heat.

808999326-thumb_20180927_1715512.jpg
244F ±2F

The second trial I put the lid on the cooker with 1q of the hottest tap water I have inside. I turned the stove to 10. vented for 10m after steam appeared from the vent. put the weight on and as soon as the weight started to jiggle I killed the heat

808999043-thumb_20180927_1809062.jpg
258-259F ±2F

For both test runs I put the trivet in and two empty mason jars upright with no lid to stand the thermometer on. 
In both tests the needle on the gauge got up in between 17-18psi 
at 18psi I shouln't have seen such high temperatures on the thermometer but considering the thermometer is calibrated to NIST and the gauge on the presto is from china I'm going to go with the gauge being a hair off on the low side. The gauge is accurate to one scale division so ±2F 

This may seem like a small difference but the difference is huge in terms of sterilization effectiveness. Not only is the temperature lower but the lower heat capacity of air compared to steam means you are not as energetically pumping the heat into the media being sterilized. Steam has a high latent heat.

Steam has more "heat torque" than air
Quote:
Latent heat can be understood as heat energy in hidden form which is supplied or extracted to change the state of a substance without changing its temperature.


steam forces way more energy into the media than air does. 


Quote:
Because of a much higher heat capacity, steam and liquids transfer heat more rapidly than air. For example, the hot air inside an oven at 200 °C (392 °F) will not immediately burn your skin, but the steam from a boiling kettle at 100 °C (212 °F) will scald skin almost instantly and feel hotter, despite the steam (and water) in the kettle being at a lower temperature than the air inside a hot oven. Thus the internal temperature of material in a pressure cooker will rise to the desired value much more quickly than if it were in an oven. 



  Quote:

It is very important to ensure that all of the trapped air is removed from the autoclave before activation, as trapped air is a very poor medium for achieving sterility. Steam at 134 °C can achieve in three minutes the same sterility that hot air at 160 °C can take two hours to achieve



  Quote:
Effective moist-heat sterilization depends on having saturated steam conditions. When air is present in the system to be sterilized, saturated steam temperature and pressure conditions no longer apply. 

The air dilutes the steam and a lower temperature than expected is imposed at a given pressure. Trapped pockets of pure air completely prevent steam contact and provide dry-heat sterilization conditions.




Test 2 with an All American 25x sterilizer with the vent tube removed
Using no basket just the trivet rack. Starting with hot ~140F tap water for both runs.

for both runs I'm going to bring it up to 15 psi and toggle the on off switch to keep it at 15psi for 5m. Then kill it. 

For the venting run ill vent 10m. Get to 15m and hold it there 5m then kill it. For the non vent run I'm putting the lid on with the toggle closed and skipping the venting entirely

Interesting enough is that with the toggle closed from the beginning (0 venting) I could stand to hold my hand on the lid with pressure registered on the gauge. Because air was getting compressed before the water was even boiling. And once it started to boil it quickly compressed air giving an abnormally high pressure for a low temperature.

835930876-thumb_20180930_2100062.jpg


Got up to 15.5-16psi kept it there 5m before shutting down. This is what I got off the thermometer. Very interesting.
836219073-thumb_20180930_2112312.jpg 836219174-thumb_20180930_2146452.jpg
212±2F

Here's the reading from the vented run. Also hit close to 16 psi during the 5m hold.
836488126-thumb_20180930_2231172.jpg
252±2F

that's a 40F difference and there was a 5 minute hold just to make extra sure the thermometer registered the temp at 15psi. 


The toggle holds in air better than the jiggle weight on the presto. so the presto sort of vents itself during the run, the toggle on the AA really trapped the air in it seems. 




Vent your pressure cooker

 

 


Edited by coorsmikey, 15 October 2019 - 02:42 PM.

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#7 Soliver

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Posted 15 October 2019 - 10:01 PM

Woof.  Comprehensive writeups there.  A guy I know only uses coir for cube grows anymore - it's just too easy.

 

:)

 

soliver


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#8 Amped313

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 02:19 AM

Would anyone know if using spore syringe with the oats, how many cc per quart jar?

#9 FunG

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Posted 25 October 2019 - 03:22 AM

Qt jar 1cc

1l jar 1.5cc

Liters are larger then qt's

The write up is excellent, I knew everything mentioned but venting for 10minutes is knew, I thought you capped as soon as a steady flow of steam escaped without any breaks in it.....this tek is telling me that I've been pressure cooking wrong the entire time but my weight still doesnt jiggle so it could still be pressure leaks from a crappy seal or other defect....

I'm going to give wbs one more try and vent for 10min then cap and see what happens....if it works I'll praise bod even though those unmodded tubs kinda seem a little similar to my unmodded tubs only using seran wrap with pin holes.... big shrugs here.

#10 Severian

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Posted 30 May 2020 - 06:10 AM

I'm seeing this here now; and am currently in the middle of testing this

 

Will report back when results begin coming.



#11 Severian

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Posted 11 June 2020 - 12:27 PM

Here's some photos of the grow following this tek

 

IMG-0309.jpg

 

IMG-0310.jpg

 

 

IMG-0312.jpg

 

IMG-0313.jpg

 

IMG-0314.jpg

 

 

 

IMG-0315.jpg

 

 

 

I guess that this issue is really a non-question for most growers, as I see most people using black trash liners to cut down on side pins- thus making it impossible to judge the percent of colonization based off of the view of the surface alone-

 

The surface of this tub was fully colonized maybe 4-5 days ago

 

Ambient temps 60-70

 

Spawned to Monotub on 5/29- so 13 days ago

 

Is it time to initate FC? Or should I wait until there's no more visible sub?



#12 Severian

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Posted 15 June 2020 - 08:06 PM

Started to see some baby side pins maybe 1-2 days ago; Today there are visible pins on the surface- Looking at a week of nice temps so hoping that will translate into faster growth. Photos to come soon.



#13 Mycol

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Posted 16 June 2020 - 08:56 PM

Does the use of only coir effect potency ?

#14 Dabluebonic

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Posted 19 June 2020 - 08:44 PM

Does the use of only coir effect potency ?


All my grows have been setup very different. I've ran 5 unmodified tubs, 4 dubtubs, 4 modified tubs, 5 cakes in a fc, 2 small experimental grows.

I've used just coir, just verm, coir + verm, coir+verm+EC. For grain spawn I've used bird seed, wholebrown rice..

I can honestly say i could not tell any difference in potency from any of these grows. The only way i felt a difference was between species. This is only my experience tho, if there is a way to noticeably increase potency with cubes, id love to hear it!

#15 Severian

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 09:15 AM

So, I have to say that I really appreciate this tek.

 

There are a number of factors that played into this flush being great- One of which being it was my first time working with a 'semi' isolate vs plain ol multispore, and I'd have to say the other is the ease of this tek- Being a noob grower, and only having a couple of less-than-satisfying dubtub flushes under my belt, I certainly did fall prey to the impatient- want to love them to death energy- But, this is truly set and forget

 

I fanned once upon initiating FC, and then left it alone, no misting, no fanning, and the high internal humidity, as seen by the condensation on the walls, was more than enough to keep the surface substrate just where it wanted to be.

 

Strain is Redboy,

~5 qts of spawn to ~12 qts coir/coffee/poo sub- didn't record exactly what the mix was- something like 10 qts coir, .5qt coffee 1.5 qt alpaca poo

 

This tek calls for a sterilite gasket box, but, as you can see, Ziplocks version works perfectly well

 

Temps fluctuating between

 

58-89 degrees, with the last few days being +80 for the majority of the day.

 

For Lighting, it was ambient sun coming through the windows, of which it got a lot throughout the day.

 

Spawned to bulk on 5/29

Initiated Fruiting Conditions on 6/14 after seeing first pins

First visible pins on 6/13

First top pins on 6/14

Began harvesting today 6/21 (solstice!)

 

 

You can also see, that relatively, there are not a ton of side pins! I had less side pins on this tub than I did on my black trashbag linered dubtub.

 

Also, a majority of these have a light blue ring around where the veil was/broke. Which is pretty cool.

 

IMG-0413.jpg

 

IMG-0403.jpg

 

IMG-0405.jpg

 

 

More photos to come later when internet is more fast.


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#16 Dabluebonic

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Posted 20 June 2020 - 11:31 AM

I feel like when i use this method (because of my climate) i need to really pay attention to the fruits. Some could set and forget, while others may need to increase fanning. But that dialed in "sweet spot" would apply to anything you are trying to fruit out of (to my understanding). I like this tek the most because you don't have a sketchy looking tub with polyfill sitting in your room. Shit i could grow mushrooms at my grandmas with this low profile tub lol

#17 Mycol

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Posted 22 June 2020 - 01:19 PM

I’ve seen hearsay of manure Affecting quality and quantity to a degree . I have never tried a side by side of straight coir tub vs coir verm cmc tub with the same strain in both .

Edited by Mycol, 22 June 2020 - 01:28 PM.


#18 sedaeng

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Posted 03 October 2021 - 05:13 PM

Thanks for sharing. Attempting now...






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