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Communal Psilocybe semperviva/hoogshagenii grow?


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#521 Jrotten

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Posted 22 September 2020 - 02:13 PM

Jake/JOC uses fulvic acid if I remember reading right.  I have not.  I did some googling last night to explain what I was seeing with the sawdust and live red oak is 76-83% moisture content where as coir is a huge range of 10-63% but still considerably lower.  I think to make this work right might also require a nitrogen source like manure or coffee grounds, and I'm leaning towards coffee.  But with a very long fruiting life I feel like using bags for colonization, the extra water of the sub could provide for the later flushes.  I might try using a clone LC  to test a few subs I just have no idea how long it would take to determine effectiveness.  Experimenting with 4th flushes of Semperviva yet to even innoculate feels like committing to  something between a variable rate 30yr mortgage and a marriage to the person you divorced once already...


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#522 Jrotten

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Posted 22 September 2020 - 11:25 PM

I actually got grasses growing in my sub by cold lime pasteurizing the grain. Some of it sprouted.

#523 Arch3type

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 11:04 AM

Almost time to harvest my babies haha. One is in a mini mono with only FAE holes about 2.5 inches up with the lid not latched down on top. The other tub is in a 6qt shoebox. It didn't smell right to me when bulking so I separated it, but then I let too much moisture drop from the lid back onto the sub making a mess, so immediately dub tubbed them and they're growing fine for a Shoebox. My goal is as many prints or swabs as possible as it appears the only thing hard about growing these is acquiring the damn spores haha.20200924_120142.jpg 20200924_120038.jpg
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#524 newmoon

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 12:01 PM

Cool! If you want spores let them go until the gills have turned dark, might be another week still.


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#525 Arch3type

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Posted 24 September 2020 - 12:59 PM

Sweet, thanks for the tip to wait a little longer. Definitely haven't seen any dark spots yet from spores. 14 days since pins first appeared.

#526 Jrotten

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 01:57 PM

Another flush is starting. I can see maybe 3-4 pins but I have not looked closely. I had a timer malfunction and everything got SOAKED. Ran the fan for 24 hours and got the timer reset and backed it from every 30 minutes to every 4 hours.

I have 3 clone LC’s ready to go and I made up 3kg of a new sub today in the PC now. 1kg per bag. I’m trying a new tek completely that is direct inoculation of a final substrate. Each bag is probably a quart and a half to a liter and a half. 2” in a 6qt shoebox per bag basically.

125g coir
125g red oak saw dust
Two days worth of coffee grounds from my 2 cup French press (about 8 tbls when it was fresh)
70g of wheat bran
Small handful garden lime
Small handful of gypsum

To that I added 1 liter of dry WBS straight from the bag. I figure hydrated that’s about 2/3 liter of WBS per bag which is roughly a spawn rate of 2-3:1 My plan is to innoculate with 60ml of clone LC and see what happens. I know from Don everything except the sawdust is going to be fine. The saw dust is maybe better than vermiculite for water retention. Definitely holds more water than coir but lacks the texture. The thing I don’t know about with the saw dust is whether it will be treated as a food source or a water reservoir. With the additional nitrogen from the coffee and wheat bran probably both.

If how fast the test batch was overrun with mold (2 days to cover 1square foot!) is an indication this is going to get colonized fast. If it produces fruits and how long that might take is a completely different question.
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#527 coAsTal

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Posted 25 September 2020 - 05:31 PM

Here's the Semp tray tonight-
SempTray9_25.jpg

 

For reference, here it was a week ago just before I harvested the larger ones.

SempTray9_18.jpg

 

Growth seems to have slowed down a lot since then, (that's why I stopped the daily pics) but I also have held way back on the misting after Don told me I was possibly over-watering them and ruining their potency, so maybe the growth speed is directly related to water in the casing.

 

The convex-capped fruits that are in the lower left corner are only about an inch tall and appear fully mature-- so this cased grain experiment is not showing any evidence of good size fruits, nor any more potency than average cubensis fruits based on the 12g wet I tried last week that gave only lightly perceptible threshold effects.

 

I am pleased with the many, many pins I have developing-- they really are all over the place-- but honestly if the fruits are maxing out so tiny in this environment then it's definitely not a method I would bother with recommending if someone were going for useful weights of fruits that were potent enough to justify the time spent on making them.

 

If I had it to do over I would've mixed the rye 50/50 with a sub mix and split the it into two different trays to keep the sub thickness at the same depth it is now (which seems very good at 2").

 

Clearly others have had much better results elsewhere, and my results could be a genetics thing (as a reminder, this is an early T1 transfer from the MS germ plate) or the cased rye method in this tray size (which also produced extremely small 2-3" adult SAT cubes on the first flush), but I am very happy to have at least gotten true Semperviva fruits! I'm also hoping that subsequent flushes will increase the fruit sizes in place of pinsets of mini's. (which seems to be predictably the case)

 

And don't forget, I still have my myco bag in the fruiting chamber, quietly doing it's thing. No real visible progress since I cased it about 2 weeks ago or so, but I have misted it every day or two. I expect it to take far longer to fruit than the tray project, and will update here when something warrants updating.

 

Props and kudos to Jrotten as always-- loving the thought you're putting into the best ways to do this, and  Arch3type your fruits look dynamite, man-- well done!

 

:cool:

 

 


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#528 Arch3type

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 03:05 PM

@CoAsTal thank you!

#529 Asura

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 05:22 PM

I am way behind. JR, my jars of yours never took off. I started more jars with CF's and they

are just now leaping off the agar to the grain.



#530 Jrotten

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Posted 26 September 2020 - 07:52 PM

I am way behind. JR, my jars of yours never took off. I started more jars with CF's and they
are just now leaping off the agar to the grain.

That’s disappointing. They germinated and grew out on agar well? My starting point was overly wet WBS trying to be ahead of the long wait, but combing that with an experiment pasteurizing in myco bags I lost 2/4 to bacteria pretty quickly.

At this point I’m on Dollar General WBS straight out of the bag without so much as a rinse. This jar is a clone and it came out a bit dry as I’m flying blind just added grain to a jar and covered with water then PC’d for 3 hours. It’s the only thing that I didn’t lose to bad seals from that run, but it slowly and surely has colonized. The condensation is just because it’s 65 degrees after being in an incubator it’s whole life.

I did one bag of pans also and wouldn’t you know the syringe kept clogging up or the syringe filter was clogged. I had to draw and empty it 3 times to get the syringe filled. Thus far your experience with Semperviva is about as successful as my attempts with pans!

This new sub recipe is a trip. I have 3 clone LC’s I used today but it’s going to be interesting on several fronts because I used 180/120/60ml. The substrate is strange in that it almost looks dry even though I lost no weight in the 4 hour PC run, and it really doesn’t matter how much LC I used texture wise. I may find that using that much unprepared grain requires a lot more water than I expected. All in all though I have high hopes and still have the plates, prints and swabs and another flush coming so for now I have genetics.

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#531 WalkSeeHear

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Posted 27 September 2020 - 01:42 PM

Started following. Just transfered to LC, 3 selections of semperviva from 2nd agar. Pretty excited :biggrin:. Love the work y'all are doing. Makes it a lot easier for me, much gratitude.


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#532 Jinroh

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Posted 27 September 2020 - 02:59 PM

I just colonized my fourth (and final attempt) to fruit Semperviva with the current genetics that I have. I am currently seeking a new sample.

I have no problem at all using what I have for grain TEK, I just suspect I have an issue with it fruiting.

 

This time, the grain colonized much longer to the point where color changes and metabolite buildup started. It will be interesting to see if there is any detectable difference how it colonizes with the more mature colonized grain.


Edited by Jinroh, 27 September 2020 - 03:30 PM.

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#533 Arch3type

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Posted 28 September 2020 - 12:57 PM

Just a little update. Wish I could have gave these guys better fruiting conditions but working with the best I have at the moment. Still grateful for the fruits I have and the opportunity to work with this species. Screenshot_20200928-135053_Gallery.jpg Screenshot_20200928-135313_Gallery.jpg 20200928_135358.jpg

Edited by Arch3type, 28 September 2020 - 01:00 PM.

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#534 clumsy

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Posted 28 September 2020 - 03:25 PM

shroom tray with white and green fungus.jpg I have a couple of trays using Don Shadow's suggested substrate with sieved sphagnum moss as the casing. I have been getting white and green fungus on the casing. In the beginning I was scooping out the invading fungus, but now it is not manageable. Advice?



#535 Jrotten

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Posted 28 September 2020 - 04:20 PM

Toss it and start again? Semperviva to the point of a colonized substrate is pretty fast. The other option would be to try and scrape it but that seems likely to be wasted effort also.

Speaking of fast colonizing of substrate, these are clones and they all have coir and WBS in their history but not the other ingredients. About 48 hours has passed

since inoculation. The most growth is the highest amount of LC, but still that’s a lot of visible growth fast! (I wish the Pan bag looked like that!)

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Edited by Jrotten, 28 September 2020 - 05:29 PM.

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#536 Jrotten

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Posted 29 September 2020 - 11:04 PM

Today the 180ml bag is almost completely surface colonized in under 72 hours. The 120 is a bit behind. The 60 is very much recovered and moving along. With the speed at which you can expand Semperviva via LC keeping a clean master of a quality culture could make subs with lightening speed. If I can figure out how to get these fruiting “quickly” without loss of potency and keep them fruiting I’m thinking you could do a sea of green sort of thing with the right clone.

I‘m torn between adding additional LC to make them all 180ml or just leave it alone. One the one hand it’s a better comparison of the clones, but on the other seeing how they progress might help me Judge the sub. I’m not sure if I should be concerned that the sub CAN hold more water. Maybe watching the three is the way to go. Cooking that much grain in a sub with that much capacity is tricky for me.

I’m open to math and experiment ideas to sort that out if anyone is interested.
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#537 coAsTal

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Posted 30 September 2020 - 10:59 AM

Here's an updated pic of my Semp tray--

SempTray9_30.jpg

 

and a close-up of the tiny but mature ones in the bottom left corner

SempClose9_30.jpg

 

Temps have dropped a lot in the area recently, dropping my upper interior temps by the floor (where this is stored) into the low 60's, so I have moved the tray to a higher section of my enclosure which will allow it to stay in the mid 70's during the daytime, which I'm hoping will help revitalize the growth.

 

My mycobag is also at floor level, so I'm sure that the low temps are significantly slowing colonization of the casing, but since I am moving next month I actually don't mind that much since I don't really wish to disturb a producing bag by moving-- so long as none of you tell me that low 60's are dangerous for the mycelium or anything.


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#538 Jrotten

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Posted 30 September 2020 - 12:15 PM

I’ve stored plates in the fridge for weeks and they came back fine in a day or two. My bag that has been fruiting all this time has had many days and nights hitting the 60’s with no long term harm. Just slows it down. Definitely prefers 78 to 68.

Direct inoculation is ridiculous on colonization. 3.5 days for the 180ml bag. The picture might not be doing it justice.

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Edited by Jrotten, 30 September 2020 - 12:29 PM.

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#539 coAsTal

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Posted 30 September 2020 - 12:31 PM

Well I suppose I should have checked my mycobag prior to the update above, since I really haven't had time to look at it in about a week with work and all-- but I'll be damned, it's worked its way to the surface of the casing after all :cool:

SempBag9_30.jpg


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#540 WalkSeeHear

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Posted 30 September 2020 - 02:24 PM

I've just started some LC jars a few days ago and seeing huge difference in growth rates. Has anyone noticed whether LQ growth rate translates to grain colonization rates, etc? The one strain that was obviously more robust on agar is also much faster in the jar which makes sense, very similar food source. But what will happen on grain or subs?


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