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Communal Psilocybe semperviva/hoogshagenii grow?


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#541 Jrotten

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Posted 30 September 2020 - 03:03 PM

All my Semperviva have been fast. I’ve never seen any of it move slow and all I’ve ever selected for before cloning was health. I have not seen anything slow that wasn’t bacterial beyond hope or too dry. They seem to be faster on slightly too wet than slightly too dry, but too wet cost me half of my first 4 bags. I switched my agar recipe to match my LC recipe and the clone samples were all very fast in LC and on this experimental sub I hit at least 70% colonization in under 4 days. 75-78F seems to be a sweet spot for speed, but I definitely haven’t held to anything real strict though I’ve tried.

I skipped grain spawn and instead followed a method similar to Asura and Blue Helix’s method of adding the grain to the sub and just inoculating the whole sterilized substrate together for my LC’s. It’s stupid fast. The only question is will it fruit well and how long will that take.

Originally I just did wedges to grain jars and they were also fast. A drier no-prep grain method has been slower, than my LC’s. I did 600ml LC from single large wedges versus a myco quart of no prep WBS. It will finish this week.

Edited by Jrotten, 30 September 2020 - 03:06 PM.

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#542 Jinroh

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Posted 30 September 2020 - 11:03 PM

I've just started some LC jars a few days ago and seeing huge difference in growth rates. Has anyone noticed whether LQ growth rate translates to grain colonization rates, etc? The one strain that was obviously more robust on agar is also much faster in the jar which makes sense, very similar food source. But what will happen on grain or subs?

Keep in mind that I have been using the same genetics over the past year and I have yet to get a sub to fruit.

However, my experience has been that Agar has been faster to colonize after inoculation no matter what form was used, but I noticed faster grain colonization with LC. To me, this makes sense since the LC goes everywhere and the agar just sits there in little lumps.

I noticed no difference in colonization once the grain is put to the sub no matter how the spawn grain was inoculated. Since I have primarily been interested in the Myceliated Grain TEK, fruiting has not been a priority except to make prints.


Edited by Jinroh, 30 September 2020 - 11:06 PM.


#543 Asura

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Posted 30 September 2020 - 11:24 PM

JR, my jars are at 70% and I noc'd them on 9/23. They are moving pretty quickly. I'll have to re-run

your genetics later...and not fuck up the grain prep next time. I think those previous jars were a little

on the dry side. Fuck! I just don't do grain prep on the regular any more.

 

Glad you like the "direct inoculation" method. I didn't even think to try it with these. Going by the

book until I get a feel for it.


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#544 Jinroh

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Posted 30 September 2020 - 11:36 PM

JR, my jars are at 70% and I noc'd them on 9/23. They are moving pretty quickly. I'll have to re-run

your genetics later...and not fuck up the grain prep next time. I think those previous jars were a little

on the dry side. Fuck! I just don't do grain prep on the regular any more.

 

Glad you like the "direct inoculation" method. I didn't even think to try it with these. Going by the

book until I get a feel for it.

I have never tried the "direct inoculation" method. It might be worth a try just for fun since I have tried everything else. Have you ever tried it with wood lovers?
 



#545 Asura

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 12:33 AM

I have very little experience with woodlovers. A couple of outdoor ps. cyans beds over the years.

I would think that the method work best for any fast moving culture, though. 


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#546 Jinroh

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 01:04 AM

I have very little experience with woodlovers. A couple of outdoor ps. cyans beds over the years.

I would think that the method work best for any fast moving culture, though. 

I might try it with Oysters. They move very fast as far as wood lovers go.



#547 Jrotten

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 11:14 AM

I like direct because I like bags because of a high spore load around here. It just saves me having to do two long PC runs and LC’s are fast to PC with agar.

This was 180ml LC of clone culture to about 1.5L of total sub. So a heavy inoculation. But it’s 95+ in 4.5 days. I’d call it 100 on visual inspection through the bag. The most important thing I think is getting a feel for the correct final moisture percentage of the sub AFTER inoculation. It’s definitely a learning curve I have yet to master.

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#548 YoshiTrainer

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 02:18 PM

I've had LC of Allenii and Ovoids, also made a dirty suba LC. :(

#549 Jinroh

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 05:33 PM

I like direct because I like bags because of a high spore load around here. It just saves me having to do two long PC runs and LC’s are fast to PC with agar.

This was 180ml LC of clone culture to about 1.5L of total sub. So a heavy inoculation. But it’s 95+ in 4.5 days. I’d call it 100 on visual inspection through the bag. The most important thing I think is getting a feel for the correct final moisture percentage of the sub AFTER inoculation. It’s definitely a learning curve I have yet to master.

I am sure getting the moisture level correct is more difficult than grain or sub individually. But there are some nice benefits to it as well.



#550 Jrotten

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Posted 01 October 2020 - 05:43 PM

I think the trick is consistency.  For instance when following Asura's recipe for pans (somewhat) I find that the size of the straw can change the water holding capacity or seems to.  In this case so much dry grain straight out of the bag certainly took quite a bit of water.  I didn't lose weight to the bags in the PC, but it went from very wet to dry enough that 180ml of LC didn't water log anything.  That's roughly 10-12% of my final weight so that's A LOT of room where what I thought was too wet with the cold mix turned out to be too dry with the cooked mix and I added what I thought was enough water IN ADDITION just for the grain.  

 

If the technique can be mastered I tend to think it's the most efficient way to work with established recipes, but once it's cooked in the bag it's cooked in the bag and you're kinda stuck.  In this case I actually added more LC to the 60ml because it was so far behind and I wanted a test.  The 120ml is my control.


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#551 whitethumb

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Posted 02 October 2020 - 07:34 PM

my semperviva sub is 100% colonized. going to let it consolidate then case and fruit. i'll snap pics before and after i case sometime next week
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#552 Jrotten

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Posted 02 October 2020 - 09:33 PM

I have too many experiments and too many variables going on. At this point I’m testing how hard it is to kill an otherwise healthy clone culture.

The first clone experiments with wedges straight to bags of sub were too dry after bad seals. They did colonize but they didn’t consolidate if that makes sense. I opened them in the hood today. I hydrated one and put to a shoe box tote and cased. It smelled perfect, but obviously this is similar to putting a suspect tub outdoors. The second I just cut the bag, hydrated, resealed. It smelled perfect also. Same thing, since the Semperviva seemed willing to grow I had nothing to lose.

On my new clones attempts I crumbled the 180ml LC bag in a shoebox tote without opening the bag. It is by all means 100% colonized in under 5 days, but I just feel like this sub wants to hold water in a weird way. The plan is to cut the bag off and fruit like a shoebox with a liner. I kneaded the other two bags to see what they do. I still have LC and plates in the fridge. So the cultures aren’t lost if this blows up, but it would have been cool to have 3 bags do awesome despite my screwing around!

I have too many variables in all these right now. I really think the right way to proceed is to make up maybe 4 subs, hydrate just by the numbers and check them out without the bother of inoculation, then proceed from there.

Edited by Jrotten, 02 October 2020 - 09:38 PM.


#553 Jinroh

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 04:32 AM

I have too many experiments and too many variables going on. At this point I’m testing how hard it is to kill an otherwise healthy clone culture.

The first clone experiments with wedges straight to bags of sub were too dry after bad seals. They did colonize but they didn’t consolidate if that makes sense. I opened them in the hood today. I hydrated one and put to a shoe box tote and cased. It smelled perfect, but obviously this is similar to putting a suspect tub outdoors. The second I just cut the bag, hydrated, resealed. It smelled perfect also. Same thing, since the Semperviva seemed willing to grow I had nothing to lose.

On my new clones attempts I crumbled the 180ml LC bag in a shoebox tote without opening the bag. It is by all means 100% colonized in under 5 days, but I just feel like this sub wants to hold water in a weird way. The plan is to cut the bag off and fruit like a shoebox with a liner. I kneaded the other two bags to see what they do. I still have LC and plates in the fridge. So the cultures aren’t lost if this blows up, but it would have been cool to have 3 bags do awesome despite my screwing around!

I have too many variables in all these right now. I really think the right way to proceed is to make up maybe 4 subs, hydrate just by the numbers and check them out without the bother of inoculation, then proceed from there.

Are all those bags from the "direct inoculation" method? I really want to try that. Has anyone started a thread about it or a TEK? I see Asura mentioned in relation to this topic.


Edited by Jinroh, 03 October 2020 - 04:36 AM.

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#554 Celestialexplorer1

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 08:44 AM

Asura has a great tek in his pan cultivation thread and I use that pretty much on a sliding scale. I know there are more good ones out there as well.

https://mycotopia.ne...lus-cyanescens/

But different materials absorb water differently so if your changing the ingredients then your also gonna have to change the amount of water added. Just something to keep in mind.

Day 3 of the LC and things are looking great. Only 12 hrs after transfer to the LC and the Myc had already fluffed up nicely. Something I always like to see. I’ll be OMW shortly.

Edited by Celestialexplorer1, 03 October 2020 - 08:48 AM.

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#555 Jrotten

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 09:57 AM

Blue Helix was the first I saw using it. Asura uses it in his pan tek. It works remarkably well with the caveat that you have to have the final moisture content of the sub worked out before hand and translate that to how much inoculant you use. As an example Asura wants his final moisture content to be 65% for pans so he prepares his sub at about 63% and the remaining 2% comes from the 120ml of LC he adds.

My problem with the current setup seems to be that either I was off on the holding capacity, the myc doesn’t like the sawdust, or both. In my case the saw dust is very fine and it does this thing where I get little balls of mycelium that then don’t seem to knit together. OR I have just monkey-fingered them into submission, I’m also being pretty impatient making declarations in under a week so that’s sort of on me. I’ve been pretty sick and kind of lost track of time so it may just be on me for screwing with them too much.

The method itself when worked out correctly is very fast and very reliable.

Edited by Jrotten, 03 October 2020 - 09:58 AM.

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#556 Jinroh

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 02:56 PM

Blue Helix was the first I saw using it. Asura uses it in his pan tek. It works remarkably well with the caveat that you have to have the final moisture content of the sub worked out before hand and translate that to how much inoculant you use. As an example Asura wants his final moisture content to be 65% for pans so he prepares his sub at about 63% and the remaining 2% comes from the 120ml of LC he adds.

My problem with the current setup seems to be that either I was off on the holding capacity, the myc doesn’t like the sawdust, or both. In my case the saw dust is very fine and it does this thing where I get little balls of mycelium that then don’t seem to knit together. OR I have just monkey-fingered them into submission, I’m also being pretty impatient making declarations in under a week so that’s sort of on me. I’ve been pretty sick and kind of lost track of time so it may just be on me for screwing with them too much.

The method itself when worked out correctly is very fast and very reliable.

Have you ever tried hardwood fuel pellets? That is what I use and I never have any problems like what you describe.
 



#557 Asura

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 06:20 PM

I'm a little too technical in my write up as far as direct inoculation goes. After doing this a million times

I can tell you that if your water is in the neighborhood of 63-65% you'll be fine with 60ml or 120ml.

 

I have actually rewritten a lot of that write up over on the other board, but I haven't made the changes

here.

 

There is some water loss during PC. It doesn't have to be spot on. I think most of the species we

are interested in like a sub with water content in this range.

 

Edit: not tried hardwood pellets, but have used straw pellets. Always had a hard time getting

proper moisture content with it.


Edited by Asura, 03 October 2020 - 06:21 PM.

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#558 Jinroh

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 06:51 PM

I'm a little too technical in my write up as far as direct inoculation goes. After doing this a million times

I can tell you that if your water is in the neighborhood of 63-65% you'll be fine with 60ml or 120ml.

 

I have actually rewritten a lot of that write up over on the other board, but I haven't made the changes

here.

 

There is some water loss during PC. It doesn't have to be spot on. I think most of the species we

are interested in like a sub with water content in this range.

 

Edit: not tried hardwood pellets, but have used straw pellets. Always had a hard time getting

proper moisture content with it.

I can only speak for pellets because that is all I have ever used. You are correct about getting the moisture content correct because different brand pellets absorb different amounts of water. I have learned to add the water slowly to the pellets in a separate container letting it sit for 20 minutes or so between adding water. You can make A LOT of sawdust with pellets. They expand back to sawdust at least 5 times the pellet size. And the high heat caused by the extrusion process kills most bacteria. Not they are perfectly sterile when you get them but they are much cleaner than sawdust from a mill. Once I get my moisture right, I add it to the rest of the sub. I never have problems doing it that way, although I am sure it is slower than dealing with raw sawdust. 
 


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#559 Jrotten

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Posted 03 October 2020 - 11:35 PM

This was my first experiment with wood of any kind just because I had some gyms on agar. I was impressed with how much water it held, thinking it might help with semperviva’s long fruiting time. The Semperviva is certainly colonizing the sub, but it’s doing it in a way I don’t think is going to work well for fruiting. Honestly I feel like I just made large spawn berries if that makes any sense. We’ll see how it goes. It’s definitely moved quickly.

Truth be told I have had some as yet undiagnosed medical issues come up over the last several weeks that are pretty debilitating some days. I’ve rushed through a lot of this lately and been a bit foggy so I should honestly probably just sit back and watch what happens with what I have going and not bother starting anything... which is exactly what I think I’ll do unless I decide to do some small jars with a proven recipe with the LC I have left. Idk.

#560 Jinroh

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Posted 04 October 2020 - 03:26 AM

This was my first experiment with wood of any kind just because I had some gyms on agar. I was impressed with how much water it held, thinking it might help with semperviva’s long fruiting time. The Semperviva is certainly colonizing the sub, but it’s doing it in a way I don’t think is going to work well for fruiting. Honestly I feel like I just made large spawn berries if that makes any sense. We’ll see how it goes. It’s definitely moved quickly.

Truth be told I have had some as yet undiagnosed medical issues come up over the last several weeks that are pretty debilitating some days. I’ve rushed through a lot of this lately and been a bit foggy so I should honestly probably just sit back and watch what happens with what I have going and not bother starting anything... which is exactly what I think I’ll do unless I decide to do some small jars with a proven recipe with the LC I have left. Idk.

Hard to concentrate and do things when you are sick. Might as well wait until you are feeling better.


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